How much money is this industry losing to pirated porn?

[Paul Markham]

I don't know and neither do you. You and I know how much we are losing but not the industry. Not talking about DVD and magazines who are losing.

The people who would know are CCBILL, Epoch, Verotel and probably Visa and MC.

Now if you read the boards you get the impression the business is imploding and it's because the surfer is not paying for porn. Pirated or what ever. But how true is this?

Is the money that was spent on paysites being spent on dating and cam sites. Is the money that was going to 10,000 people now going to 20,000. Or is the money that was going to 10,000 people now going to 1,000?

I don't expect Mark at CCBILL to come in here and tell us if his earnings on Internet porn is falling, steady or rising. But is it logical that companies who rely on customers spending money would sit back and watch the industry crumble because pirating meant people were not spending money at the same rate?

Think of it logically. And not from only your perspective. We know many of you are suffering, but is the revenue from "Adult Internet" suffering?

And if it is how long before Visa and MC start to think we are simply not worth the effort. Then would CCBILL, Epoch, Verotel and the other billers sit back and watch it happen?

All pirating, is supported by people spending money. If the money stops flowing the people who lose on the Net are the billers. The question I'm poising goes way beyond porn. Less records being bought means less credit cards being used in shops and online stores.

Or is the money being spent elsewhere and we are to stuck in the rut to change?

[After Shock Media]

Money is always spent elsewhere so that is sort of silly, isnt the average saving rate like barely above 0% now or is it technically at a negative since most live off of borrowed money. Of fucking course it is spent elsewhere.

As for has online spending gone down for porn sites as opposed to dating sites, cams, etc... Well more know than the billers, MC and Visa. There has been plenty of stats floating around due to data mining from such things as say stats programs.

Though it is funny to try to see you separate the industry areas into different clumps to attempt to achieve the point of your piracy argument. Face it DVD is linked to online porn and well magazines are indeed in a different field as they themselves are primarily ad driven.

Piracy is taking a bite out of the industry, so far it has just been nibbles yet with more and more press reporting on the assorted tubes and the like more surfers are shown and trained to not pay for porn in the future. They do not link cause and effect. Oddly you do not even need to look at your own stats to see this, just talk to some average people on the street and ask them about Internet porn. Most will now say they have no need to pay as everything they need is free. Funny enough though people are learning they do not need dating either and as we all know penis pills are just snake oil, you can only fool a sucker a few times max.

Now back to your ending remark. Yup they are now not spending it on my shit but instead are putting an extra 1/4 tank of gas in their vehicle. Again this boils back down to just talking to the public, most who already know adult dating is a fucking scam/joke and its all free on myspace, facebook, and craigslist if your a guy, and that the cam girls are all foreigners who just suck your cash out of you before doing a damn thing.

[Jens Van Assterdam]

%1584,839

[Paul Markham]

Now think of it in far broader terms. If the record industry is losing money, what pressure are they bring to Visa and MC to stop them supporting pirating?

Pirates exist because of the nature of people to want it for free. In the past we have all given a friend a record or tape to copy. However on the Internet they can communicate because some sites turn over millions. Sites supported by advertisers and advertisers taking money with credit cards.

Remove the ability of a company to process a credit card because they supported, encouraged or even are involved in piracy and the sites disappear. Well mostly.

Even whiter than white and Christian Paypal process for pirates. OK indirectly but shows how they think. Is there more money for them in processing for pirates than processing for the legit business?

OK I don't think in a straight line and think of cause and effect beyond my box. Just very interesting isn't it.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

Money is always spent elsewhere so that is sort of silly, isnt the average saving rate like barely above 0% now or is it technically at a negative since most live off of borrowed money. Of fucking course it is spent elsewhere.

As for has online spending gone down for porn sites as opposed to dating sites, cams, etc... Well more know than the billers, MC and Visa. There has been plenty of stats floating around due to data mining from such things as say stats programs.

Though it is funny to try to see you separate the industry areas into different clumps to attempt to achieve the point of your piracy argument. Face it DVD is linked to online porn and well magazines are indeed in a different field as they themselves are primarily ad driven.

Piracy is taking a bite out of the industry, so far it has just been nibbles yet with more and more press reporting on the assorted tubes and the like more surfers are shown and trained to not pay for porn in the future. They do not link cause and effect. Oddly you do not even need to look at your own stats to see this, just talk to some average people on the street and ask them about Internet porn. Most will now say they have no need to pay as everything they need is free. Funny enough though people are learning they do not need dating either and as we all know penis pills are just snake oil, you can only fool a sucker a few times max.

Now back to your ending remark. Yup they are now not spending it on my shit but instead are putting an extra 1/4 tank of gas in their vehicle. Again this boils back down to just talking to the public, most who already know adult dating is a fucking scam/joke and its all free on myspace, facebook, and craigslist if your a guy, and that the cam girls are all foreigners who just suck your cash out of you before doing a damn thing.

It's obvious money being saved in one place is spent in another. But money not spent on the Internet and especially the Adult Internet, spent on gas is money not going through CCBILL and co.

You may be right about dating and cam sites imploding. Like Tube sites won't be able to afford the BW bills. I will believe it when I see it.

I have no opinion on this, just posing a question.

[CarlosTheGaucho]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

Money is always spent elsewhere so that is sort of silly, isnt the average saving rate like barely above 0% now or is it technically at a negative since most live off of borrowed money. Of fucking course it is spent elsewhere.

As for has online spending gone down for porn sites as opposed to dating sites, cams, etc... Well more know than the billers, MC and Visa. There has been plenty of stats floating around due to data mining from such things as say stats programs.

Though it is funny to try to see you separate the industry areas into different clumps to attempt to achieve the point of your piracy argument. Face it DVD is linked to online porn and well magazines are indeed in a different field as they themselves are primarily ad driven.

Piracy is taking a bite out of the industry, so far it has just been nibbles yet with more and more press reporting on the assorted tubes and the like more surfers are shown and trained to not pay for porn in the future. They do not link cause and effect. Oddly you do not even need to look at your own stats to see this, just talk to some average people on the street and ask them about Internet porn. Most will now say they have no need to pay as everything they need is free. Funny enough though people are learning they do not need dating either and as we all know penis pills are just snake oil, you can only fool a sucker a few times max.

Now back to your ending remark. Yup they are now not spending it on my shit but instead are putting an extra 1/4 tank of gas in their vehicle. Again this boils back down to just talking to the public, most who already know adult dating is a fucking scam/joke and its all free on myspace, facebook, and craigslist if your a guy, and that the cam girls are all foreigners who just suck your cash out of you before doing a damn thing.

A very much spot on post,

The main and steady motivation of our potential customers coming over to your site is- well it's SEX.

That's the only thing and only desire that unifies them in their effort and that unifies just about any single male on this planet, no matter if he is gay or straight.

Once the sex is given away for free, as our digital age evolves this is entirely possible, you are automatically ignoring the main motivation of every single surfer and you are dumping the chance to exploit the steady demand this business always had.

The hypothetical question I would ask is:

1) How many of our potential customers will never pay again? and from that:

2) How many have never paid?

3) How many paid in the past and will never pay again?

[MasterBlow]

there's no money in porn

[GonZo]

Free Paul Markham!!!!

[Iron Fist]

Originally Posted by MasterBlow

there's no money in porn

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho

A very much spot on post,

The main and steady motivation of our potential customers coming over to your site is- well it's SEX.

That's the only thing and only desire that unifies them in their effort and that unifies just about any single male on this planet, no matter if he is gay or straight.

Once the sex is given away for free, as our digital age evolves this is entirely possible, you are automatically ignoring the main motivation of every single surfer and you are dumping the chance to exploit the steady demand this business always had.

The hypothetical question I would ask is:

1) How many of our potential customers will never pay again? and from that:

2) How many have never paid?

3) How many paid in the past and will never pay again?

Agreed, but my point is if it's true that the Adult Internet is losing money like some are saying then the people who would be really fighting against it would be the billers. If however the money is moving away from some to others, not people selling gas, the billers don't care. And can continue to back those moving the business in a new direction.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by GonZo

Free Paul Markham!!!!

No I do not come free. LOL

[ADL Colin]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

isnt the average saving rate like barely above 0% now

The way that is calculated is awful. They just use income - expenses - taxes as "savings" discounting any sort of capital appreciation. So when people were doing great in the markets in the 90s or housing in the late 90 and early 00s they were still being shown as having close to zero "savings". Opposite is true in times like this when there is capital depreciation for many people. Either way the stat seems to be pretty useless as is.