RAID backup systems (price, etc.) - GoFuckYourself.com

HQ · 09-16-2002, 04:09 PM

I have been pricing a new server and the price with RAID 1 or RAID 5 systems is 2 to 3 times more expensive than a system without it (leasing, not buying). I could not believe RAID cost so much.

Do any of you have a RAID system? How much did it set you back? Please help me get a feel for RAIDs.

salsbury · 09-16-2002, 04:13 PM

RAID is nice. RAID costs more because you're buying lots of drives. RAID5 you're buying at least 1 more drive than you'll get to use as far as capacity is concerned.

it's worth it, though. SCSI RAID is really quite nice. i've heard 3Ware makes a good IDE RAID card, but i haven't had a chance to play with it myself.

Rutopls · 09-16-2002, 04:26 PM

When I was buying servers for my old company we would determine what we needed based on what we are going to be using the server for. A database server would get a different RAID setup then just a file server. If you are unsure of the pros and cons of RAID check out this link it may help:

RAID.edu

Phil21 · 09-16-2002, 04:41 PM

If it's for a webserver, just throw in a 3ware card and a couple matching UDMA drives, and run RAID 1.

figure $150 extra for the drives, and $250 for the card.

Better performance than a 2 disk SCSI RAID1 mirror. no matter what people will try to tell you. SCSI is starting to offer no real advantages other than disk density (i.e. 15 drives per controller) and very fast random access speeds (15k rpm drives). For small RAID setups, all you get is set back some in cost, for most likely less performance.

I used to be a die-hard SCSI fanboy too.

Of course, there are times that SCSI makes very good sense.

-Phil

Backov · 09-16-2002, 04:49 PM

SCSI is VERY good if your system is doing a lot of very intense disk access.. Even the biggest, baddest mofo of an IDE system will be brought to it's knees by certain tasks (usually involving high bandwidth file transfer, copying etc..)

I unfortunately see it happen all the time.. Your cpu is hardly being used, but the computer is almost non-responsive due to way too much disk load.. IDE isn't good at that. It's better at one thing at a time..

That said - I am talking about desktop.. For most servers, IDE is all you need.. And IDE raid is even better.

Cheers,
Backov

HQ · 09-16-2002, 06:19 PM

This is for a webserver that handles websites, all with traffic trading scripts on them.

Check out the prices here at Rackspace:

http://www.rackspace.com/dedicated/r...rver_linux.php

Hardware
Single AMD 1.3 GHz Processor
256MB DDR RAM
20GB EIDE Drive
30GB (30GB incld.) Burstable Bandwidth

Services
24x7 Support
RedHat Linux 7.2 Preinstalled
RackWatch Basic

Monthly $250.00

Hardware
Single AMD 1.53 GHz Processor
256MB DDR RAM
SCSI RAID Controller
18GB SCSI Drive
18GB SCSI Drive
AIT 1 35gig Tape Drive
30GB (30GB incld.) Burstable Bandwidth

Services
24x7 Support
RedHat Linux 7.2 Preinstalled
RackWatch Basic
Weekly Backup w/Email Notification

Monthly $839.00

Hardware
Dual AMD 1.53 GHz Processor
1GB DDR RAM
SCSI RAID Controller Drive
18GB SCSI Drive
18GB SCSI Drive
18GB SCSI Drive
AIT 2 50gig Tape Drive
30GB (30GB incld.) Burstable Bandwidth

Services
24x7 Support
RedHat Linux 7.2 Preinstalled
RackWatch Gold
Weekly Backup w/Email Notification

Monthly $1369.00

And no, I do not work for Rackspace, but I do host with them and I want some advice on what server configuration I should upgrade to. I was going to go RAID, but look at the steep increase in monthly fees as soon as you hit a RAID setup (most notably from the 1st server I listed to the 2nd.)

TFCash · 09-16-2002, 07:20 PM

HQ -

Buy your own hardware and save yourself a ton.

* got prices from pricewatch.com
MB = Tyan S2518UGN $472.75
CPU = 2 x Piii 1.2 $220.00
Ram = 4 x 512MB p133 $128.00
Case = Chenbro RM1U11300 $820
drive = 4 x Hitachi HIDK32DJ-72ME $1340

Total cost $2980.75

Just under $250/mn if you only use it for a year. Gives you around 160GB of raid5 usable webspace once you have all the OS and such loaded, or you can go raid 1+0 and get speed and backup and have around 100GB of space. The case is a bit high, but it has the 4 drives as hot swap, you could get a cheaper case and just have some downtime for drive replacement, you could also go with a cheaper motherboard if you don't want dual CPU's. Likewise if your not going to need the drivespace then downgrade the drives.

Then there is the IDE option

* got prices from pricewatch.com
MB = Tyan Tiger 200T $210
CPU = 2 x Piii 1.2 $220.00
Ram = 3 x 512MB p133 $105.00
Case = Chenbro RM1U3111 $425
drive = 2 x WD1200J 120GB 8MB cache $320

Total Cost $1280

Which works out to just over $100 a month for a 1 year use

Hit me up if you have any more questions.

Tim

HQ · 09-16-2002, 07:30 PM

Yes I would save a ton. It appears that Rackspace makes their money on the high-end systems where you are almost paying for a whole new computer each month.

If I bought my own, where would I host it? I would have to go 'colo'. I want to stay with Rackspace if possible as they handle almost everything for me. It is very nice to know that you can get support within minutes. After hearing all these horrible Rackshack (not Rackspace) stories, I'm scared to move away from Rackspace and thier incredible support.

Pornwolf · 09-16-2002, 09:32 PM

Rackspace is one of the top 5 business hosts now as far as marketshare so I'd be an idiot to say anything bad about them except for the price. Why don't you give one of the many good adult hosts a try. They are the ones that give the better B/W deals and some give comparable levels of service. With the money you save it would justify you buying your own fully loaded box for a colo setup.

HQ · 09-17-2002, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pornwolf
Rackspace is one of the top 5 business hosts now as far as marketshare so I'd be an idiot to say anything bad about them except for the price. Why don't you give one of the many good adult hosts a try. They are the ones that give the better B/W deals and some give comparable levels of service. With the money you save it would justify you buying your own fully loaded box for a colo setup.

I have to host non-adult sites as well. Any other suggestions?

09-16-2002, 04:09 PM	#1
HQ Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 3,539	RAID backup systems (price, etc.) I have been pricing a new server and the price with RAID 1 or RAID 5 systems is 2 to 3 times more expensive than a system without it (leasing, not buying). I could not believe RAID cost so much. Do any of you have a RAID system? How much did it set you back? Please help me get a feel for RAIDs.

09-16-2002, 04:13 PM	#2
salsbury Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 1,070	RAID is nice. RAID costs more because you're buying lots of drives. RAID5 you're buying at least 1 more drive than you'll get to use as far as capacity is concerned. it's worth it, though. SCSI RAID is really quite nice. i've heard 3Ware makes a good IDE RAID card, but i haven't had a chance to play with it myself. __________________

09-16-2002, 04:49 PM	#5
Backov Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Cat Detector Van Posts: 1,600	SCSI is VERY good if your system is doing a lot of very intense disk access.. Even the biggest, baddest mofo of an IDE system will be brought to it's knees by certain tasks (usually involving high bandwidth file transfer, copying etc..) I unfortunately see it happen all the time.. Your cpu is hardly being used, but the computer is almost non-responsive due to way too much disk load.. IDE isn't good at that. It's better at one thing at a time.. That said - I am talking about desktop.. For most servers, IDE is all you need.. And IDE raid is even better. Cheers, Backov __________________ <embed src="http://banners.spotbrokers.com/button.swf" FlashVars="clickURL=http://banners.spotbrokers.com" quality=high pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/index.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="120" height="60"></embed>

09-16-2002, 09:32 PM	#9
Pornwolf Drunk and Unruly Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hollywood Posts: 22,712	Rackspace is one of the top 5 business hosts now as far as marketshare so I'd be an idiot to say anything bad about them except for the price. Why don't you give one of the many good adult hosts a try. They are the ones that give the better B/W deals and some give comparable levels of service. With the money you save it would justify you buying your own fully loaded box for a colo setup. __________________ I've trusted my sites to them for over a decade... Webair, bitches.

09-16-2002, 04:26 PM	#3
Rutopls Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 199	When I was buying servers for my old company we would determine what we needed based on what we are going to be using the server for. A database server would get a different RAID setup then just a file server. If you are unsure of the pros and cons of RAID check out this link it may help: RAID.edu

09-16-2002, 04:41 PM	#4
Phil21 Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ICQ: 25285313 Posts: 993	If it's for a webserver, just throw in a 3ware card and a couple matching UDMA drives, and run RAID 1. figure $150 extra for the drives, and $250 for the card. Better performance than a 2 disk SCSI RAID1 mirror. no matter what people will try to tell you. SCSI is starting to offer no real advantages other than disk density (i.e. 15 drives per controller) and very fast random access speeds (15k rpm drives). For small RAID setups, all you get is set back some in cost, for most likely less performance. I used to be a die-hard SCSI fanboy too. Of course, there are times that SCSI makes very good sense. -Phil

09-16-2002, 06:19 PM	#6
HQ Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 3,539	This is for a webserver that handles websites, all with traffic trading scripts on them. Check out the prices here at Rackspace: http://www.rackspace.com/dedicated/r...rver_linux.php Hardware Single AMD 1.3 GHz Processor 256MB DDR RAM 20GB EIDE Drive 30GB (30GB incld.) Burstable Bandwidth Services 24x7 Support RedHat Linux 7.2 Preinstalled RackWatch Basic Monthly $250.00 Hardware Single AMD 1.53 GHz Processor 256MB DDR RAM SCSI RAID Controller 18GB SCSI Drive 18GB SCSI Drive AIT 1 35gig Tape Drive 30GB (30GB incld.) Burstable Bandwidth Services 24x7 Support RedHat Linux 7.2 Preinstalled RackWatch Basic Weekly Backup w/Email Notification Monthly $839.00 Hardware Dual AMD 1.53 GHz Processor 1GB DDR RAM SCSI RAID Controller Drive 18GB SCSI Drive 18GB SCSI Drive 18GB SCSI Drive AIT 2 50gig Tape Drive 30GB (30GB incld.) Burstable Bandwidth Services 24x7 Support RedHat Linux 7.2 Preinstalled RackWatch Gold Weekly Backup w/Email Notification Monthly $1369.00 And no, I do not work for Rackspace, but I do host with them and I want some advice on what server configuration I should upgrade to. I was going to go RAID, but look at the steep increase in monthly fees as soon as you hit a RAID setup (most notably from the 1st server I listed to the 2nd.)

09-16-2002, 07:20 PM	#7
TFCash Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 1,738	HQ - Buy your own hardware and save yourself a ton. * got prices from pricewatch.com MB = Tyan S2518UGN $472.75 CPU = 2 x Piii 1.2 $220.00 Ram = 4 x 512MB p133 $128.00 Case = Chenbro RM1U11300 $820 drive = 4 x Hitachi HIDK32DJ-72ME $1340 Total cost $2980.75 Just under $250/mn if you only use it for a year. Gives you around 160GB of raid5 usable webspace once you have all the OS and such loaded, or you can go raid 1+0 and get speed and backup and have around 100GB of space. The case is a bit high, but it has the 4 drives as hot swap, you could get a cheaper case and just have some downtime for drive replacement, you could also go with a cheaper motherboard if you don't want dual CPU's. Likewise if your not going to need the drivespace then downgrade the drives. Then there is the IDE option * got prices from pricewatch.com MB = Tyan Tiger 200T $210 CPU = 2 x Piii 1.2 $220.00 Ram = 3 x 512MB p133 $105.00 Case = Chenbro RM1U3111 $425 drive = 2 x WD1200J 120GB 8MB cache $320 Total Cost $1280 Which works out to just over $100 a month for a 1 year use Hit me up if you have any more questions. Tim

09-16-2002, 07:30 PM	#8
HQ Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 3,539	Yes I would save a ton. It appears that Rackspace makes their money on the high-end systems where you are almost paying for a whole new computer each month. If I bought my own, where would I host it? I would have to go 'colo'. I want to stay with Rackspace if possible as they handle almost everything for me. It is very nice to know that you can get support within minutes. After hearing all these horrible Rackshack (not Rackspace) stories, I'm scared to move away from Rackspace and thier incredible support.