http://zeitgeistmovie.com/ < A MUST SEE!!!! Especially AMERICANS! - GoFuckYourself.com

beta-tester · 11-04-2007, 12:26 PM

Guys I know that the conspiracy theories are all around us, some may look stupid but some may look very interesting.

This movie is not based on conspiracy theories, it simply shows the proofs of what the things really are! I stongly suggest you take 2 hours of your time and watch this movie. You won't regret it!!!

http://zeitgeistmovie.com/

buzzy · 11-04-2007, 12:32 PM

this has been posted 700000 times.

the part about religion is bullshit and false.

the part about 9/11 isnt based off evidence but speculative guesses

the part at the end is the only intresting bit.

StickyGreen · 11-04-2007, 12:36 PM

Part 1 about religion has TONS of inaccuracies, Part 2 about 9/11 doesn't really prove anything, but Part 3 stands alone. Everyone should at least watch the last part about the Federal Reserve:

Part 1:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=_dmPchuXIXQ

Part 2:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=lBZne09Gf5A

Part 3:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=SjUrib_Gh0Y

Part 4:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=_BVNN1wqw3k

Part 5:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=VPPFgHF9VR4

beta-tester · 11-04-2007, 12:37 PM

don't you think there is a bit of truth in both 9/11 and Religion parts? Some fact can't be speculative guesses, but facts based on evidences. The evidences are scientists and obvious spectators who have filmed the fall of towers.

pornask · 11-04-2007, 12:38 PM

LOL, are we talking about zeitgeist again?

buzzy · 11-04-2007, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beta-tester

don't you think there is a bit of truth in both 9/11 and Religion parts? Some fact can't be speculative guesses, but facts based on evidences. The evidences are scientists and obvious spectators who have filmed the fall of towers.

9/11 mabye, but religion no.

beta-tester · 11-04-2007, 12:43 PM

how can u be so sure?

buzzy · 11-04-2007, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beta-tester

how can u be so sure?

Religion/Culture and Tourism I studied at uni as a joint course, it's my field. But I agree 9/11 is a bit fishy people have a right to be skeptical though there is no solid evidence.

StickyGreen · 11-04-2007, 12:46 PM

The religion part is so far off from the truth. Just start looking up some of the things they talk about, like that one Egyptian god being born from a virgin and all that other B.S. You will find that the religion part of this movie is filled with fake shit. They make a good point overall, but they do basically ruin their credibility with the lies...

yahoo-xxx-girls.com · 11-04-2007, 12:51 PM

Hi beta-tester, yea I've seen it... I found it very interesting regarding the religions, however the rest of it regarding 911 is guess work, but does bring up some interesting points.

When it comes to religions none of the religious types (98% +/- 2% of humanity) will care to even spend the time as to question their views... such people are considered as to be fanatical but this is not to say they are dangerous to themselves or others necessarily... It is safe to call religions and those who follows "death cults". If people were stable to begin with they would seek not to depend on psychological crutches and would try as to lead a stable life... however in most cases it is more socially exceptable as to go to the local church as to be active in ones own community... If you look at the "stone masons" way back in history you will see my point...

Later,

.

xmas13 · 11-04-2007, 12:59 PM

What a bunch of morons, Zeitgeist is not more inaccurate than Bush speeches and the Bible.

FUCK YOU.

xmas13 · 11-04-2007, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzy

Religion/Culture and Tourism I studied at uni as a joint course, it's my field. But I agree 9/11 is a bit fishy people have a right to be skeptical though there is no solid evidence.

Do you remember what evidence was needed to launch a trillion dollar war in Iraq?

A few photoshopped satellite pics

yahoo-xxx-girls.com · 11-04-2007, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xmas13

Do you remember what evidence was needed to launch a trillion dollar war in Iraq?

A few photoshopped satellite pics

Perhaps...

xmas13 · 11-04-2007, 01:07 PM

Zeitgeist makes three points:

- Jesus Christ never existed.

- 9/11 was a CIA terrorist act.

- The US central bank is private and lends money (that doesn't exist) to the US government at interest.

What kind of evidence do you need? We knew for centuries that Jesus was a fraud. We know Bin Laden worked for the CIA, and Bush Sr. was former director of the CIA. Last point.

Quote:

When elected, Wilson passed the Federal Reserve Act. Later, Wilson remorsefully replied (referring to the FED), "I have unwittingly ruined my country"

WHAT FUCKING EVIDENCE DO YOU NEED?

xmas13 · 11-04-2007, 01:13 PM

Please post evidence that Jesus Christ existed, that the Federal Reserve is not a private organization.

And also post evidence that 9/11 could have never been organized by the CIA?

Let me remind you that the CIA was behind Saddam Hussein in Iraq and Talibans in Afghanistan.

beta-tester · 11-04-2007, 01:14 PM

9/11 was an inside job i am 100% sure now...i read many books, transcripts and watched couple movies, but wasn't sure because i didn't know about the cause of it.....now it's definitely known that it was set up by the bush's administration and his people to get nation's support for their wars against 'terrorism'....

pocketkangaroo · 11-04-2007, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xmas13

Please post evidence that Jesus Christ existed, that the Federal Reserve is not a private organization.

The parts that are bullshit aren't in regards to him not existing. They are in regards to a bunch of shit about other religions that was just made up (basically the whole Horus/Set part). If someone makes up one part of a documentary, why wouldn't they make up the rest?

xmas13 · 11-04-2007, 01:18 PM

The CIA hired Islamists and financed them. The NSA/CIA would have never missed the Saudi terrorists who lived in Florida and got airplane pilot training. Even Israeli secret agents were spying on these Saudis.

The CIA didn't just let terrorists hijack the planes, they recruited them, and paid for their training.

We will never find Bin Laden, he has high level protection as a CIA agent.

buzzy · 11-04-2007, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xmas13

Please post evidence that Jesus Christ existed, that the Federal Reserve is not a private organization.

And also post evidence that 9/11 could have never been organized by the CIA?

Let me remind you that the CIA was behind Saddam Hussein in Iraq and Talibans in Afghanistan.

Jesus christ did exist, weather the storys told about him were true is another story but he did exist. I cant be bothered going into it though, I dont feel like posting on essay on how Jesus existed on a Porn forum where 90% of the posters have mental problems.

(Not you, but most of the people here).

StickyGreen · 11-04-2007, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xmas13

Zeitgeist makes three points:

- Jesus Christ never existed.

- 9/11 was a CIA terrorist act.

- The US central bank is private and lends money (that doesn't exist) to the US government at interest.

What kind of evidence do you need? We knew for centuries that Jesus was a fraud. We know Bin Laden worked for the CIA, and Bush Sr. was former director of the CIA. Last point.

WHAT FUCKING EVIDENCE DO YOU NEED?

Some of the stuff in this film is true, but there are a lot of things that are false. I heard people say that there were lots of inaccuracies in the religion part, so I decided to watch it and check up on their info myself.

When they are comparing other gods to Jesus at the beginning they say the Egyptian god Horus was born on Dec. 25th and was born of a virgin. I started to do some research and everything I found about Horus said something completely different from this information. I would like to see you find a credible source that says Horus was born on Dec. 25th and of a virgin. This was the very first thing I checked up on, and it looked to be totally false, so why even continue with the film?

The last part about the Federal Reserve is good though...

StuartD · 11-04-2007, 01:22 PM

I wonder how long until Franck gets into this slinging his usual brand of insults and name calling.

xmas13 · 11-04-2007, 01:23 PM

Bin Laden denied involvement in the WTC attacks. It's fact.

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/1...nladen.denial/

Islamic militant leader Osama bin Laden, the man the United States considers the prime suspect in last week's terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, denied any role Sunday in the actions believed to have killed thousands.

The Duck · 11-04-2007, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xmas13

What a bunch of morons, Zeitgeist is not more inaccurate than Bush speeches and the Bible.

FUCK YOU.

hahahaha WIN

yahoo-xxx-girls.com · 11-04-2007, 01:25 PM

I'm not for nor against the freemasons, however they with the help of the Night Templar were know as setting up the first international banking institution and such spread to Canada and as well as to the British colonies now the United States at about the same time... When the USA was formed and officially the British colonies fell to the influence of the newly created country to be... do you think the power structures just diapered or went underground...

If there is a conspiracy it would be one of ignorance...

Later,

.

xmas13 · 11-04-2007, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzy

Jesus christ did exist, weather the storys told about him were true is another story.

Jesus NEVER existed.

A religion is a successful sect. Period.

buzzy · 11-04-2007, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xmas13

Jesus NEVER existed.

A religion is a successful sect. Period.

Yes, he did.

pocketkangaroo · 11-04-2007, 01:31 PM

I'm watching the part on the Federal Reserve. It's not even 5 minutes in and the whole basis for it is completely false. The government doesn't pay interest on money it receives from the Federal Reserve.

xmas13 · 11-04-2007, 01:31 PM

Jesus was an Alien from Mars. How do i know that? I just wrote it. AH AH.

Christians are just as dangerous as Muslims.

God existence is so obvious that only a small minority of Western Europeans still believes in God, and most are over 60 year old.

yahoo-xxx-girls.com · 11-04-2007, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

I'm watching the part on the Federal Reserve. It's not even 5 minutes in and the whole basis for it is completely false. The government doesn't pay interest on money it receives from the Federal Reserve.

pocketkangaroo yes it does...

pocketkangaroo · 11-04-2007, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xmas13

Jesus NEVER existed.

A religion is a successful sect. Period.

Most historians would disagree with you. I guess people have to make the decision whether they believe historians and scholars who have dedicated their lives to uncovering history, or some guy who made a YouTube video.

xmas13 · 11-04-2007, 01:33 PM

pocketkangaroo · 11-04-2007, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balalsubturfyooj

pocketkangaroo yes it does...

No it doesn't. It returns all interest to the Treasury. This is fairly basic economics.

xmas13 · 11-04-2007, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

Most historians would disagree with you. I guess people have to make the decision whether they believe historians and scholars who have dedicated their lives to uncovering history, or some guy who made a YouTube video.

Yes Christian historians and scholars ...... so biased. History written by the Church.

it's like when Bush talks about his fantastic achievements at the White House.

buzzy · 11-04-2007, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

Most historians would disagree with you. I guess people have to make the decision whether they believe historians and scholars who have dedicated their lives to uncovering history, or some guy who made a YouTube video.

Yeah lol, I asked him to take my word for it since I studied this stuff for 4 years but no I guess a porn webmaster with no qualifications knows best.

buzzy · 11-04-2007, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xmas13

Jesus was an Alien from Mars. How do i know that? I just wrote it. AH AH.

Christians are just as dangerous as Muslims.

God existence is so obvious that only a small minority of Western Europeans still believes in God, and most are over 60 year old.

Christians nor Muslims are dangerous, you're just being an idiot now. Extremeism is a problem, like such as 9/11. But so are extremeist christians. You know Hitler done the holocaust in the name of Jesus?

pocketkangaroo · 11-04-2007, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xmas13

Yes Christian historians and scholars ...... so biased. History written by the Church.

it's like when Bush talks about his fantastic achievements at the White House.

No. Most of these historians have no affiliation to religion. You don't have to worship Ra to research Egyptian history, just as you don't need to be Christian to research the history of its religion.

yahoo-xxx-girls.com · 11-04-2007, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

No it doesn't. It returns all interest to the Treasury. This is fairly basic economics.

As far as I understand it the US Treasury is its own institution... and no it's not basic economics...

Later,

xmas13 · 11-04-2007, 01:44 PM

Egyptian Pharaohs came up with this idea of monotheism.

Monotheism then arrived in Israel, Romans conquered Israel. A Roman emperor, just like Egyptian Pharaohs before him, adopted it.

Religion is the opium of masses. It's a spiritual drug.

According to this analogy, fundamentalists are drug addicts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_of_the_People

Quote:

"Religion is the opium of the people" (translated from the German Die Religion ... ist das Opium des Volkes") is one of the most frequently quoted (and sometimes misquoted as "opiate of the people" or "opiate of the masses") statements of Karl Marx

pocketkangaroo · 11-04-2007, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balalsubturfyooj

As far as I understand it the US Treasury is its own institution... and no it's not basic economics...

Later,

It's not its own institution, it's a cabinet department that works under the President.

As for whether it's basic economics or not, that's up to your perspective. It was in my freshman Economics class in college though which I assume is fairly basic.

buzzy · 11-04-2007, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xmas13

Egyptian Pharaohs came up with this idea of monotheism.

Monotheism then arrived in Israel, Romans conquered Israel. A Roman emperor, just like Egyptian Pharaohs before him, adopted it.

Religion is the opium of masses. It's a spiritual drug.

According to this analogy, fundamentalists are drug addicts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_of_the_People

Even people in the stone age worshipped a god.

xmas13 · 11-04-2007, 01:46 PM

Repeat after me:

Die Religion ... ist das Opium des Volkes

pornask · 11-04-2007, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xmas13

What a bunch of morons, Zeitgeist is not more inaccurate than Bush speeches and the Bible.

FUCK YOU.

some dicks are just plain ugly. And I'm not talking about Jesus...

xmas13 · 11-04-2007, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzy

Even people in the stone age worshipped a god.

Gods not God.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egypt

Quote:

One of the best-known eighteenth Dynasty pharaohs is Amenhotep IV, who changed his name to Akhenaten in honor of the Aten and whose exclusive worship of the Aten is often interpreted as history's first instance of monotheism.

Jesus Christ is a legend taken from Egypt, the son of the SUN, not the son of God.

pocketkangaroo · 11-04-2007, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xmas13

Repeat after me:

Die Religion ... ist das Opium des Volkes

The irony of your posts is that you have a lot of similar characteristics to them.

xmas13 · 11-04-2007, 01:52 PM

Our primitive ancestors believed the sun was the source of life and they worshipped it as a 'God'.

Cf Ancient Civilizations, pyramids.

pocketkangaroo · 11-04-2007, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xmas13

Our primitive ancestors believed the sun was the source of life and they worshipped it as a 'God'.

Cf Ancient Civilizations, pyramids.

What does that have to do with anything?

xmas13 · 11-04-2007, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

The irony of your posts is that you have a lot of similar characteristics to them.

Yeah yeah.

Don't worry, the new generation of Americans won't fall for it. You can go fuck yourself.

In Europe, churches are historic monuments, they are all being closed.

xmas13 · 11-04-2007, 01:57 PM

pocketkangaroo, your ancestors who stayed in Europe lost faith in your fucking Church.

How come? I thought most historians agreed that Jesus existed, made miracles and religion was peace.

cykoe6 · 11-04-2007, 01:57 PM

The amount of stupidty contained in this thread is really breathtaking.

pocketkangaroo · 11-04-2007, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xmas13

pocketkangaroo, your ancestors who stayed in Europe lost faith in your fucking Church.

How come? I thought most historians agreed that Jesus existed, made miracles and religion was peace.

I have no Church. I'm an Atheist.

11-04-2007, 12:26 PM	#1
beta-tester Rock 'n Roll Baby! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: USA, temporarly Posts: 22,562	http://zeitgeistmovie.com/ < A MUST SEE!!!! Especially AMERICANS! Guys I know that the conspiracy theories are all around us, some may look stupid but some may look very interesting. This movie is not based on conspiracy theories, it simply shows the proofs of what the things really are! I stongly suggest you take 2 hours of your time and watch this movie. You won't regret it!!! http://zeitgeistmovie.com/ __________________ Sig for sale. Affordable prices. Contact me and get a great deal ;) My contact: ICQ: 944-320-46 e-mail: manca {AT} HotFreeSex4All.com

11-04-2007, 12:36 PM	#3
StickyGreen . Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 13,076	Part 1 about religion has TONS of inaccuracies, Part 2 about 9/11 doesn't really prove anything, but Part 3 stands alone. Everyone should at least watch the last part about the Federal Reserve: Part 1: https://youtube.com/watch?v=_dmPchuXIXQ Part 2: https://youtube.com/watch?v=lBZne09Gf5A Part 3: https://youtube.com/watch?v=SjUrib_Gh0Y Part 4: https://youtube.com/watch?v=_BVNN1wqw3k Part 5: https://youtube.com/watch?v=VPPFgHF9VR4 __________________ Refer Cam Girls and Take Home 10% of Everything They Make For Life

11-04-2007, 12:37 PM	#4
beta-tester Rock 'n Roll Baby! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: USA, temporarly Posts: 22,562	don't you think there is a bit of truth in both 9/11 and Religion parts? Some fact can't be speculative guesses, but facts based on evidences. The evidences are scientists and obvious spectators who have filmed the fall of towers. __________________ Sig for sale. Affordable prices. Contact me and get a great deal ;) My contact: ICQ: 944-320-46 e-mail: manca {AT} HotFreeSex4All.com

11-04-2007, 12:43 PM	#7
beta-tester Rock 'n Roll Baby! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: USA, temporarly Posts: 22,562	how can u be so sure? __________________ Sig for sale. Affordable prices. Contact me and get a great deal ;) My contact: ICQ: 944-320-46 e-mail: manca {AT} HotFreeSex4All.com

11-04-2007, 12:46 PM	#9
StickyGreen . Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 13,076	The religion part is so far off from the truth. Just start looking up some of the things they talk about, like that one Egyptian god being born from a virgin and all that other B.S. You will find that the religion part of this movie is filled with fake shit. They make a good point overall, but they do basically ruin their credibility with the lies... __________________ Refer Cam Girls and Take Home 10% of Everything They Make For Life

11-04-2007, 12:32 PM	#2
buzzy Confirmed User Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,606	this has been posted 700000 times. the part about religion is bullshit and false. the part about 9/11 isnt based off evidence but speculative guesses the part at the end is the only intresting bit.

11-04-2007, 12:38 PM	#5
pornask So Fucking Banned Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: 253-233-241 Posts: 6,518	LOL, are we talking about zeitgeist again?

11-04-2007, 12:51 PM	#10
yahoo-xxx-girls.com Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 3,143	Hi beta-tester so what is your view? Hi beta-tester, yea I've seen it... I found it very interesting regarding the religions, however the rest of it regarding 911 is guess work, but does bring up some interesting points. When it comes to religions none of the religious types (98% +/- 2% of humanity) will care to even spend the time as to question their views... such people are considered as to be fanatical but this is not to say they are dangerous to themselves or others necessarily... It is safe to call religions and those who follows "death cults". If people were stable to begin with they would seek not to depend on psychological crutches and would try as to lead a stable life... however in most cases it is more socially exceptable as to go to the local church as to be active in ones own community... If you look at the "stone masons" way back in history you will see my point... Later, . __________________ sig too big

11-04-2007, 12:59 PM	#11
xmas13 Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: GFY Posts: 5,176	What a bunch of morons, Zeitgeist is not more inaccurate than Bush speeches and the Bible. FUCK YOU.

11-04-2007, 01:13 PM	#15
xmas13 Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: GFY Posts: 5,176	Please post evidence that Jesus Christ existed, that the Federal Reserve is not a private organization. And also post evidence that 9/11 could have never been organized by the CIA? Let me remind you that the CIA was behind Saddam Hussein in Iraq and Talibans in Afghanistan. Last edited by xmas13; 11-04-2007 at 01:15 PM..

11-04-2007, 01:14 PM	#16
beta-tester Rock 'n Roll Baby! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: USA, temporarly Posts: 22,562	9/11 was an inside job i am 100% sure now...i read many books, transcripts and watched couple movies, but wasn't sure because i didn't know about the cause of it.....now it's definitely known that it was set up by the bush's administration and his people to get nation's support for their wars against 'terrorism'.... __________________ Sig for sale. Affordable prices. Contact me and get a great deal ;) My contact: ICQ: 944-320-46 e-mail: manca {AT} HotFreeSex4All.com

11-04-2007, 01:18 PM	#18
xmas13 Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: GFY Posts: 5,176	The CIA hired Islamists and financed them. The NSA/CIA would have never missed the Saudi terrorists who lived in Florida and got airplane pilot training. Even Israeli secret agents were spying on these Saudis. The CIA didn't just let terrorists hijack the planes, they recruited them, and paid for their training. We will never find Bin Laden, he has high level protection as a CIA agent. Last edited by xmas13; 11-04-2007 at 01:21 PM..

11-04-2007, 01:22 PM	#21
StuartD Sofa King Band Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Outside the box Posts: 29,903	I wonder how long until Franck gets into this slinging his usual brand of insults and name calling. __________________ This is me on facebook This is me on twitter

11-04-2007, 01:23 PM	#22
xmas13 Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: GFY Posts: 5,176	Bin Laden denied involvement in the WTC attacks. It's fact. http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/1...nladen.denial/ Islamic militant leader Osama bin Laden, the man the United States considers the prime suspect in last week's terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, denied any role Sunday in the actions believed to have killed thousands.

11-04-2007, 01:25 PM	#24
yahoo-xxx-girls.com Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 3,143	I'm not for nor against the freemasons, however they with the help of the Night Templar were know as setting up the first international banking institution and such spread to Canada and as well as to the British colonies now the United States at about the same time... When the USA was formed and officially the British colonies fell to the influence of the newly created country to be... do you think the power structures just diapered or went underground... If there is a conspiracy it would be one of ignorance... Later, . __________________ sig too big

11-04-2007, 01:31 PM	#27
pocketkangaroo Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 8,452	I'm watching the part on the Federal Reserve. It's not even 5 minutes in and the whole basis for it is completely false. The government doesn't pay interest on money it receives from the Federal Reserve.

11-04-2007, 01:33 PM	#31
xmas13 Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: GFY Posts: 5,176

11-04-2007, 01:46 PM	#41
xmas13 Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: GFY Posts: 5,176	Repeat after me: Die Religion ... ist das Opium des Volkes

11-04-2007, 01:52 PM	#45
xmas13 Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: GFY Posts: 5,176	Our primitive ancestors believed the sun was the source of life and they worshipped it as a 'God'. Cf Ancient Civilizations, pyramids.

11-04-2007, 01:57 PM	#48
xmas13 Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: GFY Posts: 5,176	pocketkangaroo, your ancestors who stayed in Europe lost faith in your fucking Church. How come? I thought most historians agreed that Jesus existed, made miracles and religion was peace.

11-04-2007, 01:57 PM	#49
cykoe6 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Vegas Posts: 4,499	The amount of stupidty contained in this thread is really breathtaking. __________________ бабки, шлюхи, сила