Intriguing.

I am, as always, at your disposal. How about a site with a unique "hook"? No trials at all, full signups only. To hell with trials, serious spankers only. It will be glorious.

You've got mail. :D

Chris,

I like the sound of that post much better. We do not take any of the risk on the merchant. Each of our merchants (clients) has their own direct relationship with the aquiring bank. I do not state that our model is better or worse unless I am put on the defensive.
I know very well that a merchant account is right for some and not for others. As a matter of fact, when a webmaster wants to use us and cannot get a merchant account for various reasons, guess where I refer them.... Epoch typically.
I do have to defend our business model on this board occassionally and do so as everyone does at times. You are right, there is plenty of business to go around and a handful of us are doing quite well, all with variations in our business models. It is never my intention to slam anyone until they take on this attitude of "my way or the highway" and have a very closed mind. I am not referring to you, and do not need to name anyone today.

Mitch

Look guys, the reason I'm fanning the flames here is because I am looking at this from my situation. I have a merchant account already. I use it for my mainstream business.

From what I have learned in the past couple of days is my charge taking ability can still be stripped even if I use a 3rd party processor for my porn. That was not the case before. We were safe from harm by hiding in the aggregate chargeback numbers that you guys do. Now that's not the case(?)

Looking at my current scenario, would it make sense for someone like me to use a processing services company in conjunction with my merchant account or stick with my 3rd party company? Why?

Simple questions.

If you have a merchant account for mainstream business then you should be setup with an MCC Code other than 5967 (which in exclusive to adult video text). If you process one adult transaction through that merchant account and it is not setup under 5967 then your acquiring bank is potentially liable for a fine from the card associations, which they would pass on to you in most all cases. I would leave that account for mainstream only, seeing how I don't know what the name of the acquiring bank is then I cannot tell you for certain wether or not they would even allow you to accept adult transactions through that account.

As far as pursuing your own account for adult vs. staying with a 3rd party processor, I recommend staying with a 3rd party processor. Why? because it is our understanding that indivdual submerchants will not be scrutinized within a portfolio just as long as the entire portfolio stays within card association guidelines. That is not to say that once we register each submerchant that VISA cannot tell us to stop processing for some. As long as you have run a clean shop in the past then you will be just fine. Remember we are the merchant. VISA just wants to know who processes with us.

Clay
EPOCH

Great. Keep those referrals coming Mitch! We really do appreciate the business.

CD

LOL, you know we never did trials . . . it was far too easy to get the surfer to pony up the 20 bucks right away! :)

Dyanna --- I was pretty much saying all that for the masses here (since some have conveniently chosen to ignore my much earlier post on this thread).


Yes, I thought everyone knew that really catchy original sites that have an interesting "hook" incorporated into them equals full signups without the need for trials. No really, I though everyone knew that.

I am big enough to admit when I'm wrong. :)

Chris
?The Untouchable? CEO
EPOCH


u are a DORK!!

Gee, I always miss the good stuff when my cable modems down...

You say "DORK" like its a bad thing.

I was quoting one of Mitch's lines, asswipe. Keep up or bail out
You are Steve, right, ronin?:ak47:


KK: I was on a plane for several hours and missed 100 posts.

Chris
CEO
EPOCH

Actually, I called to leave a msg for him today and was asked if I wanted to speak to him and to let me know he was actually e-mailling me at that very moment, I declined and said I'd call him after receiving his e-mail....

He's accessible.

Yeah but I don't understand why you were in an airport changing planes...

well i have been in the adult business, in one way or another, before you got out of diapers.
toys, content, & yes processing. when you have tons of money around, you tend to keep in the loop!! DICK

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chris Mallick
[B]

You say "DORK" like its a bad thing.

I was quoting one of Mitch's lines, asswipe. Keep up or bail out
You are Steve, right, ronin?:ak47:


NO!! :ak47: :BangBang:

I didn't say I was in an airport changing planes... I was in a plane for several... still not smoking!
C

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ronin
[B]So we still don't know who you are and you still chose to bitch? I guess you're just a bitch-er.

PS: Does this mean we are in a gun fight? :ak47: :BangBang:

I think ronin is trying to arrange a meeting at the flag pole

haha..i am a bitch-er :)

It's kinda violent in here.

bring your bullet proof vest!!!

300 :thumbsup

Pornwolf,

What # can you be reached at tomorrow? ICQ is fine too.

Thanks, Mitch

Hi All

Well to illustrate ones feelings of insecurity using a PSP, right now - this minute - the iBIll webmaster interface (CMI - http:cmi.ibill.com/) is down, plus the CC sales are way lo, and checks and Web900 arent working at all.

So if one had their own merchant account, I think you might feel a little more secure - maybe????

From my side, knowing someone (a PSP) is taking the risk on chargebacks for you is a real bonus. But as PornWolf said, what if your current chargeback ratio is already way lower than 1% and you use a service like NetBilling for scrub etc.

You would:
a) control the database (which means no disgrunteled employee of a PSP is gong to walk away with your email database)

b) control your acceptance/risk levels (sometimes I wonder if my low chargebacks are caused by too heavy scrubbing by my processors, or I am indeed balancing other webmasters high chargebacks with my own????)

These reasons with others are leading me to talk with everyone and try to make sense of what I should be doing for my own business, my affiliates and ultimately my customers.

Daniel Hicks
http://www.multibill.com/
http://www.hardprofits.com/
http://www.evildan.com/

Thanks for letting me know about the IBill thing Dan ;)

The only real problem I see with managing your own merchant account is the time it takes to do it right doesn't really save you money -- because you have invested the cash reserves, you have put your name and identity on the line so if you fuck up with the account -- provided you can find a large enough bank that will give you an account you can keep thru the new rules -- and something happens, you end up tmf, or in fine trouble you can't afford --

then what do you do?

History shows, and I'm not going to list the names since it would be rather rude at a minimum -- of how many large programs cannot manage their own accounts.

If you have resellers you want to get the most thru you can or they won't send traffic. If you protect yourself with a better scrub, then you net more but your initial joins are a bit lower -- something that is fine for you as an owner but not for promoting your program to affiliates.

So some of these large programs have or do let most anything thru, on their own merch accts -- one of them doesn't even scrub I've heard :) -- KNOWING they are going to lose the merch acct, burn the acquiring bank and hope they have cleared enough cash short term that losing their reserves and whatever didn't make the last wire insignificant compared to their profits.

Then the banks that issued accts to these companies get into hot water with their association and international, and a vicious cycle turns really ugly. They run from bank to bank, trying to roll over their db, which results in short term cash and long term cb rates going up -- which then pisses off the banks and cc's and causes them to create even more stringent rules. Which then catch the people who were on the borderline prior to the rule change, and now you've got another tier of people losing their accounts and trying to figure out how to get money back out of them.

It is a vicious cycle, and at times third party processors have gotten caught up in it -- those companies aren't here any more, which also demonstrates to the cc's that the same people who will wreck their own merch accts will wreck a third party acct, given the chance.

Lovely state of affairs.

Hey Kimmy

I understand your logic on this issue babe, but for me the following seems clear for my future.

1) Have an account with iBill
2) Have an account with CCBill
3) Have an account with 2000Charge
4) Have an account with Epoch
5) Have an account with WSB
6) Have an account with Jettis
7) Have my own merchant account
8) and "maybe" Have an account with PayPal (EBay permitting)

Then piece it all together so it tracks affiliates etc etc (which I am pretty close to doing as you know ;-)

Then cross my fingers, my legs, my gonads and anything else I can cross and hope this gets me through the storm.

And is this a good plan???

The short answer is - dunno :-(

And yes - iBill is still down :mad: :feels-hot :helpme

Hi,

It is correct that some do not know how to manage a merchant account and have burned through them. What should be realized however is the fact that those who have failed usually tried to manage it all themselves and just get a merchant account, process themselves, not use fraud scrubbing (or try to build their own), do their own customer service etc... It is truly not feasible to do it without proper resources. Having a strong gateway provider behind you that can take care of all of the day to day needs, fraud scrubbing, customer service, chargeback reporting and so on will definitely make all of the difference in the world. Our merchant turnover is exceptionally low for the reasons above. You will absolutely save money in the long run as well and have complete control which is extremely important to so many, and not as important to others.

Is is for sure that having a merchant account is not for everyone and there are benefits as well as pitfalls. When deciding to have a merchant account, one should absoultely work with a provider that knows this aspect of the business from all angles and has a good track record.

Mitch

iBill is back on line - Yahoooo:thumbsup

well, everyone is back.
Hicks,GFY, funny when you come out.
we all understand your game.
trying an old game in a new place?

:321GFY

Stop that ronin, I like the evil one :)

Mitch, I'm not referring to your average 5 figures a month guy forgetting to do his customer service right and ending up with 10 cb's too many --

I am referring to the people who run thousands of transactions a day thru the system by hook or by crook -- yes, they take short term profits in large amounts and that's one way to do business, so they are entitled to do it if they want -- but for people who are in the business long term, this creates a huge boomerang effect.

Of course, there are also a lot of acquiring banks and ISOs who can share the blame equally.

I'm not usually a fan of news articles since they seem to be either slanted or riddled with inaccuracies -- this one tho -- from a couple of years ago -- did prove to be close to the target, it's a long read but if you haven't seen it, interesting.

http://riverfronttimes.com/issues/20...l/1/index.html

what, you have sales to look at?:321GFY

i am done, being nice that is.

"If I could ?bounce? the way she has, shit? bounce me! She is a program operator with CC processing expertise. That is a great combination, imo."

Chris, are you looking for a job? :Graucho

Payrollpete, I'm sure Anthony will be happy to see that he's become part of this piss with Epoch :ugone2far

Interesting idea indeed but I wonder what % of trials hang in because they get too lazy to log back on to quit. In 30 mins who is gonna forget? I'd love to see data on how this is working for people. Like if you ran a 3 day before and had 35% trial conv, how did the 30 min compare?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dig420
[B]"If I could ?bounce? the way she has, shit? bounce me! She is a program operator with CC processing expertise. That is a great combination, imo."

go with the money. sorry it's only a one liner. :)

Great discussion guys & KK. This is as good as the last one. It's always informative when you get the processing guys together. I can't wait to see all of you at the bar at the same time at Internext!

Mitch reach out to me on ICQ at 146 75 429 5

MultiBill -

email me - [email protected] or hit me up on icq - 113422711 - just got some questions for ya

Hi Ronin

Thanks for the positive input

Your are a person of obvious intellect and style

Dan

Wow, I just finished reading all the posts in this thread...

I`m gonna take a nap now.

EPOCH: It's not a job; it's a way of life! (or 25 to Life:glugglug )

Chris
CEO
EPOCH