That makes no sense, and I have seen his stuff and read both sides on several issues he's raised - you obviously have not. You have only seen or heard what you want, just like the rest... Try doing a little research about the 'bad' Michael Moore then tell me what you think. He's not perfect and should not be placed on a pedistal as many have done.

Was not talking about Sicko, was referring to him in general - again, free country, my own opinion. You don't have to like it :winkwink:

and like I said: brainwashed much?

Please show me were he twisted facts

Why does everyone keep bringing up HMOs? You are aware there are other insurance policies, right? Off the top of my head: PPOs, major medical, hospital/surgical only...and I'm sure there are more.

I was watching a portion of Sicko about the chick all upset because her ambulance ride wasn't covered because it had to be "preapproved" and obviously she wasn't in a position to do that. I checked MY policy. It also says "preapproved" but says the HOSPITAL has 48 hours to get that "preapproval" AFTER the ambulance ride. If the HOSPITAL doesn't get the approval then because of the contract they have with my insurance company, the HOSPITAL is responsible for not doing what they agreed to do per the contract with my insurance company and the HOSPITAL eats the bill/pays the independent company, not me. I know this is true because it happened back in 2000 when I had a bleeding ulcer - hospital didn't get the emergency stuff in on time so instead of me paying 20%, I paid 0%.

Granted, I don't know everything that happened to the chick when she contacted the insurance company, hospital, ambulance company, etc. but obviously there's two sides to that story. But whatever benefits she gets are written out by the insurance company so she shouldn't have waited until she got a bill to find out the specifics of her coverage.

Again, for those of you who think private insurance is a rip off, insure yourselves. Put the money you'd spend on premiums into an interest bearing account and use the money to pay your medical bills as they come. Most of you won't do that because you KNOW insurance usually pays out more than you pay in - those evil, horrible companies ;)

Having my own opinion means I'm brainwashed? Ummm, ok :winkwink:

No you havent because if you had you wouldnt make that statement. Did nt say he was perfect but to make a blanket statement that everything out of his mouth is a lie isnt truth not even close.

:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup

Do some research - I did. I will not post it here, but trust me, there is plenty of proof out there on how this man opperates. There are some very interesting websites out there that give you a different pointof view on Michael Moore and may allow you to see both sides...

LOL, that's one of the most retarded statement I have ever read. Are 10,000's of other people going to put their money into our investment too?

I agree please show us.

[TRANSLATION] I don't have any proof [/TRANSLATION]

I never said 'everything out of his mouth was a lie' :winkwink:

Alright - since you won't do your own research - here's a website for you...

http://www.moorewatch.com/

Do a little reading...

nah we should all shut the hell up and take what they give us like REAL patriots, like you and sticky.

Your kidding right? You have to be.

Opinions aren't facts :2 cents:

Didn't Michael Moore pay for that guys wife's health bill and save his website? what an asshole.

Why should they? If the insurance companies are doing such a horrible job, they're putting all the extras into the executive's pockets anyway. :winkwink: They aren't paying for stuff you think should be paid for - wouldn't you be happier if you made sure your money was put to good use?

I've seen a LOT of companies try to self insure. I've seen it work once. Running an insurance company ain't as easy as everyone seems to think.

That's not at all what I'm saying. All I'm saying is that everyone should try and see both sides and not just be so willing to jump on the bandwagon... What Michael Moore and LOTS of other people say should always be taken with a grain of salt. The minute you start believing everything you see and hear without researching both sides, well, enough said...

Actually your mistaken alot of companies are self insured and they hire big insurance companies to manage it for them. My dad worked for one of the biggest health insurance companies in the country and that was part of what he did.

coming from the guy who hasn't even seen the movie. :1orglaugh

your not presenting facts,your basing your argument on a guy who could afford a 12 grand bill.

Oh, and that one company that had self insurance that worked - they still had employees bitching because if the company didn't do what they wanted, they couldn't complain to the insurance commissioner. But at least they didn't go broke like the other companies that tried to self insure.

I brought it up before but can't find the thread: When MM was interviewed on Leno, he said he thought all private companies should be shut down and the government should be the only medical provider. I SO disagree with that it's not funny. What's even sadder is that the two things he brought up as "good" things the government does were fire departments and social security. As someone posted previously most fire departments are volunteer (mine is - our HOA pays for everything) and if he thinks social security is a prime example of the government running something well, then he has some SERIOUS lack of info.

Moorewatch and pretty much every site like it has been refuted point by point. You don't care. You wouldn't read it if I picked up the monitor it was on and bashed you over the head with it. You don't want to know your heroes are villians, you don't want MM or anyone else telling you that. You'd cut off your own nose to spite your face, like just about every conservative.

The critics of Moore's work have to twist themselves until they bleed from the anus to try to make a case that Moore lies, and they can't do it, because he doesn't. The fact that he's not lying, people ARE fucking you over, means fuckall to you. I swear I don't understand you people or how you think. Meanwhile your penisfaced heroboys like Limbaugh lie about 200x every show. You don't care about that. I'm pretty sure all conservatives are either brain damaged or have some deep personal issues, or are just easily led astray...

In addition to about a thousand other sites refuting the people who make a living out of trying to say Moore 'lies' here are three good ones right from the source. I'd say check it out, but I'm pretty goddam sure you won't lol

http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/checkup/

I'm not "mistaken" when I state exactly what I know as something I know, lol.

So your Dad is saying the government could run it better than he did?

He says there should be no profit motive in health care. Sounds about right to me.

Doesn't that irrational hatred just eat you people up inside like poison?

Well said its very sad.

Most fire departments are voluntary??? where the fuck do you live? Where I live everyone and their brothers try to become firefighters because the pay is so good and the hours are nice.

Did the "volunteers" build the firehouse? Did they all get together and build the trucks too? Who brings them the water to put out the fires?

Yes, all fire departments have a volunteer program, and it usually consists of people trying to become paid firefighters.

Whatever.Actually he said the system has to change it doesnt work and he is a card carrying member of the RNC.

I do my research daily my wife does this for a living and the company she works for has over 335k of patients in there Florida network . I know were both sides gets there facts and its the same place so to sit here and say Moore is fudging the facts is not correct.

But note the $7200 a year Moore has been saying is a grey line. That number is estimated for 2007 it could be more or less by the fiscal years end. Beside that he has been dead on. Is he doing this for the money sure he is we all know that and he banking too. So later tonight i will come back and show you were both sides getting there info and you tell me what you think...

Actually what he said was he thought we should get rid of private insurance and just let the government run it. I heard him. I even repeated it on my TiVo because I couldn't believe he said it. Especially when his examples of things the government does right are fire departments and social security.

I've said for years that socialized medicine is fine with me as long as I can opt out of it. I don't want it. Period. I want to pay for my own insurance. If I still have to pay for the uninsured then make my premiums 100% tax deductible.

If wanting to be responsible for my own health instead of letting a federal government that's screwed up just about everything it's touched is irrational hatred, then I wear the badge with pride :)

The govt runs large enterprises significantly better than private enterprise. Political Science 101, not a secret. Educate yourself. Ever heard of the post office?

Someone else posted the stats that something like 60%+ of the fire departments in the US were volunteer - I'll have to Google.

In my subdivision we built the firehouse, we bought the trucks and pay for their gas and maintenance, the firemen are volunteers and the water is from our own privately run water system.

Funny you brought that up. The PO just sent me a survey to complete and I pointed out how if I wanted to make sure a package or letter got somewhere, I sent it via FedEx.

Just because you're ignorant enough to 'want to be responsible for your own health' doesn't mean the rest of us should be saddled with a broken, medieval health care system designed to make money instead of heal people. That's the problem with conservatives, there are so many of you that your idiotic votes enact policy that affects the rest of us. There are so many of you that it's just enough that your criminal politicians can steal national elections.

You're paying for the uninsured right now. I'm paying to kill innocent middle easterners. It's a democracy. Get over yourself or go buy a cabin in the woods.

Your very right,old people get their checks every month.Medicare/medcaid works fine in fact they have a higher satisfaction rate than private insurance. Our army is the greatest in the world, the government screws everything up is the right wing talking point they all cling too.

Volunteer fire department info:

* Estimated number of firefighters in 2005: 1,136,650 (career: 313,300, volunteer: 823,350)

Source: National Fire Protection Association, U.S. Fire Department Profile Through 2005

Yes, I see that you do indeed wear your ignorance badge with pride. Good for you.

What does this have to do with anything? There are a lot volunteer cop wanna-bes out there too. Should we have a private police force?