ozzymandius

I have seen a bunch of threads on GFY that have talked about various conspiracy theories and what not. Some of these have raised valid points, others are just a total waste of energy and veer too much into useless speculation.

I am opening up a whole new thread on this topic because this is VERY VERY IMPORTANT. Adult webmasters tend to be progressive thinkers so it makes sense to unleash this info here.

Every concerned citizen owes it to themselves to find out what really happened on 9/11. I have spent the last 8 months or so researching. No cockamamie conspiracy theories, just cold hard facts. Here is one of the best and most objective webpages on the subject that I have found to date. It builds on many other professionally researched sites. It is informationally very dense. Bookmark it and go through it some time. There is so much info here that it would take a serious person a good few months to go through it all. I know most people don't have that kind of time to spare. But at least look at some of it and your eyes will start to open.

This is a time in history when ignorance is NO LONGER bliss!

The site points ONLY to MAINSTREAM sources (no crackpot sources) and those sources are enough to prove that you have been LIED TO!!

9/11 may turn out to be the single most significant event in modern history.

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/c...line/index.htm

Here is the author's conclusion for those that want a quick summary:



Author's thoughts and conclusions

There's no such thing as a truly objective news source; everyone has a point of view consciously or subconsciously. As much as I've tried to keep my point of view out of this, the very act of choosing some articles to include and others to leave out is very subjective. So what's my take on all of this? I believe the Bush Administration is guilty of one of the greatest crimes in history. They were either 1) criminally negligent and deserve impeachment, or 2) had foreknowledge of 9/11 and did nothing to stop it, or 3) actively manipulated events to make sure 9/11 happened just the way they wanted it. I believe the last is most likely, with elements of all three being true for different actors. But if any of the three are true, we as inhabitants of this Earth need to make our voices heard soon or we will inevitably see more of the same in the future. I frankly don't know if bin Laden is still a CIA asset or was duped, or if the role of Israel was observational or active or what. But clearly there are more elements involved than just al-Qaeda (the ISI, Pakistan's intelligence agency, for one). As for Clinton, it looks like elements within the government prevented him from eliminating bin Laden. The military and intelligence agencies had lacked a unifying enemy since the end of the Cold War. That's just one reason why certain factions within government would see bin Laden more valuable alive and free even before Bush came to power. I am sure that within both the Clinton and Bush Administrations a majority of government officials in all governmental agencies were doing and continue to do good work with the best of motives, but it only takes a small number of higher ups to foil that work (look at what happened to the Minnesota FBI office for a blatant example of this).

I welcome constructive suggestions and feedback . This timeline is a work in progress. If you have additional articles from "mainstream" sources (preferably with weblinks), I'd be happy to consider including them. Links and/or corrections to existing articles, statements that need supporting, would be great too. But please only send new articles that fit into the below categories. There are many interesting events I could include, such as post-9/11 and post-anthrax terrorist attacks and warnings, the coming war with Iraq, the Afghanistan war details and so on, but the timeline is already way too big to handle a wider scope. Please pass on or link or mirror all or part of this webpage, as long as you properly credit and link back here. Spread the word!

Dawgy

if i spent as much time working as u crazy people do researching bullshit, id be a rich man.

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Brown Bear

It looks like MassiveCock went and registered himself a new username.

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Kris

i subscribe....

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Pornwolf

Someone is out to get me.

My phone is bugged.

They have people watching me.

Sooner or later whoever it is is going to get me.

I think its...

I think it's...

Cheshire!

I hope it's Cheshire! Come and get me baybee!

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theking

I for one will look the site over, but I have already made my own conclusions based upon a number of sources of information. I seriously doubt that the information provided by this site will cause me to change my mind. My conclusion is basically the authors number 1 conclusion, though I won't blame it all on the administration, but also those, that from the bottom up in the various agencies, did not serve their agencies or the administration well and ultimately the country. They all blew it, big time.

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ozzymandius

Gee guys, all you have to do is go to the site and read. Is that so hard? No UFOs, no remote controlled planes, no Illuminati, none of that crackpot shit.

Just links to mainstream articles, CNN, NBC, ABC etc that PROVES YOU HAVE BEEN LIED TO!!

Do you consider the above media sources conspiracy sources?!?!?

dacash

i have been reading the time line events of 9/11 and to tell you the thruth i'm starting to question what is going on.

I don't know why is hteir so much different stories of what happen, and why doesn't the US goverment gives a full report of what happen.

If Bush had time to read a goat story for 25 minutes will the 2 towers were hit. It makes me ask questions...


But any hooo you will never know the truth because 90% of the people will believe anything that the US goverment, and will never question their desicitions.

bah ok i'm goign to bed

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Massivecock

Ozzy.

I know and you know ..

But some of these people are so brainwashed, they literally
are walking zombies under the control of mass media propagana.

Intellects and people who think and read know the truth.

Some people on this board are of a obviously low intelligence
which prevents them from rationalizing, connecting events, examining evidence, researching, reading, hypothesizing or any other mental activity that requires effort.

Im glad im not one of them.

And I'm Happy to see your not eigther.

Bravo My friend.

Massivecock

A video was shot of President Bush's visit to the Booker School on 9-11. This is where he was when the planes crashed.

http://emperors-clothes.com/indict/bvl.htm

URL for this article is http://emperors-clothes.com/indict/vid.htm


=======================================
Video of Bush at Booker Proves 9-11 Attack Was No Surprise
by Jared Israel
[Posted 16 September 2002]
=======================================

A video was shot of President Bush's visit to the Booker School on 9-11. The Booker School put a link to that video up on their Website for awhile, then took it down. Copies of the video are available and you can view it. For instructions on viewing full video, go to
http://emperors-clothes.com/indict/bvl.htm

A short excerpt can be seen at
http://emperor.vwh.net/bushvideo/bushshort.ram

The best way to access this is right click on the link above and save the file to your hard drive ("save target as"). It's about 7 Megs. Then click on the icon and play it. You'll need RealPlayer, which you can download for free at
http://www.real.com/products/player

** This Short Clip Is a Smoking Gun **

In the short clip Bush is seen sitting in a classroom observing a reading lesson. Immediately Andrew Card, his Chief of Staff, hurries over and whispers something in his ear. Bush makes no reply. Andrew Card rushes off.

What it is wrong with this picture?

According to the official account, Andrew Card whispered that a second plane had hit the World Trade Center and there was a national emergency.

Here's how Bush described that moment at a California Town Hall meeting January 5th:

"Andy Card came and said, 'America is under attack.'" (1)

If his Chief of Staff tells the President the country is under attack, the President would discuss it. He would ask questions. Demand more information. Leave the room. Meet with advisers. Do *something*. But Bush just sat there.

The Chief of Staff is the President's *employee*. If he tells the President, "America is under attack" the President would *give him orders.* But Bush said nothing - not one word. And Andy Card didn't wait for instructions; he rushed away.

What does this mean?

It means Andy Card did not expect a response.

It means he cannot have been informing Bush that an *unexpected* national attack was underway.

It means he was giving Bush an update on the progress of a plan of which Bush was already aware, and he had to get back to work.

And as for Bush, later in the short clip he is seen smiling and giving a pep talk to the children. In the full version, available at http://emperors-clothes.com/indict/bvl.htm
you can see him cheering the students and then giving them a longer pep talk when the lesson is over.

This is not the picture President stunned by a horrific event and confronted with an unexpected national emergency. This is the picture of treason.

UnseenWorld

Please, please, PLEASE... Take this to a conspiracy website and leave history to the historians. The earth is not hollow, we did land on the moon, and the CIA didn't ram two jets into the twin towers, or whatever your wacky theory is. I'll believe otherwise when an academic historian takes the idea seriously enough to offer proof. Until then, why bother?

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Massivecock

How do you know we landed on the moon?
where's the proof?

Because the evidence the Us Gov showed was EXTREMELY FLAWED! note the word: extremely.
--
Historians?
Ha!

UnseenWorld

"Historians? Ha!" ?

Historians are doing actual research while you are browsing around conspiracy websites.

And how do you know you live in the USA and are not in a drug induced stupor?

Massivecock is in a drug induced stupor... prove me wrong!

Actually, that would explain a lot.

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Pornwolf

We still don't really know what happened to JFK 4 decades ago. So my guess is we still have half a century to go before we begin to understand this one. Or until the Bush family is nowhere near an office.

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Massivecock

Ohh your so quick to judge?
You know nothing about me, or what research I have or have not done.
---
What is your definition of research?
what is considered research and what isnt?
---

jimmyf

You and me. Another nut case...

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jimmyf

YES YES YES,,,

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jimmyf

research yep that's just what you need...to that thing'e between your ears. you are tooooooooooo much.

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Massivecock

Hypothetically if Bush & Co were criminally charged and convicted for the attack, I wonder what rational who would use to justify your behavior, words and opinions you have expressed on this subject.

dantheman

I just have one thing to say about 9-11,

Some evil people took over some of our planes and FLEW them into buildings with people in them!

Now from someone who has been affected by terrorism(sp) up close( beirut marine barracks 1983 just a nut with a huge truck full of tnt! that killed MANY of my friends)

I can tell you flat out that these people will drive,fly,ride, and walk a bomb into thier emenies! These folks think that it is thier duty to kill us(usa and allies) because they think we are wrong and they are right, and that that god will praise them.


Stop looking for things that are not there. we have enemies in the world that want us DEAD!

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mic

Not long time ago when CIA sell drugs in black communities to support "contras" it also was "conspiracy theory" and nobody believe this

Massivecock

True indeed.

ozzymandius

Interesting responses to my original post.

Let me just point out and reiterate though that the website I posted is NOT, I repeat NOT a conspiracy website!!!

It is simply a website that constructs a timeline of 9/11 from MAINSTREAM news articles (CNN, MSNBC etc. ) and links to said articles. The reader can thus easily see all the contradictions that exist between what was reported and what the "official" government story is.

The contradictions are so extremely glaring, that only a TOTAL IDIOT would still end up believing the government story.

I repeat, this is NOT, NOT, NOT a conspiracy website. Check it out:

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/c...line/index.htm

theking

I will step to the front, call me a total idiot. I believe the government story and their story is that they blew it big time. It is an easy story for me to believe.

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ozzymandius

TheKing, I don't blame you. It is easy to be spoonfed something and simply live by it and I don't mean that in a condascending manner. I just went along with the flow for years in the same way. It takes effort and courage to want to delve into uncomfortable subjects at a deeper level.

History is replete with examples of entire populations that simply believed the spoonfeeding from the powers that be. From the rule of the Caesars to kings and queens, to Hitler and Stalin. And many of those same societies thus sowed the seeds of their own destruction. It was not too long ago that the Soviet empire collapsed under the weight of its own propaganda. Millions of people in that country woke up one day and wondered what the hell happened? Where did their society go? They sleepwalked to a disaster.

Today a similar thing is happening in the US. We are being spoonfed and coralled into a series of wars that may last a generation or more. The US is positioning itself to take over all the major oil supplies in the world, from Iraq and Saudi Arabia to Venezuala to Colombia and even in the Caspian sea. Great for us, right? As long as we can still drive our SUVs and eat our Big Macs. That's what I used to think. But the writing in on the wall. History dictates that whenever one country blatantly tries to take over the resources of the world, other countries band together and push back. When that really happens, it won't be pretty.

I for one don't want to wake up one day and ask "Where did my great country go? How did we fall from the world's only superpower to just another 3rd world, bombed out disaster?".

Hustlin Entertainment

Chesire belongs to......who.......no one.....??????...Pornwolf????

Honeyslut

Don't forget Marilyn Monroe's murder so she would not pull the plug on JFK and his assasination plan of Castro.

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theking

I am not spoon fed. I read virtually everything including the conspiracy theories and I draw my own conlcusions and though I haven't gone over it in detail, the link that you posted, thus far, contains nothing new. I will spend some more time there, but it is old stuff really. I have already formed an opinion, the Authors 1st possibility. The government blew it from the ground floor to the top floor. He prefers his third possibility. I don't. As far as your scenario for the future of your country. If history repeats itself we will fall from power at some point in time, but sleep soundly because it will not happen in your lifetime.

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Honeyslut

I don't believe America is mentioned in the bible prophecy of the last days . That alone would leave one to believe a major diaster is going to happen one day..

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ozzymandius

At the risking of further irking people with stuff they don't want to hear, at least consider these NON CONSPIRACY points. By NON CONSPIRACY I simply mean that these points have been reported in the MAINSTREAM press at length and anyone can verify this by doing a quick search of CNN, NYTIMES etc:


- The Bush and Bin Laden families have very close historical ties and up to 9/11 were principal shareholders in The Carlyle Group, a major defense contractors. Daddy Bush visits with the Bin Ladens whenever he visits the royal family in Saudi Arabia

- The current Bush administration stopped the FBI from investigating Osama's relatives who are currently living near CIA HQ in Virginia. Those same FBI agents are currently suing the Bush administration.

- Osama was trained by the CIA to fight the Russians in Afghanistan. The CIA built the very cave complexes that he supposedly hid in up until last year. He was a CIA asset at least until the late 1980s. As the saying goes, "once in the CIA, always in the CIA".

- The hijackers trained at flight schools in Florida with CIA ties. At least one of the highjackers trained at a US navel air station.

- The FBI had an informant LIVING with two of the hijackers!!!

- FBI HQ in Washington did everything in their power to prevent FBI field agents from investigating the hijackers prior to 9/11 despite MASSIVE evidence that they were up to no good. One field agent even wrote HQ stating that these guys were probably "going to fly a jet into the WTC".

The above are just six very minor points out of SEVERAL HUNDRED similar points. But the above should be enough to at least get any intelligent person to scratch their head and say, "Well maybe this deserves some closer scrutiny.....".

ozzymandius

quote:

________________________________________________
I am not spoon fed. I read virtually everything including the conspiracy theories and I draw my own conlcusions and though I haven't gone over it in detail, the link that you posted, thus far, contains nothing new. I will spend some more time there, but it is old stuff really. I have already formed an opinion, the Authors 1st possibility. The government blew it from the ground floor to the top floor. He prefers his third possibility. I don't. As far as your scenario for the future of your country. If history repeats itself we will fall from power at some point in time, but sleep soundly because it will not happen in your lifetime.
________________________________________________

It might not happen in my lifetime, TheKing, but consider this. Oil is a FINITE resource. Even the best estimates put remaining oil reserves at running out within 30 years. That will likely be in my lifetime, certainly in my children's lifetime. The current war is not about terror but about OIL. Even many mainstreamers admit that much. The US is gunning to monopolize remaining oil reserves. Russia and China know this as do many other industrialized nations. Once America gets a stranglehold on the reserves, possibly just before, these other countries, including some allies will have NO CHOICE but to fight us. They will be painted into a corner. They NEED the oil as much as we do.

Contrary to popular belief, oil is not just something we put in our vehicles. Oil is also your ability to eat. Farm machinery runs on oil and gas. Even if they found an alternative fuel source tomorrow, that would still not solve the need for oil because oil also LUBRICATES (adult webms understand that concept) the machinery of the world. You can't run a machine without oil even if you run it on electricity or some exotic fuel. And technology won't necessarily come up with an alternative anytime soon. The entire system is economically rigged. It's a catch-22. The oil and gas companies prevent any alternative technologies from emerging in their quests for greater profits. The only problem is that OUR ENTIRE SOCIETY is based on this FINITE resource. It's like a snake eating its own tail.

And no, we won't become extinct when the oil runs out. But the species Petroleum Man certainly will be extinct. And the transition decades from Petroleum Man to then next species will be as potentially hellish as the dark ages were several hundred years ago. This is not a paranoid delusion. This is common sense based on examining all the facts. But it does not have to end up that way. People need to wake up and smell the coffee!

Backov

What an amazing level of conversation on this website.. Not.

For those as disgusted by this level as I am, go to slashdot.org and read articles there.. Some of the posters are actually well informed.

The point of my post:

We are NOT running out of oil, yet. When we run out of easily extractable liquid reserves, then comes oil sands.. Oil shale, etc.. Bottom line - as supply goes down, price goes up, thus spurring development of alternate energy sources, for automobiles, that's fuel cells.. For power generation, that's nuclear fission, fusion and others like Hydro and Geothermal.

Get informed conspiracy kids! You make the real ecologists look bad with this highschool level shit.

Cheers,
Backov

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theking

As far as I know we can synthesize now, it is just more expensive to do so, but it is inevitable, for as you yourself stated fossil fuel is not finite. I also think that an invasion of Iraq is strategic positioning. The sky is not going to fall anytime soon.

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ozzymandius

Backov, you are dead wrong. I suggest you go to your local library and read some scientific research on the subject. Start with this research paper:

An Analysis of U.S. and World Oil Production Patterns Using Hubbert-Style Curves," Albert A. Bartlett Department of Physics University of Colorado at Boulder, 80309-0390 Mathematical Geology, Vol. 32, No 1, 2000

And if you want the compressed "cheat notes" then read this:

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/fre...inite_war.html

Rose

If ozzymandius says that it must be true

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ozzymandius

Rose: Ozzymandius does not say this. The mainstream press says this. Check it out for yourself if you don't believe me.

Backov

No, I'm not.

I don't care enough about this to quote studies to you. My comment: You're a fucking dumbass, and I'm going to be laughing my ass off in thirty years as I'm driving my fuel cell powered automobile. It's basic economics buddy. You know, that thing that is keeping you from working at Wendy's?

Never mind, go back to your conspiracies. Don't forget the tinfoil hat!

Backov

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ozzymandius

Tin foil hat in position and protecting me from ignorance radiation!

ozzymandius

... and who said I don't already work at Wendy's?

Rose

Please NOOOOOO. Leave me alone. I am not interested.
Tell Mr.Cock, he might be

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UnseenWorld

More importantly, tell us about yours. I bet it includes a lot more websites and underground newsletters and such than interviews with NASA personnel, astronauts, people involved in the tracking, etc.

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TheFLY

I actually look forward to the day we run out of oil. That would be fantastic. More innovation and less pollution.

As for the lubricant point -- LAME... There are plenty of ways to lubricate without petro. Anyway just for fun: machines don't NEED lubricant -- there are always mechanical workarounds to friction problems.

PornoDoggy

Okay, random thoughts on this thread ...

1. Criminally negligent? Jezez. I think GW is the worst thing to happen to America since the designated hitter, not to mention "Notacrook" - but I don't buy it, even if a part of me wants to. Came into office with a bunch of cold warriors lacking in an understanding of the dangers of today? Yep - but the American people, or the people of Florida, or Anton Scalia put 'em there. Complicity? Nah, I don't think so. This is a plan that even Henry Kissinger would think unethical (and that says a lot).

My opinion? They wanted to work a deal for a pipeline through Afghan, and they relaxed our watch on them as a sign of good faith - a typical diplomatic move, not a criminal action. As I said above, I think they were essentially cold warriors without much of a clue as to the nature of the world today; overall, I think GW intended to focus far more on domestic issues than foreign affairs. Domestically, Reverend Ashhahahahaha had a different agenda, and failed to emphasize antiterrorism.

2. GW's actions on 9/11 are the source of so much speculation and interpretation and extrapolation and bullshit speculation that it makes me want to hurl. Again, I dislike the man and all he stands for intensely - but he did what he was supposed to do - he acted Presidential. He did it by finishing his appearance at the school, and he did it by flying to Offut, and he did it by - and I'm speculating here, - overruling his security wienies and returning to Washington that night.

3. A timeline is purely speculative, even if done by the best of reporters. Few if any Americans can say "I learned of the attacks at 9:01:23 EST." There are far more important things to do for government officials to be doing than keeping a timesheet.

For whatever reason, a great many people feel a need for this to be a conspiracy. The roots of Islamic fundamentalism and the anti-American aspect of it have been visible to the world for years and years. 9/11 was neither the first nor the last shot in this war. I wonder if focusing on Iraq at this time - although now is as good a time as any, because it's a job that needs to be done, and soon - is the correct strategy, but nobody has called to ask me.

You wanna believe it's a conspiracy? Go for it. I could care less. Everybody's got a website - the Nazis and the Klan, the folks from PETA and the Socialist Workers Party, and everybody in between. They all appear to be rational people, they all will present you with what appears to be well thought out research ... but they are nothing more than papers written with an objective in mind, as opposed to research. In short - this "well thought out" stuff represented as research or factual material was prepared by the "true believers," will preach to the choir, and get a big amen from them.

Joe Sixpack

I haven't had the time to check this site out fully yet but so far I'm impressed.

It seems very well researched and very well documented.

Why is it that most Americans seem content to take the word of the government and the mass media?

RMG

just like in the movie "gladiator", and as bush sr. did, they are trying to win and rally the public with war right now....I personally think it's complete bullshit and bush is fucking up the american way. I have already made plans to move to canada (where they are legalizing bud btw). Not that it will fully protect me from Bush's mistakes, but it will be a step foreward.

ControlThy

A) It is easy to accept the information from one source without "wasting" time researching alternative sources.

B) People do not want to know what really happened and rather go on and continue there insignificant lifes. And we need those type of people because otherwise most countries would be in chaos.

This is exactly why the intellectual faction is so small.

Pleasurepays

innacurate reporting does not equate to "the government is reading my brainwaves"

a main stream article the other day about sex.com claimed it got 25,000,000 type ins a day.

so what?

Rochard

There were tens of thousands of people directly involved with the 9/11 attacks. Each and everyone of them has a different story from a different point of view.

The website mentioned above contains statements from various sources around the world, including the Moscow Times. All of these little bits add up to nothing.

One of the reports states that people leaving the WTC after it was hit heard bombs going off. I'm sure they did hear bombs going off and things exploding - A fucking huge airplane loaded with fuel crashed into the WTC and then exploded. Parts of the airplane, on fire, flew right through the WTC and hit God knows what on GOD only knows how many floors. The moment the planes hit the buildings elevators crashed down into the lobby, and flames leaped down these elevator shafts. Within seconds of the crashes the lobbies of these buildings had been blown out because of the flames shooting down these elevator shafts.

Another report claims that the Pentagon's heliport was watched by video cameras 24 hours a day, but failed to record the plane crashing into the Pentagon. If I recall correctly the Pentagon is huge; The video cameras at the heliport were watching the heliport and not watching for planes crashing into the Pentagon that may have been hundreds of yards away.

Some of the terrorists got flight training right here in Phoenix, and the FBI office here caught this and sent a memo to Washington DC. How many memos are sent from the FBI office in Phoenix to Washington every day? Dozens? How many FBI offices are there in the US? Hundreds? Thousands? All sending memos and reports up the ladder. At the time this report meant little. A suspected terrorist was attending flight training school? That's like saying a suspected terrorist is taking medical classes in California. If that was the case, they should close down all of the hospitals in Texas because this suspected terrorist is going to poison hundreds of sick people in a hospital in Dallas? If a suspected terrorist takes classes on driving an 18 wheeler does it mean he's going to drive an 18 wheeler loaded with gasoline into the nuclear plant in Phoenix?

With any incident of this size there are always going to be people that will scream our government is at fault. Yet no one has come forward with a smoking gun saying "The US Government made me do this". It's just like JFK and the moonhoax - No one has come forward because this wasn't done by the US.

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Pleasurepays

i was watching a show on the history channel about the hostage incident in the 70's at the Olympics in Munich where the Isrealies were taken hostage by Palestinians.

what a clusterfuck that was from start to finish.

the worst part was that the Olympic Organizing Committee chairman annouced to the press that everything was fine, the hostages were free and life was perfect.

as that was being reported and printed in most newspapers in the world... all hostages were being shot, blown up and burnt in a shootout at the airport.

a pretty good example of innacurate reporting by major world media.

Conspiracy theorists are simply people suffering from varying emotional issues who pick out information from questionable sources that support their own paranoid delusions of how the world really works.

it is just like religion. it cannot be proven or disproven. evidence that there is no conspiracy just adds fuel to the fire as proof of the depth of the conspiracy.... and so the wheel turns.

Zilla

Just because I am paranoid it doesn't mean they aren't out to get me. I mean, that's what they want you to think!

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(-)Zilla(-)