Tube sites = the new TGPs

[SykkBoy]

Wih all of this bickering over tube sites, it really seems like the outcry against TGPs when they first came out...then everyone started getting onboard and now every program has hosted galleries...tube sites are the same way....they'll become (and already have to a point) the new marketing tool everyone uses. Soon all programs will have tube content (as some already do) and it will evolve and suddenly all of tube sites will be filled with sponsor-only content...and everyone will have their own hosted tube sites...

The next evolution from tube sites will be to make porn almost a loss leader...since TGPs started requiring 8 pics to get listed and moved to 10 and now most are 12-15. That gave way to MPGs where people started posting 10 second clips, now it often takes 20 second clips. That's given way to tube sites that give away even longer clips. The evolution keeps on keeping on...

[seeric]

I am a cam model now. Catch my show today. Live!

LOL.

[CaptainHowdy]

Originally Posted by A1R3K

I am a cam model now. Catch my show today. Live!

LOL.

!

[SykkBoy]

Originally Posted by A1R3K

I am a cam model now. Catch my show today. Live!

LOL.

haha, that's the next evolutionary step ;-)
we'll all have to start doing on demand strip teases for affiliates and surfers alike ;-)

[SmokeyTheBear]

oranges are the new apples

they are exactly the same

soon all apples will be oranges because they are the same..

i remember when everyone hated apples, now you see apples everywhere. same thing with oranges, everyone hates them , but its the new thing mang.. people are just stuck in the apples past and can't see the fruit through the cocktail.

rock on oranges..

[SykkBoy]

mmmmmmmmmm, oranges....

[SmokeyTheBear]

Originally Posted by SykkBoy2

mmmmmmmmmm, oranges....

exactly ...

down with apples.. unless yer old skewl

[Oracle Porn]

[Oracle Porn]

[Socks]

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by A1R3K

I am a cam model now. Catch my show today. Live!

LOL.

Can i get a fan sign?

[sortie]

Testing testing 1,2,3.....

[Dwreck]

I agree Lance! Well said. I'm taking notes and love this industry for that reason.

[Brad]

I see what you are saying, but I disagree for one very big and important reason:

Tube sites as we see them now rely not on content provided by affiliate programs but rather "user" submitted content that for the most part is either "amateur" home movie style porn, or more often than not full movies ripped directly from programs. Because of the fact that there is so much content and the fact that this content is not edited nor displayed in a manner that at least attempts to convince a surfer to signup for a site. Therefore in my mind these tube style sites sere little purpose to our industry.
From an advertising perspective, tube sites are for the most part a waste of money. What is my incentive as a sponsor, to pay money to have a banner or whatever up on a site that's sole purpose is to allow "users" to share their stolen content with other users? Not to mention that these sites are from what I have seen seem to thing that their advertising space is very very valuable which is simply not the case in my opinion.
I think you are on the right track in thinking that tube sites will soon be the next tgp. However, for that to happen, the owners of these sites are going to have to start working in cooperation with the sponsors in figuring out how best to monetize their traffic. I would imagine the start of that would be to go with shorter clips and perhaps pops to tour pages at the end of clips or something along those lines. Until the tube site owners start to design their pages with the intent of selling memberships (like a FGH does), tube sites are a completely different entity which is doing more to hurt the industry than help it. If you were really to think about it for more than lets say a nanosecond, you would realize that under the current model, tube style sites are basically the kissing cousin of torrent sites.

[fris]

tube sites are easier to update

[xxxice]

The interesting point in this thread is the idea that that porn itself will be a loss leader. Not sure that I am taking it in the context that you were getting at but to me it seems like the content itself will be like best buy selling cd's at a loss. Or itunes selling songs for a low price to sell ipods. It is like one huge upsell to cams, dating, sex toys, and tangible products.

I am not sure this sounds like a promising future. However you do see companies putting thir tv shows etc. on the web for free and supposedly the subscription based newspaper sites are also following suit. This being said, I forgot to include using advertisers as a potential "upsell". As of now you do see lots of these "tube" sites with this attempt at an income stream as well.

As a sponsor I don't know how I would feel about my content being shown; with the real purpose of it being shown; being to sell other things. Not to say this has not been going on to an extent for years. For example when you would see a gallery made by a site owner for example that would have a gallery linking to a site, but also lets say dating ads at the top of the page. But now adays it is try to sell anything and everything with and or, "but" the site as well.

Some major sponsors have already caught on to this and have just created dating or cams sites of their own. This way even if their content is going around for free they can be still getting members to their other "upsell" sites. IE their content could be on a page with no links to the appropriate website lets say the full video; but right at the top is a link to their dating site. So although they may be losing the porn membership sale at least they will still have the potential for the dating one.

Anyways just rambling and not going back and making sure that everything is typed perfect or correct. So flame away at my poor use of grammar

[SykkBoy]

Originally Posted by Adult Lounge - Brad

I see what you are saying, but I disagree for one very big and important reason:

Tube sites as we see them now rely not on content provided by affiliate programs but rather "user" submitted content that for the most part is either "amateur" home movie style porn, or more often than not full movies ripped directly from programs. Because of the fact that there is so much content and the fact that this content is not edited nor displayed in a manner that at least attempts to convince a surfer to signup for a site. Therefore in my mind these tube style sites sere little purpose to our industry.
From an advertising perspective, tube sites are for the most part a waste of money. What is my incentive as a sponsor, to pay money to have a banner or whatever up on a site that's sole purpose is to allow "users" to share their stolen content with other users? Not to mention that these sites are from what I have seen seem to thing that their advertising space is very very valuable which is simply not the case in my opinion.
I think you are on the right track in thinking that tube sites will soon be the next tgp. However, for that to happen, the owners of these sites are going to have to start working in cooperation with the sponsors in figuring out how best to monetize their traffic. I would imagine the start of that would be to go with shorter clips and perhaps pops to tour pages at the end of clips or something along those lines. Until the tube site owners start to design their pages with the intent of selling memberships (like a FGH does), tube sites are a completely different entity which is doing more to hurt the industry than help it. If you were really to think about it for more than lets say a nanosecond, you would realize that under the current model, tube style sites are basically the kissing cousin of torrent sites.

That's actually sort of my point....tube sites will evolve like that. Tube sites are pretty bandwidth intensive so these sites will need additional means of revenue, and that will come from forming partnerships with programs and content producers and some of them already are actually.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by SykkBoy2

That's actually sort of my point....tube sites will evolve like that. Tube sites are pretty bandwidth intensive so these sites will need additional means of revenue, and that will come from forming partnerships with programs and content producers and some of them already are actually.

So in that sense, what you are really saying is that at some point in the future, tube sites may or may not be a new alternative to TGPs. While my point is that there are changes that need to be made to make it happen. How do you know that AFF advertising dollars are not going to continue to keep these sites afloat for another ten years?

In addition to my original post, it is also pertinent to note that all tube sites will need to change their business model for it to be effective otherwise surfers are always going to gravitate to where the content is free and easy to consume.

[Just_in_Support]

Originally Posted by Adult Lounge - Brad

Until the tube site owners start to design their pages with the intent of selling memberships (like a FGH does), tube sites are a completely different entity which is doing more to hurt the industry than help it. If you were really to think about it for more than lets say a nanosecond, you would realize that under the current model, tube style sites are basically the kissing cousin of torrent sites.

I work at XTube daily and send around 300 000 hits per day to different affiliate programs. However if you think that the new user-generated content surfer goes to a tube site with the intention of signing up to a Member site, then you may find yourself stuck in the past.

Take a look at Peep Shows. I'm pretty sure they were saying the same things you've said here: The internet will never work, it will only work in a way that will benefit us. If the 'Net sends people to our Peeps Shows, then it will be viable.

Ask yourself this:
Why do Tubes even need your content when they can go 100% Amateur?

You may want to think of the new paradigms at play here, ill shoot off a couple:
1. The average user does NOT want to pay a monthly fee, for fear of recurring. Don't believe me. Look at Prepaid Cell Phones. Would not exist if people loved using a phone and consistently getting billed every month, some do, when they want the most features, but most dont like bills.

2.The average user does not need 40 Gigs of your content, and spending 39.99 just doesnt justify getting off this second. The average user can only justify this by ripping a whole Member site for future use.

3.The average user is stuck in an "Immediate Gratification"
Most users wanyt porn now. Not after a payment, or after a slew of tour upsells.

4. Most users dont mind paying a small fee for a small portion of porn. Dont think so? My sites sells around 500% more scenes than Full DVDs. A Mainstream example: ITunes.

So theres my two cents on the matter of whether a Tube site is financially viable. Most sites, including all the evil P2P/Torrent Sites, can be financially viable. It is just a matter of monetizing the system by not letting the user assume its "all free"

FYI: XTube sells VOD/Streaming TV/Ad Space to cover the bandwidth. How will you adapt in the future

[SykkBoy]

Originally Posted by Adult Lounge - Brad

So in that sense, what you are really saying is that at some point in the future, tube sites may or may not be a new alternative to TGPs. While my point is that there are changes that need to be made to make it happen. How do you know that AFF advertising dollars are not going to continue to keep these sites afloat for another ten years?

In addition to my original post, it is also pertinent to note that all tube sites will need to change their business model for it to be effective otherwise surfers are always going to gravitate to where the content is free and easy to consume.

Yes, but it's actually already starting to happen. I'm getting hit up more and more each day by guys who have tube sites but want to go the sponsor content route rather than user uploads. They'd rather find ways to send that user to a sponsor or have a chance to at least each time a video is played rather than just have the obligatory dating ads served up by avnads...

[Just_in_Support]

Also, Feel free to read "The Long Tail" by Chris Anderson if you are interested in learning more about how Web 2.0 companies actually work.
hxxp://en[dot]wikipedia[dot]org/wiki/The_Long_Tail

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Just_in_Support

I work at XTube daily and send around 300 000 hits per day to different affiliate programs. However if you think that the new user-generated content surfer goes to a tube site with the intention of signing up to a Member site, then you may find yourself stuck in the past.

Take a look at Peep Shows. I'm pretty sure they were saying the same things you've said here: The internet will never work, it will only work in a way that will benefit us. If the 'Net sends people to our Peeps Shows, then it will be viable.

Ask yourself this:
Why do Tubes even need your content when they can go 100% Amateur?

You may want to think of the new paradigms at play here, ill shoot off a couple:
1. The average user does NOT want to pay a monthly fee, for fear of recurring. Don't believe me. Look at Prepaid Cell Phones. Would not exist if people loved using a phone and consistently getting billed every month, some do, when they want the most features, but most dont like bills.

2.The average user does not need 40 Gigs of your content, and spending 39.99 just doesnt justify getting off this second. The average user can only justify this by ripping a whole Member site for future use.

3.The average user is stuck in an "Immediate Gratification"
Most users wanyt porn now. Not after a payment, or after a slew of tour upsells.

4. Most users dont mind paying a small fee for a small portion of porn. Dont think so? My sites sells around 500% more scenes than Full DVDs. A Mainstream example: ITunes.

So theres my two cents on the matter of whether a Tube site is financially viable. Most sites, including all the evil P2P/Torrent Sites, can be financially viable. It is just a matter of monetizing the system by not letting the user assume its "all free"

FYI: XTube sells VOD/Streaming TV/Ad Space to cover the bandwidth. How will you adapt in the future

This adapting bullshit makes me fucking crazy. 99.9 of tubes are stolen content, they are making money off of others sweat and blood. Thats not a business model, also there is very very little true amatuer content user produced, we all know it tends to belong to someone else used without thier permission.Tube sites think they are the hot new business model great create your own fucking content. Also the evil statement leads me to believe you never had your work used without your permission for someone else to make money.
You wanna know probably whats really going to happen, with more and more full scenes on line easy to access.Governments are going to start to crack down on a level you never couldn't imagine. Then people will bitch and wonder why are they picking on us?

[ry0t]

I believe in the future sites will be a lot more interactive which will require programming. So the average chump who thinks he has a chance starting another lame little porn site will soon see he's up shits creek without a paddle. It takes money if you dont have programming skills.

[Just_in_Support]

I'd say you talk out of your ass tony. Stop spouting stuff to which you know nothing about. XTube has a ver very large Amateur community, aroun 1.4 million verified users making their own porn.
If its 99.9 percent stolen, go find your stolen stuff on our site now. Please have fun. We are Amateur. People Like Amateur, for the most part. If you read a couple blogs on our site, you'll see what the people really think about your commercial gonzo porn. Guess what, for the most part they dont like it. Why? Oversaturation.

[Just_in_Support]

The people i really feel for are the content producers. It cost how much to make thier content, and in the future less and less people buy thier work, because they are to busy making their own porn with their Mini DV and uploading it to XTube

[sortie]

Originally Posted by ry0t

I believe in the future sites will be a lot more interactive which will require programming. So the average chump who thinks he has a chance starting another lame little porn site will soon see he's up shits creek without a paddle. It takes money if you dont have programming skills.

Yeah, but some asshole like me will package the programming into a script and sell it in his sig.

[Just_in_Support]

Originally Posted by sortie

Yeah, but some asshole like me will package the programming into a script and sell it in his sig.

[Adultnet]

Originally Posted by Socks

lol..yep

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Just_in_Support

I'd say you talk out of your ass tony. Stop spouting stuff to which you know nothing about. XTube has a ver very large Amateur community, aroun 1.4 million verified users making their own porn.
If its 99.9 percent stolen, go find your stolen stuff on our site now. Please have fun. We are Amateur. People Like Amateur, for the most part. If you read a couple blogs on our site, you'll see what the people really think about your commercial gonzo porn. Guess what, for the most part they dont like it. Why? Oversaturation.

Really? Well since you invited me to look, without much effort I found a 20 min bangbros clip divided into two parts on your site.
http://pcdnv4.xtube.com/watch_video....cl=P1lLqk1HxQ-
Is it amateurs pretending to be the bangbros?

[SmokeyTheBear]

Originally Posted by Just_in_Support

Most sites, including all the evil P2P/Torrent Sites, can be financially viable.

they are already financially viable . nobody is arguing that

They are financially viable because they profit from stolen content.

Show me a financially viable p2p/torrent site that does not provide stolen content ?

[Just_in_Support]

This person is affiliated with bang bros
They offer 10 minute scenes and I have their affiliate ID and a link that forwards the user to the Bang Bros site,
Care to try again Tony, or were to blinded by your ownb assumptions to see the User Suggested Link

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Just_in_Support

This person is affiliated with bang bros
They offer 10 minute scenes and I have their affiliate ID and a link that forwards the user to the Bang Bros site,
Care to try again Tony, or were to blinded by your ownb assumptions to see the User Suggested Link

Yeah ok ,sure they are.

[SmokeyTheBear]

Originally Posted by Just_in_Support

you'll see what the people really think about your commercial gonzo porn. Guess what, for the most part they dont like it. Why? Oversaturation.

seems like your viewers don't agree. alomst every video on your "most watched" is "commercial gonzo porn "

[Just_in_Support]

hxxp://www[dot]bigmouthfuls[dot]com/t1/pps=tbelle72/join.htm theres the affliate code TONY. Anything else you'd like to dismiss

[SmokeyTheBear]

Originally Posted by tony404

Yeah ok ,sure they are.

i see a bangbros link under the video..

i didnt know they offered long videos for affiliates but thats ok..

[Just_in_Support]

would anyone else like to follow tonys link and click the user suggested link

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Just_in_Support

hxxp://www[dot]bigmouthfuls[dot]com/t1/pps=tbelle72/join.htm theres the affliate code TONY. Anything else you'd like to dismiss

funny watched the first clip to the end didnt say anything about going to the site all it showed was a bunch of banners.That werent bang bros.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Just_in_Support

I work at XTube daily and send around 300 000 hits per day to different affiliate programs. However if you think that the new user-generated content surfer goes to a tube site with the intention of signing up to a Member site, then you may find yourself stuck in the past.

Take a look at Peep Shows. I'm pretty sure they were saying the same things you've said here: The internet will never work, it will only work in a way that will benefit us. If the 'Net sends people to our Peeps Shows, then it will be viable.

Ask yourself this:
Why do Tubes even need your content when they can go 100% Amateur?

You may want to think of the new paradigms at play here, ill shoot off a couple:
1. The average user does NOT want to pay a monthly fee, for fear of recurring. Don't believe me. Look at Prepaid Cell Phones. Would not exist if people loved using a phone and consistently getting billed every month, some do, when they want the most features, but most dont like bills.

2.The average user does not need 40 Gigs of your content, and spending 39.99 just doesnt justify getting off this second. The average user can only justify this by ripping a whole Member site for future use.

3.The average user is stuck in an "Immediate Gratification"
Most users wanyt porn now. Not after a payment, or after a slew of tour upsells.

4. Most users dont mind paying a small fee for a small portion of porn. Dont think so? My sites sells around 500% more scenes than Full DVDs. A Mainstream example: ITunes.

So theres my two cents on the matter of whether a Tube site is financially viable. Most sites, including all the evil P2P/Torrent Sites, can be financially viable. It is just a matter of monetizing the system by not letting the user assume its "all free"

FYI: XTube sells VOD/Streaming TV/Ad Space to cover the bandwidth. How will you adapt in the future

It's kind of funny to me that this is the response that I get from what I think was a pretty accurate portrayal of the relationship between sponsor and tube site (which if you look at the title of the thread and it's original intent you would see that this si the issue being discussed). Besides, xtube is not really the kind of tube site that we are talking about. You are more of a vod company if you ask me.

So to answer your question:
I think people need our content because not everyone like amateur video.

Perhaps you should ask yourself why there are so many genres and niches of porn out there. Never mind, I'll answer for you...because people like variety and people like different things. Show me more than a dozen good quality amateur gang bangs. Show me more than a dozen high quality amateur ass fucking movies. I could go on till the cows come home here. And to validate my point, I am into amateur porn and have seen the vast majority of what is out there since I've been checking it out since 1999, so I know very well what is out there (and on that point, tube sites is not where you find the good amateur content anyways).

Oh wow, what a visionary statement: "Most users don't mind paying a small fee for a small portion of porn." No kidding, that is why we have companies doing video on demand and downloads by scene. It is an attempt to go after the people not interested in doing the recurring billing thing when they only watch pron once in a while. I'm not sure what you consider to be most users, but I think you will find that it is really a very small fraction of porn surfers who ever buy a membership to a site or a scene from a video...just look at your conversion ratios for proof. Even if you are converting at 1:100 (which is unlikely), that is still a whopping 1%. Not sure where you are from, but in my world 1% is not "most", at best it is some.

Now, the other thing that you have to realize is that what you guys are doing and what youporn or redtube (and so on) are doing is very different. When I look at your site I notice that vod is the main focus, where as on these other tube sites, vod is very very secondary. I agree that what you are doing is trying to use the tube format to sell vod while having free amateur content to keep surfers coming back for more. That, like I said, is very different from most of the other tube sites.

FYI. You don't need to tell me what you do. I do some research first so that I know what I am talking about. You think I would reply to your thread without looking at your site? For that matter, you think I don't know what your site is about before you even posted here. No, I pay attention to what is going on.

[tranza]

Not this subject again................

[Just_in_Support]

Thank you for you curt, yet fair response Brad. I respect that of you. I just am not a fan of sweeping generalizations.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear

i see a bangbros link under the video..

i didnt know they offered long videos for affiliates but thats ok..

dont see one here I see a banner for redlightcenter.com right under it and when I click on the video it makes it bigger.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by SykkBoy2

Yes, but it's actually already starting to happen. I'm getting hit up more and more each day by guys who have tube sites but want to go the sponsor content route rather than user uploads. They'd rather find ways to send that user to a sponsor or have a chance to at least each time a video is played rather than just have the obligatory dating ads served up by avnads...

Me too. It was only a matter of time till the smart guys realized their faults. I had assumed that these people were running at an intentional loss for the purpose of branding their url. Looks like I am going to be proven correct in the coming year.

[tony286]

wait now I see it ,it was small Im sorry about that one. I still think your mighty flippant about others incomes.Also I said in my first posts 99.9 of tubes sites you assumed that was yours.

[SmokeyTheBear]

Originally Posted by Just_in_Support

would anyone else like to follow tonys link and click the user suggested link

it's very hard to find amongst the huge aff and cam banners. If you did it in reverse and placed banners to the actual sites the content comes from and put teeny tiny aff banner way below the video , then maybe you would understand how its not viable right

[BV]

I must be blind, i still can't find the bangbros link

[Just_in_Support]

um, those ad spot, you know we sell them right
It's viable, no matter what time of the day, or season it is.
As for our Webmaster account, which may go the way of Pornotube, they give us content and we give them traffic in return. Most of our Webmasters don't complain about having their affiliate code on a page that is view so many times.

[EuroRev_Stacey]

Very interesting thread, bookmarked!

[Just_in_Support]

Originally Posted by tony404

wait now I see it ,it was small Im sorry about that one. I still think your mighty flippant about others incomes.Also I said in my first posts 99.9 of tubes sites you assumed that was yours.

Its all love Tony, I thought you were referring to the content any tube site. Must practice readin comprehension.

[wizzart]

Tube site give tu much porn to surferf it's tru but when fucking green guy request minimum 30 pics on free sites it's all go to hell.

It's to much porn on net. But for good porn allways have costumers.Tube site can convert I will prove that.

[DaddyHalbucks]

The will get sued into oblivion.