Ok..

Well where are they??

Not in this thread.....

Which is why we never know if you're being serious or not.:(

your right. socialized healthcare is not the way to go. i mean france only has socialized healthcare and i mean....they are only ranked #1 for best healthcare in the world

-_-

Rankings don't tell me anything, buzzy what is this one based on?

BP you think socialising medicine somehow means abandoning preventive care?

Btw boneprone, your ignorance is disturbing! I never post anything of conflict on gfy but for the first time ever I have stumbled upon a post that has really pinched a nerve. The health care system here is complete crap! I have lived in a total of 4 different countries in my life and this one has to be the most expensive and least sufficient! Oh and don't get me started about the damn drug companies and there advertising scheme and the throw backs that doctors get for pushing there drugs. I know several ppl who have been given samples at a doctors office and then discovered after the trial period of pills is gone that they are addicted and have to fork out hundreds of dollars a month to stay on the meds. Aaaarrrrrgggghhhhh :mad:
I knew I shouldn't have read this post! LOL:Oh crap

based on quality of healthcare

WASHINGTON (AP) The United States spends more per person on health care than any other country, yet in overall quality its care ranks 37th in the world, says a World Health Organization analysis. It concluded that France provides the globe's best health care.

http://cthealth.server101.com/Old&#3..._treatment.htm

Not at all. Socialized medicine does a good job with Preventitive care..

That is the answer for both systems.

Without it both systems will fail.

I can assure everyone that the US will NEVER have socialized medicine.

It will never EVER happen..

No political party will ever push it through..

Not even the Liberal powers will bring it.

Yes they may talk about it, but its all talk. It will never become a reality so dont worry people.

http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=1288

NEVER

Preventive medicine can not work in your system. There is no money in preventive care so no chance in hell HMO's give up profits to do it.

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

"Blah blah blah....." ??

I'm only saying the situation's fucked... and it is.

Maybe the answer's in socialized medicine, maybe it's in something else... but when people are getting rejected by insurance companies and HMO's because they have some ailment... forced to fend for themselves into bankruptcy - with no other options but to leave our country... that's fucked.

When we have bottom-line-minded pencil pushers that are making the "final cut" decision on what health needs you need... that's fucked.

When we have people hard at work who's entire job is to counter-act your doctor's recommendations, and provide a basis for not treating you so that they can fulfill their legally bound duty to make more money for their shareholders... that's fucked.

When you have doctors that are getting promoted and supported based on the amount of services that they reject to their patient-base... that's fucked.


Preventative medicine? That's a joke in this country for the average American, as if you aren't in dire need of some sort of service, it isn't paid for by most insurance companies.

And how the hell are you going to prevent shit like Cancer? Or inherited diseases (with 100% success) like diabetes... and once you have either, you're likely fucked for life - no insurance company will touch you... (HMO's included)... that's fucked.

I'm not asking for your Anal Hobbit routine here... step our of your bubble and open your eyes.

Or don't.

Can't debate this shit all day... I got work to do.

...........

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Ok..

Im outta here.

Theres no point in arguing with idiots.

Im going on my bike ride.

Be back in a few hours.

Nice post D.

So you are saying that there's socialism in the UK? Is that it?

Maybe France did it by investing all the ill gotten gains from trading with Iraq:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=31552

:mad:

If your unemployed or a pensioner it's free, everyone else has to pay extortionate prices, like £130 for a checkup.

And I got a bike ride to go do.

Im training for a big race...

Ill tell the Anal Hobbit you said hello.

In the mean time you better hide your Socialist propganda. Big brother is watching.

This thread is about as convincing as your Tom Hanks / Superman thread.

That doesn't sound like socialzed medicine but more like our systems.

D....

Go talk to Voodoo before you bust a vessel or something.
He needs to fill you in with the "system".

BP4L

Hey now......

I really thought Hanks would make a good Superman.

Did the last superman movie not suck??

People should have listened to me.

Should compare it to the Swedish instead :)

I take it you never got injured really bad and came to find out your insurance told you to fuck off and they where not going to pay..which happens everyday in the country

Yeah, well... I don't think I was near busing a vessel, man... but I can get going on subjects I'm passionate about - and this whole health care thing is one of those subjects as of late.

Appreciate you stepping in an effort to direct me to take preventative health measures, though...

Surgery and treatment for an aneurysm could get expensive!

:1orglaugh

you must have been watching a different movie than i..

socialized healthcare was hardly the point of the video.

Some of the biggest points he made had to do with insurance companies DENYING treatment that doctors advise.

So to all the people that think american style healthcare is better , just remember , at least in some other countries like canada you will get treatment, you may get denied treatment in u.s.a. and die like the people on the video.

I would rather get so called "substandard" treatment in canada and live , than die waiting for some asshat at the insurance company to approve my treatment in the u.s.a.

I think many people are so narrow minded they cant seem to understand a mix of both systems can work.

overall the video was very misleading and michael moore was once again only after some drama , and instead of focusing on improvement he focused on villifying insurance companies. He repeatedly makes references to insurance companies as " i thought insurance companies were supposed to be trying to help you " .. umm no they are there to make money pure and simple , if they approved every treatment they would go broke.

The difference is, in Canada if you can't afford the treatment you can still get it. In America it's only faster if your health insurance doesn't try to fight the claim. That is if you can afford to pay for the health insurance.

As someone pointed out in another topic. Consider yourself a average College aged student say 22 years old and out on your own.

You haven't graduated college yet so there is no big bucks coming in. Mommy and daddy aren't paying for your health insurance and you are just scraping by to barley afford college it's self, much less worry about health insurance.

Bad luck comes your way and you need an operation on your appendix.. In canada you get the operation and continue on your way. In the United States, if you are lucky enough to get the operation with out insurance. Well you will end up owing about 20 thousand dollars.

That's just a simple appendix operation..

The diffrence is sure in America you can get great medical treatment if you can Afford it. In Canada you can still get good medical treatment, even if you can't afford it.

You all will love this example

Our neighbor has worked at his job for 15 years. He is a smoker and now 50 years of age. He needs a double lung transplant. Blue Cross/Shield won't pay for it and denied his claim because they said it was self inflicted , pre-existing, something like that. He is now selling his house to pay for it.

Since he got sick, he also lost his job and is about to lose his health insurance, he was the only one who carried insurance and has a wife and a son under the age of 18

I haven't seen Sicko yet, it doesn't play anywhere around here. I only see whats going on around here.

And to the person who said, go get a job with health insurance. My son finally got one. He was without health insurance for the past 3 years, age 23 to age 26. He was in college, worked part time and after getting his job in January he finally got health insurance with his job July 1st.

I am for Universal Health, you never know what could happen to you, don't assume you are going to be healthy all your life, and dont' assume that your health insurance will cover everything. You better read the fine print.

xooxox

I beg to differ I just took my girlfriend to the ER and it was pretty fucking miserable. As much as insurance costs there could at least not be blood on the equipment and the place could be clean. And they could hire some people with a little intelligence

it's GENETICS

GENETICS: The study of inheritance patterns of specific traits.

What is funny is your use of misinformation and propaganda

Canada, statistically, helps more people for less money than the US.

Is it better to waste money? wait, nevermind

Like I said before. The question should not really be focused on what is a better system. Both privatized and public systems could be run at the same capacity, it all depends on how they are administered.

I read yesterday that Massachusetts is pushing for universal health care even within the privatized model.
(Link to article)

I think the thing that many don't understand is that the message is not who is the best, but rather that things need to change. Just because you can afford to be sick in the US does not meant that everyone can, and that is where the problem lays.

Oh, and while we are on the subject of financing, take a look at how fast the US is accumulating an insurmountable debt...money that could be used to help improve the health care system or dare I say help the Katrina victims instead of sending your young to die for nothing.
(link)

Yet you fail to provide us with a convincing argument as to what makes an HMO better than a socialized system. Instead you talk about teeth in the UK, which really doesn't bear much weight in this particular debate.

HMOs are better for the companies paying for the care, but not always better for the AVERAGE patient or the doctors involved. Those doctors are often forced to accept way to many patients and to basically care about none of them, because 5 extra minutes to care isn't paid.

HMOs are a great theory that in reality don't work as well as they should. Socialized medicine isn't much better. But any "for profit" or "for lowest cost" system will squeeze the quality right out of the deal.

Why do you keep bringing up dental shit? Did you know 45% of people in this country have no dental insurance and millions are forced to go to Mexico for dental work?

Something is majorly fucked up when people from one of the richest countries in the world have to go to one of the poorest countries just for basic care.

http://www.kaisernetwork.org/daily_r...fm?DR_ID=45643

ok.. im back from my bike ride.

LOL, spoken like a true ignoramus :thumbsup

......oh and by the way when was the last time you saw a British webmaster begging for money on boards to pay medical bills ?

saw it on downloaded versions ( quality so-so)

going to see it in the theatres.....

http://www.pdghosting.com/gfy/sicko.jpg

You are right.

Disturbing huh?

Did your source of information come from the CIA??

Who said US doctors are not terrorists?? I'll bet ya! *lol*

Obviously your logic is fried at the moment - there is no connection between terrorists and socialism. Only you could find that :1orglaugh

Dentistry is not free in the UK and the thing of Brits having bad teeth is a myth.
At least I've never heard of anyone dying from a tooth ache in the UK unlike the US.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...022702116.html

If you have the money you'll probably get better care in the US than anywhere else in the world, I don't think anyone is arguing about that. It's the poor people that have to suffer, even middle class people that get financially ruined because of astronomical health bills.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_..._United_States

Public health care is a huge burden on any country, but even if the US doesn't provide their citizens with this basic human right they still spend a huge portion of the GDP on it...
A country that is supposed to be the biggest superpower in the world should be able to take care of the people without any problems.

In Spain every employer has to pay social security for their employees, about 300$ a month, this goes into health care and if you become unemployed you get 3 month full pay for each year you've been working.

Spain is currently one of the most dynamic economies in the world, recently got into 8th place over all (and should therefor be in the G8 :upsidedow), so social medicine definitely hasn't hurt.

Um... There is the option of private healthcare still in these "SOCIALIST" societies you talk of. The keyword being "option".

I'm sorry boneprone, but it appears that you can't "run laps" around us as you have previously stated, proving once again something that I leaned while in university...education is nothing unless you learn how to use it.

I believe it was Socrates that said "I cannot teach anybody anything, I can only make them think."

That comment made by someone with Chinese Ancestors is quite hilarious :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh No Offense bone....

You almost act as if you weren't a sheep herder yourself. :1orglaugh

what about a voucher system?
like X amount of free visits a month

X amount of surgerys per year

X amount of emergency visits per year

that is comp'd by the goverment

False. It's called the drug companies mark shit up to make the most money off those who can afford to pay it.

And one of the problems with that is the money spent on health care is used to line pockets, not provide quality care.

Like sports, health care needs a salary cap. :thumbsup

I have to comment on the "free Canadian healthcare"... How exactly is it free? My monthly MSP payments were higher than I pay now for good international health insurance...

There is no doubt that quality of health care in the U.S. is top notch, but there are some serious problems, even for middle class people with good jobs who have health insurance. The main problem being that many people get denied coverage for their legitimate illnesses by their supposedly solid health insurance company and wind up going bankrupt or dying. And all because in our system, the insurance company just denies policy claims, citing pre-existing conditions or some other technical excuse as a matter of course, just to play games with people and save money. They system is such that the health insurance companies rely on the fact that many people will give up pressing their wrongly denied claims or die off before they have to pay. When that happens- and it's an everyday thing nowadays- it's tantamount to murder in my opinion.