Pro Life or Pro Choice?

[eru]

After reading that most shocking thing of your life thread, I thought I should create this poll. Take it!

[Morgan]

nice poll, im curious too... i chose pro-choice.

[[Labret]]

Abortion is wrong. Dont want a baby, dont be a whore.

Too many skanks use it like birthcontrol.

Abortion is a sign of taking no responsibility for your actions.

Should it be illegal? No.

Should you be able to have more than 1? No.

You have more than 2 and you should be forcibly sterilized.

[BJ]

Originally posted by [Labret]
Abortion is wrong. Dont want a baby, dont be a whore.

Too many skanks use it like birthcontrol.

Abortion is a sign of taking no responsibility for your actions.

Should it be illegal? No.

Should you be able to have more than 1? No.

You have more than 2 and you should be forcibly sterilized.

you should share your oppinion with Desirae

I will as well

[eru]

I believe in population controls in urban areas -- 1 or 2 children per family. If you have a third child (or second depending on the law), it will either be sent to a family that cannot have children (barren), sent to the military (for life), or killed.

I agree with you on the sterilize thing Labret.

[L0stMind]

there are some cases where I think abortion is a viable alternative. Rape comes to mind immediately.

but really, women who have more than 1 abortion are seriously messed in the head and shouldnt be allowed to produce children anyways.

[galleryseek]

okay well heres my whole take on this thing. before i was a virgin, i always believed in pro-life... i thought to myself, well god damn, if your going to fuck, you might as well accept the risks involved and not get an abortion, you did it - you pay for it....

teenage pregnancy:
now, my views have changed somewhat now that i'm older. i've never gotten a girl pregnant, however when i would have sex i'd always get extremely paranoid that she'd somehow get pregnant (even using a condom)... and that was enough torture within it's self... and the last girl i've had sex with is just a real innocent girl and i kinda corrupted her, but shes a very "well to do" person... heres my point: living in this current society, obviously we can see, as time goes on, morals begin to regress and sexuality becomes more n' more accepted, hence theres more of a relaxed state of mind when it comes to having sex... and the consequences are often times overlooked by younger people, and just go ahead and have sex. Now heres the thing, do you think these kids are ready to handle a baby? hell no, do you think that kid is going to have a lovely life w/ foster parents and going through the system, most likely not... So what i'm saying, is w/ the current sexually relaxed society, kids just dont fucking think for themselves and act on temporary physical gratification, and without abortion, their life + the life of the child can be very distorted. Now this isn't my total stand on this, because i never fully 100% believe in something... read on...

rape pregnancy:
once again, on this note, i believe its probably the best idea to abort the child.. its obviously totally unexpected, psychologically the kid will be fucked up (most likely) etc... etc...

now heres the reason i don't fully believe in either of those ideas... when does it become human... after it is born, or the 1st day of pregnancy... and also, does it have a "soul"? now i know a lot of people look down on religious ideas here, i'm agnostic.... but really, do we REALLY KNOW? no, we DONT. truely, nobody knows the truth about life. we can only assume or have "faith."

so for the most part i believe in pro-choice... allow the person to decide for themselves. its all about who we are inside. some of us are just more religious than others.

[Voodoo]

Where's the selection for "PRO-DEATH"???

[DjSap]

when the baby can survive outside the mother i will can it a life...until then have a happy killing...

[[Labret]]

Originally posted by DjSap
when the baby can survive outside the mother i will can it a life...until then have a happy killing...

Using your logic then we should kill the severely retarded, kids born with life threatening birth defects and illnesses. None of them would survive without the aid of medical science. I am not saying that we should not kill them, although I am sure you probably feel different.

Babies can live outside the womb at 5 months. Just because the gestation is 9 months does not mean anything previous to that should not be regarded as devoid of "life". I suppose you would support a nice late term 7 month abortion eh?

[Amputate Your Head]

pro choice.

[FlyingIguana]

Originally posted by [Labret]
Abortion is wrong. Dont want a baby, dont be a whore.

Too many skanks use it like birthcontrol.

Abortion is a sign of taking no responsibility for your actions.

Should it be illegal? No.

Should you be able to have more than 1? No.

You have more than 2 and you should be forcibly sterilized.

i don't agree with you at all. why bring a baby into the world that isn't wanted. i think that should be a crime in itself.

[ControlThy]

We need to ask ourselves the question whether a baby is better off living in a family that has no interest in it and will most likely neglect it, or that it will not live at all.

Abortion is not a small thing, it needs alot of thinking.
As mentioned earlier, persons who knowingly have unsafe sex and therefor risking pregnancy should not be allowed to have an abortion. In such a case it might be better to have the infant transfered to another family that is incapable of making children themselves but who can provide a good environment for the child to grow up in.

But who are we to judge?

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally posted by ControlThy
But who are we to judge?

We are the Humans. The Thinkers. We rule the Earth. We can create, extend, and destroy life. We can wipe out entire species... or save them. We could easily pave every inch of the planet if so inclined.... or preserve entire continents in their pristine natural environment. We can sidestep the smallest insect... or annihilate a hemishpere in the blink of an eye.

I think that makes us the judges as well.

[DjSap]

Originally posted by [Labret]


Using your logic then we should kill the severely retarded, kids born with life threatening birth defects and illnesses. None of them would survive without the aid of medical science. I am not saying that we should not kill them, although I am sure you probably feel different.

Babies can live outside the womb at 5 months. Just because the gestation is 9 months does not mean anything previous to that should not be regarded as devoid of "life". I suppose you would support a nice late term 7 month abortion eh?

like i said, if they can live in the "outside" world then they shouldn't be killed, i think that its in the 20th week or something...doesn't matter if it's with help of medical equipment...just as long as they will survive outide the womb...

[[Labret]]

Originally posted by FlyingIguana


i don't agree with you at all. why bring a baby into the world that isn't wanted. i think that should be a crime in itself.

Then give it to one of the people who sit years on waiting lists wanting one.

Just because you are a lazy whore who does not or cannot accept responsibility for your actions does not mean someone else wont be able to love it and give it a good life.

Jesus, I sounds pro - child. You fuck up, you should pay for it. Not someone else. Take responsibility. Maybe after you have your first one you will keep your fucking stink hole closed and use some birth control.

[[Labret]]

Originally posted by DjSap


like i said, if they can live in the "outside" world then they shouldn't be killed, i think that its in the 20th week or something...doesn't matter if it's with help of medical equipment...just as long as they will survive outide the womb...

oki doki

[FlyingIguana]

Originally posted by [Labret]


Then give it to one of the people who sit years on waiting lists wanting one.

Just because you are a lazy whore who does not or cannot accept responsibility for your actions does not mean someone else wont be able to love it and give it a good life.

Jesus, I sounds pro - child. You fuck up, you should pay for it. Not someone else. Take responsibility. Maybe after you have your first one you will keep your fucking stink hole closed and use some birth control.

i wouldn't feal comfortable sending my child to live with someone else. its simply not the same when it isn't your child. that bond just isn't there. if you think it is, its bullshit. they may love the child, but that bond isn't there.

you don't know me at all, so please worry about how responsible you are.

[vegasdude]

BP fucked them!

[ControlThy]

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head

I think that makes us the judges as well.

Would you be able to judge whether a child gets to live or die?

[pentae]

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head

We are the Humans. The Thinkers. We rule the Earth. We can create, extend, and destroy life. We can wipe out entire species... or save them. We could easily pave every inch of the planet if so inclined.... or preserve entire continents in their pristine natural environment. We can sidestep the smallest insect... or annihilate a hemishpere in the blink of an eye.

I think that makes us the judges as well.

Great Post, Amp.

We need to realise that our own opinions and judgements are also reflected across society.

[Voodoo]

I wonder what would happen, if a man wrote a notice like this:

Dear Sally,
This note is to inform you that I am completely against having any children with anyone. And will in fact refuse responsibility if you ever become impregnated, through your malicious intent or by accidental mishaps. I do agree to spend quality time with you, and look forward to exploring a safe sex relationship with you, however I must ask that you waive your rights to any child support, less the amount equal to exactly 1/2 of the cost of an abortion.

By signing this document below, you are without question or duress, agreeing to the aforementioned terms of this binding contract, and assume all responsibility for any pregnancy that may arise from this relationship, less the amount equal to exactly 1/2 of the cost of an abortion which is due by me to you if a pregnancy shall befall you, and it is determined without a doubt, by a medical professional, that your pregnancy was due in part by yours and my fornication activities.

___________________________FIRST NAME
___________________________LAST NAME

___________________________TODAY'S DATE
___________________________NOTARY


and got the chic to sign it... and she did get pregnant. Would he still be liable for the kid?

-Just out of curiosity... Please don't think that I would do this or even think it should be done..., it is strictly hypothetical. What would happen in court. Considering that if I worded the doc properly. It's intent is to illustrate a device that alleviates himself of any responsibility to a possible future child.

I've always wondered this... so if someone knows the law pretty well, would this truely alleviate a man's responsibility to the child?

[Voodoo]

Not that any woman in her right mind would sign something like that.... but, it's an interesting question.

[ControlThy]

Originally posted by Voodoo

-Just out of curiosity... Please don't think that I would do this or even think it should be done..., it is strictly hypothetical. What would happen in court. Considering that if I worded the doc properly. It's intent is to illustrate a device that alleviates himself of any responsibility to a possible future child.

I've always wondered this... so if someone knows the law pretty well, would this truely alleviate a man's responsibility to the child?

I think such a contract would be in direct violation of the law.

But maybe ask your lawyer? ;-)

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally posted by ControlThy


Would you be able to judge whether a child gets to live or die?

Concerning my blood or yours? I judge the things that affect my life. I would hope that you are capable of the same. And I would certainly hope that my right to continue to do so would not be usurped by some governmental agency.

Pro Choice IS Pro Life. (if that happens to be the choice) But it doesn't work in reverse.

[chodadog]

I think there should be some sort of limit on abortions. If some bitch has more than an abortion or two, she's obviously not worrying about contraception. The whore's tubes should be tied.

There are some cases when i think abortion is absolutely reasonable. Rape, for example.

[mika]

Very difficult. I'm almost pro-life here. No vote yet, though

Let me tell you a real life example

Teenage girl, already had one abortion. Goes to a television chat and wants to know how soon she can get a SECOND abortion. In the next sentence she wants to know about section.

Ok she gives herself two options:
1. abortion or
2. section

She's so god damn spoiled and irresponsible that she's pregnant for the 2nd time already and IF SHE IS NOT ALLOWED another abortion, she wants a section, because she thinks it's EASIER than giving a birth.

That is what happens when you give freedom to some people.


What made me not to vote, though:
- there is no 100% safe birth control - statistical accidents happen even for the most responsible people.
- rape
- mentally or physically ill mothers
etc

[DjSap]

Originally posted by Voodoo
I've always wondered this... so if someone knows the law pretty well, would this truely alleviate a man's responsibility to the child?

I would like to see this in reality...at this moment two things can happen...

#1. The woman doesnt want to keep the child but the man does...what happens...abortion.
#2. The man doesn't want to keep the child the the woman does...what happens...she keeps it and the man must pay child support.

We men are discriminated, we don't have any rights in this area and therefore a document like that would be pretty nice...if we have no saying then we shouldnt be paying...

[mika]

Originally posted by DjSap

if we have no saying then we shouldnt be paying...

use a condom if you don't trust her

you trust her? you had your saying

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally posted by mika
What made me not to vote, though:
- there is no 100% safe birth control - statistical accidents happen even for the most responsible people.
- rape
- mentally or physically ill mothers
etc

all of these are very real situations that cannot be ignored.

Originally posted by mika

That is what happens when you give freedom to some people.

True... but I will never be in favor of eliminating freedoms for everyone by turning over control and the option of choice over to some committee just because a few people are mentally inept. There are stupid people in the world. There always has been, there always will be. Nor are we any longer in a species crisis stage. There are plenty of humans to go around. Thus, I conclude that if you are not prepared or are unable to give a new human a proper upbringing in this world, you not only should have the choice to opt out, you SHOULD be opting out. Maybe the world wouldn't be quite so fucked up if more people used their heads and stopped breeding like fucking roaches.

[DjSap]

Originally posted by mika


use a condom if you don't trust her

you trust her? you had your saying

condoms are only like 95% safe...it's not about trust, it's the fact when it comes to if a man wants a baby or not he has no saying while the woman can do as she pleases...

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally posted by DjSap
it's not about trust, it's the fact when it comes to if a man wants a baby or not he has no saying while the woman can do as she pleases...

not completely true... get a vasectomy. There isn't a fucking thing she can say about it.

[Theo]

i vote Bush

[mika]

Choice -> To fuck or not to fuck
Decision: To fuck
Choice -> To use birth control or no?
Decision: No
Choice -> Abortion or to give birth
Decision: Abortion

Seems to me, Amp, that we are not taking freedom of choice away from anyone. They have 3 choices here, only with the 2 leading to the last one.

Seems like everyone wants to respect the 3rd choice only and like it didn't matter at all what the person chose in 2 of her/his previous choices

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally posted by mika
Choice -> To fuck or not to fuck
Decision: To fuck
Choice -> To use birth control or no?
Decision: No
Choice -> Abortion or to give birth
Decision: Abortion

Seems to me, Amp, that we are not taking freedom of choice away from anyone. They have 3 choices here, only with the 2 leading to the last one.

Seems like everyone wants to respect the 3rd choice only and like it didn't matter at all what the person chose in 2 of her/his previous choices

true enough.... but you see, the first two don't require medical expertise to accomplish. The third one kinda does. Hence the big issue. However, if we take this to extremes for a moment... let's suppose instead of talking about taking away choice #3, we were talking about taking away choice #1.

Obviously it's ridiculous to think for even a moment that there's some way to legislate fucking out of the equation.

So let's move on to eliminating choice #2. Equally as difficult to somehow force the world to use birth control. Would be interested in seeing the enforcement plan for that one.

Which brings us right back to choice #3. The only one they really have any control over at all, since it's something that isn't done in the heat of passion like the previous two, but rather, at a doctors office. Now.... looking at it in a clear honest light, we can probably safely assume that if they DID remove the choice option from the table and closed all the clinics that quite a few would not be going through with the procedure. However, I think we can also safely assume that it would do nothing in terms of detering vast numbers of people from performing the procedure THEMSELVES.

Yes... in basements, garages, backs of pickup trucks, nice well-to-do homes and trailer parks alike.

So all that really accomplishes is a big trophy for the protesters to put on their shelf, and alot more loss of life because proper medical attention would no longer be available to those people who STILL CHOOSE to excersize their right to do with their body as they see fit. Regardless of their reasons.

Banning abortion isn't going to stop people from performing abortions. On themselves if necessary, and probably with coat hangers. It would only increase death.

You can't legislate people's will. No matter how many arguments you may have supporting it. It can't be done.

[Amputate Your Head]

Let's use another example for a second...

still pertaining to personal choice concerning the body, let's suppose there was some anti-tattoo/piercing coalition that protested outside ink shops everywhere because they felt it was a violation of the body to perform such an act. Let's suppose this went on for years and years and finally, the government was given the power to eliminate it altogether. The protesters win.

Is that going to stop people from modifying their bodies? From injecting ink into their skin? From embedding beads into their cocks, metal mohawks into their scalps, or piercing their clits?

Not a chance in hell.

Ya just can't legislate that kinda stuff. The body is all you got. It's all anyone really can say is 100% theirs and it's goin' with ya when ya die. And choices concerning it will always be made by the individual in spite of any law someone makes or how many protesters are outside the door crying.

And this is why I find these abortion debates so freakin' tedious.... all the bitching in the world is not going to change the fact that you can't stop people from doing what they're gonna do. And I can't believe the active protesters that spend their lives harping on the shit for no fucking reason. They'll never win.... even if they win.

[Amputate Your Head]

hell, look at drugs.... those ARE illegal. Does anyone care? We got people openly admitting to using drugs all the time right here. Tons of people in the world protest drug use every day.... has it stopped drugs? No. Business is booming. Personal choice dominates over law when it comes to your own body.

[mika]

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head
hell, look at drugs.... those ARE illegal. Does anyone care? We got people openly admitting to using drugs all the time right here. Tons of people in the world protest drug use every day.... has it stopped drugs? No. Business is booming. Personal choice dominates over law when it comes to your own body.

Yes. Still no vote from me.

Maybe abortion just should not be supported by government (=other people, taxpayers).

I dont pay your tattoos or drugs, and I dont wanna pay your abortion either . If you get pregnant, find a private doctor, and pay for the abortion.

[gothweb]

As one part libertarian, one part liberal, and one part holier-than-thou moralist, I have an odd take on this one. One that, bizarrely, comes out with the same basic answer as Labret.

I am Pro Choice and Pro Life. In terms of the Law, I believe it would be wrong to legislate this particular choice, so I am Pro Choice. In terms of Morality, I believe it is wrong to have an abortion. So I would work to preserve a woman or couple's choice to have an abortion, and then try to get them not to have one.

[titmowse]

i love to watch men argue decisions they'll never have to actually face.

tell you what fellas, the day this it's your body, your health and your life at risk, then your opinions will matter.

[[Labret]]

Originally posted by titmowse
i love to watch men argue decisions they'll never have to actually face.

tell you what fellas, the day this it's your body, your health and your life at risk, then your opinions will matter.

Then after you calf it and decide to take off with some Mexican, dont come crying for child support.

Its YOURS.... remember?

[titmowse]

so labret...go the distance and have that vasectomy. since all women are untrustworthy, why take the chance?

why can't men be more responsible and ensure they don't put themselves in an unwanted pregnancy situation? you don't want to be "tricked" then put on a glove.

it may take one to carry it, but it still takes two to make it and two WILL be responsible for it's welfare.

mexican? sounds like a personal experience.

[[Labret]]

Originally posted by titmowse


it may take one to carry it, but it still takes two to make it and two WILL be responsible for it's welfare.

mexican? sounds like a personal experience.

Yet its only one persons decision on whether or not to terminate?

Typical self-serving woman bullshit. Its my decision, my body, my baby, but if I decide to have it YOU pay for it. Nice. American women should be sterilized.

Trust me, I want a vasectomy. The last thing I need and or want is a little screaming sack of guts eating my money, time, and life away. And if for some reason one ever pops up, good luck finding me in Costa Rica.

As for the beaner... comment served its purpose in that I needed to pick an ethnic group for added punch to the statement.

[mijoon]

Originally posted by FlyingIguana


i wouldn't feal comfortable sending my child to live with someone else. ...

But you would feel comfortable having it destroyed ?????

Let me add an appendum to the original question .

How many pro-choicers are anti-Capital Punishment ?

[titmowse]

then please get your vasectomy labret. what's stopping you? my brother is a nasty curmudgeon just like you and had one before he was forty. that way we evil evil women can not hurt you like we apparently have so in the past.

ps: i believe capital punishment has merit. i just find it's rarely doled out to those with the priciest lawyers.

[katiepants]

Not sure why some of you guys think that pregnancy is the "fault" of the woman. Another show of male irresponsibility? Or not enough sex education? Takes two to get pregnant for those that don't know and birth control is also the responsibility of both.

Pro choice does NOT mean pro abortion. It means just as it says, pro CHOICE. If I fell pregnant its highly likely I would not abort. However, should pregnancy in some way severely threaten my health or even my life then the CHOICE to terminate would be a welcome one.

If its my body that is in the state of pregnancy then it is my choice what to do about it. Sure I will take advice from my partner but ultimately it is my decision. Until the day I squirt that baby out I consider it to still be a part of my body and MY rights lie with MY body.

It does happen, and its a shame, that some irresponsible couples choose to use abortion as birth control but thats no reason to take away everyone else's right to freedom of choice.

[steffie]

What really surprises me that ANYBODY in the adult business could be Pro Life. Why on earth would you want to put your believe on me?

You choose to be in the Adult Business

I personally choose not to have an abortion, however

I WOULD NOT TELL YOU what to do with your life!!

Thats Pro Choice. Let us choose what to do with our life and our bodies.

Freedom, Pro Choice, Let us choose!

[StacyCat]

1) there needs to be better birth control options, and free avalibility of them.

2) I am pro choice, I dont think the government has any right to say what I can and cannot do to my body. However, if it came to that situation, I dont think I could go through with it. but it is my right to choose.

3) if the guys arent prepared to take responsibility for accidents, then dont fuck. we all know that birth control isnt 100%, but you made the choice.

4) anyone that goes in for more than one abortion needs to be seriously counseled. Accidents happen, however, if they arent using any freaking protection, then they are fucked up themselves.

[cherrylula]

Originally posted by [Labret]


Then after you calf it and decide to take off with some Mexican, dont come crying for child support.

Its YOURS.... remember?

aahahahahaha my beautiful best friend who I thought was in married bliss the past year and a half, well that sounds just like something the now EX husband is saying to her. Funny.

Even funnier that during their first marital problems she moves out for a couple months, moves back in and all seemed great. She tells the world she is pregnant. The stories begin to change. She files for divorce and well her ex called me a week ago and it turns out she has been fucking some other guy since January (the huge $$ wedding was barely last october) and now she is not only divorcing her husband, she tells him she is not sure if it is his as her "condom" story was bullshit.

I am pro choice in the legal sense, but having never been a whore myself I do not think using abortion as birth control is right. This friend of mine decided to have this kid mostly because she has had probably a dozen abortions or so (nobody really knows) and fears she may not be able to have a healthy child.

Its sad, and I will go as far as saying its almost a mental problem, girls who have abortions every year. On the other hand, I see abused and neglected children all the time and think aside from abortion laws people should require some sort of LICENSE or fucking permit to have kids. KIDS having kids. Its out of control. I am so sick of seeing young girls in tight jeans and little tops with their titties flopping out pushing STROLLERS down the street. Its disgusting.

There are young girls who don't know shit about the world and life in general, but they can take a shot in the uterus and stand in line at the welfare office -- totally legal. Yet the same young girls (depending on their age of course) cannot vote, gamble, drink legally and all that stuff. But they can have a fucking kid. Unreal.

But hey, KARMA is gonna getcha.

[Sly_RJ]

Originally posted by mika

- mentally or physically ill mothers
etc

Please explain this.