If your servers get stolen from your hosting company, who should be liable? - GoFuckYourself.com

Masterchief · 10-16-2007, 09:49 PM

So about two weeks ago, my hosting company had their datacenter broken into, and they made off with thousands of dollars in MY equipment. I never would have imagined something like this ever happening, so I never thought to get any type of insurance on it, but I'm still on the hook for paying dell for the servers.

for nearly a week the hosting company told me it was some sort of network issue, and they gave me a bullshit ETA. eventually they told me there was a break in, and gave me the number to contact the detective that's handling the case. the detective tells me that he thinks it's an inside job since all the survalence equipment was taken as well.

so who should be liable for this? me or the hosting company?

Juicy D. Links · 10-16-2007, 09:50 PM

them........................

BoyAlley · 10-16-2007, 09:51 PM

Hosting Company's insurance should handle it.

Assuming they have any.

Either way it's their bill.

Any hosting company that can have servers stolen from their datacenter is probably teh sucks bad.

Never heard of anything like that happening, anywhere, before. LOL.

baddog · 10-16-2007, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoyAlley

Never heard of anything like that happening, anywhere, before. LOL.

Actually, I seem to recall something like this happening several years ago. A datacenter was broken into, I believe an employee took off with the equipment . . . . cologroup was the host I think.

Masterchief · 10-16-2007, 10:01 PM

There's more details here: http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?p=4745440 if anyone cares to read more into it.

baddog · 10-16-2007, 10:01 PM

Myles was a name that was involved . . .

pr0 · 10-16-2007, 10:02 PM

what about likewhoa, didn't someone take off with equipt in that case as well?

either way, it should be covered under the datacenters fucking insurance

who was this host, please tell us now!

Phil21 · 10-16-2007, 10:05 PM

Ugh, that sucks. CIHost I take it?

The host *should* take care of it, no questions asked, and should be doing absolutely whatever is in their power to make you happy. Unfortunately this does not seem to be the case. I can even imagine the embarrassment of this happening.

However, you may be surprised. Co-located equipment is completely under your insurance liability, as I'm sure the contract you signed states clearly. In fact, if you're buying any amount of space (e.g. multiple cabinets) most providers will require you to carry business liability insurance for both damage you may do to their stuff, and cases like this. For example, if a tornado hits the datacenter and wipes out everything in - you are going to be liable, the hosting company's insurance is not going to cover any of your equipment. In this case, the company is probably going to go under anyways, which is why it's important to ensure you're covered on your end.

The fact is though, any hosting company that wouldn't immediately be footing the bill no questions asked in this situation does not deserve to be in business.

Since this was in Chicago, let me know if you need any immediate help for an interim solution. We have plenty of spare equipment around and I would be happy to help you out if needed.

-Phil

BoyAlley · 10-16-2007, 10:06 PM

Uhm.

I read that thread you linked to.

This happened before, just last year?

Both times, someone DROVE THROUGH A WALL?

wtf kind of shit hole datacenter is this?

Sly · 10-16-2007, 10:19 PM

The other thread kind of amazes me. The responses from various clients. They mention this happening last year and yet they continued to stay with the same company and lose their equipment yet again... really amazing.

They should have brought in Fido the dog for security, would have been a great upgrade...

V_RocKs · 10-16-2007, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil21

Ugh, that sucks. CIHost I take it?

The host *should* take care of it, no questions asked, and should be doing absolutely whatever is in their power to make you happy. Unfortunately this does not seem to be the case. I can even imagine the embarrassment of this happening.

However, you may be surprised. Co-located equipment is completely under your insurance liability, as I'm sure the contract you signed states clearly. In fact, if you're buying any amount of space (e.g. multiple cabinets) most providers will require you to carry business liability insurance for both damage you may do to their stuff, and cases like this. For example, if a tornado hits the datacenter and wipes out everything in - you are going to be liable, the hosting company's insurance is not going to cover any of your equipment. In this case, the company is probably going to go under anyways, which is why it's important to ensure you're covered on your end.

The fact is though, any hosting company that wouldn't immediately be footing the bill no questions asked in this situation does not deserve to be in business.

Since this was in Chicago, let me know if you need any immediate help for an interim solution. We have plenty of spare equipment around and I would be happy to help you out if needed.

-Phil

I want to have your babies Phil

gentoo · 10-16-2007, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masterchief

So about two weeks ago, my hosting company had their datacenter broken into, and they made off with thousands of dollars in MY equipment. I never would have imagined something like this ever happening, so I never thought to get any type of insurance on it, but I'm still on the hook for paying dell for the servers.

for nearly a week the hosting company told me it was some sort of network issue, and they gave me a bullshit ETA. eventually they told me there was a break in, and gave me the number to contact the detective that's handling the case. the detective tells me that he thinks it's an inside job since all the survalence equipment was taken as well.

so who should be liable for this? me or the hosting company?

You are paying them to colocate your server in there data center, in that regards you are paying them for there services including the security. That is amazing that they are refusing to not pay for your server, take it to court you will win.

Tempest · 10-16-2007, 10:43 PM

them....

baddog · 10-16-2007, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gentoo

That is amazing that they are refusing to not pay for your server, take it to court you will win.

Oh? I guess you have seen and read the contract. That gives you an unfair advantage over the rest of us.

Masterchief, you have a copy of the contract we can all read?

gentoo · 10-16-2007, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

Oh? I guess you have seen and read the contract. That gives you an unfair advantage over the rest of us.

Masterchief, you have a copy of the contract we can all read?

You are right I should not asume that they will be liable in there contract but anyone who colocates should really take note of this and make sure that the place you colocate with can be held responisble for stolen servers.

baddog · 10-16-2007, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gentoo

You are right I should not asume that they will be liable in there contract but anyone who colocates should really take note of this and make sure that the place you colocate with can be held responisble for stolen servers.

I believe Phil suggested it would most likely say exactly the opposite. Let me read that again.

Quote:

However, you may be surprised. Co-located equipment is completely under your insurance liability, as I'm sure the contract you signed states clearly. In fact, if you're buying any amount of space (e.g. multiple cabinets) most providers will require you to carry business liability insurance for both damage you may do to their stuff, and cases like this. For example, if a tornado hits the datacenter and wipes out everything in - you are going to be liable, the hosting company's insurance is not going to cover any of your equipment. In this case, the company is probably going to go under anyways, which is why it's important to ensure you're covered on your end.

Yep, pretty sure that is what he means. And I would accept Phil's comments as being pretty accurate.

Masterchief · 10-16-2007, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

Oh? I guess you have seen and read the contract. That gives you an unfair advantage over the rest of us.

Masterchief, you have a copy of the contract we can all read?

the relevant part is:

Quote:

b. C I Host assumes no liability for damage to, or loss of, the equipment or Customer property resulting from any cause
whatsoever, except as a result of C I Host's gross negligence or willful misconduct.

seeing as it's the second it's happened, i think the whole "negligence" clause comes into effect.

minusonebit · 10-16-2007, 11:11 PM

I will NEVER do business with them again. And thats all I can say, due to the existence of a non-disclosure agreement.

baddog · 10-16-2007, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masterchief

the relevant part is:

seeing as it's the second it's happened, i think the whole "negligence" clause comes into effect.

Well, legally negligence and gross negligence are not the same thing.

Gross negligence would be leaving the doors open and a handcart available.

Someone ran a car though the wall? How do you prevent that?

baddog · 10-16-2007, 11:31 PM

FWIW: I am not trying to bum you out or hate, just being realistic from a legal perspective.

Can you get a lawyer to take on the case? Of course.

Can you get a lawyer to take on the case on a no recovery/no fee basis? Doubtful.

goldmine · 10-16-2007, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masterchief

So about two weeks ago, my hosting company had their datacenter broken into, and they made off with thousands of dollars in MY equipment. I never would have imagined something like this ever happening, so I never thought to get any type of insurance on it, but I'm still on the hook for paying dell for the servers.

for nearly a week the hosting company told me it was some sort of network issue, and they gave me a bullshit ETA. eventually they told me there was a break in, and gave me the number to contact the detective that's handling the case. the detective tells me that he thinks it's an inside job since all the survalence equipment was taken as well.

so who should be liable for this? me or the hosting company?

im 100% sure its ePass' fault...

LoL

minusonebit · 10-16-2007, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

Someone ran a car though the wall? How do you prevent that?

Gas stations have those metal pipes filled with concrete around the pumps to prevent exactly this situation.

Phil21 · 10-17-2007, 01:09 AM

Baddog is right in that it could go either way in court. Proving gross negligence is a rather difficult bar to surpass, and thus it's probably not even worth doing unless you want to take it on for the principle of the matter.

In general though, it might be easier in this particular case since it's happened before, and a number of other issues with this company.

I still cannot fathom a hosting company not immediately notifying customers and trying their ass off to mitigate fallout on this though. It seriously baffles me!

If this goes to court, the hosting company has already lost 500 steps previously to it getting that far. All companies have shit happen, but it really comes down to how you deal with the situation (and take steps to make sure that situation doesn't happen again).

Best of luck to you! And thanks for the kind comments folks

-Phil

GreyWolf · 10-17-2007, 01:33 AM

They obviously never heard of data center security - or it was an inside job.

Either way, the hosting company is responsible.

mike-al · 10-17-2007, 02:46 AM

Ughm, ever been inside a real NOC? It's like Fort Wayne... You can't go 10 feet without an ID, key card on everything, and have a bunch of equipment going out the door? Must have been some real shitty place... all surveillance equipment stolen? Dont think that would be possible in a real NOC... sorry to hear this and good luck

who · 10-17-2007, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike-al

Ughm, ever been inside a real NOC? It's like Fort Wayne... You can't go 10 feet without an ID, key card on everything, and have a bunch of equipment going out the door? Must have been some real shitty place... all surveillance equipment stolen? Dont think that would be possible in a real NOC... sorry to hear this and good luck

Of course it's possible... it just narrows the potential suspects down to the people who have access.

pimpD · 10-17-2007, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike-al

Ughm, ever been inside a real NOC? It's like Fort Wayne... You can't go 10 feet without an ID, key card on everything, and have a bunch of equipment going out the door? Must have been some real shitty place... all surveillance equipment stolen? Dont think that would be possible in a real NOC... sorry to hear this and good luck

All the data centers I've been in have been like this. Very strict lockdown in there.

I really hope you have all your shit backed up. What a shitty place to blame YOU on an inside job. The security camera harddrives should not be accessible by just any employee. What happened to alarm systems? Pathetic excuse if you ask me.

Mickey Mouse · 10-17-2007, 03:12 AM

I feel very sorry for you. I would assume the hosting company should have insurance, they SHOULD. Yet, if not, you are screwed. Doesn't matter what WE think. Sounded fishy though even before you mentioned what the detective said. Likely the owners weren't in on it, but they probably know who did it.

I guess it pays to go with a reputable hosting company. I know I'm paying more per month than I should as there are many much much cheaper companies out there, but the company I have been with seems very reputable and I'm willing to pay the extra for the peace of mind.

directfiesta · 10-17-2007, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gentoo

You are paying them to colocate your server in there data center, in that regards you are paying them for there services including the security. That is amazing that they are refusing to not pay for your server, take it to court you will win.

Ever got your coat stolen from a restaurant checkroom ????

It is the equipment of the client and he has the responsability of taking insurrance ( a floatter ) on it.
If you leave your boat in a marina over winter, you cancell your insurrance ????

The DC could be held responsable for damages, if it is proven that they were negligent and didn't adhere to standard security measures.

tranza · 10-17-2007, 06:42 AM

Off course they are liable!

kacy · 10-17-2007, 06:58 AM

I think the DC and host both have liablility here. They should both have insurance to cover theft however.
*edit* is there a contract in this case?

PowerCum · 10-17-2007, 07:20 AM

How is that someone can get your server out of a datacenter?

When I have to go to take a look at my company servers I have to pass several security scans and there is no way to get even a keyboard out of the datacenter if there is no signed paper from me or my partner.
Same happens with all of our workers.

Unless your servers were hosted at someone's basement, that kind of stuff should not happen.
In any case, the liability is for the company you signed the contract with... or the company you are paying invoices to (remember that a valid and paid invoice has the same validity as a signed contract in most of the cases).

TeenCat · 10-17-2007, 07:25 AM

oh man thats what i say art of hacking ... wish you to get everything solved!

sortie · 10-17-2007, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masterchief

So about two weeks ago, my hosting company had their datacenter broken into, and they made off with thousands of dollars in MY equipment. I never would have imagined something like this ever happening, so I never thought to get any type of insurance on it, but I'm still on the hook for paying dell for the servers.

for nearly a week the hosting company told me it was some sort of network issue, and they gave me a bullshit ETA. eventually they told me there was a break in, and gave me the number to contact the detective that's handling the case. the detective tells me that he thinks it's an inside job since all the survalence equipment was taken as well.

so who should be liable for this? me or the hosting company?

Nobody steals this type of shit except the people who work there.

The pawn shop does not take webservers!

Nobody's looking in the "Penny Saver" listing to buy a web server.

Any decent crooks who broke into that place would look around and say "damn this sucks, nothing in here we can sell" and leave with nothing.

10-16-2007, 09:49 PM	#1
Masterchief Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 530	If your servers get stolen from your hosting company, who should be liable? So about two weeks ago, my hosting company had their datacenter broken into, and they made off with thousands of dollars in MY equipment. I never would have imagined something like this ever happening, so I never thought to get any type of insurance on it, but I'm still on the hook for paying dell for the servers. for nearly a week the hosting company told me it was some sort of network issue, and they gave me a bullshit ETA. eventually they told me there was a break in, and gave me the number to contact the detective that's handling the case. the detective tells me that he thinks it's an inside job since all the survalence equipment was taken as well. so who should be liable for this? me or the hosting company?

10-16-2007, 10:05 PM	#8
Phil21 Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ICQ: 25285313 Posts: 993	Ugh, that sucks. CIHost I take it? The host should take care of it, no questions asked, and should be doing absolutely whatever is in their power to make you happy. Unfortunately this does not seem to be the case. I can even imagine the embarrassment of this happening. However, you may be surprised. Co-located equipment is completely under your insurance liability, as I'm sure the contract you signed states clearly. In fact, if you're buying any amount of space (e.g. multiple cabinets) most providers will require you to carry business liability insurance for both damage you may do to their stuff, and cases like this. For example, if a tornado hits the datacenter and wipes out everything in - you are going to be liable, the hosting company's insurance is not going to cover any of your equipment. In this case, the company is probably going to go under anyways, which is why it's important to ensure you're covered on your end. The fact is though, any hosting company that wouldn't immediately be footing the bill no questions asked in this situation does not deserve to be in business. Since this was in Chicago, let me know if you need any immediate help for an interim solution. We have plenty of spare equipment around and I would be happy to help you out if needed. -Phil __________________ Quality affordable hosting.

10-17-2007, 01:09 AM	#23
Phil21 Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ICQ: 25285313 Posts: 993	Baddog is right in that it could go either way in court. Proving gross negligence is a rather difficult bar to surpass, and thus it's probably not even worth doing unless you want to take it on for the principle of the matter. In general though, it might be easier in this particular case since it's happened before, and a number of other issues with this company. I still cannot fathom a hosting company not immediately notifying customers and trying their ass off to mitigate fallout on this though. It seriously baffles me! If this goes to court, the hosting company has already lost 500 steps previously to it getting that far. All companies have shit happen, but it really comes down to how you deal with the situation (and take steps to make sure that situation doesn't happen again). Best of luck to you! And thanks for the kind comments folks -Phil __________________ Quality affordable hosting.

10-17-2007, 02:46 AM	#25
mike-al Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 691	Ughm, ever been inside a real NOC? It's like Fort Wayne... You can't go 10 feet without an ID, key card on everything, and have a bunch of equipment going out the door? Must have been some real shitty place... all surveillance equipment stolen? Dont think that would be possible in a real NOC... sorry to hear this and good luck __________________ Delete this account, i am done here

10-17-2007, 03:12 AM	#28
Mickey Mouse Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 104	I feel very sorry for you. I would assume the hosting company should have insurance, they SHOULD. Yet, if not, you are screwed. Doesn't matter what WE think. Sounded fishy though even before you mentioned what the detective said. Likely the owners weren't in on it, but they probably know who did it. I guess it pays to go with a reputable hosting company. I know I'm paying more per month than I should as there are many much much cheaper companies out there, but the company I have been with seems very reputable and I'm willing to pay the extra for the peace of mind. __________________ I'm not a pornographer, I'm an ARTIST! Currently traveling southeast Asia shooting Asian girl and ladyboy content. e-mail: support [at] baregirls . com

10-16-2007, 09:50 PM	#2
Juicy D. Links So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: N.Y. -Long Island -- Posts: 122,992	them........................

10-16-2007, 09:51 PM	#3
BoyAlley So Fucking Gay Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 19,714	Hosting Company's insurance should handle it. Assuming they have any. Either way it's their bill. Any hosting company that can have servers stolen from their datacenter is probably teh sucks bad. Never heard of anything like that happening, anywhere, before. LOL.

10-16-2007, 10:01 PM	#5
Masterchief Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 530	There's more details here: http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?p=4745440 if anyone cares to read more into it.

10-16-2007, 10:01 PM	#6
baddog So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: the beach, SoCal Posts: 107,089	Myles was a name that was involved . . .

10-16-2007, 10:02 PM	#7
pr0 rockin tha trailerpark Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: ~Coastal~ Posts: 23,088	what about likewhoa, didn't someone take off with equipt in that case as well? either way, it should be covered under the datacenters fucking insurance who was this host, please tell us now!

10-16-2007, 10:06 PM	#9
BoyAlley So Fucking Gay Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 19,714	Uhm. I read that thread you linked to. This happened before, just last year? Both times, someone DROVE THROUGH A WALL? wtf kind of shit hole datacenter is this?

10-16-2007, 10:19 PM	#10
Sly Let's do some business! Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 31,329	The other thread kind of amazes me. The responses from various clients. They mention this happening last year and yet they continued to stay with the same company and lose their equipment yet again... really amazing. They should have brought in Fido the dog for security, would have been a great upgrade...

10-16-2007, 10:43 PM	#13
Tempest Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: May 2004 Location: West Coast, Canada. Posts: 10,217	them....

10-16-2007, 11:11 PM	#18
minusonebit So Fucking Banned Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: [email protected] Posts: 7,391	I will NEVER do business with them again. And thats all I can say, due to the existence of a non-disclosure agreement.

10-16-2007, 11:31 PM	#20
baddog So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: the beach, SoCal Posts: 107,089	FWIW: I am not trying to bum you out or hate, just being realistic from a legal perspective. Can you get a lawyer to take on the case? Of course. Can you get a lawyer to take on the case on a no recovery/no fee basis? Doubtful.

10-17-2007, 01:33 AM	#24
GreyWolf So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,036	They obviously never heard of data center security - or it was an inside job. Either way, the hosting company is responsible.

10-17-2007, 06:42 AM	#30
tranza ICQ: 197-556-237 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: BRASIL !!! Posts: 57,559	Off course they are liable! __________________ I'm just a newbie.

10-17-2007, 06:58 AM	#31
kacy Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: So Cal Posts: 877	I think the DC and host both have liablility here. They should both have insurance to cover theft however. edit is there a contract in this case? __________________ ~Kacy Last edited by kacy; 10-17-2007 at 07:00 AM.. Reason: adding something

10-17-2007, 07:20 AM	#32
PowerCum CjOverkill Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Woldwide Posts: 1,328	How is that someone can get your server out of a datacenter? When I have to go to take a look at my company servers I have to pass several security scans and there is no way to get even a keyboard out of the datacenter if there is no signed paper from me or my partner. Same happens with all of our workers. Unless your servers were hosted at someone's basement, that kind of stuff should not happen. In any case, the liability is for the company you signed the contract with... or the company you are paying invoices to (remember that a valid and paid invoice has the same validity as a signed contract in most of the cases). __________________ CjOverkill Traffic Trading Script Free, secure and fast traffic trading script. Get your copy now

10-17-2007, 07:25 AM	#33
TeenCat Too lazy to set a koala Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: CZ/EU forever! Posts: 16,139	oh man thats what i say art of hacking ... wish you to get everything solved! __________________ 6bot / Coming again very soon! Svit Zlin Radio 24/7!