nick3131

Ok so every other thread is xtube this tube that yadda yadda.

Everyone complains how because those sites are stealing content the conversions are going (or eventually WILL go to shit).

But the problem is not content theft. Content theft is just a small fraction of the problem. At the end of the day its illegal and there are ways of dealing with it.

Whats the real problem? Why are the conversions so much worse today then they were 10 years ago.

Simple....... FREE PORN.

Just think 10 (or more) years ago if you wanted to see any kind of porn on the internet you had to pay for it. You don't go to a porn DVD store where they have dvd players and private booths where you can sample all the porn you want without making any type of purchase. Why? because its bad business.

TGPs, MGPs, Tubes too, they all give out free porn and its perfectly OK because they are allowed to. Its the industry standard and nobody ever mentions it. We just kinda learned how to live with it.

Am I a hypocrit... Me and the company I work for have to compete, we give out just as much free porn to the affiliates as the guy next to us. But that doesn't make the issue go away.

Just my 2 cents. I know most of you have ADD and never made it past the first paragraph. But for those of you who have, something to think about.

__________________

nick3131

before anyone else has a chance to post this

__________________

BradM

if this thread was made 5 years ago you would have been a revolutionary.

nick3131

TGPs have been around longer then that

__________________

Yngwie

the problem with Tube sites is not that the content in free even though it is a small part, but it's the fact that they give out free FULL length movies. If all it was, was 1 to 2 minute clips it would all be good, but that's not the case.

__________________
ICQ: 16544251 - Skype: gator37 @ eastlink.ca - email: yngwie @ isys.ca

mike-al

Uhgm before the intertubeweb there was a thing called BBS's and free porn was there before the net.. so ughmm BULLSHIT, you gave free porn for traffic, now you have a problem with traffic again, so you blame the free porn empire you created.. if anything blame yourselfs.. I have always stated free porn with NO LEASH is the industry's doom.... There's a big difference between leashed free porn and unleased free porn

__________________
Delete this account, i am done here

nick3131

In my opinion.... and u know their like assholes we all have one.... Take away tubes giving out full scenes and you improve conversions GLOBALLY by maybe 5% (and im being generous)... you take away FREE PORN and you improve conversions 1000%... you suddenly have a situation where the demand is higher then the supply (because all the free porn is essentially supply and yet we still manage to make $), which I don't need to teach you is good for everyone in this biz.

__________________

BT

cam sites make the real money

__________________

IS Prime Hosting Bald Head Shine "BT" The American Dream, baby!
" THE HOST WITH THE MOST!"



My ICQ 122994792

nick3131

The noobs didnt know bout BBS's. There will always be a % of surfers that never have to pay for shit simply because they know avenues to get it for free. You will never get rid of that.

__________________

TidalWave

i know tons of people that dont need anything but an mgp to blow their load

the short 10 second clip is all thats needed. put windows media player on auto-replay and you are good to go.
THAT is what is fucking up the industry.

you want to jack off? just go to al4a.com and find a nice gallery you like and view the clips, blow your load, close the page and you are done.
no need to subscribe to pay sites at all.

the industry needs to go back to images only and let the quality of the content sell your site.
conversions wouldnt drop, surfers would have NO CHOICE but to subscribe, they would jump by 1000%

__________________
www.SwiftNode.com

nick3131

yep you got it

__________________

mike-al

Yeah, someone smash thata auto-reply button with a hammer!

__________________
Delete this account, i am done here

MicDoohan

To turn around and say the problem is that there is already free porn out there so we may as well just say fuck it and let sites steal member content is moronic in the extreme.

the Shemp

there was no masturbation before TGPs....

__________________
i use Vacares...so should you
Submit your picture galleries to my site...Outlaw TGP

madfuck

well... i'll take free porn any day so as long as everyone can deal with it then all's well

VicD

We all know this and we knew it 5 or more years ago but the competition has forced us to give out more and more free porn to attract the surfers...In a couple of years we all say "there's no money in porn" but this time for real

Klen

I personaly preffer shorter clips instead long since i dont have time to waste on long movies.

VicD

The competition also forced (comparison) the athletes to use steroids and more steroids, same pattern, no turning back...

nick3131

sure if you word it like that.

Thats not what I'm saying thou. I just find it appalling that while the industry as a whole gets worked up about issues like Zango and Xtube noone ever bothers to look at the real problem.

__________________

nick3131

You lost me there... You honestly believe that by giving out free porn you're encouraging expenditure?

I understand the logic, you increase the market by bringing more people into it. That is the theoretical defense of the Free Porn system. But its inherently flawed.

__________________

nick3131

So you're saying its a natural progression? I disagree I think its the path we ALL chose.

__________________

xclusive

You honestly believe that giving away 4 to 6 twenty second clips is the same as giving away full scenes or even full dvd's on tube sites?

__________________
I support MediumPimpin.com / Shemp's Outlawtgp.com /

seeric

tube is not the end of paysites.

CyberHustler

nick3131

1) Most clips on tgps are between 20-60 seconds
2) Not saying its the same or that I agree with the practice. All I'm saying is its a far smaller issue then the amount of free content already available that doesn't include the content theft.

Lets put it this way, everyone is arguing and crying and yelling about something that has very little effect on the overall conversions while something that HAS and CONTINUES to destroys conversions never even gets considered.... is all im saying.

__________________

nick3131

Here's all im saying

Lets assume the average conversion for a standard paysite RIGHT NOW is

1:1000

(now I know it all depends on quality of traffic, niche etc etc, lets throw all that out and assume its 1:1000)

Now lets wage a war against tubes that give out full dvd scenes. And lets say we win the war they cease to exist.

Our new and improved conversion ratio is

1:950 (and im being generous here, I bet its really 1:995 or something miniscule)

Now... lets go back to 1:1000 and wage a war on all the free porn that AFFILIATE PROGRAMS WILLINGLY give out to post free of charge on any website. (requires more effort and $ obviously but feasable in the long run)

Your new conversion ratio is...

1:100

So which one should we focus on?

__________________

CIVMatt

nick I posted the EXACT same thing in a thread last week

__________________
Make easy money with Webcams

Sly

Take away cars... no global warming.

__________________
Vacares - Web Hosting, Domains, O365, Security & More - Paxum and BTC Accepted

Windows VPS now available
Great for TSS, Nifty Stats, remote work, virtual assistants, etc.
Click here for more details.

nick3131

You may very well have and I'm glad someone agrees I hardly ever read any boards anymore I likely missed it.

__________________

nick3131

WRONG global warming is caused by the sun

and apples and oranges.

__________________

Robbie

So without TGP's you'd have GREAT conversions! Maybe as high as 1:20 all the time! Problem is you'd only have a handful of people who would even know your site existed. So that 1:20 conversion ratio wouldn't feel so good to a site owner if all he had were a few members.
Yes, the conversions are not as great...but the number of members is. And that's what TGP's have brought to the table. Advertising.
Advertising that a pay site simply can NOT do. Plus branding. You're leaving out a lot of variables in your theory.
Plus you have to remember that 10 years ago there were only a handful of paysites. And they all had the same exact shitty content on them. What was the old joke? That there were only a dozen porn pictures on the whole internet? It was damn near true.
Every paysite was ridiculously lame. They all had the exact same content and the old Pornholio feeds.
You couldn't tell one from another back then, and they didn't retain worth a damn which is why all the "big" companies back then started their business model of throwing popups and circle-jerking traffic back and forth to each other.
Yeah, we made fortunes back then. $40 and $45 PPS was the norm. But it KILLED the business. Surfers got to the point that they simply would NOT click on a banner.
Whose fault was that? Not the TGP. I begged for console free codes. I took lower payouts and only went revshare to get them. That's why the site that I ran for 8 years became one of the most profitable TGP's of all time. Because I built up surfer trust in the name. Same as I do to this very day.
I guess it's all according to your perspective in the business. I've run a content company, TGP's, and now a paysite. So I've damn near seen it all. And when I say "run" I mean I am a one man show. I do everything. So I'm not just spouting.
In today's market...quite frankly the old generic TGP's can't keep up with niche TGP's. And niche TGP's can't keep up with a niche, hand written blog.
When I first opened Claudia-Marie.Com I looked at the stats and saw that ONE site had sent me 36 signups in one day! And I'm not talking about trials. I don't offer trials. These were full paid recurring signups.
The site? Boobster.net That little blog is run by a super nice guy who is in his early twenties. His secret? None. He simply writes his own stuff (no feeds) and caters to big tit lovers.
His site doesn't have 1/100th of the traffic that I've been in control of in the past. But yet it blew away anything I'd ever seen.
As a comparison...I bought a banner spot on The Hun for 3 months. It was worth 7 signups. What a gargantuan waste of money for my paysite.
Targeted traffic is king. And you have to give away small pieces to effectively advertise. I don't even WANT those guys who jerk off in 8 seconds. I want the people who have some money, and who want to be a member of the site. And who I don't have to worry about re-billing. That's why the site has taken off so big.
Of course that is also one of the advantages of running a solo girl niche site. The members are extremely loyal. And most of them have money.
Not sure if I'd want to have to try and work a multi-girl site. What a headache that must be from production right down to marketing and retention. But there are many who are very sucessful at it.
Sorry to ramble...

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

starpimps

i want to punch xtube in the face

__________________
Teen Porn Models / Solo Girls

nick3131

I appreciate your input. I think what you described is a very specific business model that most people never even consider and I agree with just about everything you say.

BUT there's definitely a rift between your opinion and mine... and I think here's the rift.

You assume that... and quoting your exact words
You assume that without TGP's there would be no meaningful way to generate exposure to a paysite.

First we have to think where did all the traffic originally generate. If you take the TGPs and all the other sources of free porn out of the equation you are left with 3 options:
1) search engines
2) other sites that don't give out free content
3) word of mouth or other sources of advertisements

While that seems like a small group it only "seems" small because of the enormous amount of free porn sites that have completely taken over the spotlight. We have stopped thinking about generating traffic by other means and rely on this self destructing method.

__________________

Robbie

Good point.But in the beginning, we all bought the same old Z-Master content and made galleries and hosted them ourselves. Unfortunately the surfer was pissed when they joined the paysite and couldn't find the girl in the gallery that had turned them on.
As far as search engine traffic..yeah. BUT...up until a few years ago everybody was loading up meta tags with misleading keywords and descriptions. You could put the word "football" in and find yourself at a porn site. People got tired of that too.
And then of course there was EMAIL. Jesus Christ....what a huge disaster that ended up being.
I believe that our tgp's became huge quite simply because they turned out to be the best way to advertise.
Just like a football team COULD just run the ball every play. But why not throw a pass?
I'm just not so sure that the ways you're describing would be as effective an advertising tool.
I'm pretty good at advertising and figuring out ways to make money WITHOUT fucking the surfer over or being shady. At least I've been pretty good at making a lot of money for a lot of people I've promoted over the years. And I've seen different fads come and go.
Who knows? Maybe tube sites will be the worst thing that ever happened.
But I doubt it. I see people opening tube sites left and right but none of them are gonna work in my opinion.
The tube site and bit torrent site phenomena has a LOT to do with the social interaction of the surfers uploading the movies. Trust me....as a guy who has spent hours searching for my content to get it pulled down. There are thousands of forums just loaded with guys who do nothing but brag about and earn reputations for uploading the most free porn that they willingly pay for memberships to sites just to get.
They practically live for the pat on the back from their bros on those forums.
I read it all the time. It's how I find my shit and get it pulled down.
That's why all the people jumping up and starting tube sites are going to be sorely disappointed. They think it's just the porn that people are coming to see. But it's not.
It's a whole social phenomena. And a legal tube site that does NOT allow the surfers to upload stolen content doesn't offer the surfer anything special.
It's almost like doing karoake to these surfers. They basically build their "own" pornsites on the upload sites and take credit for it and think they are "famous".
That is the driving force behind those sites. Without those guys, you just have a scripted upload site. A cold and lonely place.
So in my humble opinion...if and when the illegal tube and torrent sites are shut down...the measly tgp/blog will once again prove itself to be the workhorse of traffic and signups.
But that's just my opinion. I'm sure there are many here who can shoot my thoughts all to hell. But that is the business model that I am operating on. So far it's sucessful. And until some type of legal judgement is made upon tube and torrents...I am gonna hang tough and continue working through it.

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

SmokeyTheBear

10 years ago there was tons of free porn on the net , there was never 10+ min videos on webpages for free, thats "part" of the problem.

__________________
hatisblack at yahoo.com

nick3131

appreciate your input man, good read

To be honest I think the content theft practices are much harder to control/fight then people think. Its the internet after all, those guys will always find a way to give out stolen content. It all goes back to the point... we concern ourselves so much with things we can't control that we do nothing about the parts we can

__________________

nick3131

You're probably right, but that still doesn't change the fact that Free Porn is a destructive business model.

__________________

Barefootsies

__________________
Should You Email Your Members?

Link1 | Link2 | Link3

Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

SmokeyTheBear

those arent the sites that are the problem , the biggest tube traffic sites and torrents are fed by people making money. dont be fooled by the "social aspec t" thats just what they want you to believe.

They are fed by automated systems pumping in known stolen content for profit.

There are smaller torrent groups and clubs that DO rip dvd's etc for the sole purpose of credit/rep, but these arent the problem.

__________________
hatisblack at yahoo.com

Barefootsies

Then you would require webmasters to have, or hire, SEO people. Or learn to drive traffic without gallery submits, TGP traffic, free loaders, porn seekers, or whatever.

The point being, people would have to have more skill that just submitting a gallery, and the beer money barons can not longer make their weekend party money so easily.

(Yes. That would be a good thing for the whole)

When you have an industry full of people who do not give a fuck about anything more than their beer money for the weekend. You have an issue right there, and this industry, and online as a whole, is full of them.

Do your Zango, fuck over surfers, bounce them around endless tgp's, install spyware and fuck up their machine. What do you care? They were just some surfer. You got your sign up, click through, stat, traffic, from them.

Next...!

__________________
Should You Email Your Members?

Link1 | Link2 | Link3

Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

nick3131

DING DING DING

Not to mention there would probably be 2-3 times more $ to make since all those guys who are used to surfing for free porn would suddenly have to pull out their CC's (not all but a good enough %)

__________________

Barefootsies

I agree wholeheartedly with you man.

I thought adult was bad, but it's nothing like mainstream. The bar to get into this "business" needs to be raised. When you have a bunch of beer money barons, college kids, and fry cook asshats trying to "get into da biz" with no money, and no longer term concern other than getting paid. You are going to have issues.

That is where the industry (online as a whole) is right now. Essentially you the fry cooks running the asylum.

Sad but true.

__________________
Should You Email Your Members?

Link1 | Link2 | Link3

Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

Robbie

Actually, I tried to tell all the programs I did business with that they should NOT give out content and hosted galleries to everybody. They should only have given it to trusted and proven people.
But instead the free hosted tools are available for every Tom, Dick, and Harry who joins the affiliate program.
Now we have thousands of what I call "Fake" tgps that DO give away all the content without any returns.
Maybe that is where the real problem is at. Programs offering 5% for life to get other "webmasters" to sign up underneath them and then putting big "webmasters" links on the tour pages with promises of making HUGE $$$$'s It didn't take long for everybody to suddenly be an affiliate...as is witnessed right here on GFY many times.
Hell, I've seen surfers join an affiliate program just so they could go right past the tgp/advertiser and just download all the free content to their hard drive.
Maybe that would be a possible solution. A more careful screening of affiliates. For instance we have thousands of affiliates at IOCash. About 10 actually send traffic. 98% of them haven't even logged in in the past 3 years or more. Ridiculous.
There is...and always has been a handful of people who can really work traffic. No reason for everybody else to get hosted galleries.
Remember my earlier post when I talked about that little Boobster.Net blog site?
Well, he has NEVER used any of our hosted tools. Matter of fact, he BOUGHT himself a membership to claudia-marie.com downloaded a few pics for his blog and made his own materials by using his imagination.
Now THAT is a real affiliate.
Get rid of all the surfer/fake affiliates who don't even own a site...and you instantly cut out a ton of that shit.
Then carefully go through the stats and keep the other affiliates that don't have sites but yet still make a lot of signups.
I just thought about this a minute ago.
Could you imagine any other business handing out the keys to the shop to anybody who wanted them?
Hell, if you want to own a franchise you have to meet certain financial and other related qualifications. But yet here I am letting any person that wants to become an affiliate become one.
That's bad business.
This has been a great discussion. Has me thinking. Are we sure this is GFY? LOL!

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

No! Thats impossible!

__________________

Iron Fist

You mean when I was running a BBS all I could do is fog up my monochrome monitor?

__________________
i like waffles

Iron Fist

__________________
i like waffles

nick3131

LOL I hardly ever post here because I seem to never be able to get a serious discussion going. I appreciate all your input.

I honestly think that if you completely got rid of the TGPs most people who are experienced marketers in this industry would not only survive but prosper from the change. Most of them were clever to begin with and would learn to generate traffic through other means. TGPs and free content are by far not the only means of advertising on the internet. Just my 2 cents.

__________________

Helix

Bingo
that's "the biggest part" of the problem imo.

__________________
Free jscott !!!
Free OneHungLo !!!
Free Baddog !!!

the Shemp

nick, i list free porn to make money...the free porn is supplied by the affiliate programs and trust me, i never twisted anyones arm for them to supply it..
...in the old days when webmasters had to actually buy content, there was a lot less of it around and also a lot less webmasters... because it actually cost a few bucks upfront, to get into the business....

free hosting, free content, free domains, free scripts, free advice, free traffic....and for 9 years every new webmaster wanted to be theHUN ....thats what has fucked up the business...

__________________
i use Vacares...so should you
Submit your picture galleries to my site...Outlaw TGP

nick3131

I'm glad we agree.

__________________