Porn Farmer

A lot of talk about universal healthcare lately with the release of Micahel Moore's 'Sicko'. The right always wants to call it socialised medicine but either way, your country either has it or it doesn't.

So I thought a poll is the best way to sort out whether those who have it, like it and whether those that don't have it, want it. Should healthcare be made available to all citizens (whether it's a sore back or open heart surgery) with absolutely no out of pocket expenses?

Public poll to stop fraudulent votes.

Porn Farmer

Vote you fuckers.

voa

I live in a country without universal healthcare and would like my country to have it.This is my choice.

buzzy

I live in a country with universal healthcare and think we should keep it.

direxxx

Universal healthcare has its problems like any big bureaucracy, but in the end it's worth it. Medical care shouldn't be a privilege just for those who can afford it.

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Porn Farmer

Bump 4 more votes.

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I live in the U.S. and I think universal healthcare is a great idea. But I also think the cost of healthcare would be much more expensive if our government controlled it. Which would translate into most people paying more healthcare taxes than they currently do for healthcare/medical insurance. We have already been fucked on our social security/retirement taxes and I can only imagine universal healthcare taxes being handled the same way.

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stev0

Look how much Bush spent on attacking Iraq, that money could have been better spent. That $400 billion dollars would allocate $1600 to every US citizen, more than enough to cover average health expenses.

I think it's a shame that any modern country puts capital gain over the wellbeing of the population.

ADL Colin

I'm in favor of reducing both government medical expenses and military spending.

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darling2

I would not want to worry about money in time of bad health. I would like my doctor to choose the treatment he wants, not some insurance guys refusing me an organ transplant just because he will get a bonus by refusing me.

I voted nr 1

Loryn

THANK YOU!!!!!!! Someone who gets it!

Why the fuck would anyone want the government to control anything else in your life?

LESS GOVERNMENT! And please NO ONE in America gets turned away for medical help. For God sakes illegal aliens get medical help all the time, and they know not to call a taxi, call an ambulance because it will get paid for. There are so many government assistant programs out there it is not even funny. People just don't use them because the "headline readers" say there is nothing out there for anyone and people just sit on their ass and believe that instead of going out and finding what they can do to help better their lives.

When I got into an accident when I was in my early 20's, getting away from the family and wanting to be on my own, I had no insurance and I got great medical care, plus I got assistance with the bills. I have had many friends that I have helped over the years in the same situation and got the same results.

I think once the government starts controlling that part of our lives, you will see the decrease of competition in the medical fields. Competition is great and it makes people work harder to find better cures for illnesses.

I can?t stand when people say out of one side of their mouth, I hate the government it is so corrupted, but out the other side of their mouth its the government should support me and pay for everything. Make up your mind, you either like the government or you don't.

The people are not stupid we can take care of ourselves and our families. And the people who are in this country who can't take care of themselves, there are several programs already out there for them. Nothing is perfect and NOTHING EVER WILL BE. But if you let the government have any more control over you, you will fuck yourself more than you could ever image. Once they get you to depend on them for things that you can take care of yourself, it?s hard to get away from it. Look what happen with welfare. It was designed to help, but instead people took advantage of it and ended up depending on it for life and not their own ability to succeed. It keeps people down, it doesn?t help motivate them to succeed and be their best. Yes, I know there are people who do use welfare the way it should be used, to help get through a tough time and get back on their feet.

And of course what he said about Social Security. At the time it was needed, but now it is not. People depend on that money instead of planning their own retirements. See the crutch the government wants you to have so they have the power. LESS GOVERNMENT BETTER COUNTRY!!! Opportunity is everywhere in this country, ask anyone of the people who stuffed themselves in crates and boxes to get here. It?s because they want the freedom to make the choices they want in their lives and use their talents and brains to support them and become successful. They don?t come here to have another government control them.

I think it was France that had that huge heat wave and thousands of people died. There was no gathering of people to help each other during that heat wave, because everyone just thought their government would take care of them. That didn?t work out to well, did it?

America is America because of how Americans are, HELPFUL and GIVING! And if you can?t see that then you are blinded by your own ?headline reading? hateful agenda.

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Loryn

Are you kidding me with this shit?

In America no Doctor is going to say sorry, your insurance guy wants his bonus so you have to DIE!

Your statement proves my point, headline readers! The government crutch is always introduced by the use of fear! Sweetie I promise you if you ever have a life or death situation there are people who will do everything they can to get you your kidney, heart, liver whatever you need. There are plenty of private donation programs out there. I am an organ donor. I know there are horror stories about people not getting organs and such, but that happens even in countries with universal health care.

What other country provides more organ transplants than America? I?m just curious since you are concerned about this.

But if all else fails you could always go to China: Forced donation!
This is organ donation that is done against the will of the donor. There have been various accusations that certain authorities are harvesting organs from those authorities deem undesirable, such as prison populations. The Kilgour-Matas report detailed allegations of extraction of organs from Mainland Chinese political prisoners, aspects of which the Chinese (Peoples' Republic of China) government has admitted. Since you are involved in porn they would probably take your organs for someone else.

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Jace

loryn, I hate to say it, but I read all the replies in this thread twice, and you come off as the biggest "hater"...everyone was actually just talking and discussing and you came in throwing names around and insulting people because of their views

just because someone is uneducated about something you have knowledge about doesn't mean they deserved to be laughed at and poked at

Loryn

Found this don't know how true it is but hey it makes for fun convo's!



It was on wiki!

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ADL Colin

We're ALL becoming too reliant on our governments.

Reminds me of Katrina. Bunch of americans on TV crying for their government to help them. People shoulda been helping each other .. instead of killing, raping and robbing each other.

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_Richard_

you do know this happens right? i think there was a story yesterday of a little girl that died becuase she was brought to the 'wrong hospital'

america spends more on health care and helps less people than canada does, statistically.

darling2

No? That has already happened. Read this confession below

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=2320

The Sultan Of Smut

LOL this is the first time I've seen 0% on a poll result.

darling2

These stats also include eastern europe which lower the stats for europe. It would be nice to see scandinavia, canada and UK in such a comparison.

Danny B

I live in holland and for about $130,- a month you've got your ass covered. But the shitty part is when it comes to donors and transplants.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6714063.stm

In Holland you are only a donor when you have sent them your approval in writing. To little people do, or want that. We (a country that is very wealthy) have a miles long waiting list for organs. People die bgecasue of that.

And even if "you" get ill, while you have told them not to become a donor after you die, you are still entitled to receive a donor organ.....

FUCK THAT!

We had a kidney show recently, where a dying woman would give her kidney to one of the three finalistst. In the last minute it turned out to be a hoax.

The show got a shitload of publicity.

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Loryn

I am not trying to insult anyone in this thread, I am talking about people who do think the way that I wrote above, and how my views are different. I am by far not a hater and you know that. I have read and debated this topic on GFY several times and I always get passionate about it. Maybe my passion came across too harsh. Maybe the "Are you kidding me with this shit?? and the laughie guy came out a little harsh. I didn't mean it like, "I AM IN YOUR FACE IDIOT" I meant it like "shock" I am very passionate about this stuff and you know that.

I in NO WAY meant to put people down. Everyone knows I am the first person to be there for anyone who needs me, and I do not and will not judge or hate anyone who thinks different from me. I get judged and disliked for my views ALL THE TIME and I would never do that to anyone else. I don't mind if people have different views, or don't understand something, I will still be loveable fun Loryn with them and laugh with them and share in their tears if needed. I just have A LOT of passion!

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Loryn

I am sure we can dig up something! GOOGLE!

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ADL Colin

Who did she insult? I musta missed it.

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Loryn

That is why I said this as well: I know there are horror stories about people not getting organs and such, but that happens even in countries with universal health care.

and this as well: Nothing is perfect and NOTHING EVER WILL BE

So based on a horrible sad story of this happening (and I am sure there are more out there), we should go with government crutches? Is the government going to make it all better? Like I said nothing is perfect and shit does happen that is not fair. That is just the way life is. I hate it but I can't change unfairness and cruelty of the world.

And I am not EVEN going to go into that statistically thing you posted. I have a lot of work to do, and don't have time to explain that one. (wait if I do the laughie guy then I am being mean j/k Jace) But I will say I don't hear of a bunch of people fleeing to Canada for medical help.

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Loryn

I didn't think I did either!

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wil_I_Am

I've had to fight HMOs every step of the way with my son, fuck them. It seems the most "passionate" people against the idea of universal healthcare have never had a family member diagnosed with a lifelong disease or condition.

Watch the movie, and then let's all discuss it. I'm not saying it will change your mind, but I'd like to hear your reaction to what you see.

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Loryn

I just saw on TV the other day about a town in Mississippi where the people came together to help each other rebuild their town. I would love to see more of that too! It would be great!

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Got Porn?

That was very well said Loryn

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JP513

good thread . . . I'd like to see USA get it.

the Shemp

INFANT MORTATLTY RATES:
Rank Country Value / Unit
1. Singapore 2.28 deaths/1,000 live births
2. Sweden 2.77 deaths/1,000 live births
3. Hong Kong 2.97 deaths/1,000 live births
4. Japan 3.28 deaths/1,000 live births
5. Iceland 3.31 deaths/1,000 live births
6. Finland 3.59 deaths/1,000 live births
7. Norway 3.73 deaths/1,000 live births
8. Malta 3.94 deaths/1,000 live births
9. Czech Republic 3.97 deaths/1,000 live births
10. Andorra 4.05 deaths/1,000 live births
11. Germany 4.20 deaths/1,000 live births
12. France 4.31 deaths/1,000 live births
13. Macau 4.39 deaths/1,000 live births
14. Switzerland 4.43 deaths/1,000 live births
15. Spain 4.48 deaths/1,000 live births
16. Slovenia 4.50 deaths/1,000 live births
17. Denmark 4.63 deaths/1,000 live births
18. Austria 4.68 deaths/1,000 live births
19. Australia 4.76 deaths/1,000 live births
20. Belgium 4.76 deaths/1,000 live births
21. Liechtenstein 4.77 deaths/1,000 live births
22. Canada 4.82 deaths/1,000 live births
23. Luxembourg 4.88 deaths/1,000 live births
24. Netherlands 5.11 deaths/1,000 live births
25. Portugal 5.13 deaths/1,000 live births
26. United Kingdom 5.22 deaths/1,000 live births
27. Ireland 5.50 deaths/1,000 live births
28. Monaco 5.53 deaths/1,000 live births
29. Greece 5.63 deaths/1,000 live births
30. San Marino 5.85 deaths/1,000 live births
31. New Zealand 5.96 deaths/1,000 live births
32. Aruba 6.02 deaths/1,000 live births
33. Italy 6.07 deaths/1,000 live births
34. Cuba 6.45 deaths/1,000 live births
35. Taiwan 6.52 deaths/1,000 live births
36. United States 6.63 deaths/1,000 live births
37. Croatia 6.96 deaths/1,000 live births
38. Lithuania 7.13 deaths/1,000 live births
39. Korea, South 7.18 deaths/1,000 live births
40. Israel 7.21 deaths/1,000 live births
41. Cyprus 7.36 deaths/1,000 live births
42. Slovakia 7.62 deaths/1,000 live births
43. New Caledonia 7.89 deaths/1,000 live births
44. Reunion 7.95 deaths/1,000 live births
45. Estonia 8.08 deaths/1,000 live births
46. Virgin Islands 8.21 deaths/1,000 live births
47. Puerto Rico 8.37 deaths/1,000 live births
48. Cayman Islands 8.41 deaths/1,000 live births
49. French Polynesia 8.61 deaths/1,000 live births
50. Hungary 8.68 deaths/1,000 live births
51. Poland 8.73 deaths/1,000 live births
52. Bermuda 8.79 deaths/1,000 live births
53. Chile 9.05 deaths/1,000 live births
54. American Samoa 9.48 deaths/1,000 live births
55. Latvia 9.67 deaths/1,000 live births
56. Nauru 10.14 deaths/1,000 live births
57. Costa Rica 10.26 deaths/1,000 live births
58. Kuwait 10.26 deaths/1,000 live births
59. Netherlands Antilles 10.37 deaths/1,000 live births
60. Macedonia 11.74 deaths/1,000 live births
61. Uruguay 12.31 deaths/1,000 live births
62. French Guiana 12.46 deaths/1,000 live births
63. Barbados 12.61 deaths/1,000 live births
64. Jamaica 12.81 deaths/1,000 live births
65. Fiji 12.99 deaths/1,000 live births
66. Tonga 12.99 deaths/1,000 live births
67. Brunei 13.05 deaths/1,000 live births
68. Serbia and Montenegro 13.43 deaths/1,000 live births
69. Belarus 13.62 deaths/1,000 live births
70. Saudi Arabia 13.70 deaths/1,000 live births
71. Saint Lucia 13.95 deaths/1,000 live births
72. Grenada 14.62 deaths/1,000 live births
73. Dominica 14.75 deaths/1,000 live births
74. Sri Lanka 14.78 deaths/1,000 live births
75. Saint Kitts and Nevis 14.94 deaths/1,000 live births
76. United Arab Emirates 15.06 deaths/1,000 live births
77. Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 15.24 deaths/1,000 live births
78. Palau 15.30 deaths/1,000 live births
79. Mauritius 15.57 deaths/1,000 live births
80. Argentina 15.66 deaths/1,000 live births
81. Seychelles 15.97 deaths/1,000 live births
82. Greenland 16.31 deaths/1,000 live births
83. Russia 16.96 deaths/1,000 live births
84. Bahrain 17.91 deaths/1,000 live births
85. British Virgin Islands 18.05 deaths/1,000 live births
86. Jordan 18.11 deaths/1,000 live births
87. Malaysia 18.35 deaths/1,000 live births
88. Qatar 19.32 deaths/1,000 live births
89. Georgia 19.34 deaths/1,000 live births
90. Saint Helena 19.85 deaths/1,000 live births
91. Antigua and Barbuda 20.18 deaths/1,000 live births
92. Oman 20.26 deaths/1,000 live births
93. Ukraine 20.61 deaths/1,000 live births
94. Tuvalu 20.69 deaths/1,000 live births
95. Panama 20.95 deaths/1,000 live births
96. Thailand 21.14 deaths/1,000 live births
97. Bulgaria 21.31 deaths/1,000 live births
98. Mexico 21.69 deaths/1,000 live births
99. Colombia 21.72 deaths/1,000 live births
100. Bosnia and Herzegovina 21.88 deaths/1,000 live births

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More "Headlines"

Money Spent on Healthcare According to the World Health Organization: http://www.who.int/whosis/database/c...nguage=english

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Sausage

The anti-government argument doesn't stack here. Sure we get taxed a little more, but in the long run we are better off. Sure its more work for your government to run the health system, but what the hell do you pay your taxes for?

If one thing chills me to the bone, its the idea that our health system is taken out of the hands of our government, even it isn't perfect.

Strange that nobody in this poll who has universal health cover wants it changed.

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Barefootsies

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

yys

I could care less which side you support but saying that a government run system would cost more is a fallacy. The amount of health care money that is spent on administration in the U.S.A is unbelievable; all to push paper around to the thousands on thousands of different companies. In a single payee system you automatically save money.

pornoshare

Coming from a country that has univeral health care I found SiCKO very interesting. This is extremely simple to solve.

a) You prefer to have health in control of the government. One would think (although debatable) that the government has a duty to protect its citizens.

b) You prefer to have health care controlled by a corporation, ie: the insurance companies whose primary goal is to make money for their shareholders, which obviously equates to the exact opposite of helping you when you are sick.

At the end of the day, the choice of health care is never going to be truly yours anyway so it may as well be in the hands of the people that are expected to look after you. Admittedly a fine line but I would trust country over some shitbag corporation with a billion dollar CEO any day of the week.

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I am for universal health care. It is interesting to see who is not, I wonder what their reasons are?

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TheSenator

Good point.

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notabook

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Sausage

Very well said.

Pretty much sums up my thinking too.

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MikeVega

I maybe one sided because i just watched the Movie Sicko but i can't see anyone believing that the system we have now is better then any country that has universal health care. my head is spinning over Loryn's view of things.

after watching a movie like that I'm considering moving out of this corrupt country that has a government that rolls over on its own people for a few bucks. The HMO's have people working full time just to figure out ways to not pay your bill. the system is fine when you have a cold or something small but when the big bill comes and you need it the most they do everything they can to fuck ya. and the current programs out there only support the poor. what about the middle class guy that has just enough to not qualify for Medicaid but can't afford the $1700 a month I pay for full family. The system doesn't work .. not even close and if you don't see it you need to look harder. I grew up on and off welfare and i know what it is like to use the free health care and what its like not to have health care. the government has the money but would rather spent it on self serving agendas .. but that's just my 2 cents

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Drake

The only problem with this is that the Government is headed by enough "shitbags" who behave and get paid just like CEO's of corporations, who treat things like health care as a business rather than a service to ensure people are healthy. What's more, there is less accountability in Government. Everytime a government beauracratic body gets in trouble, nobody takes a fall. It almost seems like every other day some government official gets busted for something or another and is able to resign with his multi million dollar severance package intact.

Quite frankly I'm not sure which option is better, but I do believe it is a fact, as Loryn said, that Americans aren't border jumping into Canada to get healthcare. It seems they do, in the end, get the care they need at home whether they can pay for it or not.

Thing is, people are not responsible with money which is why we have enormous credit card debt. If taxes are reduced and put back into the hands of citizens, those citizens aren't going to save that extra money for a rainy day when they get sick and need to pay a hospital bill.

I don't know enough about the history of healthcare. Was there a time in say, Canada, when it didn't exist? Were things so much worse/harder for Joe Blow to get treatment at that time?

MikeVega

that's not true .. people do cross the Canadian border and use addresses of friends to get free health care. they even gave an example in the Movie Sicko. As for Mexicans coming over your right. they don't get good treatment in there country but they are also dirt poor and in the US you can get coverage if you are very poor. but a guy that is just able to buy a house and work 7 days a week can't. it's a fucked up system.

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Drake

I haven't seen the movie yet. I look forward to it. Are there any stats on this phenomenon?

Likewise there are tons of Canadians who buy drugs in the US because they're too expensive in Canada.

Porn Farmer

Interesting that not one person living in a country with universal healthcare wants to get rid of it.

Lets face it, private enterprise cannot be trusted with your health. They are no less corrupt or more trustworthy than government. You only have to look at this industry to see how morally bankrupt private enterprise can be - thieves and scammers everywhere....

Does anyone really want a healthcare system where the dollar is the bottom line? I sure as hell dont.

More votes a-holes.

uno

That's the first time I've heard that and not the other way around.

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Drake

You're right, it's the other way around. My bad.

tony286

Read the book sick, actually the costs are much cheaper when the goverment runs it. The Chairman of united health care gave himself a half billion dollar bonus,the government doesnt give bonuses and other bullshit like Tv advertising,print. The Iraq war has been so expensive because they have been privatizing this war.

Axeman

The problem is in most countries the government works for the people because they fear getting tossed on their ass. In the US the government controls the people for the most part. Canada is getting closer to this as well.

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Axeman

blank message. Poster corrected himself.

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ZoneMaster

Very true Can't say about Canada, but smell a few Euro countries are sliding that way as well - but nothing like the US. There would be riots in the streets if they pushed their luck