Summary of our Red Tube Thread

[Shap]

I thought I'd start this thread because my main message got completely lost and twisted. So here is a summary of what I've been trying to say about the RedTube situation.

I've tried fighting content theft for the past 7 years. I'm not good at it. From boards, babeblogs, rapdishare, megaupload and now to tube sites. I've had no success whatsoever. I'm great at making money but horrible and policing the web. Not only have I had no success but I also see company after company making money off my stolen content. Namely AFF. I can't explain how frustrating it is. I think we spent somewhere between $2,500,000 and $3,000,000 on content production last year alone. Spending that type of money on content and seeing it raped to no end drives me insane. With such little success in policing it RedTube came to us with the offer at the right time. They came to us and offered to not allow any stolen Twistys content to be posted and they would limit the clips to Twistys posted to 2 minutes max. Now you can sit back and give me shit for agreeing to it but the truth is nobody in this industry has done anything to help us in our fight against content theft and in my opinion if I could scratch RedTube off my list as a site stealing content that was a huge plus.

For those calling me an idiot for starting the thread. I only started it because for the past week there were multiple posts saying they wish Twistys would comment on it. So I did. I didn't start the thread for praise. I'm not an idiot. I knew it was going to upset some people. I just wanted to set the record straight. I've always been upfront and outspoken. I wasn't going to change now just because the message I had to deliver wasn't going to be popular.

[polish_aristocrat]

I expect 4 pages again ;)

[CurrentlySober]

i like poo

[Jet - BANNED FOR LIFE]

I can't explain how frustrating it is. I think we spent somewhere between $2,500,000 and $3,000,000 on content production last year alone. Spending that type of money on content and seeing it raped to no end drives me insane.

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by Jet

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

Contest/sig whores should stay out of some threads.

[notoldschool]

Originally Posted by baddog

Contest/sig whores should stay out of some threads.

So should silly seo guys.

[BVF]

[Trixxxia]

Out of the whole thread, (sorry I stopped reading it at some point when comments were just getting too silly) did anyone come out with any constructive ideas on how to fight the illegal tube sites? (other than DRM)

**Note:: I DID see quantum-x said he built software that would track the user that got access to your site and uploaded it. I'd like him to elaborate on how it works.

Webmasters have to figure that it's like one army against each 'site'. Tube-site owner (putting their site out there), their ad agency (more than willing to sell this traffic to devil to get their chunk of the pie), dating/cam/shady companies (buying up the traffic and funding them) and then there are the users, thousands/millions of them joining sites, downloading your entire sites and then sharing some (perhaps all).

When they are stealing 'your' content - even your competitors and 'friends' and companies you thought were allies are working against you. In fact, I'm sure a few of you webmasters have 'helped' in all of this by building up the 'marketing budget' for at least 1-2 and perhaps 3 of these companies, despite what is being done to damage YOUR bottomline, as well as the bottomline of honest programs that are paying you for your traffic.

Obviously, going after each site as an individual company and fighting them isn't going to help. Going after each member is going to be even more costly. Add to the fact that some are out of the country - and it makes it more complicated. Everyone working together will help. The problem is, how do we keep the good guys from going bad? If they can't afford being in business anymore, what can 'we' do to help them to keep seeing the 'right' way to do business?

I'm not saying everyone bend over and lube up, produce content to feed their sites cuz that's all that's left to do, NO - just saying, rather than nailing someone to a cross for trying to work with them to curb how they get fucked over - give constructive criticism, so here's my question:
"What would you recommend to all sponsors facing the same issue?"

[Dirty F]

Originally Posted by Jet

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

I don't think a loser who's been online for years who's only income is contest threads should post his opinion in this thread. In other words: Piss off dumb pathetic kid.

[Vick!]

lets make 5 pages again .. lol

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by Shap

I think we spent somewhere between $2,500,000 and $3,000,000 on content production last year alone. Spending that type of money on content and seeing it raped to no end drives me insane.

Originally Posted by Jet

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

Jet you're a goddamn idiot.

Unless you have that much cash, on hand right now...or you spend that much on content yourself, you need to STFU.

It's easy for all the idiots in the cheap seats to pontificate about what the "people with money" ought to do. (fight 2257 for you, fight acacia for you, fight the tube sites for you)
But until you have skin in the game, you should shut the fuck up, because you're all hat and no cattle.

[jcsike]

this summed it up for me, if you dont have credibility, you dont have anything

Originally Posted by Shap

We've never claimed it's a benefit to the surfer. It's not a value added product.

We do however put the earnings from the cross sales to a positive use. We invest 100% of the proceeds from the cross sales back to member's area content. We've never claimed it's a benefit to the surfer. It's not a value added product.

We tried unchecked and pre checked. The customer service tickets were the same. Seeing that neither caused an increase or decrease in customer service tickets we decided to go with the one that made the most money.

Originally Posted by Shap

Wow! How is Weg Cash getting staying under 1% chargebacks with this scam? So I see WEG cash pin their announcement about free trials. So i check it out to see what they are doing. Just as their surfers would do I click the join button and here is the signup form i get....



So the surfers get here after clicking a page that says FREE Trial.

They are getting a free trial (which renews at $39.17) but wait that's not all

they also get a nice pre-checked cross sell for 3 days that costs $1.37 and renews and $34.86
AS WELL as another 3 day free trial that renews at $39.37.

To summarize the surfer who thought they were getting a free trial is really getting access to 3 different sites for $1.37 for 3 days and will be billed $113.40 in 3 days time.

So I guess my question is wtf how are they doing this and staying under 1% chargebacks? The interesting thing is vipweb.com and xxxpass.com look like two bullshit sites run by either them or some other big pps company trying to bang out charges back and forth with WEG.

[LadyMischief]

Originally Posted by Shap

I thought I'd start this thread because my main message got completely lost and twisted. So here is a summary of what I've been trying to say about the RedTube situation.

I've tried fighting content theft for the past 7 years. I'm not good at it. From boards, babeblogs, rapdishare, megaupload and now to tube sites. I've had no success whatsoever. I'm great at making money but horrible and policing the web. Not only have I had no success but I also see company after company making money off my stolen content. Namely AFF. I can't explain how frustrating it is. I think we spent somewhere between $2,500,000 and $3,000,000 on content production last year alone. Spending that type of money on content and seeing it raped to no end drives me insane. With such little success in policing it RedTube came to us with the offer at the right time. They came to us and offered to not allow any stolen Twistys content to be posted and they would limit the clips to Twistys posted to 2 minutes max. Now you can sit back and give me shit for agreeing to it but the truth is nobody in this industry has done anything to help us in our fight against content theft and in my opinion if I could scratch RedTube off my list as a site stealing content that was a huge plus.

For those calling me an idiot for starting the thread. I only started it because for the past week there were multiple posts saying they wish Twistys would comment on it. So I did. I didn't start the thread for praise. I'm not an idiot. I knew it was going to upset some people. I just wanted to set the record straight. I've always been upfront and outspoken. I wasn't going to change now just because the message I had to deliver wasn't going to be popular.

Well some of us understood ya, Shap. And not all moves we have to make in business are popular, but people tend to forget this is still a business at the end, and people have to do what's best and makes sense for their business. Honestly mad kudos for standing up and doign SOMETHING instead of just sitting back and letting the pillage continue. As I said in your other threads, making those kinds of people ACCOUNTABLE for what they do with your content is a step in the right direction. Any problem can only be tackled one step at a time.

[testpie]

Originally Posted by notoldschool

So should silly seo guys.

On a side note, as somebody brought up in the original thread, has anybody actually found out about legal tube sites from anywhere else but them being mentioned on GFY or another adult webmaster forum? I know I haven't.

[LadyMischief]

Originally Posted by Jet

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

Easy for you to say when it's someone else's money :P

[LadyMischief]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

Jet you're a goddamn idiot.

Unless you have that much cash, on hand right now...or you spend that much on content yourself, you need to STFU.

It's easy for all the idiots in the cheap seats to pontificate about what the "people with money" ought to do. (fight 2257 for you, fight acacia for you, fight the tube sites for you)
But until you have skin in the game, you should shut the fuck up, because you're all hat and no cattle.

Damn, well, pretty much. lol.

[Dirty F]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

Jet you're a goddamn idiot.

Unless you have that much cash, on hand right now...or you spend that much on content yourself, you need to STFU.

It's easy for all the idiots in the cheap seats to pontificate about what the "people with money" ought to do. (fight 2257 for you, fight acacia for you, fight the tube sites for you)
But until you have skin in the game, you should shut the fuck up, because you're all hat and no cattle.

He admitted that he is broke..hes been online since 2002 and maybe longer and his income is contest threads. Can you believe that someone like that has the guts to say stuff like he did in this thread. Unbelievable. Someone should put that kid in place. Probably his mommy.

[Jet - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by baddog

Contest/sig whores should stay out of some threads.

Baddog
Posts: 63,316

you are in no position to talk down to sigwhores

[Jet - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

Jet you're a goddamn idiot.

Unless you have that much cash, on hand right now...or you spend that much on content yourself, you need to STFU.

It's easy for all the idiots in the cheap seats to pontificate about what the "people with money" ought to do. (fight 2257 for you, fight acacia for you, fight the tube sites for you)
But until you have skin in the game, you should shut the fuck up, because you're all hat and no cattle.

I may be broke, but I have learned a thing or two over the time.

Shap is fucking surfers over with pre-checked cross sales and then comes here whinig about tube site not being fair.

LOL?

[shunga]

Originally Posted by Shap

I've tried fighting content theft for the past 7 years. I'm not good at it. From boards, babeblogs, rapdishare, megaupload and now to tube sites. I've had no success whatsoever. I'm great at making money but horrible and policing the web.

If you're spending that much on content, and having seen bits of it I can believe your numbers, you must have a lawyer on retainer and someone, or some people, either in house or external to track it down and handle it, Shap?

[Jet - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Twistys join page:

[x] Sign me up for a 3 day trial Membership to www.brazzers.com for $1.00. After 3 days, Membership renews automatically at $39.97 every 1 month. Terms and Conditions

[BVF]

Originally Posted by Jet

I may be broke, but I have learned a thing or two over the time.

Shap is fucking surfers over with pre-checked cross sales and then comes here whinig about tube site not being fair.

LOL?

Jet is a moron but this fact remarkably remains ignored.

A spade is a spade....

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

Jet you're a goddamn idiot.

Unless you have that much cash, on hand right now...or you spend that much on content yourself, you need to STFU.

It's easy for all the idiots in the cheap seats to pontificate about what the "people with money" ought to do. (fight 2257 for you, fight acacia for you, fight the tube sites for you)
But until you have skin in the game, you should shut the fuck up, because you're all hat and no cattle.

Lenny they should be fighting it for themselves instead of rolling over. Shap says he has been fighting it for 7 yrs, how many courts cases against thiefs? against advertisers that support thieves? I dont know about you if I was spending 2-3 million on content, I would be a very large pain in the ass.At the very least hire 10 outsourced people with nothing to do all day long but find my content and send dmca's all day long.
Im a little guy so all I can do is get fucked and smile but to have the means and do nothing is fucking crazy to me. Then say well I will made a deal and they fucked him anyway.

[tony286]

Also if someone doesnt want commentary dont post on fucking gfy. lol

[tony286]

Also Im not posting in thread again because this shit really fucking upsets me and I wont have my sunday ruined over this.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by Jet

Baddog
Posts: 63,316

you are in no position to talk down to sigwhores

Really? Anything in my sig that I don't own? I will talk down to you at any opportunity. Did you return the Christmas gifts you stole from your neighbors?

[will76]

Originally Posted by Shap

I thought I'd start this thread because my main message got completely lost and twisted. So here is a summary of what I've been trying to say about the RedTube situation.

I've tried fighting content theft for the past 7 years. I'm not good at it. From boards, babeblogs, rapdishare, megaupload and now to tube sites. I've had no success whatsoever. I'm great at making money but horrible and policing the web. Not only have I had no success but I also see company after company making money off my stolen content. Namely AFF. I can't explain how frustrating it is. I think we spent somewhere between $2,500,000 and $3,000,000 on content production last year alone. Spending that type of money on content and seeing it raped to no end drives me insane. With such little success in policing it RedTube came to us with the offer at the right time. They came to us and offered to not allow any stolen Twistys content to be posted and they would limit the clips to Twistys posted to 2 minutes max. Now you can sit back and give me shit for agreeing to it but the truth is nobody in this industry has done anything to help us in our fight against content theft and in my opinion if I could scratch RedTube off my list as a site stealing content that was a huge plus.

For those calling me an idiot for starting the thread. I only started it because for the past week there were multiple posts saying they wish Twistys would comment on it. So I did. I didn't start the thread for praise. I'm not an idiot. I knew it was going to upset some people. I just wanted to set the record straight. I've always been upfront and outspoken. I wasn't going to change now just because the message I had to deliver wasn't going to be popular.

one honest question... Did you really expect thieves to be honest with you and honor the requirements you set for them?

Everyone knows that site makes money off of stolen content. There are good tube sites out there with out stolen content and there are bad ones with stolen content. They are the way they are because it makes them more money. They could easily change if they wanted to but they dont. If they removed all the stolen content they would be left with a site full of sponsor approved stuff that was 3 mins long or less, and they would lose marketshare to megarotic or youtube.

[will76]

Originally Posted by LadyMischief

Well some of us understood ya, Shap. And not all moves we have to make in business are popular, but people tend to forget this is still a business at the end, and people have to do what's best and makes sense for their business. Honestly mad kudos for standing up and doign SOMETHING instead of just sitting back and letting the pillage continue. As I said in your other threads, making those kinds of people ACCOUNTABLE for what they do with your content is a step in the right direction. Any problem can only be tackled one step at a time.

"Mad kudos for standing up and doing SOMETHING instead of sitting back and letting the pillage continue."

Maybe I missed it what did Shap do? He said Redtube contacted him and wanted to be an affiliate and work with him and put his content on their site (which is full of stolen content). He said ok but only is you do these requirements. They ignored his requirements and he suspended their account.

I miss what the made kudos and doing SOMETHING should be for? He thought theives will play ball with him and be honest, he was wrong. Did I miss anything?

[will76]

Originally Posted by tony404

Also if someone doesnt want commentary dont post on fucking gfy. lol

Amen, and the ignore feature works well too, i have tons of people on it I don't want to hear from.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by will76

one honest question... Did you really expect thieves to be honest with you and honor the requirements you set for them?

I didn't expect them to be easy to deal with but did offer to give them a chance and see if they could prove me wrong.

Now an honest question for you.

When you bragged to Mike about how much you've made on ICQ. Did you think you were going to impress him with that number?

[JFK]

Originally Posted by Dirty F

I don't think a loser who's been online for years who's only income is contest threads should post his opinion in this thread. In other words: Piss off dumb pathetic kid.

can I quote you on that ?

[Far-L]

Shap - Have you checked with counsel about the possibility of going after AFF as a contributory infringer?

[Nardimus]

Shap... whatever you do i think is a good move. You have proved you know what the fuck is going on in this business. Thanks for the info on why.

[RogerV]

This industry has always been shady one way or another. We all know you cant beat them sometimes you have to join them to a certain degree. Nobody can Police the Porn on the net its impossible.

I understand your fustration

[teksonline]

you have not tried sueing one person, you have no right to complain period

[ProjectNaked]

Originally Posted by Shap

...They came to us and offered to not allow any stolen Twistys content to be posted and they would limit the clips to Twistys posted to 2 minutes max.

so they basically admitted to you that they allow stolen content but they would be nice to you?? Well, they have to find some way to make their theft pay off. You are just the washing machine for the illegal money.

"It's not wrong if you can convince yourself it's ok"

[pornask]

Originally Posted by BVF

Jet is a moron but this fact remarkably remains ignored.

A spade is a spade....

quoted for truth.

[Useless Warrior]

Originally Posted by will76

Everyone knows that site makes money off of stolen content.

That alone should be enough to make any real business shun them. I'll guarantee that any attorney would insist that his/her client not conduct business with RedTube. But where there's a penny to be made, someone will chase after it. When the lawsuits finally rain down on RedTube, don't be surprised if its paid advertisers are listed amongst the defendants.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

That alone should be enough to make any real business shun them. I'll guarantee that any attorney would insist that his/her client not conduct business with RedTube. But where there's a penny to be made, someone will chase after it. When the lawsuits finally rain down on RedTube, don't be surprised if its paid advertisers are listed amongst the defendants.

We currently are not doing business with RedTube

[seeric]

Renegades and Rebels.

Gonna be that way forever. Make your decisions accordingly.

[quantum-x]

Originally Posted by Trixxxia

Out of the whole thread, (sorry I stopped reading it at some point when comments were just getting too silly) did anyone come out with any constructive ideas on how to fight the illegal tube sites? (other than DRM)

**Note:: I DID see quantum-x said he built software that would track the user that got access to your site and uploaded it. I'd like him to elaborate on how it works.

Webmasters have to figure that it's like one army against each 'site'. Tube-site owner (putting their site out there), their ad agency (more than willing to sell this traffic to devil to get their chunk of the pie), dating/cam/shady companies (buying up the traffic and funding them) and then there are the users, thousands/millions of them joining sites, downloading your entire sites and then sharing some (perhaps all).

When they are stealing 'your' content - even your competitors and 'friends' and companies you thought were allies are working against you. In fact, I'm sure a few of you webmasters have 'helped' in all of this by building up the 'marketing budget' for at least 1-2 and perhaps 3 of these companies, despite what is being done to damage YOUR bottomline, as well as the bottomline of honest programs that are paying you for your traffic.

Obviously, going after each site as an individual company and fighting them isn't going to help. Going after each member is going to be even more costly. Add to the fact that some are out of the country - and it makes it more complicated. Everyone working together will help. The problem is, how do we keep the good guys from going bad? If they can't afford being in business anymore, what can 'we' do to help them to keep seeing the 'right' way to do business?

I'm not saying everyone bend over and lube up, produce content to feed their sites cuz that's all that's left to do, NO - just saying, rather than nailing someone to a cross for trying to work with them to curb how they get fucked over - give constructive criticism, so here's my question:
"What would you recommend to all sponsors facing the same issue?"

The software ties in to most major CMS's and standalone member's areas, and without any re-rendering / converting / encoding etc allows site owners to tie back content they find on boards, rapidshare, etc etc, to a specifc membername, IP and time/date - which they can further follow up w/ their join information.

It's hardy enough to survive a splitting and sharing, but not to survive re-encoding [ie tubes] - but there are solutions that can survive that [they're rather expensive, aimed at the movie industry, and work by 'invisibly' watermarking the video frames.

[clickhappy]

Ive gone to adult trade shows where trainers give seminars showing how to put sample teaser clips with your url on to torrent and bearshare-type sites to promote yourself. Everyone thought it was a great idea.

I dont see how this is different. If its a chance to promote your business and get even more signups then why not?

[teksonline]

wake up people, he has no concern of protecting his content, its smoke n mirrors, all they care about is the branding of their name.. they feel they are superier than the rest of the industry and using tubes to help keep them on top with their name

[TheAgent]

Originally Posted by Shap

I thought I'd start this thread because my main message got completely lost and twisted. So here is a summary of what I've been trying to say about the RedTube situation.

I've tried fighting content theft for the past 7 years. I'm not good at it. From boards, babeblogs, rapdishare, megaupload and now to tube sites. I've had no success whatsoever. I'm great at making money but horrible and policing the web. Not only have I had no success but I also see company after company making money off my stolen content. Namely AFF. I can't explain how frustrating it is. I think we spent somewhere between $2,500,000 and $3,000,000 on content production last year alone. Spending that type of money on content and seeing it raped to no end drives me insane. With such little success in policing it RedTube came to us with the offer at the right time. They came to us and offered to not allow any stolen Twistys content to be posted and they would limit the clips to Twistys posted to 2 minutes max. Now you can sit back and give me shit for agreeing to it but the truth is nobody in this industry has done anything to help us in our fight against content theft and in my opinion if I could scratch RedTube off my list as a site stealing content that was a huge plus.

For those calling me an idiot for starting the thread. I only started it because for the past week there were multiple posts saying they wish Twistys would comment on it. So I did. I didn't start the thread for praise. I'm not an idiot. I knew it was going to upset some people. I just wanted to set the record straight. I've always been upfront and outspoken. I wasn't going to change now just because the message I had to deliver wasn't going to be popular.

Would'nt the obvious loophole for them to fuck you again is that those guys just break up your videos in 2 min segments and create 10 parts, I sure would

[Doctor Dre]

Originally Posted by teksonline

wake up people, he has no concern of protecting his content, its smoke n mirrors, all they care about is the branding of their name.. they feel they are superier than the rest of the industry and using tubes to help keep them on top with their name

Actually using tube sites to get their names out there isn't stupid at all.

[will76]

Originally Posted by Shap

I didn't expect them to be easy to deal with but did offer to give them a chance and see if they could prove me wrong.

Now an honest question for you.

When you bragged to Mike about how much you've made on ICQ. Did you think you were going to impress him with that number?

Sure, I have no reason to lie I will answer honestly. or would you like to see a copy of the chat log?

I only wonder what he told you being that he told everyone on GFY that I was insulting his family for 30 minutes. I didn't insult his family one time and even asked him why and they hell would I, i don't even know them.

As far as "bragging" about how much people make, what I told Michael was in response to him telling me this:

"i have made millions doing the same things as you"
"i have been in this business since 1996"
"since pre-pam and tommy lee"
"i have done very well for myself"

my reply:
" well i have makde over 6 million from clickcash. so when people want to use clickcash they know i am going to know the best on how to help them make the most money, most people think it is nice for me to help them and share my knowledge and tools, especially since i dont charge them. "

I didn't mention a penny of how much I make to your boy until he said he made millions, been in the business since 1996 and does well for himself. My reply back was explaining to him why some people would see my help as a benefit, obviously since i do well I must know how to convert clickcash pretty well. Keep in mind is this all in the course of a hour long conversation where I am trying to explain to him that webmaster referrals are not the same as amway. You might want to explain the difference to him, I couldn't get through to him. Do you think the same way Shap? do you think webmaster rerferrals and helping people = runnig an illegal pyramid scheme ?

Also while you are at it why don't you ask Michael why he said that I insulted his family when that was a fucking lie. Great guy you have working for you there, I can only imagine when he told you I was "bragging" to him that he managed to leave off the part where he was running his mouth first telling me how he has made millions....

And if you doubt any of what I am saying I will get you access to my desk top so you can view the ICQ logs for yourself.

You might not like my views on content theft and people who do business with them but you really should stay on topic, trying to take little pop shots at me isn't going to get you anywhere especially when you have incorrect info to start with.

[will76]

Originally Posted by clickhappy

Ive gone to adult trade shows where trainers give seminars showing how to put sample teaser clips with your url on to torrent and bearshare-type sites to promote yourself. Everyone thought it was a great idea.

I dont see how this is different. If its a chance to promote your business and get even more signups then why not?

are you serious ? the key word you used is " teasers". the problem with illegal tube sites is stolen content, full length, not just teaser clips. Try giving all of your full lenght videos away for free with a url on them and see how many signups up get

[NinjaSteve]

Originally Posted by will76

are you serious ? the key word you used is " teasers". the problem with illegal tube sites is stolen content, full length, not just teaser clips. Try giving all of your full lenght videos away for free with a url on them and see how many signups up get

You have a problem with an 18 minute teaser? I think that even 2 minutes is far to long. If you think about it, galleries usually offer 60-90 seconds of clips so one clip that's about 60 seconds seems good enough to me right now for a tube style site.

I haven't paid attention to tube threads as much as I should have, but the sites using stolen content... their bandwidth has to be through the roof. And paying a tube site with loads of stolen content is a pretty poor business decision. Even if they're were to follow 'your terms' of promoting 'your content' you're just funding their operation to steal and share other people's content.

[will76]

Shap, my icq is 86364801 if you want to chat any time feel free to contact me.

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by Jet

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

You are a fucking idiot.