dig420

fuck yeah, and when a guy got knocked down the other guy got to stand right over him and start pounding as soon as he was off his knees. What Jack Dempsey did to Jess Willard would be considered a criminal assault these days lol... boxing was TOTALLY out of control in those days, a real bloodsport.

smoke

dig I understand all of your points. To me the fight would come down to balance and footwork. But really this is an endless argument. We will never see a world class boxer face off against a top mma guy because the money will never be there and the risk is to great for both sports.

Drake

Yeah, it's interesting in its own right. And I bring it up maybe to add some context or perspective to the discussion. Maybe we've actually "been there done that" to some extent as far as "chaotic" fighting is concerned and people found that it didn't work or that it was better off much more restricted. I wonder if this says anything about the future of MMA. But then again times change, people change, and MMA is still a different animal than boxing until one guy drops.

Mutt

i loved boxing growing up - there would be top fights on network TV on Saturday afternoons on CBS and also ABC - sometimes championship fights but even in the early 70's those fights were going to close circuit TV.

Boxing has lost most of the top African American athletes to the NFL mostly and maybe some to the NBA. 40 years ago a guy like Ray Lewis would have turned to boxing instead of football probably.

__________________

dig420

Well we'll never see it because we know what will happen. In the cage an MMA fighter will kill a boxer with no MMA training, and in the ring a boxer will kill an MMA guy period. Nobody wants to spend millions to see what most people know already will happen. It won't become interesting enough to spend money on until the MMA payscale is high enough to tempt world class boxers to spend a couple years training MMA and THEN step in the cage.

lol I'm silly enough to say that in a cage, I will destroy Floyd Mayweather, and I'm no MMA superstar. What's he going to do once I get him down? On the other hand, I outweigh Floyd by about 50 lbs and in a boxing ring with boxing rules he'd beat me like he owned me. Like I was an infant. That's the situation we're in right there.

dig420

yep and most white guys NEVER box because they have too many options that don't include major brain damage, even if you're hugely succesful as a boxer or have major talent. Mexicans are going to take over until they assimilate and then it'll be another ethnic group, it's a tradition with boxing. Irish guys have had their turn, Jewish guys have had their turn.. black guys have been in it so long because it's MUCH more difficult to assimilate when your skin is a different color. Who can even tell an Irish guy by looking at him anymore?

smoke

I know I'll be bashed for this but I see mma as a fad right now. We seem to be stuck in a reality tv world where street cred rules all. Its cool to have tribal tattoos and keep it real this and that whatever. Honestly I see it as one big hype machine. Im sure mma will always be around in one way or another but I think it will phase out eventually. That just my opinion.

valetudo

True, but what you're doing is still effective as a strategy. Being on bottom sidemount eating punches hurts, whether they're Fedor-esque or Nick Diaz style. You may be recovering, but he isn't. If he didn't come prepared then he's done.

Yea, Dana says he will do a lot of things. He shouldn't be the face of MMA but unfortunately he is. I *think* the last I heard was Dana offering Floyd 2 million and Floyd declined. Kermit stepped up and said he would do it for that and after that I heard nothing about it.


Yea but Chuck's different than a boxer in many ways. Chuck was a wrestler before he was a striker. He was even better than Tito(who beat Matt Hughes in Abu Dhabi - I know, weight difference, but still.) Chuck still gets taken down from time to time, but he can instantly get up. He hasn't had to defend himself on the ground yet. A year or two of wrestling just won't cut it. A boxer's still gonna be a great puncher in MMA, but his abilities will be greatly diminished. And Chuck has been the one fighter who can consistently do this because I'm under the impression that his wrestling is better than his striking. He's just hard as piss to KO, even harder to takedown and keep down, and hits really hard.

I also think the problem with teaching a boxer "just to stop a takedown" is an issue in it's own. These guys like Chuck who are good at takedowns and win by striking, do get taken down sometimes, but it's okay.. They've had many, many years of training in wrestling and jiu-jitsu and are fully prepared if the fight does hit the ground.

When I first started training BJJ, it was at a pure BJJ school and it was really fun. I train under the old head instructor from Sakurai's Mach Dojo now and even the grappling hurts. I went from thinking I was pretty good on the ground and in good shape to totally in shock.

I think boxing probably is harder to train for the casual guy, but these guys love to box which basically means they don't mind getting punched. Same with MMA. Your cardio can be top of the line, but once you start getting hit and it's not something you've been training to take for years, then fuck it, you're done. If you're still breathing fine in a few rounds I'll be surprised.

Mutt

yeah my dad would tell me about what it was like in the 40's and 50's - all the different immigrant groups who came to America had great fighters, Italians, Jews, Irish, Slavs, - people think Jews are by nature or even genetics this meek bookworm group of people, there were great Jewish fighters - affluence and education makes people more refined not genetics.

__________________

Drake

This is right on point. Irish, Jews, Italians had there day when they were the underclass. Now there is winter sports, biking, and canoeing to take up over getting your skull reamed in. Mexicans have been well represented in the lower weight classes for years now. Once enough of them get on American diets and training, they'll begin to dominate all classes alongside Eastern Europeans.

valetudo

I think it's something like a fad, too. I think what's happening is it's brought to the mainstream, picked up a lot of fans and some of those will get tired of it. Either way, I think in the end it'll have a larger fan base than it did before.

I hate the reality show format. It pisses me off to see the card filled with so many 5 fight TUFers, but oh well. It pays the bills I suppose. Not all fighters are the shaved head, tribal tattoo, beanie wearing billy badass types. They get on my nerves too.

dig420

Exactly... try telling that Benny Leonard or Barney Ross lol

The rule is that boxers come from the groups that have the least alternative. Boxing is a hard, hard sport and people that have alternatives generally take them. Valetudo, I pretty much agree with everything in your last post. I don't know Mach Dojo but I've trained at Gracie Academy and Combat Club and it gets rough, but it's still fun. So far I've had a hole kicked in my lip you could put your finger thru, some of the tendons in my bicep have seperated from my shouler, I've torn all the ligaments in my right ankle and have to be careful when I walk and I have a slap tear in the labrum of my shoulder and a torn rotator cuff. Oh yeah, I also have bone chips in my wrist.

Isn't BJJ fun?? :P

dig420

Who's going to watch Pac-MAB tonight?

I gotta admit, Barrera is my man-crush, I've loved him for years. If he can't win I hope he goes out on his shield with honor and calls it a day.

valetudo

lol, goddamn. that's an impressive resume of injuries. So far for me..i've had a torn meniscus in my right knee. torn ligament at my right thumb(my shit basically looks like it's falling out of socket once i bend it back so far). a NASTY cut on my foot by somebody's jagged/untrimmed toenail.

Mach Dojo is Hayato Sakurai's school in Japan btw

valetudo

I'm looking forward to this one. PBF is fighting Hatton next, right? I also heard Chavez Jr. should be fighting someone soon.

dig420

Ah man that's sick... the Gracies would publically shame you if you didn't have good hygeine on the mat. No shower, body odor, uncut nails -- expect to get called up on front street and put on display lol, it's NASTY rolling with someone who doesn't take care of the details that keep us all healthy.

I forgot to add that I got a broken nose almost a year ago, took six months off after surgery and I'm currently building up my ballsac to get back on the mat. A lot of my injuries occurred because I refused to tap and the Gracie family encouraged that. I'm a little older and a LOT wiser now, and if I get back on the mat I'm going to treat it as exercise rather than a fight to the death. I'll probably get my ass kicked a lot more but maybe I can stay in one piece for more than a month at a time...

smoke

I'll be watching and Im going with Pac. I think Barrera is done not just physically but imotionally. Well see if he has one left but I dont think so.

Drake

This entire post is funny

valetudo

Yeah, there's no toenail and fingernail inspections in any gym I've been to but I'm not saying I would be against it. That shit's nasty. I've heard a lot of people get called out by instructors or higher belts to trim their nails, but you think it would be some common knowledge/courtesy.

There's nothing worse than, "I think you're bleeding..." You look down and see your foot is covered in blood and the only logical explanation is the guy's nasty toe nails.

I used to roll too hard in the early white belt days too. At some point I realized it wasn't the olympic qualifiers and started training smarter.

iSMOKE

Anything you say means nothing. You're first line fucked up all credibility. Championship boxing match is 15 rds??? Wtf are you talking about? That's Ali/Foreman/Sugar Ray shit...You obviously dont know what you're talking about.:1or glaugh

__________________