Barefootsies

The premise being that you can trust them. Which you can to a degree.

My friends I can trust with my house, car, money laying around, etc. I never would have to worry about shit coming up missing, or them out 4 wheeling in my truck just to tear it up. Or hide money laying around because they are coming over.

That said, don't hire friends.

Regardless of their dire need for money because of divorce, car break down, job lay off whatever. They tend to start out doing good, but over time you start noticing the amount of work drop off. Your have to start monitoring them, or riding them to get shit done.

I do not expect them to work at my level in a day, but if they can't accomplish what I can in a day, to their week, it's time to go. After repeated warnings, had to fire them.

Sure I hear the boo fucking hoo's about them needing money. But I told them I need 100% return on my investment, just like the models. You may not be able to do it at first, but I expect you to progressively get better over time. Not worse. After coaching, talking to, and explaining this on more than one occasion....

You have to go.


Anyone else had this issue? Discuss.

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Barefootsies

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st0ned

Yeah it tends to ruin friendships..

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MaDalton

true - had that before

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jonesonyou

Yes. Working with Friends always ends bad.

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Barefootsies

He did not take it well, but I told him I would rather have his friendship then all this grief over the dollar. While I appreciated his situation, it was obvious that he could not keep up. Either by skill, or will.

He explained that he had a lot going on, so he let things slide figuring he could make it up later, but never could. Then it become so overwhelming, that he just gave up. Even though he wanted the money, and I was paying him. He said he felt bad.

I asked simply, "Could you get away with something like this at any other job that you know of, or have ever worked?" He said, "No", I replied, "And what makes you think you could here?"

**crickets chirping**

I said, "Exactly. Sorry. You've got to go Amigo".

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Angelo22

well... never mix personal life and work i guess?

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Barefootsies

"I told you B... Friends is friends. This is business."

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Red Ezra

Barefootsies

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Axzar

You just need to find the right friend. It does not always end in disaster.

Barefootsies

True.

When it comes down to working online, without supervision, and being self motivated to get work done,...

It takes a special breed.

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techtony

never work with family either. Nobody fucks you like family.

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Barefootsies

Luckily I do not have many of them left, and they do not know shit about computers. Much less the more advanced stuff. So they would never stand a chance of getting hired for work other than lawn boy.

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techtony

good idea, I'll hire family as gardners and housekeeping, wonder what they'll think of the orgies?

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Barefootsies

Already have sister doing laundry, and housekeeping. Any of the rest will have to do lawn care.

Once you borrow, and do not pay back a certain amount of money. You become my servant. She does these things weekly w/o additional pay.

My sister knows what goes on, and it doesn't bother her.

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GreyWolf

Definately had this issue Barefootsies

There appears to be a problem with the human species when they can't separate business from personal relationships. It's often the same in familes involved in a business - and can be worse (tho some family businesses can be excellent).

There are also other people - hard to call them friends, but who seem to be more "friends of friends". Most a fine and no problem - BUT, as the radar expands wider there is a tendency to reach swamplife level and encounter the scum of the earth who are often pleasant and charming, but can be the biggest users and abusers on the planet. These type of people may be very well qualified - they can be professionals (accountants/lawyers blah) or have expertise in aspects of the net - but trusting these people with any element of a business is like spending your spare time playing Russian roulette.

It is also very sad to see the behavior of some people when they see elements of money (ie a few million upwards, but it does not have to be in the millions range) - that is when you will see sheer unadulterated greed and selfishness ooze out. This can be fairly stunning and very disappointing - especially if you give them just enough rope to hang themselves.

Good news is, that level of swamplife are relatively rare - or they do not have the ability or "expertise" to mess. I've only experienced two in decades of biz life - and currently working on the second now and with the object of achieving some elements before seeing him in a jail cell. Greed can be an awesome Achilles heel

Suppose the moral is - Everyone is human and that needs a degree of scepticism whether they are family, trusted friends or employees. Everyone can get strange ideas and follow a path both they, and you will regret.

Barefootsies

Thanks for the story and feedback.

I sucks because you get to a point where the money's nice. But for those who haven't gotten there... it brings out the greed in a lot of people around you. In real life, the clubs, co workers, models, whatever.

You just want these people to play by the rules. Do your fucking work.

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tony286

if you expect people to be like you,friend or not. Its not going to work.

Barefootsies

I do not expect them to be like me. My work ethic is far beyond most I know personally. It's my business so I have no issue with long hours, weekends, and driving myself towards that brass ring. Even though I am there, and can live comfortably not taking on another project I still keep pushing forward.

Most 'working for the man' are not like that.

I've toyed with the idea of bringing on a business partner, or a more vested long term profit sharing but... they have to bring something to the table. I.E. skills I do not have, but fill a void. Or a chunk of cash to buy in.

But even then you do not know if they will be as driven in the long term. Not everyone's as hungry. Also not a lot of online people that I know of in SW Michigan. There are some to the north in G.R.. One or two in Lansing, and the rest in Detroit, or Chicago.

Right now I would settle for someone who does 100% work for 100% pay.

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StuartD

Conversely... don't go work for friends.
What you think may be a top notch friend may not be a top notch employer.

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Barefootsies

True dat Stewie.

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TheJimmy

beat me to it...sad but totally true.

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Aquarius

Friends or family and business don't work very well.

Barefootsies

Yep.

It sucks because at times you would like to be able to help your friends, or family when the situation's dire. But at the same time you have a business to run. When they are not getting their shit done, and asking if they can 'run down to the store for a minute', and it's been 2 hours. Or they are leaving early because, 'they have something to do'.

I do not give a flying fuck if you are getting you work done. But if you are getting further behind every day, and you are wanting the bonuses like you are a top performer then I do have an issue.

Being a friend, or family member will give you an extra week maybe. But you will still get fired. My business will take the priority. I am not paying you to go fuck off fishing, or getting your drink on when you are behind.

What is more insulting is when they ask for 'advances' and are behind. My first response is, "You're fucking kidding me right"?

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GreyWolf

Have to say Barefootsies - if the initial desire/motivations of a potential partner are good, honest, transparent and they do bring something to the table via qualification - this can be very good. It may be luck more than anything, but never had any problems with partners/co-directors - they are all fundamentally honorable people with at least basic business accumen and bring their own experience/expertise into play.

It may only be my , but can't see a lot of advantage in having a partner who just dumps finance into a biz and does little else - what is more relevent are more rolled up shirtsleeves attending to whatever aspects need managing/developing. If someone wants to dump funds into a company and get shares - different matter - they can be dealt with along with other shareholders - but they are not really "partners". It's better if folks can actually offer some work towards the development/profitabilty of a corp.

It can be hard sometimes getting the right people to be partners/directors. It's a balance of keeping the wrong people out - tho they may appear very interested in working - there are plenty of them :-) There are also professionals (lawyers etc) who are interested - but, can you work with them and how good would they actually be etc?? Got one scenario now where the company is sitting on assets worth millions (no capital injection needed) and plenty opportunity to expand that greatly, but the problem is getting the right people who are honest, willing to work and can bring something to the table. It's hard to believe it has been so difficult to get that team together - appears to be a new trend in folks re "how not to work" But.. it's getting there - slowly.

MarkMan

oh, yaa.. i had a disaster when i tried to get my friends into this biz.. a few years ago..

I became social assistance, and they would do nothing and get paid for it..

and when the money ends.. your friendship ends as well .. even thought without the money you were friends for 13 years..


so .. unless your friends are in the biz..don't try to help!!

Basic_man

Tried this 2 times.. never worked out!

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J. Falcon

Cant work with neither friends nor family. Everyone seems to know this and accept it as a fact, yet people continue to make this mistake over and over again. Myself included.

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tenderobject

its actually hard to hire friends to do work for you. i have had 2 designers inhouse but unfortunately something happened then i decided to kick him out in my house after a few months we talked and fix the problem. he still work for me but in their home so i atleast minus the burden... but im still having problem talking to him to atleast work what i want him to do. atleast practise what i say and it will end up for their own sake.. im not sure what the fuck he is doing right now but well, i will just minimise what work i should send him since comprehension is a problem with him damnit don't forget "he keep on ignoring what he needs to do" atleast 50% of it he isn't interested to learn. fuck that

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Barefootsies

Amen to that brotha.

I also agree that it's best to bring in someone with a skill set. I have a production company that was started about 3 years back. That business partner had the money, little else. Which is about what he's done in 3 years... little else.

Will probably buy him out next year completely.

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Barefootsies

I think it's the crying about how they need help, or money, or 'want to learn the biz'. They see my lifestyle, and want the same.

But of course they do not see the hours, days, week and both commitment and sacrifice that got me there.

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Barefootsies

Well for me I had to give them the, "I'd rather remain friends than continue this broken working relationship". They took it pretty good all things considered.

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V_RocKs

I had to fire a friend...

This industry seems so simple to me... But he just couldn't pick it up.

Barefootsies

Agreed.

Especially if they are working for a person/company with some experience. If you are a lone wolf noob in this biz you have to read, research, read some more, trial and error for years.

But if you have someone showing, and telling you, and you still can't do it. There is a "will" issue. Not a "skill" one.

Plus I'll never understand why certain people are worker bees. They have to be told what to do when, punch a clock, even if miserable, they want the security over the freedom. In this business, as long as you get your work done.... you can work morning, midnights, whatever. As long as your shit's done for the week. I don't care, and it pays the same. Finish it however you have to.

But for some insane reason... some people just can't be left to their own devices.

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calibra

Well, I've been working for one of my best friends for about 4 years. It's not a big piece of work that I do but it requires about 45 minutes or 1 hour about 25 days a month. And he pays me for that. Never had we any problems.

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Barefootsies

Congrats.

Maybe in limited partnerships, or arrangements like that where you are doing a small chunk of work it CAN work. However it seems when friends (from stories I've heard, had, and even experiences on this board) play a more pivotal role, work full time, or have to carry a bigger piece of the pie that it becomes problematic.

It's not to say it can't work. However, it seems 90% of the time it can't work because of any number of things.

-Friend not treating it like a job.
-Excessive time off, out of office, or not working.
-Doing half work, or less, and expecting full pay.
-Thinking the job is all playing with the ladies, and little true work.

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J. Falcon

Exactly. Everyone wants to make money but hardly anyone is ready to make the sacrifice.

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royaljelly2

I've been screwed about 2-3 times with friends.
I currently have a friend on board and she's great. So at least one worked out!

Barefootsies

1/4



Exactly right. I cannot count the number of times I've heard "how easy my life is" because apparently I can, "just sit in my underwear all day and watch money roll in".

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carol.prime

business is business...

for me, its okay to hire your friend, family or relatives because you can always give your full trust to them, one more thing they surely concerns to your business. but before you get on to them, tell them frankly that it's purely business and you'll act as a boss and them as an employee. and of course the benefits of the business would be given to employees deserve to have those... maybe you didn't talked about that thing, that's why it happened.
My mother and my aunt, have been together in a garment business for 25 years and it's good thing that the business has a highly profit than what they are expected..

good luck to you!!!

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Libertine

You're a camwhore?

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Barefootsies

Nope. No one would pay to see me in my undies.

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Fap

i thought this was the first rule of business heh..
Only leads to conflict

Barefootsies

Indeed.

But I guess when they lose their jobs, need money for their divorces, and cry in your beer you think 'maybe' you can help. I am not a believer in just giving you cash because you need it. You need to work for it.

A lot of people in my life think that when you loan them money, they are on the fore-never loan program.

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CarlosTheGaucho

Friends and biz are two separate things, beeing able to drink with someone for years doesn't mean anything about the work ethics, moral or effort they are able to pull, and unfortunately sometimes you don't really know unless you try, so the best to be very careful and think twice.

I did worked for a friend for a year and a half in the past and there was never a single problem, with mutual respect and beeing tuned on the same frequency we never had issues, we understood that once it's the work time it's no time to chat or bullshit with each other, keeping it to the point and keeping the personal stuff outside of work hours is a must.

Yes, I would work with friends, but only with those that I really know well from the work end.

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nikki99

friends of familiars neither

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Brother Bilo

It depends on the personality of the friend. I have a buddy that I would work with in a second because I know he works his ass off. I am also one who is quick to sling a comment anyones way about slacking off or fucking up, friend or not. Bidniss is Bidniss.

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beemk

i would hire friends, but i would only hire them if they were qualified enough to where i would hire them if they werent a friend.

finding a job for a friend just because they need a job is a recipe for disaster.

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Barefootsies

Amen brotha...

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