Playing Devils Advocate With Redtube and YouPorn

[TheAgent]

Ok so most of you are upset and bitter about these sites "stealing" content from your beautiful sites. One you have to be kidding me if you think the government is going to go after every fuck knob stealing your porn content.

A realistic question is how many of you fuck knobs are really going to sue them (youporn, redtube and any others), if you know a thing or two about law they just will say the same thing YouTube did "safe harbor" that they cannot be held responsible for what their visitors upload, they can say they are trying to develop way to protect copyright material. End of story and judge throws out the case. Two the amount of lawyer fees you have to dish out for stuff like this can be very expensive in the end you loose money period.

DMCA Notice of Copyright Infringement
In accordance with the Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998 (the text of which may be found on the U.S. Copyright Office, YouPorn will respond expeditiously to claims of copyright infringement that are reported to YouPorn's designated copyright agent identified below. GET OUT OF JAIL FREE CARD


In conclusion, people are paying for your content and taking and it and doing whatever they want with it, and you cant do a damm thing to stop it. Become more innovative and come up with something better

[Linguist]

A thought: send DMCA notices to their host. The hosting company will be required to take the account down until the issue is resolved... but chances are that the host is in bed with them anyway... worth a try though if your content is being ripped.

[Barefootsies]

Um yeeeeeeaaah..

Funny. When I contacted Google video, Youtube, Rapidshare, and Megaupload. None claimed "safe harbor" anything. All removed it in 24 hours, and Youtube/Google gave me a tool to remove shit in the future once I signed a form.

Next...

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Linguist

A thought: send DMCA notices to their host. The hosting company will be required to take the account down until the issue is resolved... but chances are that the host is in bed with them anyway... worth a try though if your content is being ripped.

Right. You also DMCA them at the search engine level. They will be removed from Google, Yahoo, and so on.

Then there is their hosting, registrar, billing company... etc

[OzMan]

I can guarantee

that you run a tube site because one you are not the

best
at
two
formatting text, don't you think?

[TheAgent]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Um yeeeeeeaaah..

Funny. When I contacted Google video, Youtube, Rapidshare, and Megaupload. None claimed "safe harbor" anything. All removed it in 24 hours, and Youtube/Google gave me a tool to remove shit in the future once I signed a form.

Next...

Homeboy they are still winning, don't kid yourself

They own the servers, its their own hosting company, the sites have a following

[Barefootsies]

I would like to know just how many people IN these types of threads actually PRODUCE and/or OWN any copyrights. Much less have any experience dealing with companies.

My guess is 1% if that. Especially from the responses.

When I come across my content some where. You are hit with a 24 hours C&D. You can remove it, or the next reminder will go to your host, registrar, all billing companies I find on your site.

Most, large or small, remove it. Google had your sign a proof of ownership affidavit. That's a one time thing. It's simply not worth the hassle for the offender to get their accounts frozen when they can delete your shit, and put in some filters for the future to try and prevent it.

Most prefer to stay off the radar. Not do a piratebay.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by TheAgent

Homeboy they are still winning, don't kid yourself

They own the servers, its their own hosting company, the sites have a following

Sorry home girl, but they do not own the billing company.

They have to accept money somehow. Kill the money stream. Kill the site.

Following or not.

[fuckingfuck]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Um yeeeeeeaaah..

Funny. When I contacted Google video, Youtube, Rapidshare, and Megaupload. None claimed "safe harbor" anything. All removed it in 24 hours, and Youtube/Google gave me a tool to remove shit in the future once I signed a form.

Next...

[Ayla_SquareTurtle]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Um yeeeeeeaaah..

Funny. When I contacted Google video, Youtube, Rapidshare, and Megaupload. None claimed "safe harbor" anything. All removed it in 24 hours, and Youtube/Google gave me a tool to remove shit in the future once I signed a form.

Next...

perhaps I do not fully understand all of the various legal issues, but doesn't this put the onus of finding the content on the producer/copyright holder? considering the number of these sites and the fast moving nature of the whole piracy "movement" it seems highly unlikely that any real control could be taken. I mean... 10 years ago, you could find any song you wanted for free on the net. Today... you still can. As I said, I'm no expert on this subject but to the best of my understanding, this doesn't seem to address the bigger issue.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Ayla_SquareTurtle

perhaps I do not fully understand all of the various legal issues, but doesn't this put the onus of finding the content on the producer/copyright holder? considering the number of these sites and the fast moving nature of the whole piracy "movement" it seems highly unlikely that any real control could be taken. I mean... 10 years ago, you could find any song you wanted for free on the net. Today... you still can. As I said, I'm no expert on this subject but to the best of my understanding, this doesn't seem to address the bigger issue.

No offense but this logic always humors me, and shouldn't.

The logic is, policing your own shit is a nuassance, so why not just wait around, complain, and do nothing and hope a law is passed. Or some bigger company sues them and sends a chilling effect through "da biz".

You're right. The perfect solution is, it doesn't happen. The next best is you police your shit, and get a reputation like Perfect 10, Playboy, Suz Randall and others where people know better than to post your shit.

You can do SOMETHING or you can do NOTHING and cry about your conversions and dropping sales and shit. We prefer to do something about it. Sales have not dropped, and neither have out 1: 6 conversion ratio over the past 2-3 years.

So while YOU do not think it's worth your precious time (if you produce content). I think that spending a day or two a month IS worth it. Eventually people do not want the hassle, and self police against your stuff. Just as they do Perfect 10, Suze Randall, Playboy and others.

It's not perfect. But there is not every going to BE a perfect solution. To think there ever will be is ridiculous in it's own right.

[Ayla_SquareTurtle]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

...

well, if you believe that just a few days a month are enough, then it changes the equation to a degree. it just seems that the problem is so wide spread that it would take more of an effort than that.

[Bossman]

Most law is based on intent - do the tube sites intent to get stolen content, do they intent not to police their own site, do they intent to make money indirectly/directly by the distributing copies of the content to othes etc. all which will speak against the tube sites, once they are put before a judge.

And remember politicians NEED to see that the existing law does not do what was intented in court, before they will make any new laws. Tubesites are like spamming operations 2003 (can-spam) - trying to go below the radar, getting hordes of surfer eyeballs to see their ads, however unlike the spammers I suspect tube sites make 1/100 of what they did, which should make anyone doing tube sites ask themself - does the profit reward the risks?

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

The next best is you police your shit, and get a reputation like Perfect 10, Playboy, Suz Randall and others where people know better than to post your shit.

Or you build an organisation that will police it for you and they handle everything. The organisation needs to be as bad ass as it can be and make sure the pirates know it's not worth stealing off anyone in the organisation.

The problem is so many sites will not spend any money on it, more don't care, affiliates will not support the sites who do this and the apathy allows the pirates to profit.

[Bossman]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

The problem is so many sites will not spend any money on it, more don't care, affiliates will not support the sites who do this and the apathy allows the pirates to profit.

I think most paysite owners who have licensed content would not mind paying, if the content producers/resellers actual did something proactive, and did more than promise to go after anyone who broke the rules of the license or stole their content. Add the cost to when paysites are buying content - ex. 1% of total to anti-privacy fund or a fixed amount per video/picture, and inform paysite owners to report ANY suspects URLs to the content owner or his/her anti-privacy organization.

[Davy]

What pisses me off is that redtube grew their site with stolen content and now go in the direction of running a "legitimate" tube site. Did you notice you can no longer search the site?

Even if the stolen content is on their site for a few days only, the damage is done. If they host 20 of your videos for only a few days (until you send them the dmca) and 100,000 people download them each, you have 2 million copies of that movie distributed for free.
Can't you sue them for the damage that was made?

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Bossman

I think most paysite owners who have licensed content would not mind paying, if the content producers/resellers actual did something proactive, and did more than promise to go after anyone who broke the rules of the license or stole their content. Add the cost to when paysites are buying content - ex. 1% of total to anti-privacy fund or a fixed amount per video/picture, and inform paysite owners to report ANY suspects URLs to the content owner or his/her anti-privacy organization.

Nice idea, but in practise people buy non exclusive on price. Raise the price and sales fall.

[Bossman]

Originally Posted by Bossman

I think most paysite owners who have licensed content would not mind paying, if the content producers/resellers actual did something proactive, and did more than promise to go after anyone who broke the rules of the license or stole their content. Add the cost to when paysites are buying content - ex. 1% of total to anti-piracy fund or a fixed amount per video/picture, and inform paysite owners to report ANY suspects URLs to the content owner or his/her anti-piracy organization.

Ups! should say anti-piracy Guess I need to re-read my posts before posting - but this issue is so frustrating, since the content owners/rellers are holding the key to solve the problem. The key is to enforcing the licenses they give out. When a paysite owner pays for the content, then he/she actual think that the content owner/reseller is serious about going after those that do not.

Content owners/reseller
-----------------------
Enforce your licenses

Inform paysite owners to report any suspect urls having the content, which he/she have just licensed.

Paysite owners
---------------
ONLY buy from content owners/resellers who promise to prolong the value of the content you are buying by going after thieves, and other licensors who are breaking the rules of the license.

Inform content owners/reselles about suspecting urls - drop content owners/resellers who do nothing with the information.

[Bossman]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Nice idea, but in practise people buy non exclusive on price. Raise the price and sales fall.

Not if you specify, or make it optional... make it an anti-piracy insurance.

Think out of the box - business is NOT about the lowest price, but about the best product for the price. Bring more value to the table!

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Bossman

Content owners/reseller
-----------------------
Enforce your licenses

Inform paysite owners to report any suspect urls having the content, which he/she have just licensed.

We actually do.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Ayla_SquareTurtle

well, if you believe that just a few days a month are enough, then it changes the equation to a degree. it just seems that the problem is so wide spread that it would take more of an effort than that.

"It would seem"

You would be surprised what you can accomplish in a day's worth of time.

Again, I ask, how many in this thread actually OWN or PRODUCE content and have experience dealing with it? I know Paul does.

But too often these threads become a bunch of surfer, tube site owners, or bottom rung people, telling others who produce content to change with the time. Basically pushing hot buttons for sig views. It's more than obvious that most talking ON this issue have....

1. Never dealt with getting content removed
2. Never dealt with G, Youtube, Rapidshare, MegaUpload .. on getting content removed.
3. Never served a DMCA

It's not as hard as many make out, and it sounds like many have never done it, and have no intention because "it's a loto f work". Yeah, well no fucking shit. But it's best to spend the time policing it since you are not going to get an industry resolve otherwise.

Crying about it. Not doing anything about it and waiting on some unity effort from the adult industry full of fry guys is a joke. Either do something about it, or stop crying about it. Bawling on GFY is not going to get your content removed.

Yeah. It would be nice if they did not do it. I am sure the RCAA and movie organizations feel the same. As well as countless other groups on the net. However, people are going to keep doing it. Just like mainstream people rip off others designs, and sites with no shame.

The DIFFERENCE is that some of us will track them down, and get our stuff removed. Or, we will knock out their ability to do business. Most will remove your content and forgo the grief of you getting their bank, or funds seized, etc.

[Bossman]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

We actually do.

Excellent

I know we have stopped buying content from specific owners/resellers, because their content end up on tube sites, and/or their other licensors give out enormous amount of it for free. So far I have only read that you and WWC will react when getting informed about possible stolen content or someone breaking the terms of the license.

What I would like to see are content owners/resellers selling their content based on some kind of insurance that this content will not be given away for free in its entirety or in large/plot parts (those 5 minutes clips and cumshot clips are not meant to be outside any paysite membership area - you don´t see hollywood giving away their movies in 5 minutes clips or releasing the final scene on YouTube).

There is NO free genie in adult - not many people are taking pics or recording videos of themself and spreading it for everyone to see for free. 99.99% of all content on adult tube sites were made for PROFIT - somewhere, someone is sitting owning the copyright, and its only the lack of enforcment that is giving room for people to steal and make money on it.

Seriously, if any quality content owner, studio owner, content reseller etc. can not enforce the copyright, then get in contact with me, sign over the exclusive rights for internet usage to us, and we will do the enforcement for you for share of the internet profits (yes, we have staff to do this)

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Bossman

Excellent