over 1%... - GoFuckYourself.com

quiet · 09-22-2002, 02:43 AM

will anyone either admit, or admit to knowing - a site that's average chargeback rate is over 1%? or 2%? more?

sounds crazy to me...

eru · 09-22-2002, 02:48 AM

I bet sites with "free signups" have horrible chargeback rates after the trial converts to membership at $99.99 a month.

[Labret] · 09-22-2002, 02:51 AM

I had one month where I hit 3% back in the beginning. I have not gone over 1% since.

If Ox didnt refund like dirty whores so easy, I am sure they would. Esp back when their servers ran like 386s.

quiet · 09-22-2002, 02:57 AM

interesting......

Brown Bear · 09-22-2002, 03:08 AM

I bet Big Players sites have high chargebacks. Eventually people realize that they are getting rebilled at $49.99/month

frankfortuna · 09-22-2002, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by [Labret]

If Ox didnt refund like dirty whores so easy, I am sure they would. Esp back when their servers ran like 386s.

I will second that Ox has an usually high percentage of chargebacks. Definitely over 1%.

dikkechill · 09-22-2002, 04:31 AM

I had a 100% chargeback ratio at soulcash once, but thats because i only got 1 sale

cya
Dikkechill

Tipsy · 09-22-2002, 06:27 AM

A company producing high chargebacks is causing many problems for everyone. It's not just that the surfer will have trouble 'trusting' an adult site again to join one, they also will not be allowed to join another site using that CC processor.

I had a good example with iBill recently. I was charged twice for something that I shouldn't have been charged at all for. After a few snotty e-mails it was finally resolved with 100% confirmation from iBill that the company in question was at fault and the problem was very much their end. Despite that it now seems iBill have banned my address so I can't use a site that uses iBill. This wasn't even a chargeback just a refund in the end.

If you bear in mind that those who join sites usually join several sites over a period of time rather than just one, to keep losing them to blacklist because they were ripped off in the first place can only damage us all. I fully appreciate that for those getting under 1% most of the chargebacks are from assholes who just don't wanna pay the bill and are no great loss. However the sites getting much higher than that are fucking it up by screwing the surfer. That surfer either wont or cant buy from a site again and is a lost sale not just for that site.

Brad Mitchell · 09-22-2002, 09:30 AM

I have news for you... Much more than 1% of our customers are assholes. I'd say at least 1% are assholes and 1% are theives.... and that puts us at 2% at least! lmao

Quiet, they won't admit it because that would make them 'uncool' to put their necks out. Plenty of people are over 1% and that doesn't necessarily make them bad companies. Fuck, as far as I'm concerned the limit should be 3% or 4% again. Surfers can be motherfuckers. I say this not because I don't like my customers, I do, but because the first year I was in business I had my own merchant accounts and handled all my customer support and billing calls.

Brad

cherrylula · 09-22-2002, 09:36 AM

Ifriends has outrageous chargebacks.

Way more than 1% for sure.

Fletch XXX · 09-22-2002, 09:38 AM

Oh man I wish I had some of the "Customer Service" guiys recorded messages from dealing with my ex employer and them calling and trying to get chargebacks

hahaha

They had women calling asking what charges were on cards etc. We had their ip sitting in live rooms and interative feeds for hours being charged by the minute, yet "It wasnt my husband, he didnt do this."

hahah

funny stuff.

Those were good times.

1999

Brad Mitchell · 09-22-2002, 09:41 AM

I have all kinds of crazy stories... it sure was colorful talking to mid-america on the phone. Don't believe the propoganda, chargebacks are by nature higher than 1% in our business regardless of what your business practices are. You could refund everyone that calls in and I'd bet most merchants would still be higher than 1%. All you need to do is talk to one of the merchant banking consultants to find out what big companies have been through 10 or 20 or more merchant accounts

Brad

Lexxx · 09-22-2002, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eru
I bet sites with "free signups" have horrible chargeback rates after the trial converts to membership at $99.99 a month.

LOL... very True...

Mr.Fiction · 09-22-2002, 12:28 PM

I have a question about chargebacks:

If I am a customer of a site, and I don't like the content after signing up, can I legally charge back? Say I just don't like the content. I know I can probably ask for a refund, but what about charging back? I know it's fraud to charge back if you claim you didn't make the charge, but what about "customer satisfaction" issues - can those legally result in chargebacks?

If so, wouldn't it be easy for people to get 100 people who don't like you together and charge your ass back and lose you your merchant account?

I remember reading about some group of right wingers who attacked a Green or some sort of left leaning site like that - where they got his merchant account or processing shut down. Is it really that easy?

EscortBiz · 09-22-2002, 12:35 PM

When I ran an offline Escort service the charges would show up as "Lees Auto Repair" we use to get calls from women all the time "My husband does not even have a car!" one time this women said "Its a old car why would he spend 600 dollars on that peice of junk!"

Little did they know that he might of not had a vcar but their husbands did get a nice ride and that that 600 dollars spent was not on a peice of junk it was on a hot peice of ASS

Jizar II · 09-22-2002, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EscortBiz
Little did they know that he might of not had a vcar but their husbands did get a nice ride and that that 600 dollars spent was not on a peice of junk it was on a hot peice of ASS

Jayson · 09-22-2002, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction
I have a question about chargebacks:

If I am a customer of a site, and I don't like the content after signing up, can I legally charge back? Say I just don't like the content. I know I can probably ask for a refund, but what about charging back? I know it's fraud to charge back if you claim you didn't make the charge, but what about "customer satisfaction" issues - can those legally result in chargebacks?

If so, wouldn't it be easy for people to get 100 people who don't like you together and charge your ass back and lose you your merchant account?

I remember reading about some group of right wingers who attacked a Green or some sort of left leaning site like that - where they got his merchant account or processing shut down. Is it really that easy?

That might be questionable. Chargebacks are only meant to be for when the transaction wasnt made, non delivery of product etc. So I guess it could be non delivery.

The big thing is the card companies dont care - if you dont have a signature on the credit card transaction they dont even ask a reason. Even with a CVV2 number they dont care - which is wrong because it proves the person had the card, so unless they are reporting it lost too, they should be able to charge it back.

Even with PayPal it is pretty easy to get a chargeback, and they make transactions to your card which you have to verify before you can use it.

Mr.Fiction · 09-22-2002, 03:23 PM

Thanks for the reply Jayson.

One more question. With the new rules, what time frame is Visa going to use to determine your chargeback ratio?

If you have a site that's been around for 4 years, your average is going to be pretty set already over that period of time.

I you start a site tomorrow, and your second sale charges back, you're going to be fucked, but you have such a low number of transactions that you could fix the ratio pretty quick.

Is this an annual average, a monthly average, or a lifetime average of the site that Visa is looking at?

heymatty · 09-22-2002, 03:35 PM

If a guy charges back when he has been rebilled a few times, does that count as 1 chargeback total or 1 chargeback for each separate transaction?

Tipsy · 09-22-2002, 03:40 PM

More than 1% probably are assholes. I used the 1% simply 'cause it was easy and being thrown about. The point made wasn't so much about 1% but that the companies genuinely screwing the surfers (and some of the very big guys are doing it) are fucking up more than just the one sale for them. But then the problem with much of this business has always been that many have the total inability to see long term.

Lexxx · 09-22-2002, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by heymatty
If a guy charges back when he has been rebilled a few times, does that count as 1 chargeback total or 1 chargeback for each separate transaction?

One chargeback.

And a chargeback is only when the transactions were forcefully credited by the issuing bank. Usually billing companies would just refund the money now.

quiet · 09-22-2002, 05:56 PM

about a year's worth of transactions (oct 01 to present). well under 1%.

Fletch XXX · 09-22-2002, 05:57 PM

Nice.

Brown Bear · 09-22-2002, 05:59 PM

Quiet, your low number of chargebacks might also be because your site's monthly charge isn't that high. So its not a huge shock when they see their credit card bill.

wouncie · 09-22-2002, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brown Bear
Quiet, your low number of chargebacks might also be because your site's monthly charge isn't that high. So its not a huge shock when they see their credit card bill.

hhmmmmmmmm, what sites may i ask?

OnTime · 09-23-2002, 03:01 AM

So it sounds like One percent might be possible.

Tipsy · 09-23-2002, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brown Bear
Quiet, your low number of chargebacks might also be because your site's monthly charge isn't that high. So its not a huge shock when they see their credit card bill.

That may be the case but would also help support the fact that many people don't realise how much they're gonna be paying. It's clear on most sites but by no means on all.

AWW - Kevin · 09-23-2002, 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by quiet

about a year's worth of transactions (oct 01 to present). well under 1%.

over $2.45 million nice

SunTzu · 09-23-2002, 09:31 AM

We're under 1% as well, with all the scrub dbases out there it's not that hard.

When someone asks for a refund because it "wasn't them", just send them a polite email saying "no problem, we'll refund your account and cancel your credit card ASAP". I've done that before when we handled our own customer service, it's amazing how fast these idiots turn around.

09-22-2002, 02:43 AM	#1
quiet we'll miss you our friend. RIP Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Fernie, BC Posts: 25,115	over 1%... will anyone either admit, or admit to knowing - a site that's average chargeback rate is over 1%? or 2%? more? sounds crazy to me...

09-22-2002, 02:48 AM	#2
eru Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Hawai'i Posts: 2,612	I bet sites with "free signups" have horrible chargeback rates after the trial converts to membership at $99.99 a month. __________________ <font color="#FFFFFF" size="2" face="Verdana">This thread will self-destruct in 5 seconds.</font><font color="#FFFFFF" face="Verdana"><br> <br> <font size="1">In the meantime, consider hosting with <a href="http://www.choopa.com"><font color="#00FF00">Choopa</font></a> -- The only provider with 9 x 1000mbps Transit Redundancy</font></font>

09-22-2002, 02:57 AM	#4
quiet we'll miss you our friend. RIP Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Fernie, BC Posts: 25,115	interesting...... Last edited by quiet; 09-22-2002 at 03:16 AM..

09-22-2002, 03:08 AM	#5
Brown Bear Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,982	I bet Big Players sites have high chargebacks. Eventually people realize that they are getting rebilled at $49.99/month __________________ Surrender all your independent thinking and Click Here for re-programming.

09-22-2002, 04:31 AM	#7
dikkechill Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 679	I had a 100% chargeback ratio at soulcash once, but thats because i only got 1 sale cya Dikkechill __________________ Teens in Wet Panties 60% recurring, ccbill, hosted galleries

09-22-2002, 02:51 AM	#3
[Labret] Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: Са́нкт-Петербу́рг Posts: 10,945	I had one month where I hit 3% back in the beginning. I have not gone over 1% since. If Ox didnt refund like dirty whores so easy, I am sure they would. Esp back when their servers ran like 386s.

09-22-2002, 06:27 AM	#8
Tipsy Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: See sig Posts: 6,989	A company producing high chargebacks is causing many problems for everyone. It's not just that the surfer will have trouble 'trusting' an adult site again to join one, they also will not be allowed to join another site using that CC processor. I had a good example with iBill recently. I was charged twice for something that I shouldn't have been charged at all for. After a few snotty e-mails it was finally resolved with 100% confirmation from iBill that the company in question was at fault and the problem was very much their end. Despite that it now seems iBill have banned my address so I can't use a site that uses iBill. This wasn't even a chargeback just a refund in the end. If you bear in mind that those who join sites usually join several sites over a period of time rather than just one, to keep losing them to blacklist because they were ripped off in the first place can only damage us all. I fully appreciate that for those getting under 1% most of the chargebacks are from assholes who just don't wanna pay the bill and are no great loss. However the sites getting much higher than that are fucking it up by screwing the surfer. That surfer either wont or cant buy from a site again and is a lost sale not just for that site. __________________ Ignorance is never bliss.

09-22-2002, 09:30 AM	#9
Brad Mitchell Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Southfield, MI Posts: 9,812	I have news for you... Much more than 1% of our customers are assholes. I'd say at least 1% are assholes and 1% are theives.... and that puts us at 2% at least! lmao Quiet, they won't admit it because that would make them 'uncool' to put their necks out. Plenty of people are over 1% and that doesn't necessarily make them bad companies. Fuck, as far as I'm concerned the limit should be 3% or 4% again. Surfers can be motherfuckers. I say this not because I don't like my customers, I do, but because the first year I was in business I had my own merchant accounts and handled all my customer support and billing calls. Brad __________________ President at MojoHost \| brad at mojohost dot com \| Skype MojoHostBrad 71 industry awards for hosting and professional excellence since 1999

09-22-2002, 09:36 AM	#10
cherrylula lol Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 15,969	Ifriends has outrageous chargebacks. Way more than 1% for sure.

09-22-2002, 09:38 AM	#11
Fletch XXX GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!! Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: that 504 Posts: 60,840	Oh man I wish I had some of the "Customer Service" guiys recorded messages from dealing with my ex employer and them calling and trying to get chargebacks hahaha They had women calling asking what charges were on cards etc. We had their ip sitting in live rooms and interative feeds for hours being charged by the minute, yet "It wasnt my husband, he didnt do this." hahah funny stuff. Those were good times. 1999 __________________ Want an Android App for your tube, membership, or free site? Need banners or promo material? Hit us up (ICQ Fletch: 148841377) or email me fletchxxx at gmail.com - recent work - About me Last edited by Fletch XXX; 09-22-2002 at 09:39 AM..

09-22-2002, 09:41 AM	#12
Brad Mitchell Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Southfield, MI Posts: 9,812	I have all kinds of crazy stories... it sure was colorful talking to mid-america on the phone. Don't believe the propoganda, chargebacks are by nature higher than 1% in our business regardless of what your business practices are. You could refund everyone that calls in and I'd bet most merchants would still be higher than 1%. All you need to do is talk to one of the merchant banking consultants to find out what big companies have been through 10 or 20 or more merchant accounts Brad __________________ President at MojoHost \| brad at mojohost dot com \| Skype MojoHostBrad 71 industry awards for hosting and professional excellence since 1999

09-22-2002, 12:28 PM	#14
Mr.Fiction Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Free Speech Land Posts: 9,484	I have a question about chargebacks: If I am a customer of a site, and I don't like the content after signing up, can I legally charge back? Say I just don't like the content. I know I can probably ask for a refund, but what about charging back? I know it's fraud to charge back if you claim you didn't make the charge, but what about "customer satisfaction" issues - can those legally result in chargebacks? If so, wouldn't it be easy for people to get 100 people who don't like you together and charge your ass back and lose you your merchant account? I remember reading about some group of right wingers who attacked a Green or some sort of left leaning site like that - where they got his merchant account or processing shut down. Is it really that easy?

09-22-2002, 12:35 PM	#15
EscortBiz Fuck Checks, CASH only! Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 19,422	When I ran an offline Escort service the charges would show up as "Lees Auto Repair" we use to get calls from women all the time "My husband does not even have a car!" one time this women said "Its a old car why would he spend 600 dollars on that peice of junk!" Little did they know that he might of not had a vcar but their husbands did get a nice ride and that that 600 dollars spent was not on a peice of junk it was on a hot peice of ASS __________________ Spanking, Medical Fetish, Sleeping, Strap-on Anal Lesbians, Girls Fucking Guys, Handjob site REAL HOT, Shemales, Anal and Ass Licking sites 100% Real EXCLUSIVE with amazing retention, ccbill payouts, lots of content FREE FTP HOSTING Promote the largest and oldest member paid escort site, Converts 10 times better then any dating site, CCBill payouts ICQ# 158802076

09-22-2002, 03:23 PM	#18
Mr.Fiction Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Free Speech Land Posts: 9,484	Thanks for the reply Jayson. One more question. With the new rules, what time frame is Visa going to use to determine your chargeback ratio? If you have a site that's been around for 4 years, your average is going to be pretty set already over that period of time. I you start a site tomorrow, and your second sale charges back, you're going to be fucked, but you have such a low number of transactions that you could fix the ratio pretty quick. Is this an annual average, a monthly average, or a lifetime average of the site that Visa is looking at?

09-22-2002, 03:35 PM	#19
heymatty Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Scottsdale :) Posts: 2,188	If a guy charges back when he has been rebilled a few times, does that count as 1 chargeback total or 1 chargeback for each separate transaction? __________________ Cashlantis ~ Black Book Cash

09-22-2002, 03:40 PM	#20
Tipsy Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: See sig Posts: 6,989	More than 1% probably are assholes. I used the 1% simply 'cause it was easy and being thrown about. The point made wasn't so much about 1% but that the companies genuinely screwing the surfers (and some of the very big guys are doing it) are fucking up more than just the one sale for them. But then the problem with much of this business has always been that many have the total inability to see long term. __________________ Ignorance is never bliss.

09-22-2002, 05:56 PM	#22
quiet we'll miss you our friend. RIP Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Fernie, BC Posts: 25,115	about a year's worth of transactions (oct 01 to present). well under 1%. __________________ we'll miss you our friend. RIP

09-22-2002, 05:57 PM	#23
Fletch XXX GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!! Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: that 504 Posts: 60,840	Nice. __________________ Want an Android App for your tube, membership, or free site? Need banners or promo material? Hit us up (ICQ Fletch: 148841377) or email me fletchxxx at gmail.com - recent work - About me

09-22-2002, 05:59 PM	#24
Brown Bear Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,982	Quiet, your low number of chargebacks might also be because your site's monthly charge isn't that high. So its not a huge shock when they see their credit card bill. __________________ Surrender all your independent thinking and Click Here for re-programming. Last edited by Brown Bear; 09-22-2002 at 06:03 PM..

09-23-2002, 03:01 AM	#26
OnTime Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 403	So it sounds like One percent might be possible.

09-23-2002, 09:31 AM	#29
SunTzu Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: the box Posts: 456	We're under 1% as well, with all the scrub dbases out there it's not that hard. When someone asks for a refund because it "wasn't them", just send them a polite email saying "no problem, we'll refund your account and cancel your credit card ASAP". I've done that before when we handled our own customer service, it's amazing how fast these idiots turn around.