How does it work with forclosures in US? - GoFuckYourself.com

greg80 · 02-05-2008, 12:29 PM

I was checking some realestate in Florida. It's real cheap now for us in Europe with low US$ and all.

I don't understand how forclosures work. For example I am looking at an realestate that is currently under Lis pendens (papers filed for the bank to get the ownership of realestate I guess).

It says that The estimated loan balance is $102000. Does that mean you pay the bank the remaining 102000$ and you get the house??? What about the guy that the house is taken from?

Peaches · 02-05-2008, 12:40 PM

Too many variables to answer in a post. Here's a link with several articles that might help you in getting some info:

http://homebuying.about.com/od/4clos...hort_Sales.htm

rowan · 02-05-2008, 12:40 PM

I don't know about the USA specifically but I've heard that banks don't really try too hard to get a good price at mortgagee auctions, they just want to cover what they're owed and get it off the books.

If there's a difference between the sale price and what is owed to the bank then the borrower would probably receive it.

Wouldn't it suck if the bank foreclosed on your house AND its value had dropped enough that you actually owed the bank more than it was worth...

warlock5 · 02-05-2008, 02:15 PM

http://www.realestateabc.com/homeguide/reo.htm

Tom_PM · 02-05-2008, 02:22 PM

They'll have a public auction and you can bid on properties like that. Law says they must publicize the time and place, usually a tiny newspaper ad in the classified section for that. Maybe try the google for that town's newspaper or somethin.
Thats 100% of my knowledge, lol. good luck though.

greg80 · 02-05-2008, 02:55 PM

thanks guys! I find it really strange for realestates to be listed like that, saying how much money the guy owns to the bank. Why does that metter, when the thing is going on an auction anyway.

ztik · 02-05-2008, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greg80

thanks guys! I find it really strange for realestates to be listed like that, saying how much money the guy owns to the bank. Why does that metter, when the thing is going on an auction anyway.

I think thats usually around what the auction will start at. Not 100% sure though

Also, sometimes you can pay off their loan and take ownership of the house through a quit claim (sp?) dead. That will make its so they don't have a forclusure on their record (I think). Not really sure lol

slapass · 02-05-2008, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greg80

thanks guys! I find it really strange for realestates to be listed like that, saying how much money the guy owns to the bank. Why does that metter, when the thing is going on an auction anyway.

because the bank usually bids that amount right away. So if the house is worth 125k and the loan is 100k the bank bids 100k to start it off and it is even stupider as they do the same thing if the loan is 150k.

Peaches · 02-05-2008, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greg80

thanks guys! I find it really strange for realestates to be listed like that, saying how much money the guy owns to the bank. Why does that metter, when the thing is going on an auction anyway.

Because many foreclosures are sold before they hit the courthouse steps for auction. Even if it does go to auction I want to know 1. what the property is worth 2. what is owed on the property. Same with tax lien sales.

Dennis Rodman · 02-05-2008, 03:10 PM

A good way to do such a thing is to contact the current homeowner. You can find out the homeowner as long as you have the address by going to the state or county's tax website and/or courthouse. Contact the owner and ask what their intentions may be.

If they are going to let the house go anyways to the bank, ask who their lender is. Attempt to make a deal with the homeowner that if the bank will shortsell the home, you will throw him a bone (Like 5k). The bonus will also be a great incentive to have him work in your favor with his own bank, because most likely the guy is broke or near broke and will need another place to live after he gets the boot. Money will most likely grease the gears of getting all of the inside information that you need. Of course make this contingent upon the deal going through.

So for instance, home A is going through the foreclosure process. Steve (the homeowner), owes Bank of America $150,000 on the remainder of the note. The house is say worth $250,000.

Contact Bank Of America and let them know that you would like to purchase this home outright for what the lendee owes them. Let them know you are a cash buyer and can close quickly hence saving them the enormous cost and hassle of hiring lawyers and going through the legal processes of foreclosure. They may even stew on it a week or two, and they might even counter offer. No big deal... roll with it. If it's not for you just move on to the next.

More than once this has worked for people and it is worth a shot. Good luck.

rowan · 02-05-2008, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis Rodman

So for instance, home A is going through the foreclosure process. Steve (the homeowner), owes Bank of America $150,000 on the remainder of the note. The house is say worth $250,000.

Contact Bank Of America and let them know that you would like to purchase this home outright for what the lendee owes them. Let them know you are a cash buyer and can close quickly hence saving them the enormous cost and hassle of hiring lawyers and going through the legal processes of foreclosure. They may even stew on it a week or two, and they might even counter offer. No big deal... roll with it. If it's not for you just move on to the next.

More than once this has worked for people and it is worth a shot. Good luck.

So this means you pay the bank $150k + fees and the homeowner $5k? After paying off $100k worth of the loan (when he was solvent) he's left with $5k cash and no house? Hardly seems fair.

Then again, if I ever thought I'd be getting into that situation I would have had the house on the market well in advance so I could sell it on my terms and come out with at least a bit of cash.

Dennis Rodman · 02-05-2008, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rowan

So this means you pay the bank $150k + fees and the homeowner $5k? After paying off $100k worth of the loan (when he was solvent) he's left with $5k cash and no house? Hardly seems fair.

Then again, if I ever thought I'd be getting into that situation I would have had the house on the market well in advance so I could sell it on my terms and come out with at least a bit of cash.

Yes, I agree but the problem is that he will walk away with ZERO if his home does not sell. Not only that, but his credit rating will be in the toilet which more or less makes it impossible for him to buy anotherh ome anytime in the near future.

Remember, sometimes it's better to bite the bullet and walk away with your credit rating to save your ass then to walk away with beyond nothing and owing the world. It happens every fucking day may it be due to divorce, job loss, drug addiction, etc.

rowan · 02-05-2008, 03:39 PM

What happens if the bank sells for $20k more than he owes? Does he get paid the difference? To my understanding that's how it works in Australia.

spunkmaster · 02-05-2008, 03:45 PM

Most Banks have already written off the bad loans so anything they can get from the house sale/auction is gravy even if it's below the balance due.

I've been told that the dead beats are also trashing their houses because they were scum bags that shouldn't have been approved for the loan anyway. They just stop paying and live for a year rent free until the Bank boards the house up and by then the house is trashed.

These dead beat loans started when Clinton was President and continued under Bush and now we have about a million home owners who should be renting !

rowan · 02-05-2008, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spunkmaster

I've been told that the dead beats are also trashing their houses because they were scum bags that shouldn't have been approved for the loan anyway. They just stop paying and live for a year rent free until the Bank boards the house up and by then the house is trashed.

Maybe greg80 should think twice about buying USA homes from Europe

sandman! · 02-05-2008, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rowan

What happens if the bank sells for $20k more than he owes? Does he get paid the difference? To my understanding that's how it works in Australia.

this is true but you have to remember if the house is worth much more then is owed the owner would sell it and walk away with something if its close to what he owed he is fucked because of all the late fee's and penalties of missing payments so the bank might get 20k more then was owed before the owner started missing payments but once they tack on some fee's the 20k would be gone.

pussyluver · 02-05-2008, 05:53 PM

Laws vary state to state.

With what I have seen locally, banks are greedy and trying to get market or above market no matter what is owed....

A tax sale is different that a foreclosure. Posts in the thread seem to confuse the two.

Peaches · 02-05-2008, 06:07 PM

Tax sales on homes rarely make it to the courthouse because the taxes owed are rarely more than the house is worth.

What you have to remember when buying foreclosures is that "someone" is saying the house is worth $250K in the above example and the owner owes $150K. Common sense would tell you that the owner would sell the house for $200K if those numbers were accurate and walk out with a clean credit report and $50K in cash.

The bigger possibility is that the house is NOT worth $250K and probably isn't even worth $150K. Again, if it was worth $150K at least the homeowner could sell it and walk away with clear credit.

So....more than likely you're paying $150K for a house that isn't worth that much. What flippers have done in the past is buy that $150K house, put relatively inexpensive $25K worth of improvements into it by buying things in bulk, getting deals with contractors, etc., then sell it for $200K. But flippers these days are hurting in the RE market too.

Personally I don't touch houses. If a house is in foreclosure you can bet the people living there are going to strip that sucker of anything valuable. I like land ;)

Peaches · 02-05-2008, 06:08 PM

BTW, it isn't something I'd try to do internationally. IMO if you're going to buy foreclosures you need to KNOW the area. A lot.

rowan · 02-06-2008, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peaches

Personally I don't touch houses. If a house is in foreclosure you can bet the people living there are going to strip that sucker of anything valuable. I like land ;)

Land is something I'm interested in but apart from leasing it out for grazing I'm finding it hard to figure out how to make it anything close to a cash positive investment?

We own a block of land that we're hoping to build on, but if we do end up selling, then we can claim it as an investment and get a tax rebate... but to do this deliberately hardly seems worth it since we'd only walk away with a net amount of maybe $10k, but that's after 2 years of having to pay a mortgage every month... it's not just hands off...

Got any generic tips? I'm in Australia so I'm no competition. ;)

AdultB2B · 02-07-2008, 12:54 AM

This stuff usually goes to auction and is sold at pennies on the dollar. You don't have to pay the loan balance. The bank doesn't expect or care if they get their investment back.

GatorB · 02-07-2008, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HotHardCash

This stuff usually goes to auction and is sold at pennies on the dollar. You don't have to pay the loan balance. The bank doesn't expect or care if they get their investment back.

That's bullshit. 90% of the time it's the bank buying the house back at auction. Then they try to sell it.

After Shock Media · 02-07-2008, 01:22 AM

There is a lot of confusion going on between property tax sales, lien sales, and foreclosures.

Banks typically do not want to own any houses. Typically the auction is set at the price the bank or title owner owes. This can be more or less than the property is worth. Typically up until midnight the night of the auction a property owner can pay that balance and keep the house otherwise on the block it goes. Then each state has rules it follows on what to do if nobody bids at the minimum price owed and how to handle the next drop in price and so forth. It very well will just not be sold that day.

Properties not sold land in the hands of real estate companies that try to sell it for the bank.

At no times does the bank need to buy it back. The bank is whom owns it anyhow and is trying to liquidate it. Then there is a whole hierarchy of how other mortgages, liens, and taxes fall into place and the laws behind them.

Peaches · 02-07-2008, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

There is a lot of confusion going on between property tax sales, lien sales, and foreclosures.

Banks typically do not want to own any houses. Typically the auction is set at the price the bank or title owner owes. This can be more or less than the property is worth. Typically up until midnight the night of the auction a property owner can pay that balance and keep the house otherwise on the block it goes. Then each state has rules it follows on what to do if nobody bids at the minimum price owed and how to handle the next drop in price and so forth. It very well will just not be sold that day.

Properties not sold land in the hands of real estate companies that try to sell it for the bank.

At no times does the bank need to buy it back. The bank is whom owns it anyhow and is trying to liquidate it. Then there is a whole hierarchy of how other mortgages, liens, and taxes fall into place and the laws behind them.

If you have a close relationship with your bank you can also buy it out before it goes to auction.

As far as land, I've been buying lots in subdivisions. I bought several at tax lien auctions but over the past few years the owners have gotten smart and figured out their property is worth a whole lot more than the taxes owed so there haven't been any in my subdivision for at least 3 years. The last one I bought for $1K and sold for $50K. Lots more profit and less work than pr0n

Right now the properties I have I bought from the owners so the profits won't be as good, but I'll still make money when I sell. I have builders contacting me at least once a month trying to buy 2 sets I have now.

woj · 02-07-2008, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis Rodman

A good way to do such a thing is to contact the current homeowner. You can find out the homeowner as long as you have the address by going to the state or county's tax website and/or courthouse. Contact the owner and ask what their intentions may be.

If they are going to let the house go anyways to the bank, ask who their lender is. Attempt to make a deal with the homeowner that if the bank will shortsell the home, you will throw him a bone (Like 5k). The bonus will also be a great incentive to have him work in your favor with his own bank, because most likely the guy is broke or near broke and will need another place to live after he gets the boot. Money will most likely grease the gears of getting all of the inside information that you need. Of course make this contingent upon the deal going through.

So for instance, home A is going through the foreclosure process. Steve (the homeowner), owes Bank of America $150,000 on the remainder of the note. The house is say worth $250,000.

Contact Bank Of America and let them know that you would like to purchase this home outright for what the lendee owes them. Let them know you are a cash buyer and can close quickly hence saving them the enormous cost and hassle of hiring lawyers and going through the legal processes of foreclosure. They may even stew on it a week or two, and they might even counter offer. No big deal... roll with it. If it's not for you just move on to the next.

More than once this has worked for people and it is worth a shot. Good luck.

That's kinda a bet example, if he has $100k equity in the house, he is going to sell the house himself...

The main reasons you might get houses cheaper on foreclosures is because you take on more risk and have to deal with way more drama... There is some $$ to be made, but don't think you will get $250k house for $150k....

Barefootsies · 02-07-2008, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peaches

Too many variables to answer in a post. Here's a link with several articles that might help you in getting some info:

http://homebuying.about.com/od/4clos...hort_Sales.htm

gruvr777 · 02-07-2008, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spunkmaster

Most Banks have already written off the bad loans so anything they can get from the house sale/auction is gravy even if it's below the balance due.

I've been told that the dead beats are also trashing their houses because they were scum bags that shouldn't have been approved for the loan anyway. They just stop paying and live for a year rent free until the Bank boards the house up and by then the house is trashed.

These dead beat loans started when Clinton was President and continued under Bush and now we have about a million home owners who should be renting !

Most of these people are not dead beats in my experience. Most were preyed upon by predatory lenders with bad loans. Even when the people had good credit and income the lenders tried to give them sub prime loans. When the people were exited, and uneducated about the process it worked.
A few lenders tried this with my girlfriend. 0% loans where she would never own the house, introductory 1% loans that after a year keep going up in interest. I was able to find her a good fixed loan otherwise whe would be packing right now too. One of those lenders was her friends boyfriend!
Other people got greedy with refinances, and got caught up in the housing bubble.
Here in Stockton Ca. we have one of the highest forclosure rates in the country.

gruvr777 · 02-07-2008, 02:50 PM

ps. Here in California you cannot stay a year rent free. 1st of all the longest you can expect to stay, even if you file answers to all of the unlawful detainer complaints is 3 months. Otherwise if you dont your out in 5 days (the first request), or 1 month (2nd request). Then your in court after 3 months, and the sherrif helps you leave a few days after that.
Also "rent free" is not accurate either since the banks lawyers are going to sue you for the unpaid "rent", as well as it's within their rights to request court costs.
It's really a tragedy for families, as well as the larger economy. Caused by bad government financial policy, and unsrcupuluos lenders.

Peaches · 02-07-2008, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gruvr777

Caused by bad government financial policy, and unsrcupuluos lenders.

Yeah, let's not blame the people who were buying houses with zero down, interest only loans, adjustable rates because they just KNEW they'd be making more money by the time the rates went up, etc.

I have what is considered a "subprime" mortgage because it's a no-doc. But I actually READ what I was signing and put down 20% and knew that it was smarter to get a fixed rate now than to guess on what the rate would go up to later.

gruvr777 · 02-07-2008, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peaches

Yeah, let's not blame the people who were buying houses with zero down, interest only loans, adjustable rates because they just KNEW they'd be making more money by the time the rates went up, etc.

I have what is considered a "subprime" mortgage because it's a no-doc. But I actually READ what I was signing and put down 20% and knew that it was smarter to get a fixed rate now than to guess on what the rate would go up to later.

I don't completely disagree with that. Like I said. Most of the people that I knew were uneducated about the whole process. And were tempted to take those types of loans in a market that was skyrocketing. They thought they would never be able to own a house if they didn't try then. I researched for months before I bought my house, and I had the finances and credit rating.
Some of the lenders that I spoke to were just incredible cons, and scammers. They still tried to give me bad loans and tried to dress them up to look good.
One even got fired for actually giving me less on a refi than I was promised in the loan, and tried to explain it away with a convoluted explaination of fee's and credits from my previous lender. Never ansered my calls, and avoided me till I found his supervisor. Bottom line, He lost his job and I recieved a check for the remainder from the lender. New century<--- Scammers.

02-05-2008, 12:29 PM	#1
greg80 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,644	How does it work with forclosures in US? I was checking some realestate in Florida. It's real cheap now for us in Europe with low US$ and all. I don't understand how forclosures work. For example I am looking at an realestate that is currently under Lis pendens (papers filed for the bank to get the ownership of realestate I guess). It says that The estimated loan balance is $102000. Does that mean you pay the bank the remaining 102000$ and you get the house??? What about the guy that the house is taken from? __________________ Say no to GoDaddy and high renewal prices! Go with NameSilo - FREE private whois for life, $8.99 regstrations and renewals. Free redirects, emails, great control panel and more! NameSilo rocks!

02-05-2008, 02:22 PM	#5
Tom_PM Porn Meister Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 16,443	They'll have a public auction and you can bid on properties like that. Law says they must publicize the time and place, usually a tiny newspaper ad in the classified section for that. Maybe try the google for that town's newspaper or somethin. Thats 100% of my knowledge, lol. good luck though. __________________ 43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.

02-05-2008, 02:55 PM	#6
greg80 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,644	thanks guys! I find it really strange for realestates to be listed like that, saying how much money the guy owns to the bank. Why does that metter, when the thing is going on an auction anyway. __________________ Say no to GoDaddy and high renewal prices! Go with NameSilo - FREE private whois for life, $8.99 regstrations and renewals. Free redirects, emails, great control panel and more! NameSilo rocks!

02-05-2008, 03:45 PM	#14
spunkmaster Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 2,052	Most Banks have already written off the bad loans so anything they can get from the house sale/auction is gravy even if it's below the balance due. I've been told that the dead beats are also trashing their houses because they were scum bags that shouldn't have been approved for the loan anyway. They just stop paying and live for a year rent free until the Bank boards the house up and by then the house is trashed. These dead beat loans started when Clinton was President and continued under Bush and now we have about a million home owners who should be renting ! __________________

02-07-2008, 12:54 AM	#21
AdultB2B Adult Site Broker Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 1,416	This stuff usually goes to auction and is sold at pennies on the dollar. You don't have to pay the loan balance. The bank doesn't expect or care if they get their investment back. __________________ Adult Site Broker - The Ethical Broker ASB Cash Adult Site Broker Talk

02-05-2008, 12:40 PM	#2
Peaches Old broad Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Away Posts: 13,933	Too many variables to answer in a post. Here's a link with several articles that might help you in getting some info: http://homebuying.about.com/od/4clos...hort_Sales.htm

02-05-2008, 12:40 PM	#3
rowan Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 17,393	I don't know about the USA specifically but I've heard that banks don't really try too hard to get a good price at mortgagee auctions, they just want to cover what they're owed and get it off the books. If there's a difference between the sale price and what is owed to the bank then the borrower would probably receive it. Wouldn't it suck if the bank foreclosed on your house AND its value had dropped enough that you actually owed the bank more than it was worth...

02-05-2008, 02:15 PM	#4
warlock5 Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Uranus Posts: 2,808	http://www.realestateabc.com/homeguide/reo.htm

02-05-2008, 03:10 PM	#10
Dennis Rodman So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,060	A good way to do such a thing is to contact the current homeowner. You can find out the homeowner as long as you have the address by going to the state or county's tax website and/or courthouse. Contact the owner and ask what their intentions may be. If they are going to let the house go anyways to the bank, ask who their lender is. Attempt to make a deal with the homeowner that if the bank will shortsell the home, you will throw him a bone (Like 5k). The bonus will also be a great incentive to have him work in your favor with his own bank, because most likely the guy is broke or near broke and will need another place to live after he gets the boot. Money will most likely grease the gears of getting all of the inside information that you need. Of course make this contingent upon the deal going through. So for instance, home A is going through the foreclosure process. Steve (the homeowner), owes Bank of America $150,000 on the remainder of the note. The house is say worth $250,000. Contact Bank Of America and let them know that you would like to purchase this home outright for what the lendee owes them. Let them know you are a cash buyer and can close quickly hence saving them the enormous cost and hassle of hiring lawyers and going through the legal processes of foreclosure. They may even stew on it a week or two, and they might even counter offer. No big deal... roll with it. If it's not for you just move on to the next. More than once this has worked for people and it is worth a shot. Good luck.

02-05-2008, 03:39 PM	#13
rowan Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 17,393	What happens if the bank sells for $20k more than he owes? Does he get paid the difference? To my understanding that's how it works in Australia.

02-05-2008, 05:53 PM	#17
pussyluver Clueless OleMan Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: ICQ - 169903487 Posts: 11,009	Laws vary state to state. With what I have seen locally, banks are greedy and trying to get market or above market no matter what is owed.... A tax sale is different that a foreclosure. Posts in the thread seem to confuse the two.

02-05-2008, 06:07 PM	#18
Peaches Old broad Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Away Posts: 13,933	Tax sales on homes rarely make it to the courthouse because the taxes owed are rarely more than the house is worth. What you have to remember when buying foreclosures is that "someone" is saying the house is worth $250K in the above example and the owner owes $150K. Common sense would tell you that the owner would sell the house for $200K if those numbers were accurate and walk out with a clean credit report and $50K in cash. The bigger possibility is that the house is NOT worth $250K and probably isn't even worth $150K. Again, if it was worth $150K at least the homeowner could sell it and walk away with clear credit. So....more than likely you're paying $150K for a house that isn't worth that much. What flippers have done in the past is buy that $150K house, put relatively inexpensive $25K worth of improvements into it by buying things in bulk, getting deals with contractors, etc., then sell it for $200K. But flippers these days are hurting in the RE market too. Personally I don't touch houses. If a house is in foreclosure you can bet the people living there are going to strip that sucker of anything valuable. I like land ;)

02-05-2008, 06:08 PM	#19
Peaches Old broad Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Away Posts: 13,933	BTW, it isn't something I'd try to do internationally. IMO if you're going to buy foreclosures you need to KNOW the area. A lot.

02-07-2008, 01:22 AM	#23
After Shock Media It's coming look busy Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn". Posts: 35,299	There is a lot of confusion going on between property tax sales, lien sales, and foreclosures. Banks typically do not want to own any houses. Typically the auction is set at the price the bank or title owner owes. This can be more or less than the property is worth. Typically up until midnight the night of the auction a property owner can pay that balance and keep the house otherwise on the block it goes. Then each state has rules it follows on what to do if nobody bids at the minimum price owed and how to handle the next drop in price and so forth. It very well will just not be sold that day. Properties not sold land in the hands of real estate companies that try to sell it for the bank. At no times does the bank need to buy it back. The bank is whom owns it anyhow and is trying to liquidate it. Then there is a whole hierarchy of how other mortgages, liens, and taxes fall into place and the laws behind them. __________________ [email protected] ICQ:135982156 AIM: Aftershockmed1a MSN: [email protected]

02-07-2008, 02:50 PM	#28
gruvr777 Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 306	ps. Here in California you cannot stay a year rent free. 1st of all the longest you can expect to stay, even if you file answers to all of the unlawful detainer complaints is 3 months. Otherwise if you dont your out in 5 days (the first request), or 1 month (2nd request). Then your in court after 3 months, and the sherrif helps you leave a few days after that. Also "rent free" is not accurate either since the banks lawyers are going to sue you for the unpaid "rent", as well as it's within their rights to request court costs. It's really a tragedy for families, as well as the larger economy. Caused by bad government financial policy, and unsrcupuluos lenders. __________________ Nubiles.net The Webs Hottest Teens!!