If Rudy Giuliani Becomes President, I Am Going to Burn a Flag at the State Capitol

[minusonebit]

You heard it here first. For good measure, I'll burn an Oklahoma Flag followed by the United States flag if our electoral votes end up going to that son of a bitch. Its been a while since we have had a good, 'ole fashioned flag burning here in the United States. Its about time we change that.

Oklahoma Statutes Citationized
Title 21. Crimes and Punishments
Chapter 9 - Offenses Related to Flags
Section 372 - Mutilation, Treating with Indignity or Destroying Flag - Definitions
Cite as: O.S. §, __ __

A. Any person who shall contemptuously or maliciously tear down, burn, trample upon, mutilate, deface, defile, defy, treat with indignity, wantonly destroy, or cast contempt, either by word or act, upon any flag, standard, colors or ensign of the United States of America, shall be guilty of a felony.

B. The word "defile" as used in this section shall include public conduct which brings shame or disgrace upon any flag of the United States by its use for unpatriotic or profane purpose.

C. The terms "flag", "standard", "colors", or "ensign" of the United States as used in this section shall include any picture, representation or part thereof which an average person would believe, upon seeing and without deliberation, to represent the flag, standard, colors or ensign of the United States of America.

Historical Data

Laws 1919, c. 72, p. 113, § 2; Laws 1967, c. 298, § 1; Laws 1971, c. 1, § 1, emerg. eff. Feb. 17, 1971; Amended by Laws 1997, H.B. No. 1213 c. 133. § 176, emerg. Effective Date Amended to July 1, 1999 by Laws 1998, c. 2 (First Extraordinary Session), §§ 23-26, effective June 19, 1998; (superseded document available).

[minusonebit]

[StickyGreen]

He won't become President...

[marketsmart]

You and me both brother...

[GreyWolf]

Originally Posted by minusonebit

A. Any person who shall contemptuously or maliciously tear down, burn, trample upon, mutilate, deface, defile, defy, treat with indignity, wantonly destroy, or cast contempt, either by word or act, upon any flag, standard, colors or ensign of the United States of America, shall be guilty of a felony.

B. The word "defile" as used in this section shall include public conduct which brings shame or disgrace upon any flag of the United States by its use for unpatriotic or profane purpose.

C. The terms "flag", "standard", "colors", or "ensign" of the United States as used in this section shall include any picture, representation or part thereof which an average person would believe, upon seeing and without deliberation, to represent the flag, standard, colors or ensign of the United States of America.

Whacky stuff. Doubt there is any flag big enough to cover the murders, rape and pillaging done by the nations who make laws to "protect" their bloody flags - fantasy world.

[CyberHustler]

I'm still waiting for someone to say something like... "are you going to burn his passwords too?"

[minusonebit]

Originally Posted by GreyWolf

Whacky stuff. Doubt there is any flag big enough to cover the murders, rape and pillaging done by the nations who make laws to "protect" their bloody flags - fantasy world.

The interesting thing is that

You wanna see something else cute? That just one section of Oklahoma's bullshit flag laws. Go up one level, and pull ORC Title 29 and then scroll down to Chapter 9.

Here is what you'll find. This entire chapter is patently unconstitutional, except for §375. I think it'd be fun to violate it a few times (what better place than the statehouse steps?) and get it overturned. Clearly, no one has tried to challenge it yet (if they had, their cases would show up below the statute) and someone really needs to challenge it.

Chapter 9 - Offenses Related to Flags

§ 371. Penalty for Using Flag in Advertising

§ 372. Mutilation, Treating with Indignity or Destroying Flag - Definitions

§ 373. Penalty

§ 374. Display of Red Flag or Emblem of Disloyalty

§ 375. Raising Certain Flags Over Tax-Supported Property Prohibited - Penalty

The last one I can understand because it covers taxpayer funded property only.

Oklahoma Statutes Citationized
Title 21. Crimes and Punishments
Chapter 9 - Offenses Related to Flags
Section 374 - Display of Red Flag or Emblem of Disloyalty
Cite as: O.S. §, __ __


Any person in this state, who shall carry or cause to be carried, or publicly display any red flag or other emblem or banner, indicating disloyalty to the Government of the United States or a belief in anarchy or other political doctrines or beliefs, whose objects are either the disruption or destruction of organized government, or the defiance of the laws of the United States or of the State of Oklahoma, shall be deemed guilty of a felony, and upon conviction shall be punished by imprisonment in the Penitentiary of the State of Oklahoma for a term not exceeding ten (10) years, or by a fine not exceeding One Thousand Dollars ($1,000.00) or by both such imprisonment and fine.

Historical Data

Laws 1919, c. 83, p. 133, § 1; Amended by Laws 1997, H.B. No. 1213 c. 133. § 178, emerg. Effective Date Amended to July 1, 1999 by Laws 1998, c. 2 (First Extraordinary Session), §§ 23-26, effective June 19, 1998 (superseded document available); Amended by H.B. 1009X (1st Ex. Sess. 1999), § 95, emerg. eff. July 1, 1999 (superseded document available).

Oklahoma Statutes Citationized
Title 21. Crimes and Punishments
Chapter 9 - Offenses Related to Flags
Section 371 - Penalty for Using Flag in Advertising
Cite as: O.S. §, __ __


Any person or persons, corporation or company, who shall use the flag or the coat of arms of the United States, or any pattern, imitation or representation thereof, either by printing thereon, or attaching thereto, any advertisement or device for the purpose of gain or profit, or as a trademark or label, shall be guilty of misdemeanor.

Historical Data

Laws 1919, c. 72, p. 113, § 1.

So let me change this: If Rudy Giuliani becomes president, I am going to burn a United States flag on the statehouse steps, while wearing/waving a red flag and after handing out flyers printed on images of United States flags that tell about Giuliani and my fond dislike of him. That way I can violate every section of the act with one act.

[WarChild]

Well at least that'll be funny when someone beats you up.

[minusonebit]

We have other laws on the books. If I add a few swear words, I could turn it into a 1st Amendment case as well.

Oklahoma Statutes Citationized
Title 21. Crimes and Punishments
Chapter 36 - Crimes Against Religion and Conscience
Section 905 - Profane Swearing - Punishment
Cite as: O.S. §, __ __


Every person guilty of profane swearing is punishable by a fine of One Dollar ($1.00) for each offense.

Historical Data

R.L. 1910, § 2402.

[TurboAngel]

That would be very sad.

[GreyWolf]

Originally Posted by minusonebit

So let me change this: If Rudy Giuliani becomes president, I am going to burn a United States flag on the statehouse steps, while wearing/waving a red flag and after handing out flyers printed on images of United States flags that tell about Giuliani and my fond dislike of him. That way I can violate every section of the act with one act.

Just watch out for the Good Ol' Boys, the coke-snorting Sherriff and the bent coroner who signs the death certificate as "death by drowning while waving a flag in the town square" The mentality level sure don't go much above that when flags are involved.



Love this bit - the waving of a red flag at a bull

Any person in this state, who shall carry or cause to be carried, or publicly display any red flag or other emblem or banner, indicating disloyalty to the Government of the United States or a belief in anarchy or other political doctrines or beliefs, whose objects are either the disruption or destruction of organized government, or the defiance of the laws of the United States or of the State of Oklahoma, shall be deemed guilty of a felony, and upon conviction shall be punished by imprisonment in the Penitentiary of the State of Oklahoma for a term not exceeding ten (10) years, or by a fine not exceeding One Thousand Dollars ($1,000.00) or by both such imprisonment and fine.

Sounds a fine and rational piece of legislation with modest penalities They frightened of something or is it just another law of oppression?

It's ironic that many people gave their lives for the symbol of a flag and under often "just" circumstances. It's the "call to arms" symbol which we supposed to respect and support for some vague undefined reason - because we were told. At the same time, while waving flags, there has been genocide, torture, oppression, slavery, murder, rape ad nausea - and that's still happening now. What we may see as a flag can be a symbol of terror to others - expecially in victims and survivors.

There may be a couple of "innocent" countries, but most have nothing to be proud of in their flags and sure is nothing 'honorable' about em.

[pocketkangaroo]

If you want to change things, why not do something? Donate to another candidate, volunteer for another candidate, run yourself. I don't really give a shit if someone burns a flag, I just think it's pointless and a waste of time.

[Azoy?]

he's not going to become president.
the moment he opens his mouth and actually speaks you can see he's got less brains then a dehydrated bee bee.
he seems to make sense in the large scheme of things but not when broken and looks at seriously.

[Dirty Dane]

Arnold4President!

[minusonebit]

Originally Posted by GreyWolf

Just watch out for the Good Ol' Boys, the coke-snorting Sherriff and the bent coroner who signs the death certificate as "death by drowning while waving a flag in the town square" The mentality level sure don't go much above that when flags are involved.



Love this bit - the waving of a red flag at a bull



Sounds a fine and rational piece of legislation with modest penalities They frightened of something or is it just another law of oppression?

It's ironic that many people gave their lives for the symbol of a flag and under often "just" circumstances. It's the "call to arms" symbol which we supposed to respect and support for some vague undefined reason - because we were told. At the same time, while waving flags, there has been genocide, torture, oppression, slavery, murder, rape ad nausea - and that's still happening now. What we may see as a flag can be a symbol of terror to others - expecially in victims and survivors.

There may be a couple of "innocent" countries, but most have nothing to be proud of in their flags and sure is nothing 'honorable' about em.

People used to believe in the flag because it used to stand for something worth supporting and worthy of respect. It not stands for the things you mentioned, so alot of people now don't give it much respect. People who exploit patriotism for various motives cannot stand this, if people don't respect the ultimate symbol of patriotism - the flag - anymore, then they cannot continue their exploitation of patriotism. I think the patriotism exploiters know the country is collapsing, know that it no longer stands for what it once did, know that people are starting to figure it out and that terrifies them so they pass laws like the ones I have highlighted here. Its a last-ditch attempt to keep control.



I wonder if that satisfies the requirements of both sections all in one nice flag. Look, with that, I have defiled the flag AND publicly displayed a red flag supporting a belief in anarchy. Now what would be interesting is if I'd hit the trifecta and get prosecuted for a third charge if I burned it.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

If you want to change things, why not do something? Donate to another candidate, volunteer for another candidate, run yourself. I don't really give a shit if someone burns a flag, I just think it's pointless and a waste of time.

It's much easier to cry like a baby than actually make a difference.

[minusonebit]

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

If you want to change things, why not do something? Donate to another candidate, volunteer for another candidate, run yourself. I don't really give a shit if someone burns a flag, I just think it's pointless and a waste of time.

Oh, I already have donated plenty. And I will be working on a campaign once the primaries are over with and we finally know who we are voting for. Haven't decided which. I might end up working for Ron Paul if he gets it, would be the first time I have EVER supported a Republican, which is scary, but I think he is about as close as we are going to get to a perfect candidate. Depends on who the Libertarians run... but I am not to impressed with any of the front runners in my own party.

[escorpio]

That would be cool especially if you were wrapped in the flag when you did it.

[Voodoo]

Welcome to the DSA (Divided States of America).

[AsianDivaGirlsWebDude]

Originally Posted by escorpio

That would be cool especially if you were wrapped in the flag when you did it.

Haha, you beat me to it...although the picture you used is a famous photo from the Vietnam era of a Buddhist monk setting himself on fire in protest of the war.

Therefore, I shall add the following photo to this very important political discourse:



Maybe as a primary election warm-up, MinusOneBrain could poke himself in the eye every time Rudy mentions his grandstanding in the days following 9/11 as a sign of leadership...

ADG

[escorpio]

Originally Posted by AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

Haha, you beat me to it...although the picture you used is a famous photo from the Vietnam era of a Buddhist monk setting himself on fire in protest of the war.

Therefore, I shall add the following photo to this very important political discourse:



Maybe as a primary election warm-up, MinusOneBrain could poke himself in the eye every time Rudy mentions his grandstanding in the days following 9/11 as a sign of leadership...

ADG

Much better!