Voting "Do-Over" How fucking embarrassing !

[L-Pink]

If I was reading about the call for "do-over voting" I would expect some Third World shit-hole or a country experiencing the democracy experience for the first time.

Not the United States of America. Fucking pitiful. This is embarrassing ..... as was the last Presidential fiasco in Florida.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080306/...imary_scramble




.

[IllTestYourGirls]

we need a lot of states with a "do-over" there has been so much fraud its mind boggling. This election has been a huge sham. We as Americans can do better than this

[kane]

Florida always seems like it finds a way to fuck things up. I think a do-over is the only fair way to do things there though.

[AdPatron]

Oh well, you can't win them all.

[Matt 26z]

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

we need a lot of states with a "do-over" there has been so much fraud its mind boggling. This election has been a huge sham.

What are some examples of fraud?

[L-Pink]

Do-over means mass incompetence, who says it's right the second time if the first was so fucked up?

[kane]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Do-over means mass incompetence, who says it's right the second time if the first was so fucked up?

Well, in this case Florida had issues the first time around. They were told by the DNC that if they moved their primary date up they would lose all of their delegates. They did it anyway and the cadidates were told not to campaign there. Hillary did a little, Obama not at all. The election went, Hillary won (no surprise, she had no competition really) and the delegates don't count. Now Hillary wants those delegates but Obama is saying that isn't fair since he was barred from even campaigning in Florida. Since it is so close Florida could have a big impact so now they are thinking of holding the election again only this time with both candidates there and this time the delegates actually count.

[The Dawg]

Meanwhile, the taxpayers of FL will foot the bill.

[IllTestYourGirls]

Bloomberg thinks there was fraud too..

http://www.nypost.com/seven/02192008...aud__98367.htm

Countless others, like election officials leaving people off the ballot, telling voters a candidate had dropped out as well. Voting machines in New Hampshire getting the count wrong by 15 to 25%. Washington state throwing out 20 to 25% of the mail in votes. Little things like that.

Just google it you will find it on major news outlets.

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

What are some examples of fraud?

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by kane

Well, in this case Florida had issues the first time around. They were told by the DNC that if they moved their primary date up they would lose all of their delegates. They did it anyway and the cadidates were told not to campaign there. Hillary did a little, Obama not at all. The election went, Hillary won (no surprise, she had no competition really) and the delegates don't count. Now Hillary wants those delegates but Obama is saying that isn't fair since he was barred from even campaigning in Florida. Since it is so close Florida could have a big impact so now they are thinking of holding the election again only this time with both candidates there and this time the delegates actually count.

Reread your post and substitute "Zimbabwe" for Florida and see how it sounds no matter what the reason.

[I am chauncy]

Originally Posted by kane

Well, in this case Florida had issues the first time around. They were told by the DNC that if they moved their primary date up they would lose all of their delegates. They did it anyway and the cadidates were told not to campaign there. Hillary did a little, Obama not at all. The election went, Hillary won (no surprise, she had no competition really) and the delegates don't count. Now Hillary wants those delegates but Obama is saying that isn't fair since he was barred from even campaigning in Florida. Since it is so close Florida could have a big impact so now they are thinking of holding the election again only this time with both candidates there and this time the delegates actually count.

pretty much the same thing happened here in Michigan. I mean really its all because New Hampshire was crying about not being the first primary of the election because it will hurts their tourism. I don't know about florida but Michigan did it because well this is about the time we usually have our primary and well its fucking cold here and there is 8 to 10 inches of snow on the ground with 5 to 10 more coming which is usually for us it sucks here at the end of feb beginning of march so the state thought for the elderly and handicapped and well everybody it would be better to do it when the weather wouldn't hinder people from going out to vote pretty smart and reasonable if you ask me. So who is should be blamed? Michigan and Florida or New Hampshire and DNC for being more worried about tourism and money then who is running our country?

[kane]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Reread your post and substitute "Zimbabwe" for Florida and see how it sounds no matter what the reason.

I understand it sounds fucked up, but I don't think there is much in the way of Fraud going on in Florida. Maybe you could say Hillary going there to campaign eventhough she was told not to could be fraud. The real trouble is that the people of Florida got fucked. A few people in a political party wanted to make a power play, didn't heed a warning and got the state banned from getting any delegates. This isn't the people of Florida's fault and they should get a chance to hold an election where their votes actually count.

What should have happened is that they shouldn't have been allowed to move the date period then none of this would have happened.

[notoldschool]

Its obvious that the powers that be will not let Obama have a chance. They change the rules so they get who they want in power. I live in Florida and dont think they should break the rules just because Hillary is losing.

[kane]

Originally Posted by I am chauncy

pretty much the same thing happened here in Michigan. I mean really its all because New Hampshire was crying about not being the first primary of the election because it will hurts their tourism. I don't know about florida but Michigan did it because well this is about the time we usually have our primary and well its fucking cold here and there is 8 to 10 inches of snow on the ground with 5 to 10 more coming which is usually for us it sucks here at the end of feb beginning of march so the state thought for the elderly and handicapped and well everybody it would be better to do it when the weather wouldn't hinder people from going out to vote pretty smart and reasonable if you ask me. So who is should be blamed? Michigan and Florida or New Hampshire and DNC for being more worried about tourism and money then who is running our country?

yeah it is a fucked up situation. I have to wonder how much tourism can being the first state in the primary election really draw. I would never go somewhere for that reason.

[I am chauncy]

Originally Posted by kane

yeah it is a fucked up situation. I have to wonder how much tourism can being the first state in the primary election really draw. I would never go somewhere for that reason.

old people and school trips

[IllTestYourGirls]

Obama is the part of the powers to be. This drama is staged to keep the media talking about Obama and Clinton so when they team up the have momentum on their sides.

Originally Posted by notoldschool

Its obvious that the powers that be will not let Obama have a chance. They change the rules so they get who they want in power. I live in Florida and dont think they should break the rules just because Hillary is losing.

[hungry hungry hippy]

Originally Posted by kane

I understand it sounds fucked up, but I don't think there is much in the way of Fraud going on in Florida. Maybe you could say Hillary going there to campaign eventhough she was told not to could be fraud. The real trouble is that the people of Florida got fucked. A few people in a political party wanted to make a power play, didn't heed a warning and got the state banned from getting any delegates. This isn't the people of Florida's fault and they should get a chance to hold an election where their votes actually count.

What should have happened is that they shouldn't have been allowed to move the date period then none of this would have happened.

maybe they will not do this next time then. they broke the rules, they need to live with the consequences. the rules cannot be broken, especially now. this didn't seem to be an issue until clinton fell behind.. and now everyone is screaming for them to be seated. it's bullshit and they should not be seated. you cannot change the rules in the middle of the fucking thing...

though shit for FL and MI. next time they should tell the party to leave them alone, and not break the rules.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by kane

Well, in this case Florida had issues the first time around. They were told by the DNC that if they moved their primary date up they would lose all of their delegates. They did it anyway

it was the Florida REPUBLCIAN legislator that voted to move the primary up and the REPUBLICAN governor that signed the bill. So democrats should be punished for this?

florida is bigger and more diverse than NH or Iowa so fuck them. Who are they to dictate florida can't move their primary up? Show me in the constitution where it says Iowa and NH come first. Look at how many candidates drop out after those 2 contest even though they are less than 0.2% of the total vote.

and the cadidates were told not to campaign there. Hillary did a little, Obama not at all. The election went, Hillary won (no surprise, she had no competition really) and the delegates don't count. Now Hillary wants those delegates but Obama is saying that isn't fair since he was barred from even campaigning in Florida.

NO candidates campaigned in Florida. ALL candidates were on the ballot. No reason why the original result shoudn't stand. A re-vote obviously favors Obama since he would get more votes this time with Edwards not being on the ballot, plus the momentum he's gotten since Super Tuesday.

Michigan is different since not all the candidates were on the ballot though that is their own fault for removing themsleves. I support a do over in Michigan though. Once again this helps Obama since Hillary is not likely to get the 65% vote she got last time.

Since it is so close Florida could have a big impact so now they are thinking of holding the election again only this time with both candidates there and this time the delegates actually count.

Really won't have an impact. Fla and Mich has a total 366 deleagtes. That would increase the total needed for the nomination by 188. Since dems allocate delegates proportionally Hillary and Obama will most likely split the vote thus each will end up with an extra 188. So how this helps is beyond me.

Only helps Hillary if she wins both states in the fact she can say she won the 8 largest states( if she wins Penn ) except Illinois which is Obama's home state. Doesn't help either get a majority of delegates with just pledged delgates unless Obama wins both states 80-20 or something like that.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by hungry hungry hippy

maybe they will not do this next time then. they broke the rules, they need to live with the consequences. the rules cannot be broken, especially now. this didn't seem to be an issue until clinton fell behind.. and now everyone is screaming for them to be seated. it's bullshit and they should not be seated. you cannot change the rules in the middle of the fucking thing...

though shit for FL and MI. next time they should tell the party to leave them alone, and not break the rules.

I repeat this for the retards

it was the Florida REPUBLCIAN legislator that voted to move the primary up and the REPUBLICAN governor that signed the bill.

[Tom_PM]

Well, Hillary did a fundraiser in Florida that was pre-scheduled and pre-approved, she did not campaign there. This was poured over when it happened, and even though people tried to spin it as "campaigning", it was not denounced as such in any real sense other than anti-clinton spin.

Neither here nor there though, as this whole issue should have pissed off Florida and Michigan democrats when the DNC first declared them invisible in the first place! Problem is, nobody expected there to be a close race.

I'm so tired of the press annointing nominees it's not even funny. Obama should quit, Clinton should quit, Ron Paul should quit, Huckabee should quit, Romney should quit. Fuck them! It's a RACE to win votes, leave it the hell alone!

Now yesterday, several networks ran banners saying "Superdelegates vs popular vote?" and shit like that. Well let me say this, the superdelegate process is part of the process! So stop whining about it and trying to make it a story now. Some people say that superdelegates should vote the same way that the popular vote went down in their state/county/district. What? Then why were superdelegates invented? For only those rare cases of an exact tie? No. They were invented to exercise *their own* judgment.

I even saw some commentor last night on CNN saying that if the superdelegates in a area that Obama won the peoples vote, voted against Obama, that african americans would revolt! What the fuck? That superdelegate was INVENTED and picked for the very fact that their judgment was considered good enough to do the job. Frankly, it has zero to do with who is popular, who the people voted for, what race or gender they are, or if they're fat or dwarf.

How dare these assholes try to tell people how to vote, who to vote for, who should quit, what is an "attack", what is "negative".. For christs sake, some morons think that Clintons stupid 3am phone ad is a NEGATIVE attack ad! How so? It's an ad where Clinton tries to say that she is the best to be answering that phone. OOoooooooooooo what a horrible negative attack ad.. how nasty is she, what a bitch. God these pundits make me crazy.

The democratic nomination process is what it is. If Michigan and Florida governments want to go ahead and hold new primaries and/or caucuses, GOOD FOR THEM because the issue is the millions of regular, real people who's votes have been cast aside because their states GOVERNMENTS fucked up! So this is maybe the one time in our lives when a government fucks up, a government does a do-over, and the people get the benefit! Unreal that there would be opposition to it.

Ahh that felt pretty good

[tony286]

Once I read a quote from when russia was the soviet union. The man said the only difference between the soviet union and USA is we know we arent free.
With all the voting shit makes you think.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

Now yesterday, several networks ran banners saying "Superdelegates vs popular vote?" and shit like that. Well let me say this, the superdelegate process is part of the process! So stop whining about it and trying to make it a story now.

Yep people act like this is new. No one complained about Super Delegtes before. Not in 2004, 2000, 1996, 1992, 1988 or 1984. Hmmmm. And for the Obama lovers, he's not getting a majority of delegates without super delegates either.

[Peaches]

The Democratic Superdelegates deciding a nominee has never been tested. From my understanding it was put into place in 1982 as a result of the 1980's convention - the 3rd time the convention was split. It will be very interesting to see how it plays out and if it is still around during the next presidential election.

[JFK]

Originally Posted by The Dawg

Meanwhile, the taxpayers of FL will foot the bill.

yeah well, they do have deep pockets dont they ?

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by JFK

yeah well, they do have deep pockets dont they ?

he doesn't realize florida doesn't have a state income tax and actualy tourists pay for most things.

[notoldschool]

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

Well, Hillary did a fundraiser in Florida that was pre-scheduled and pre-approved, she did not campaign there. This was poured over when it happened, and even though people tried to spin it as "campaigning", it was not denounced as such in any real sense other than anti-clinton spin.

Neither here nor there though, as this whole issue should have pissed off Florida and Michigan democrats when the DNC first declared them invisible in the first place! Problem is, nobody expected there to be a close race.

I'm so tired of the press annointing nominees it's not even funny. Obama should quit, Clinton should quit, Ron Paul should quit, Huckabee should quit, Romney should quit. Fuck them! It's a RACE to win votes, leave it the hell alone!

Now yesterday, several networks ran banners saying "Superdelegates vs popular vote?" and shit like that. Well let me say this, the superdelegate process is part of the process! So stop whining about it and trying to make it a story now. Some people say that superdelegates should vote the same way that the popular vote went down in their state/county/district. What? Then why were superdelegates invented? For only those rare cases of an exact tie? No. They were invented to exercise *their own* judgment.

I even saw some commentor last night on CNN saying that if the superdelegates in a area that Obama won the peoples vote, voted against Obama, that african americans would revolt! What the fuck? That superdelegate was INVENTED and picked for the very fact that their judgment was considered good enough to do the job. Frankly, it has zero to do with who is popular, who the people voted for, what race or gender they are, or if they're fat or dwarf.

How dare these assholes try to tell people how to vote, who to vote for, who should quit, what is an "attack", what is "negative".. For christs sake, some morons think that Clintons stupid 3am phone ad is a NEGATIVE attack ad! How so? It's an ad where Clinton tries to say that she is the best to be answering that phone. OOoooooooooooo what a horrible negative attack ad.. how nasty is she, what a bitch. God these pundits make me crazy.

The democratic nomination process is what it is. If Michigan and Florida governments want to go ahead and hold new primaries and/or caucuses, GOOD FOR THEM because the issue is the millions of regular, real people who's votes have been cast aside because their states GOVERNMENTS fucked up! So this is maybe the one time in our lives when a government fucks up, a government does a do-over, and the people get the benefit! Unreal that there would be opposition to it.

Ahh that felt pretty good

Yeah keep telling yourself that. Florida and Michigan would not be a topic if Hillary hadnt fallen very far behind. Its obvious from what the networks are reporting that Hillary is the one they will have win. Shes an easy target for the Republicans. Whats even more funny is how Clinton is 10 percentage points higher on Fox polls than all other networks. Guess who they want to win? Charlie Crist is sure pushing hard for a democratic revote. Isnt he a Republican? LOL you are fucking blind.

[kane]

Originally Posted by GatorB

it was the Florida REPUBLCIAN legislator that voted to move the primary up and the REPUBLICAN governor that signed the bill. So democrats should be punished for this?

I agree fully on this the dems shouldn't have to pay if there is a re-do and they should have been able to still hold their primary at a later date if they wanted to.

Originally Posted by GatorB

NO candidates campaigned in Florida. ALL candidates were on the ballot. No reason why the original result shoudn't stand. A re-vote obviously favors Obama since he would get more votes this time with Edwards not being on the ballot, plus the momentum he's gotten since Super Tuesday.

Not 100% true. Hillary went to Florida, was on TV in Florida and made appearences there. The deal said she could do no public campaigning, so she set up press conferences and got on TV telling people she was happy to be there and was working hard to make sure that their votes were heard. She got all the airtime while the other candidates never set foot in the state. She didn't hold a public rally or run commercials, but she did go there and bend the rules as much as possible to get her face on TV and in the papers. In my book that is campaigning.

Originally Posted by GatorB

Really won't have an impact. Fla and Mich has a total 366 deleagtes. That would increase the total needed for the nomination by 188. Since dems allocate delegates proportionally Hillary and Obama will most likely split the vote thus each will end up with an extra 188. So how this helps is beyond me.

Only helps Hillary if she wins both states in the fact she can say she won the 8 largest states( if she wins Penn ) except Illinois which is Obama's home state. Doesn't help either get a majority of delegates with just pledged delgates unless Obama wins both states 80-20 or something like that

In the end you are right. In a re-do the vote in these states will most likely be very close so both candidates would end up splitting the delegates and not getting any closer to the nomination.

I think when all this originally happened there wasn't a huge fuss made because, at that time, Hillary was stomping everyone in the polls and most democrats figured she would win easily so there wouldn't be much drama. Of course the exact opposite has happened.

[spanky part 2]

they should just split the delegates down the middle and seat them. It solves the problem and no one gets the advantage.

I'd love to see Hillary dance around why that wouldn't work. You know because she just cares about the voters soooooo much.