Adult Collection Agency? - GoFuckYourself.com

cherrylula · 10-05-2002, 09:18 AM

Maybe this industry needs to start sending out collection notices to bounced check subscriptions, and dishonest chargebacks?

If you bounce a check to a store or book club, you can be sure ad fuck they will be sending you a bill and adding on like $50 in bounced check and customer service fees. Why is this industry not entitled to something of this nature? I think we are.

Those who fail to pay their bills would need to be reported to either chexsystems or the credit bureaus. Just because its porn does not mean they can get away with not paying. When jerkoff joe surfer realizes his credit is gonna get fucked for trying to scam an adult site he will think twice.

A nice disclaimer on sites about collection agencies perhaps?

karenv1 · 10-05-2002, 09:23 AM

Now we are getting it!

Treat this business like any other.

Why should the porn biz be any less than any other business out there?

Plan "B"

dotcom · 10-05-2002, 09:33 AM

Great idea cherrylula,

and so as to not discourage sign-ups at the join page that statement about
collection agencies etc should be put on the "cancel subscription page".

I'm sure most surfers will quickly hit their back button.

cherrylula · 10-05-2002, 09:37 AM

Ok, so make the info really small and hard to read legal text basically saying they are responsible for paying this amount once they enter the site, blah blah blah.

I've gotten collection notices from magazine subscriptions before, and I can't say I recalled a big warning about being harrassed with collection notices if I failed to pay for the subscription, before I joined.

I do believe it is a right we have to chase down people who try to get out of paying.

karenv1 · 10-05-2002, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dotcom

I'm sure most surfers will quickly hit their back button.

[/B]

Yep they will......no doubt....for awhile

It's gonna be a shakeup entirely

cherrylula · 10-05-2002, 09:49 AM

Yeah the surfers are gonna get a jolt in this too.

As it is half of them think porn is free and won't pay for it.

The good thing is there ARE lots of surfers who honestly and legitimately WANT to pay for porn and will continue to do so. We must look towards the positive things and those surfers with a some integrity and fat pockets.

We ALL know there is a demand, its just time to make it stricter to subscribe to a porn site.

If all of a sudden there was a lack of free porn and a huge campaign enacted that you have to "qualify" somehow to join a porn site, I think most porn freaks would be panicking. Make those fuckers realize just as it is our "privelage" to use visa, it is THEIR privelage to join our sites.

karenv1 · 10-05-2002, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cherrylula

As it is half of them think porn is free and won't pay for it.

We ALL know there is a demand, its just time to make it stricter to subscribe to a porn site.

If all of a sudden there was a lack of free porn and a huge campaign enacted that you have to "qualify" somehow to join a porn site, I think most porn freaks would be panicking. Make those fuckers realize just as it is our "privelage" to use visa, it is THEIR privelage to join our sites. [/B]

Kingfish · 10-05-2002, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Maybe this industry needs to start sending out collection notices to bounced check subscriptions, and dishonest chargebacks?

If you bounce a check to a store or book club, you can be sure ad fuck they will be sending you a bill and adding on like $50 in bounced check and customer service fees. Why is this industry not entitled to something of this nature? I think we are.

Those who fail to pay their bills would need to be reported to either chexsystems or the credit bureaus. Just because its porn does not mean they can get away with not paying. When jerkoff joe surfer realizes his credit is gonna get fucked for trying to scam an adult site he will think twice.

A nice disclaimer on sites about collection agencies perhaps?

The short answer is that it is not economically feasible.

To answer your question in more detail most bounced checks are turned over to the local county prosecutor. I doubt collecting a bounced check for a porno account would be very high on their priority list. Which leaves you the option of hiring a collection agency/attorney to collect the debt or spend your own time trying to collect. You won?t be able to hire anyone to collect a $40 membership because you would have to pay him or her less than that for it to be profitable for you. Additionally, second party collections also fall under the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act and there is a tremendous amount of liability to the Attorney or Debt Collection agency involved and they won?t risk that for a small collection. Attorneys in my area charge $200 for one simple collection letter. Which ultimately leaves you to spend your own time writing collection letters and making collection calls. And you are a better judge than I if that is a productive way to spend your time.

Wenchy · 10-05-2002, 11:26 AM

Yeah but c'mon, Kingfish... how many of THEM actually know that?

I think cherrylula could be onto something. A lot of porn surfers are doing it on the sly anyway... I would imagine the mere suggestion of something like a collection agency would be enough to make them think twice about doing something heinous. Wouldn't even necessarily be anything you'd have to follow through with... just plant the idea and let it work as a deterent.

Just my

cherrylula · 10-05-2002, 11:57 AM

Well there has to be some sort of variation of this that is workable... to each his own of course.

I figured as much, and as Kingfish stated "The short answer is that it is not economically feasible."

In the future something like this must happen. Some sort of collection unless there is a huge change in the chargeback methods and stricter CB rules, and as of now with visa being the way they are, who can expect them to do anything in our favor in terms of chargebacks.

Digital thumbprint sounds good right now too. I have no doubt in a year from now things will be very different, whatever happens.

The billing processors (or somebody) needs to do more in terms of tracking a specific surfer and his entry into a site... MORE specifically than we can do right now.

If you order a pizza, eat half of it and then decide you want your money back for whatever reason, its not gonna happen as you already ate half the fucking pizza.

Even though we are smut peddlers we are entitled to rights.... especially Americans.

Business is business and I suppose I have to have some hope that since they are finally treating us webmasters like a "real business", that we will gain more rights in this game as well.

Carrie · 10-05-2002, 12:03 PM

Well, it might be a slow way to do it, and could take a while, but I think that a nice "Please explain why you charged back the amount you paid to enter our site" letter, complete with login times and dates, and amount spent on the site each time, sent to the chargeback person's home would certainly end his reign of joining and then charging back.

Might end his marriage too, but that's his fucking problem - if he's got a wife there's got to be some reason he's surfing the porn rather than boning the wife.

Think of each letter sent out as one less chargeback fucker that's ever going to do that again. We all benefit.
Take 'em down one at a time; it's slow, but if it's the only option we have... why the fuck not?

Carrie · 10-05-2002, 12:05 PM

PS - I think the idea of the collection agency's addresses and phone numbers with a warning about chargebacks being reported to the credit bureus (sp?) is a fucking fantastic idea.

Scootermuze · 10-05-2002, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Carrie
PS - I think the idea of the collection agency's addresses and phone numbers with a warning about chargebacks being reported to the credit bureus (sp?) is a fucking fantastic idea.

I think the card company has to report information to the credit bureaus.. I doubt that a webmaster would have the authority.

I think the cc fraud avenue is the way to go..
I also think there should be a major uprising of adult webmasters where they all contact the card companies and complain about their willingness to do chargebacks without any questions, which, in my opinion is aiding in a criminal act.
Those who buy memberships, get what they want, then do a chargeback are guilty of fraud. The cc companies that approve the chargebacks for these individuals are participants in the act.

Has anyone considered a class action lawsuit?

SpaceAce · 10-05-2002, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scootermuze

I think the card company has to report information to the credit bureaus.. I doubt that a webmaster would have the authority.

Think about the bad things on people's credit: late car payments, medical bills, student loans... You don't have to be a credit card company to report to the credit bureaus.

As for economic feasbility, it may not be feasible for smaller players in the industry but it isn't necessary for them. If the giants like ARS, SIC Cash, etc, were to start posting and following a policy like the one suggested, word would get around. There's things that you learn as you go through life and you don't need to be told every single time. You know fire is hot because every other fire you've ever seen is hot. If surfers start seeing consequences for fraud, they will begin to believe it applies to all porn paysites.

To be fair, I don't know what kind of action big sponsors currently take with chargebacks. If they already follow a strict policy like what is being discussed, then my theory is all washed up but I doubt that's the case.

SpaceAce

Kingfish · 10-05-2002, 02:29 PM

If a big player had sufficient resources they could probably retain an attorney to draft form collection letters and complaints. This would be the better route to go because if you do your own collections you don?t fall under the Fair Debt Collection Act. The trouble is even on a mass production scale like this you still have the fundamental problem of how much can you recover. Assume you have all of these forms, it still is going to cost you the small claims filling fee even if you win. In most jurisdictions that small claims filing fee is more than a months membership at your average paysite. You also open yourself up to having the legal system closely look at your site and your site?s content.

This part applies more to some of the comments in the other threads about publishing someone?s information that stiffed you.

There is also a tremendous amount of exposure if you make one mistake. If you wrongfully accuse someone of looking at goat sex pictures that didn?t, you could find yourself on the wrong side of a civil judgment in the thousands or even hundreds of thousands of dollars range. My advice is don?t do it unless you know for certain that the person?s information you have is the same person that has been looking at your site.

UnseenWorld · 10-05-2002, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cherrylula
Maybe this industry needs to start sending out collection notices to bounced check subscriptions, and dishonest chargebacks?

If you bounce a check to a store or book club, you can be sure ad fuck they will be sending you a bill and adding on like $50 in bounced check and customer service fees. Why is this industry not entitled to something of this nature? I think we are.

Those who fail to pay their bills would need to be reported to either chexsystems or the credit bureaus. Just because its porn does not mean they can get away with not paying. When jerkoff joe surfer realizes his credit is gonna get fucked for trying to scam an adult site he will think twice.

A nice disclaimer on sites about collection agencies perhaps?

With checks, maybe, but I'm sure you'll find something in the VISA/MC rules prohibiting attempts at collection after a chargeback.

kocur26 · 10-05-2002, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by UnseenWorld

With checks, maybe, but I'm sure you'll find something in the VISA/MC rules prohibiting attempts at collection after a chargeback.

No you won't. When they charge it back it does not release the surfer from the debt. We used to pursue collections and would even sue in small claims court. Never had a problem with the legality. The problem was collecting.

BTW, we also had in our TOS a section detailing how we would pursue fraudulent chargebacks, etc. In addition to any legal fees and collection fees we tacked on a penalty fee of $200. We never lost a case but were only able to collect roughly 10%. In the end it wasn't worth it because it was so hard to collect and took a lot of time.

cherrylula · 10-05-2002, 03:55 PM

yeah I figured it would not necessarily fly... but who knows what will happen down the line.

10-05-2002, 09:18 AM	#1
cherrylula lol Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 15,969	Adult Collection Agency? Maybe this industry needs to start sending out collection notices to bounced check subscriptions, and dishonest chargebacks? If you bounce a check to a store or book club, you can be sure ad fuck they will be sending you a bill and adding on like $50 in bounced check and customer service fees. Why is this industry not entitled to something of this nature? I think we are. Those who fail to pay their bills would need to be reported to either chexsystems or the credit bureaus. Just because its porn does not mean they can get away with not paying. When jerkoff joe surfer realizes his credit is gonna get fucked for trying to scam an adult site he will think twice. A nice disclaimer on sites about collection agencies perhaps?

10-05-2002, 09:37 AM	#4
cherrylula lol Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 15,969	Ok, so make the info really small and hard to read legal text basically saying they are responsible for paying this amount once they enter the site, blah blah blah. I've gotten collection notices from magazine subscriptions before, and I can't say I recalled a big warning about being harrassed with collection notices if I failed to pay for the subscription, before I joined. I do believe it is a right we have to chase down people who try to get out of paying. Last edited by cherrylula; 10-05-2002 at 09:39 AM..

10-05-2002, 11:26 AM	#9
Wenchy Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Mile High City Posts: 231	Yeah but c'mon, Kingfish... how many of THEM actually know that? I think cherrylula could be onto something. A lot of porn surfers are doing it on the sly anyway... I would imagine the mere suggestion of something like a collection agency would be enough to make them think twice about doing something heinous. Wouldn't even necessarily be anything you'd have to follow through with... just plant the idea and let it work as a deterent. Just my __________________ <br><a href="http://refer.ccbill.com/cgi-bin/clicks.cgi?CA=920346-0000&PA=581865&HTML=http://www.1000facials.com/webmasters/" target="_blank"><b>Looking for Amateur Reality Sites?<br><img src="http://banner.1000facials.com/1000facials_120x60_01.gif"><br>One Man... One Camera... One Mission<br></b></a>

10-05-2002, 02:29 PM	#15
Kingfish Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 668	If a big player had sufficient resources they could probably retain an attorney to draft form collection letters and complaints. This would be the better route to go because if you do your own collections you don?t fall under the Fair Debt Collection Act. The trouble is even on a mass production scale like this you still have the fundamental problem of how much can you recover. Assume you have all of these forms, it still is going to cost you the small claims filling fee even if you win. In most jurisdictions that small claims filing fee is more than a months membership at your average paysite. You also open yourself up to having the legal system closely look at your site and your site?s content. This part applies more to some of the comments in the other threads about publishing someone?s information that stiffed you. There is also a tremendous amount of exposure if you make one mistake. If you wrongfully accuse someone of looking at goat sex pictures that didn?t, you could find yourself on the wrong side of a civil judgment in the thousands or even hundreds of thousands of dollars range. My advice is don?t do it unless you know for certain that the person?s information you have is the same person that has been looking at your site. Last edited by Kingfish; 10-05-2002 at 02:32 PM..

10-05-2002, 09:23 AM	#2
karenv1 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: middle of the fucking desert Posts: 12	Now we are getting it! Treat this business like any other. Why should the porn biz be any less than any other business out there? Plan "B"

10-05-2002, 09:33 AM	#3
dotcom Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 24	Great idea cherrylula, and so as to not discourage sign-ups at the join page that statement about collection agencies etc should be put on the "cancel subscription page". I'm sure most surfers will quickly hit their back button.

10-05-2002, 09:49 AM	#6
cherrylula lol Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 15,969	Yeah the surfers are gonna get a jolt in this too. As it is half of them think porn is free and won't pay for it. The good thing is there ARE lots of surfers who honestly and legitimately WANT to pay for porn and will continue to do so. We must look towards the positive things and those surfers with a some integrity and fat pockets. We ALL know there is a demand, its just time to make it stricter to subscribe to a porn site. If all of a sudden there was a lack of free porn and a huge campaign enacted that you have to "qualify" somehow to join a porn site, I think most porn freaks would be panicking. Make those fuckers realize just as it is our "privelage" to use visa, it is THEIR privelage to join our sites.

10-05-2002, 11:57 AM	#10
cherrylula lol Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 15,969	Well there has to be some sort of variation of this that is workable... to each his own of course. I figured as much, and as Kingfish stated "The short answer is that it is not economically feasible." In the future something like this must happen. Some sort of collection unless there is a huge change in the chargeback methods and stricter CB rules, and as of now with visa being the way they are, who can expect them to do anything in our favor in terms of chargebacks. Digital thumbprint sounds good right now too. I have no doubt in a year from now things will be very different, whatever happens. The billing processors (or somebody) needs to do more in terms of tracking a specific surfer and his entry into a site... MORE specifically than we can do right now. If you order a pizza, eat half of it and then decide you want your money back for whatever reason, its not gonna happen as you already ate half the fucking pizza. Even though we are smut peddlers we are entitled to rights.... especially Americans. Business is business and I suppose I have to have some hope that since they are finally treating us webmasters like a "real business", that we will gain more rights in this game as well.

10-05-2002, 12:03 PM	#11
Carrie Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Virgin - nee Posts: 3,162	Well, it might be a slow way to do it, and could take a while, but I think that a nice "Please explain why you charged back the amount you paid to enter our site" letter, complete with login times and dates, and amount spent on the site each time, sent to the chargeback person's home would certainly end his reign of joining and then charging back. Might end his marriage too, but that's his fucking problem - if he's got a wife there's got to be some reason he's surfing the porn rather than boning the wife. Think of each letter sent out as one less chargeback fucker that's ever going to do that again. We all benefit. Take 'em down one at a time; it's slow, but if it's the only option we have... why the fuck not?

10-05-2002, 12:05 PM	#12
Carrie Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Virgin - nee Posts: 3,162	PS - I think the idea of the collection agency's addresses and phone numbers with a warning about chargebacks being reported to the credit bureus (sp?) is a fucking fantastic idea.

10-05-2002, 03:55 PM	#18
cherrylula lol Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 15,969	yeah I figured it would not necessarily fly... but who knows what will happen down the line.