Oh, the other thing is most hollywood movies are hacked well before they make it online with drm. Almost all movies are released, online, well before they ever touch a drm machine.

That site sucks as Robbie already mentioned, video quality is terrible and SSSLLLOOOOWWWW. Some exclusive stuff in the VIP area maybe but the rest is just content from DVD companies. I did checkout the .de domain and the design does look much better, a few reality sites which look exclusive. I didn't get to naivgate much since my German is probably like your Chinese. Anyway looking at the site I think sexmoney is much bigger then Fundorado but what do I know.:)

Ok, so how would this work: I have a DRM on my members area videos...a member downloads a video. Can he now watch it on his hard drive forever? Do I get charged everytime he watches it? IF he tries to upload it to a tube site what exactly happens? OR, if he turns it into a torrent and starts sharing it on torrent sites what happens? Sorry to be so ignorant...I just think that if you would explain exactly how this works then maybe we could all take a good look at it. The Windows DRM page gives me a headache. LOL

I have floated this a few times, but Ill do it again.

Sooner or later someone big in the industry will put up the cash. Ive said this before. Someone that has an upsell would be VERY VERY smart to develop new drm techniques that surfers will be able to adapt to easier. The person doing that should offer this tool FREE to any paysite willing to have an ad running in their members area for the non compete upsell.

Cant make this tool cost much, or it should be free. Make it simple so any members area can easily deploy it. Instead of wasting time trying to herd cats and trying to stop what is already released in the wild, work on keeping anything new secure. The ONLY way to stop piracy is to adopt industry wide new secure ways of content distribution.

I dont care how many piracy groups you form or whatever. You wont stop it that way. Like trying to catch fleas with a pair of chopsticks.

Industry wide new secure content distribution methods.

Lets say a company with the initals AFF that has shit loads of money. All the face they may of lost could be regained awfully fast for getting something like that developed. Giving it away free for just a members area upsell.

well, ten thousands of germans :winkwink:

they even pay up to 50 Euro per signup: www.cashdorado.com

if you have german traffic...

You can do all of that, none of it, or just some of it.

If you offer the video with no expire, it's no different than just allowing a download to happen. OTHER THAN, 'depending' on how you have it setup, you can shut the video off permanently.

You could.. offer a 30 day download that after 30 days, fires up and asks for a cc to use the video or more or even rejoin the entire site.

Why should a member own that content forever? If I goto a video rental place I get charged for every day I have it past the return date. Yes we do the same thing currently on our sites, but I think the whole model is flawed. It only ended up that way because we didnt have the technology when paysites started to limit the members usage. Who wants to give away their whole members area for 27.95 or for a 4.00 trial?

So DRM basically just time expires and makes the vid unwatchable? I was thinking of the way DVD's won't allow you to make copies or CD's won't allow you to make copies.
I think if I joined a site. And really liked one of the vids and then it "died" on me a few weeks after I had downloaded it to my drive....I would be pissed.
I think what is needed is a "magic software" that would allow members to download a vid, but somehow stop them from ripping it or burning it or re-uploading it in any way.
That way a member could enjoy the vids forever on his own machine, but not share them.
I guess that would be the magic pill that everyone would love to have.

Their is no cheap solution.. you can't create a cheap solution. The videos must be re-encoded, stored, ect on some serious machines. A few people offer this service at a rip off price.

I don't think we need to create something new, just an honest company that is willing to spend the money and work with our industry to drm our movies. I would pay, per movie, if the price was cheap enough. I wouldn't pay for the DRM machines on my own, so if the price was right, I would use it.


The piracy group is made of dvd production companies that can't figure out why/how to make real money online. They are the same people that blame online for falling dvd sales but waited 10 years to get online. Not the smartest group of minds.

That's a good point.

The other idea Ive thought of is an overlay that somehow embeds the user name on your site, and their ip into the video, or somehow creates a watermark righ on the video itself for every download. Video gets downloaded and ends up on any tube site or torrent without permission that user gets their account canceled and then maybe a way to blackball that member from signing up, or else allow signups but have restrictions. These are all things that can be done, but require it to be done industry wide, and to have a large financial backer to get them implemented. It isnt easy to close pandoras box... :Oh crap
Oh and 50 solutions that no one will adapt to cause they are scared to change...

Its chargeback hell.
And the only way to avoid this is to make it very clear that the member area is drm and what drm does before the surfer signs up and well you dont have to be an Einstein to realize that will greatly decrease your signups.

I think there are other solutions to be had. :2 cents:

Why do you say things that you have no data or knowledge on, to back up what you are saying? Not to be a dick, but you have no clue what you are talking about.

If you don't tell them the videos are downloadable, you don't have to tell them they are DRM protected. Once they get inside you 'could' offer downloadable videos as a bonus feature, that expires. Members won't cb because of that.

Just like they won't CB if you stop doing updates and your tours say you update.

99% of cb's are fraud transactions that never log in. The other 1% forgot they had the membership.

the video streaming just sucks for international - and yes, all the reality stuff is exclusive

I think you were right the first time.

No amount of explaining to users is going to free you from the burden from chargebacks in that scenario.

Yes you are right man, once again thats why all the big companies dropped them after they found out the lost sales of that drm crap. And that had nothing to do with shitty technology and had everything to do with surfers wanting to own the video instead of leasing it.
If its such a miracle then why doesnt every company have this now or better yet why did they all drop it? How much clearer do you want it?

What you mean the first time? Point me out threads where im not right? Im always right.

I never really felt much threatened by p2p, and here is my view on that:

I will admit - on a college I had a 8mbps connection and was downloading like crazy, I did download a lots of porn too (well studying cybernetics is not like hot chicks all around the place waiting to suck a hard unsatisfied cock).

But it took me more than 2 years to download a decent collection of porn (say 140 good movies) because you also deal with lots of shit that's badly marked, renamed and you have a hard time to find you cup of tea, everything takes ages etc.

So the time / accesibility factor is what speaks against p2p in my opinion.

p2p are NO WAY that much of a threat to me than TUBE sites, where you can view way more, thousands of movies and scenes and jerk off immediately..

$$$ my friend, the $$$.. I won't go to DRM because I can't afford it. I would rather spend the $5-$20k on something I can know/track that will earn me $100k. It 'could' cost up to $500k, depending on your needs.

Cheap solution it isn't - but it works like a freakin champ. The flash drm solution is much cheaper, but it still takes a power machine to run that crap.

That's the "real" problem with it. Yeah, back in the day it sucked.. But today, its the money and programs really don't make as much as people think.

I actually agree with Franck on this one, for whatever that's worth. In my experience, the reasons for charging back are more variant.

You still didnt explain why all the companies who already spent 1000's on it, 10's of 1000's all dropped it after a while...

Nevermind, we all know the answer.

You guys have no clue how big Fundorado is, and there is noone else more entitled to talk about this here than Madalton.

Tell me, how many programs can afford to pay 44 - 50 EUR per sign up?

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Oh boy... :1orglaugh

I'd oblige you, but there are only 24 hours in the day, man. :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

At any rate... not "for the first time"... but "the first time"... when you said it'd be chargeback hell. I don't think your plan to avoid it would avoid all that much. People don't read much... and what they read, they often soon forget.

This is simple.. Just look at your cb's you have now. CB's don't happen because of technical errors. Besides real fraud, most CB's never log in and the few that do only did it once and burned no bw.

The majority of refunds happen due to login issues and/or video play issues (streaming or download). More technical issues.

The answer is simple, the solution really sucked back then. 4, 5, 8 years, ever how long it has been is a great deal of time for a product to improve.

And not all companies went drm, not even 5% - but 90% complained like they did.

Are we talking in fucking circles here or what?
Once again it has nothing to do with improving anything...surfers dont wont to LEASE movies, no matter how fucking nice the technology is. The fact that they dropped it was because of that and nothing else.

Please dont let me repeat this again because i mentioned this 3 times now.

But you are wrong.. surfers don't have to lease a movie, actually surfers wouldn't know the difference. They could own it forever, if the site owner wanted that, and the movie could be shut down remotely if uploaded to tubes/torrent.

You know what an amazing thing about drm is.. check this

You can burn one movie (the full movie), the drm software will offer it in clips, with thumbnails to select from, you can jump to scenes, with little to no buffer time.

You could offer open streaming movies for all logged in members, but add in a level of "password protection" to stop pw leaks from viewing movies.

You could charge an extra $1 or say $10 for perm download movies (dvds). You could charge $5 for a 180 day download and move past the cb/refund periods.

You can shut movies off from a remote location, and offer an upsell.

You could get all canceled members that have downloaded to have a ad/promo/upsell in the video, that streaming and/or active members don't get.

Nothing needs to be downloaded/upgraded to make it work, normally at least.

You can stop/allow multi streams of the same or different videos from one user or limit the over all mbps they can get.

If you need a blowjob, or want to fuck a hooker, drm won't protect you.

Apple iTunes embeds your user data in the songs you download so they can be tracked if redistributed.

So basically the original Subject of this entire thread is not correct. There is no "easy solution" Either stuff doesn't work. OR it's too expensive. Neither is an "easy" or even practical solution for a members based paysite. :(
Of course we all knew that already or else everyone would be doing it. The DRM thing sounds great but it's just too expensive. The streaming vids wouldn't stop a 12 year old kid. And I can see where it might slow down a script that is ripping your members area out. But so far my main culprits have been guys from different big tit and interracial forums who actually buy memberships, download every video one-by-one and then upload them so their buddies can all pat them on the back. And of course once ONE guy does that....then all the other tube sites and torrent sites end up getting that vid from that one guys original download...since it's up on a tube or torrent site at that point and then everybody steals it and shares it.
So in my humble opinion there is NO "easy" solution YET. But the guy who comes up with a way for members to download a vid and be unable to share it with others....and does it at a practical and cheap cost. That guy is gonna be one wealthy motherfucker. :)

DRMnetworks.com is not outrageously expensive. It doesn't stop video theft, just makes it harder for any member to upload it for the props from his internet buds. Macs can't play WM DRM'd clips so that knocks out some surfers too.

I haven't used it yet, but netflix has a download movie option, and I bet you can't just share that anywhere you want. Perhaps you can, but I bet not. But Robbie you are right, there isn't a real easy answer.

Netflix is a streaming solution. Checks connection speed then buffers accordingly. There are a LOT of ways this can be done. Just have to get over the scared to change thing. :2 cents:

Yeah, but MakingItPay just said they have a DOWNLOAD OPTION. Sounds like a completely different thing.
And the streaming solution just will NOT work...hell, right now I'm going through the second week of a HUGE DDOS attack that the guy keeps adapting to the changes we make. I can ony imagine the pure disaster that would be taking place if all my members area was some sort of a streaming thing. I've delayed putting up my completed VOD section of my content just because of the nightmare of the DDOS.
That is just one of many real life complications that aren't being taken into account (and of course the aforementioned free software that CAN download streaming vids...making it useless)

I may have said it wrong. It is watch movies instantly on your PC, so it could very well be and most likely is a streaming solution.

Streaming CAN be done. www.adultrental.com does it no problem, www.videobox.com does it. (speedwise at least) Cant look at what was done before, have to look what can be done now. :2 cents:

You say people would lose members, ok that is short term. Imagine if a system was developed to stop say 80% of all content from being leaked industry wide. Once the floodgates are mostly closed and then you start sending out dmca's etc it would actually be worth it to sue people infringing on your content. Right now trying to sue or get content removed from sites is like trying to fill a bucket with piss that was used for shotgun target practice.

Everyone that cries about content theft mostly cries about stopping it post theft. Its like herding cats, its like trying to catch fleas with chopsticks, pissing in the wind etc etc etc Have to stop it from going out the door in the first place, or at least try to slow it. Until that leap is made not a damn thing will stop it period.

Then on top of that there will be new laws that are going to crack down on us 10 times harder if we dont keep it off kids computer monitors. Think about that when everyone cries about some members not liking drm, or a derivative thereof. :2 cents:

Ya watching The Italian job full screen on my second 22" monitor right now. It buffered right at the begining for about 2 to 3 minutes, as good of quality as if I was playing it from a downloaded file on my desktop if not better. No stops no buffering nothing.

How many people have a TOS for their paysites? Find a user sharing content, he is blackballed. Ya this will fall into a CB area unless we could get the processors to get on board with it. This can be done, its just not easy and quick.

well, your solution could be CDN - they handle the streaming, you just upload your content. bandwidth is just a little more expensive. you should contact CCBill about that - or ask your host

From a secret source.... http://eurorevenue.com Uses DRM, and prob does some sales too.

Legal Note: If you use DRM and anyone breaks it, rips your content, ect.. It is straight illegal and you can use that pressure on registrars to lock up domains and/or get injunctions, and expand into the EU, as it's straight theft at that point. It's something that is being used to attack torrents. The legal gates open wide, well past - country level copyright/trademarks.

I get very few surfer/member emails, since my sites are easy to navigate, the members area, too. So over 50% of my surfer emails are about the same "Can I download your movies?".