DOCTOR 30

http://www.purdue.edu/UNS/x/2007a/07...lHydrogen.html

http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/s...leID=199601111

Well whatta ya' know. Finally someone is moving their asses regarding getting hydrogen as a fuel source and solving some problems with it.

GatorB

I predict these 3 mysteriously die sometime soon.

CDSmith

That was my first thought.

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WebairGerard

Looks like they already took a few shots at the guy in the middle!

seriously though, this is very promising!

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Screaming

that would be sweet... but then who would gwb attack? niargra falls?

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DOCTOR 30

Now THAT'S friggin' funny!

RawAlex

Nice idea. So instead of high priced gas, we can have super high priced water. I can live without gas. I can't live without water.

How much do you think water would cost in, say, south florida right now?

Unless they can do it with salt water, they are pretty much screwed.

TubeTitans_SusieQ

Yea im going to have to agree with that one lol

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rapmaster

I read "The Hydrogen Economy" a few years back after attending a lecture by Jeremy Rifkin. Some really interesting stuff - he thinks the energy revolution will be like the internet revolution - we will see.

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GatorB

You aren't too bright are you? Assuming the same milage per gallon, most people would use about 2-3 gallons a day. About 2 toilet flushes. Also do you drink sea water? Florida is surrounded by it, why is there a water problem? Oh yeah humans don't use it for drinking or watering their lawns or washing their clothes. Last time I check there is more than enough sea water to go around.

tony286

doesnt it suck but your right or their technology will be bought and put on on a shelf somewhere left to rot

Z

"They" will never let this or anything like it happen.

(adjusting my tin foil hat and relaxing on the cot in my bomb shelter)

CosmicTang

They can do it with seawater. The deuterium in sea water holds so much potential energy that one gallon of seawater has the same amount of energy as 300 gallons of gasoline.

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King Adam

It sure would be nice to rely other power sources. If there was no need for gas, all those middle eastern countries that live off oil sales would never make enough money to support their terrorist networks. Lets keep our fingers crossed and hope for the best.

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After Shock Media

Fuck that bottled water is already more expensive than gas per gallon.

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GatorB

Fact is that if reagan and Bush 1 hadn't cut off funding for solar energy we'd have solor powered cars by now and houses that run on solar energy.

After Shock Media

Solar is still a future pipe dream.

We need nuclear power plants.

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IllTestYourGirls

And if JFK didnt die we would have flying cars!

Like someone said before, I can live without gas but I can not live without water. Water already costs $1 a gallon at best at a store.

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After Shock Media

Try 1.00 or more per 12 ounces.

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Dollarmansteve

Once again it's time for Eco101:

"Right now it costs more than $1 a pound to buy aluminum, and, at that price, you can't deliver a product at the equivalent of $3 per gallon of gasoline," Woodall said.

There are lots of alternatives to gasoline out there, but they ARE TOO FREAKING EXPENSIVE!!!!

A fuel and/or process should not be considered an 'alternative' until it's cost is competitive with the status quo. As long as gasoline is the cheapest way to fuel a car, gasoline will be king. This is not a 'threat' to the oil industry.

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DOCTOR 30

Read on in the story and then read on more about how they can easily resolve the aluminum cost problem.

RawAlex

Gator, unless they can run the thing on seawater, there would be a distinct shortage of water for fuel pretty much everywhere in the world. Safe drinking water still isn't available to a significant percentage of the population.

Do you have any clear idea how many gallons of fuel are used each day in the US? Do you have any idea what that type of volume of use would do to most lakes and reservoirs? Too many places (such as SoCal) barely get enough water as it is - making another 777 million gallons a day out of that would create a significant problem.

Further, if they are using seawater, they are going to need to find some way to get rid of all the excess salt. You can't dump it inland, because it would pollute the lands and pretty much kill off everything. You can't dump it into the drain, because it would end up salinizing lakes and rivers with the runoff. Not a good scenerio.

Let's go a little further. The other part of this deal is "beads of an aluminum-gallium alloy". I wonder what the power requirements are to create that alloy? Aluminum (and most metals) have to be heated to very high temperatures to be melted to be formed, which requires a fair bit of energy. That doesn't even consider the concepts of digging it out of the ground or transporting it to the smelter. It's sort of like ethanol / methanol: The total energy spent to create is more than the actual energy in the end product.

After Shock Media

um talk to the fast food places, you know us americans and salt.

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kane

this is a step in the right direction but I think we are probably 20+ years away from any real affordable long term solution. There are things that could be done now like using solar and wind power to create electricity for cities, but for some reason we don't do that.

TTiger

well not here in quebec during winter

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Screaming

Name: Aluminum
Symbol: Al
Atomic Number: 13
Atomic Mass: 26.981539 amu
Melting Point: 660.37 °C (933.52 K, 1220.666 °F)

thats not that hot really..

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notabook

Fusion power is the future. And if you vote for Bill Richardson, the future is now (well, technically soon, though practically now).

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RawAlex

Ummm, calculate the amount of energy (in joules) required to raise the metal to that temperature. That is the amount of energy "lost" in the process of making aluminum to be able to be used for this sort of thing. Combining the aluminum alloy with water would (pound for pound) likely generate much less energy than was put into the system.

The same issue exists for corn based products, as the energy required to convert the product from corn to ethanol requires more energy than is left in the ethanol. It is a net loss production, because in it's natural state, the corn has very little potential energy of it's own (unless maybe you burn it directly). Oil and natural gas are attractive fuels because mother nature has done the converting, provide a base product that has the energy already in it.

GatorB

Well answer this. How come no one is concerned about ethenol which is made from CORN. Fact is if every bit of corn was used for ethenol we still wouldn't have enough. And every ear of corn that is used for ethenol drives up the price of corn for FOOD. Who cares if I save 25 cents a gallon on gas of my grocery bill goes up 25%.

D

Doubt it... this time around, at least.

Hydrogen-based fuel technology is getting a lot more attention lately due to our impending return to the moon in 2018.

We already suspect there to be a couple heavy ice water deposits on it... and in the next few years, we'll know for certain if there is or not.

Ice Water would mean both a source of replenishment for those maintaining the moon base, and a source of fuel for return trips and outbound launches.

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After Shock Media

I am it should be made from sugar for numerous reasons, corn is bad idea.

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DOCTOR 30

HEMP!

Hemp is one of if not THE most efficient plant to produce ethanol. It's easy to grow and cultivate in massive volumes. Not only that but it has so many alternate uses from clothing to medical to food you can't lose.

Vendzilla

and any left overs we burn right?

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Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

kane

Sadly you would have to smoke about 5 lbs of hemp to get high. It has hardly any THC in it.

Gumballs

Great now they will learn how to corner the aluminum market and regulate the price like they do oil.

Out of the frying pan into the fire.

Phoenix

interesting read..thanks for sharing

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chodadog

Unfortunately, this is not going to be a viable option for hydrogen. I don't think it ever will be. The price of aluminum is not going to come down enough. These smelters are putting out millions upon millions of tons of the stuff.

Also, one of the by-products is Aluminum Oxide which is extremely abrasive. If any of that gets into an internal combustion engine, then it's dead in a matter of hours.

I'd put money down that Hydrogen will be the fuel of the future, but not like this. It needs to be produced using renewable energy or using nuclear power.

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Vendzilla

well thats ok, I know a guy

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Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

pornguy

I get 5 gallons for 70 cents.

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sickbeatz

the steam engine was hidden for a reason... so rich rednecks could hill billy their happy lives in peace.

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TGVinny

Sounds like a great idea, but seriously, for 350 miles you need 350 pounds of aluminum, that's a shit load to carry, are cars going to be the size of buses??

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DOCTOR 30

Now here's a bright guy!

You hit the nail right on the head. Guess which companies dominate the aluminum field?

You got it, same companies that dominate the petroleum.

Control goes from one to the other.

Chio

Why is everyone so concerned about using water as a fuel?
The by-product of a hydrogen engine *is* water.

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Pleasurepays

you're right. the rest of the world is stupid and doesn't care. only americans are capable of these things. thats why it hasn't happened anywhere else in the world either.

good point.

you're brilliant.

Nathan

Everyone keeps saying the problem is the cost of making the alloy and stuff like this..

I see a different problem.. 1 POUND OF THE ALLOY is needed to travel 1 MILE! Thats a bit much no?

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RawAlex

Actually, a rather large number of people are very concerned about this. Already the repercussions have been felt, right down to their being a shortage of corn meal to make tortillas and tacos in mexico (no joke).

Pure ethanol (or even methanol) are not really an answer because they are a negative energy source. However, they are a relatively decent replacement for a previously used chemical that was a known carcinogen that was used in the past to control knock and so on. Ethanol as about 5% of pump gas is economically supportable and very slightly lowers the US requirement for imported oil.

Remember the math: If 50% of the oil is imported, and you use 5% less overall, you can lower foreign sources by 10% (because you would continue to use your own sources to the fullest.

Nathan, you are correct, 1 pound per mile would mean that the car would be carrying 350 pounds of useless weight at all times in order to be able to go 350 miles. That would take about 1 square yard to store (about 3 by 3 by 3) packed in densely. Size wise not so bad, weight wise a real drag on the overall effectiveness of the car. 1 gallon of gas weighs in about 6 pounds, so at 35 miles per gallon (effecient car) you would need about 60 pounds of gas - so the aluminum fillup would be much heavier. Plus, of course, the needed water to do the deal.

In a sense, this sounds like it might be a better engine design for, say, an ocean liner or an oil drilling platform, example.

SmokeyTheBear

theres energy floating around us everywhere , we just need to harness it ..

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DaniBear

Look up Steven Horvarth and "Star Energy" they've got this NAILED!

DOCTOR 30

Tesla Tesla Tesla

BusterBunny

ready....set......goooooooo

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