Well.. If you think about it, webmasters can promote the new program has a 1 day trial.. and not tell them about the 30 Minute Free...

My :2 cents:

the other thing is,

imagine all the charges on the guys card. 3 different charges showing, he'll get suspicious and chargeback it :)

Nah..

kman, I don't know about that. If you had full explicit disclosure I don't think it's at all guaranteed that your chargeback ratio is going to increase.

I could be wrong, but we'll never know without testing.

A full explicit disclosure means shit, There will still be rampant billing nightmares, fraud etc

why?

are you trying to be funny?

For the same reason dialer disclosures were a fucking joke.

Because the surfer is an idiot.

nope. why are chargebacks going to be any more rampant than with 3 day trials?

imho if you put a full disclosure along with maybe some warning text that frequent chargebacks will result in your card going into a scrub list, you'll be fine.

surfers intending to join and cancel will go elsewhere.

dialers are much worse... they're like phone sex, the charges seem to come out of nowhere

not that I would know about phone sex :Graucho

lol

Dig your a paysite owner you should know about TODAY'S porn surfer.. There cheap and there SMART.. They want a wank for nothing.

Todays porn surfer/ buyer is not like the one from 97, they are a more advanced breed!

They will still disupute everything and anything, in the end its the webmasters getting fucked from chargebacks galore.

I like this idea a lot for other uses, just not with subscription based porn sites.

i'm not saying you're right and I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying that I'm not going to accept it as gospel without testing. I think I could make it work.

Are you kidding?

This might of worked a few years back, today i dont think it would do much.

Its worth a test, you should let us know your LONGTERM results from this after you test it.

I think I've already made it clear to most English speaking people that I'm NOT kidding Fatpad

this thread has turned into one of those that make me smile :)

all the power to you on the free 30 minute trials, if you can use it to actually increase your overall, longterm bottom line...

We're also amongst those going with no trial...I'm not a fan of free or even cheap trials either....I just feel if a surfer likes the tour and wants to see what's inside, why not get the most out of them you can? they sure as hell will try to see it for as cheap as they can (as mentioned by [Labret]). Most affiliates have gotten lazy in marketing, so instead of selling the site, they rely (sometimes too much, IMHO) on just selling how cheap the guy can yank his crank....it's almost resulted in porn surfers comparative shopping...what a travesty....porn is and should remain an impulse buy.



What are the chargeback numbers on the EZclick program? We're toying with cross sales, but I wouldn't want to end up with considerably more chargebacks just because of it....

VERY VERY GOOD POINT !!! :thumbsup

My sentiments exactly.

Hey Kimmy

Wassup with me

Workin like a bitch - geez, I just wish the rules with billing would stand still for 5 minutes so I can get a goin with my major projects

Right now though, two proggies are about to hit the street using Multibill. Mine and one of my best friends

So the big system is a comin - 4 sure

Just like all lthose people who get 30 minutes of tuggin time for free - oooohhhh bugger, back to my Tim Tams ;-)

Hugs
Dan

Hi,

Just think how great life would be if us billing companies and webmasters could convince EVERYONE not to offer trials anymore. Disputes would drop tremendously and we would all make more money....

But seriously folks;

We have merchants who offer 30 minute trials for some time (over 8 months) now with mixed results. There are definitely more disputes and huge increases in customer service needs. If offering a 30 minute trial, we recommend not billing the customer for an hour or two to give a little slack for the cancellations. I can be lucrative if you do it properly and keep increasing the overall transaction volume to offset tthe increased chargebacks. However, I would not personally ofeer it on my own pay sites. A 3 day trial is my recommendation and more of our merchants have great success with 3-5 day trials than any other method.

Mitch

For once I agree with Mitch.

Bah, let's just try it all and see, stop the IF's And Butt's!

Try it and if it doesn't work, well woopy Dink! Go back to the normal shit!

:)

have fun.

What's gonna happen is the sponsor will have a valuable email address to follow up on. The surfer will cancel the 30 min. freebie and then be offered special deals or a membership on another site which the webmaster gets no credit for and ends up working for free.
I get Fucken pissed when I see a box on a paysite asking for the surfers email "to get free shit by email" Yea right! Who gets Fucked? Boycott any of these bastards who pull this shit!
Sounds Like bullshit to me!! What the fuck benifit is the webmaster possibly ever get out of these cancelled surfers?
You can damn well bet someone else is from all these porn surfers with CC's who might just want a slightly different site for membership. See the light?
Oh well go ahead and keep fucken the stupid ones then when the webmaster complains about his trials converting you can blame his traffic or promotion, because the surfer came from there. Some fucken sponsors are getting so bad that they don't even wan't your site to convert they would rather have it convert in the POPUP HELL EXIT that you probably don't make diddly from. Imagine that! I'd move my shit in a heartbeat when this happens! What Next?:mad:

yup yup

and soon the 35 dollar per 30 minute trial signups sponsors will come along.

LOL

The razors will be working overtime when that happens.

Chargebacks are only as bad as the paysite...Our shit has always been under 1%. You gota give the webmaster what the site says, make sure the username/password process is easy as shit, offer your own support that answers e-mails and use the processor's support. We use Epoch.

When we moved to Epoch we saw a 20% increase in sales and the bottom line is MONEY.

If most paysites would pry into the members more they would find out why they get upset. Here is the number one issue. The free site webmaster is using their own content...In a gallery let's say. They click to our site and signup and can't find that content. That pisses them off, they wack off, goto sleep, 1 month later they chargeback cause it isnt want they wanted.

Every processor has issues or has had issues.

I-bill not paying on web900 and down all the damn time.
CCbill goes down for us more than Ibill is down.

Watch your recurring counts with CCbill and Ibill...Watch it on a custom webmaster program. Notice that BOTH will loose track of rebills to webmasters..Oh shit did I say that? Not really to webmasters but they wont tell our system when they cancel. Or hell wait..3 days AFTER 30 days they rebill. Even at times the person doesnt cancel and it tells us they did killing the username/password which creates problems for us

We did not notice this issue on the stand alone program but we did when we went into custom code. That is why we don't use them as a main processors anymore, why when we left our sales went up and our recurring base started to GROW.

PayPal loads ISO images and the stupid img key is case sensitive.
Epoch has a bad history of not paying.

After that I cant tell you about netbilling or jetis or any of the others. 2000 charge seems to be ok.

Epoch had problems in the PAST. If all of us looked in our past i'm sure we have all fucked up at some point and some of us even in the adult business.

Epoch has unfucked their business and is running solid now. Our charge backs are low, money comes in, they work with us on special features and all is good.

With the 30 minute deal you guys are looking to big. Yes some webmaster program will probally come out with 30 minute free shit and pay $20 bucks..But think of it more as a way to get e-mails or run a small paysite. 30 minutes free, rebill monthly at $4.95. Valid cc e-mail and recurring membership at the same time.

If you offer them a good members area they will stay.

I agree with Labret but maybe this technology could be used responsibly... remember 30 minutes is the least amount of time you can set this up for...

Consider this example... You give the surfer trial access for 3 hours. Now he can't complain about not having enough time to cancel... Surely he has enough time to review the site in 3 hours -- it's fair... Most likely he will take his time looking at the site -- jerk off -- fall asleep... now if he's poor he thinks ok I'll set my fucking alarm so I can cancel within 2 hours 30 minutes just to be safe so that leaves him 2 hours to sleep... alarm goes off... snooze button... snooze button... LOL

I'm sure there will be a sweet spot -- 6 hours, 9 hours...? You never know until you test it... Since I get most signups at night it seems like that would be an important factor -- maybe a 12 hour trial would work great -- maybe the surfer will plan -- "ok I'll get up early and cancel before I go to do X in the morning" -- LOL he will forget or his gf/wife won't understand the urgency of a porno membership being more important than her and XYZ...

i can't say i like the idea, but I don't say it will fail for sure until I see it tested. I find good for some mainstream services where you have to deal with webmasters, but I'm not sure if it will offer on porn sites. As you already said, the client is always right... If the surfer gets a prompt to leave the site or he'll be billed for a monthly membership it's ok.

The model free->trial->full month membership is worse than trial-> membership.

Not giving the option to the surfer to see when he'll be billed (actually when the 30min has passed) will probably be a big chargeback problem. Personally as a consumer I wouldn't like to be billed without getting such prompt.

Flyntdigital gives 1 day free trial, but they have to rebill at near $50 in order to manage make a profit.... Obviously this model will not work for many sites.

But again this is an option that you decide to use or not. You are the one that will see what works best for you and your webmasters, so having a CC processor giving you this option is not bad, but good.

or maybe it's not since we train the surfers for 30min rides to paysites. Time will show.

No need to further reply on this topic, I think I covered all possible situations :1orglaugh

Well said, Soul Rebel! I agree with everything you said completely! :thumbsup

[Labret],

Damn... I thought you always agreed with me, like Kimmykim. :-)

Mitch

I forget who made mention of three transactions here -- but to clear it up, I don't see where that would be the case. -- If you had 30 minutes free, then a free trial, then a paid recur -- you are talking one transaction, since the pre-auth at the original trial is for the paid recur amount, with the day to rebill on the amount already in the system. If it has to go free trial, paid trial, paid rebill, then it's much less attractive.

Actually I can see how this is an incentive to get the surfer to try a site -- and where IF disclosed properly it could be used to add to the bottom line, for the site owner.

I can't for the life of me though, figure out how in the hell you could pay resellers on the transactions yet. People who pay on active signups I guess could, and of course the % payout people could, but there's no way per join could pay on it legitimately without some serious testing.

haha, I just got back to the states & read this...
what a joke, i am already missing my last two payments from
Clay.
is this another way for me to get screwed out of more money?
if you can't pay out your clients, why should I jump on this new deal?

:321GFY