LawPal What Is Your Opinion? - GoFuckYourself.com

Pathfinder · 08-21-2002, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Posted By Drops

Now the problem..

We found out from a few people that while at the Florida show, that we sent her to.. Plane, Hotel, Spending Cash.. whatever whatver.. Plus getting paid... She had the nerve to NOT to promote our program and promote others and use the trip to find a differant gig in porn..

Ok.. working for me may be a bit tough.. whatever.. say what you want.. But using MY $$$ to better yourself..

FUCK YOU!

Your a Lying, Psycho, Homeless, Drugged Ass Bitch!

You fucked my partner and I when we trusted your sorry ass! You had no fucking $$$, I gave you a job, and you fucked us..

We should of kept your ass fired the first time.. But no... we thought you can bring something to our company.. But we see your true colors..

I don't know what pissed me off more.. You complaining that you worked for nothing .. @ 2k a month... (2k more than you were making sleeping on your sisters couch) or the fact that you used us..

Fuck you Liz.. I hope that you never work in this business again..

You got issues.. A fucking ton of them.. Don't bring them on to anyone else...

Quote:

Posted By RockDaddy

I don't know you lilbitch but regardless of what happened, there are laws that are there to protect people in these situations. If Cherry Bucks had a human resources dept., they would be shitting themselves right now.

Here's a link to get you started
http://forums.monster.com/viewmessa...ssageid=2409778

In particular, this is from the bottom of the page

"One final point, many people sue former employers who have intentionally and maliciously lied about them. You don't have to be a millionaire to file a civil suit if you know you've been harmed by intentional and maliciously false statements that are made about you by a former employer, it happens all the time"

There are only certain "legal" things a company may say about an ex employee.

Even though I don't know you, I probably wouldn't hire you myself now because of this thread. There would always be some doubt in my mind about things and I couldn't trust you completely as I should be able to trust an employee. I'm sure others probably feel this same way, and because of that, this statement made by Cherry Bucks has caused you harm by their "intentional and maliciously" statements.

Good luck.

Read Thread Here:

http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/showth...pagenu mber=1

Care to opine about Lilbitch having a chance of winning a law suite assuming that certain accusations made by drops are not true.

From a layman's view it appears to me that because it is an Employer blasting an employee on a public board, if certain accusations made are without merit, she would have a nice little law suite.

Verbosa · 08-21-2002, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pathfinder

Read Thread Here:

http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/showth...pagenu mber=1

Care to opine about Lilbitch having a chance of winning a law suite assuming that certain accusations made by drops are not true.

From a layman's view it appears to me that because it is an Employer blasting an employee on a public board, if certain accusations made are without merit, she would have a nice little law suite.

I'd be interested to see a qualified legal opinion, too. I'm no lawyer, but that thread is rife with what appear to be libelous statements, along with plenty of evidence that clearly refutes drops' accusations.

Pathfinder · 08-21-2002, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Verbosa

I'd be interested to see a qualified legal opinion, too. I'm no lawyer, but that thread is rife with what appear to be libelous statements, along with plenty of evidence that clearly refutes drops' accusations.

The only accusation that I see that has been refuted by the statements of other Webmasters is:

Quote:

She had the nerve to NOT to promote our program...

There are several other accusations.

Pathfinder · 08-21-2002, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pornopete
The charge would be slander with malicious intent.

If lil'bitch would be able to prove that the post in question was made with intent to keep her from finding new employement she may have a case against them.

Are you a layman or an attorney?

.:Frog:. · 08-21-2002, 07:54 AM

So your saying next time someone insults me on a silly msg board I can sue them for slander as well?
Hey this sounds pretty good....More like fucking lame.
But who knows, isn't a Fat guying trying to sue McDonalds?

Pathfinder · 08-21-2002, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by .:Frog:.
So your saying next time someone insults me on a silly msg board I can sue them for slander as well?
Hey this sounds pretty good....More like fucking lame.
But who knows, isn't a Fat guying trying to sue McDonalds?

No. That is not what is being said. This is not a pissing match, it is an Employer and Employee scenario which is (I think) an important difference.

.:Frog:. · 08-21-2002, 07:58 AM

I know it makes a difference if its employer & employee - my post wasn't serious.

Pathfinder · 08-21-2002, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pornopete

I am a layman who is well informed.

We...I am interested in the opinion of an Attorney who should be better informed as regards law and chances of winning a suite.

If these guys are not full of BS they have informed everyone of their extensive wealth so an attorney (if there is a case and a good chance of winning) will take it on contingency.

chodadog · 08-21-2002, 08:08 AM

Aren't we all?

Verbosa · 08-21-2002, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pornopete
The charge would be slander with malicious intent.

If lil'bitch would be able to prove that the post in question was made with intent to keep her from finding new employement she may have a case against them.

The thread is called, "Beware Webmaster Program Owners!" and in the first post drops writes:

Fuck you Liz.. I hope that you never work in this business again..

Not too difficult to see what the intent was.

Captain Canada · 08-21-2002, 08:48 AM

Have you read any of Law Pals previous posts - and you still want to ask his opinion about anything?

Pathfinder · 08-21-2002, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Captain Canada
Have you read any of Law Pals previous posts - and you still want to ask his opinion about anything?

Yes. He, as an attorney presents certain legal view points. And non attorneys, such as yourself, have disagreed with some of his legal view points.

Ask me who's legal opinion I place more value?

Dildozer · 08-21-2002, 09:00 AM

Did lilbitch reply to the other thread? I'm way too fuckin lazy to read all of it. Damn that guy's gonna win the dvd player as well...

It does look like harm was intended, especially with a title like that. I don't see why it wouldn't be worth talking it over with an attorney

RockDaddy · 08-21-2002, 09:04 AM

I was in management for many many years and we had to treat references with kid gloves because of lawsuits. Name, employed from and to, eligible for rehire yes or no, etc..

I could still give a bad reference without "giving a bad reference" pauses and hesitations at the right time, etc.. goes a long ways. Anyone that has a lot of experience checking references learns how to pick up on these cues.

If this were just any old "silly board" (I know you were kidding) then that would be one thing but being the type of business this is and this being a major adult webmaster board, this has seriously hurt her credentials I'm sure.

Although no one may come right out and say, "I refuse to hire you because of what I've heard about you" doesn't mean that, that is not the reason. I would not come straight out and say that either, but I would not hire them. Sometimes giving a reason for not hiring someone can get you in just as much legal trouble.

A lot of her potential future positions would probably come right from this board, that's why that post was so detrimental.

And yes, I'm definately a layman. I had to run everything through human resources and they told me what I could and couldn't say.

Be interesting to see what lawpal or some other qualified person has to say about it. I don't know either party but the way they were insulting everyone here, I couldn't give a shit what happens to them. Otherwise I might of just kept my mouth shut.

Pathfinder · 08-21-2002, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dildozer
Did lilbitch reply to the other thread? I'm way too fuckin lazy to read all of it. Damn that guy's gonna win the dvd player as well...

It does look like harm was intended, especially with a title like that. I don't see why it wouldn't be worth talking it over with an attorney

No.

Pathfinder · 08-21-2002, 09:48 AM

AaronM has added this information:

Read Here:

http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/showth...6&pagenumber=9

[quote]1: Liz was a contracted worker for CherryBucks, NOT an employee.[quote]

This may have bearing on the subject.

lawpal · 08-21-2002, 09:58 AM

I support free speech 100%, but obvious falsehoods and disparaging remarks make me cringe because of the potential liability they carry with them. Plus, lawsuits by former employees can be very expensive. You could easily spend upwards of $25,000 - $50,000 defending such a lawsuit, and you still might lose and be forced to pay damages. Lawsuits are always a crap shoot, and your odds are generally no better than 50-50.

I firmly believe the message boards serve an important purpose to point out cheaters and rip-off artists, because keeping this business honest is importatn.

At the same time, you have to be careful with the words you choose. It is one thing to say that you had a bad experience working with someone and that you do not think they were a good employee based upon the services rendered in exchange for money paid, or you thought they stole your money because they did not provide you with the services or product you contracted for. On the other hand it is clearly something different to call someone a "Lying, Psycho, Homeless, Drugged Ass Bitch!" Those terms, because they are purportedly factual statements used in the context of a post specifically aimed to cause damage to their potential to work in an specific business might be construed by a jury of your peers as defamation, and if they resulted in her inability to get another job they might be construed as having caused her to suffer damages.

There are a wide variety of factors which a court might also have to take into consideration before you even get to that point, and state and federal laws in this area are very numerous and complicated. It is quite possible that this specific type of issue has been addressed in your state, and if you were concerend about it you should consider retaining a local lawyer to research the specific issue to determine what, if any, precendent exists which would influence the potential case.

So, bottom line, could she sue her former employer for his comments? Of course she could. You can sue just about anyone for almost anything. I was surprised by their initial post. If they paid her money to perform specific services, and she basically stole the money and did not performe they services they might be able to sue her to recover the salary and expenses she was paid. I would also investigate that.

Sorry if this does not answer all the questions surrounding this issue. It is a huge problem, and many lawyers dedicate their lifetime just to work on these types of issues.

Here are a couple articles which might help you to investigate this further on your own.

A recent article on USLaw.com reviewed the current argument that exists as to whether discovery of the identity of message board posters should be allowed

http://www.uslaw.com/library/article...tml?area_id=41

Small Business Definitions - helpful workplace definitions related to this issue

http://businessweek.findlaw.com/empl.../HFCHP5_m.html

Defamation on the Internet

http://www.cyberlibel.com/defnet.html

Is a bad reference defamation?

http://www.references-etc.com/standa...employment.htm

Defamation
http://www.gottrouble.com/legal/busi...efamation.html

lawpal · 08-21-2002, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Captain Canada
Have you read any of Law Pals previous posts - and you still want to ask his opinion about anything?

thanks

and

Pathfinder · 08-21-2002, 10:26 AM

LawPal:

Thanks for the input and thanks for the links. I will be checking the links out, but at a later time. My clock is winding down so I must rest.

Kat - Fast · 08-21-2002, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RockDaddy
... Anyone that has a lot of experience checking references learns how to pick up on these cues.
....

So can you help with the term 'fiercely loyal' that's on one of my old references...?

eroswebmaster · 08-21-2002, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RockDaddy

I could still give a bad reference without "giving a bad reference" pauses and hesitations at the right time, etc.. goes a long ways. Anyone that has a lot of experience checking references learns how to pick up on these cues.

LOL no kidding...my favorite was to always repeat over and over..."All I can do is confirm they were employed here."

lawpal · 08-21-2002, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eroswebmaster

"All I can do is confirm they were employed here."

Exactly

Captain Canada · 08-21-2002, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pathfinder

Yes. He, as an attorney presents certain legal view points. And non attorneys, such as yourself, have disagreed with some of his legal view points.

Ask me who's legal opinion I place more value?

I dont really know what you mean by some people like myself disagreeing with Law Pals legal opinion. I have never agreed, disagreed or posted anything that would come close to me calling it a legal opinion.

However I just think it is insane for anyone to suppose they can come close to offering anything near to a qualified legal opinion without knowing all the facts in this or any other case.

lawpal · 08-21-2002, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Captain Canada

However I just think it is insane for anyone to suppose they can come close to offering anything near to a qualified legal opinion without knowing all the facts in this or any other case.

You raise an important point. Each case is different, and each requires independent examination of all of the facts to determine how to proceed.

Pathfinder · 08-21-2002, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Captain Canada

I dont really know what you mean by some people like myself disagreeing with Law Pals legal opinion. I have never agreed, disagreed or posted anything that would come close to me calling it a legal opinion.

However I just think it is insane for anyone to suppose they can come close to offering anything near to a qualified legal opinion without knowing all the facts in this or any other case.

This is the second time today that I have made a mistaken assumption.

LawPal has had negative posts made about his legal opining and I assumed based upon your post

Quote:

Have you read any of Law Pals previous posts - and you still want to ask his opinion about anything?

that you were one of those that had made negative posts also.

I apologize for having made a mistaken assumption.

As regards a "qualified legal opinion without knowing all the facts..." I of course did not expect any definitive response, only a general response.

His general response and the links that he provided has provided me with more knowledge about the subject matter than I previously had.

I am pleased that he took the time to respond.

RockDaddy · 08-21-2002, 02:36 PM

Quote:

So can you help with the term 'fiercely loyal' that's on one of my old references...?

I would take that as a good thing although a little overboard

It would sound to me like they liked you and were going a little extra to give you a good reference. That in itself is a good sign.

That's what I would get out of it if I were checking your references, of course it would depend on the whole conversation but that part sounds good to me.

Pathfinder · 08-21-2002, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eroswebmaster

LOL no kidding...my favorite was to always repeat over and over..."All I can do is confirm they were employed here."

Sounds safe enough, but repeated over and over, the prospective employer might take it as a negative.

Kat - Fast · 08-21-2002, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RockDaddy

I would take that as a good thing although a little overboard
It would sound to me like they liked you and were going a little extra to give you a good reference. That in itself is a good sign.

That's what I would get out of it if I were checking your references, of course it would depend on the whole conversation but that part sounds good to me.

Thanks chap - I was always worried about that comment

Pathfinder · 08-21-2002, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kat

Thanks chap - I was always worried about that comment

Sounded good to me.

UnseenWorld · 08-21-2002, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lawpal
I support free speech 100%...At the same time, you have to be careful with the words you choose. It is one thing to say that you had a bad experience working with someone and that you do not think they were a good employee based upon the services rendered in exchange for money paid, or you thought they stole your money because they did not provide you with the services or product you contracted for. On the other hand it is clearly something different to call someone a "Lying, Psycho, Homeless, Drugged Ass Bitch!" Those terms, because they are purportedly factual statements used in the context of a post specifically aimed to cause damage to their potential to work in an specific business might be construed by a jury of your peers as defamation, and if they resulted in her inability to get another job they might be construed as having caused her to suffer damages.

Thank you. I am always telling people that simply because you are on a message board doesn't exempt you from lawsuits for defamation and other losses and damages, so people should put the brain in gear before they open their mouths and realize that you might even lose a lawsuit if what you say about someone is 100% true! Maybe you can't prove what you say, or maybe you just pile it on way too heavy. Either way, the final say is not in your hands. It's rendered in a courtroom by people who don't really know either party except for what they are allowed to hear and consider.

AaronM · 08-21-2002, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lawpal

You raise an important point. Each case is different, and each requires independent examination of all of the facts to determine how to proceed.

Finally, some common sense.

08-21-2002, 07:54 AM	#5
.:Frog:. Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: ~ C A N A D A ~ Posts: 2,123	So your saying next time someone insults me on a silly msg board I can sue them for slander as well? Hey this sounds pretty good....More like fucking lame. But who knows, isn't a Fat guying trying to sue McDonalds? Last edited by .:Frog:.; 08-21-2002 at 07:57 AM..

08-21-2002, 09:00 AM	#13
Dildozer Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Montreal Posts: 7,519	Did lilbitch reply to the other thread? I'm way too fuckin lazy to read all of it. Damn that guy's gonna win the dvd player as well... It does look like harm was intended, especially with a title like that. I don't see why it wouldn't be worth talking it over with an attorney __________________ Spam link here

08-21-2002, 07:58 AM	#7
.:Frog:. Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: ~ C A N A D A ~ Posts: 2,123	I know it makes a difference if its employer & employee - my post wasn't serious.

08-21-2002, 08:08 AM	#9
chodadog Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 9,736	Aren't we all?

08-21-2002, 08:48 AM	#11
Captain Canada Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 469	Have you read any of Law Pals previous posts - and you still want to ask his opinion about anything?

08-21-2002, 09:04 AM	#14
RockDaddy Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 750	I was in management for many many years and we had to treat references with kid gloves because of lawsuits. Name, employed from and to, eligible for rehire yes or no, etc.. I could still give a bad reference without "giving a bad reference" pauses and hesitations at the right time, etc.. goes a long ways. Anyone that has a lot of experience checking references learns how to pick up on these cues. If this were just any old "silly board" (I know you were kidding) then that would be one thing but being the type of business this is and this being a major adult webmaster board, this has seriously hurt her credentials I'm sure. Although no one may come right out and say, "I refuse to hire you because of what I've heard about you" doesn't mean that, that is not the reason. I would not come straight out and say that either, but I would not hire them. Sometimes giving a reason for not hiring someone can get you in just as much legal trouble. A lot of her potential future positions would probably come right from this board, that's why that post was so detrimental. And yes, I'm definately a layman. I had to run everything through human resources and they told me what I could and couldn't say. Be interesting to see what lawpal or some other qualified person has to say about it. I don't know either party but the way they were insulting everyone here, I couldn't give a shit what happens to them. Otherwise I might of just kept my mouth shut.

08-21-2002, 09:48 AM	#16
Pathfinder theking of trailer parks Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Tehachapi, California Posts: 2,277	AaronM has added this information: Read Here: http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/showth...6&pagenumber=9 [quote]1: Liz was a contracted worker for CherryBucks, NOT an employee.[quote] This may have bearing on the subject.

08-21-2002, 09:58 AM	#17
lawpal Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Miami Posts: 824	I support free speech 100%, but obvious falsehoods and disparaging remarks make me cringe because of the potential liability they carry with them. Plus, lawsuits by former employees can be very expensive. You could easily spend upwards of $25,000 - $50,000 defending such a lawsuit, and you still might lose and be forced to pay damages. Lawsuits are always a crap shoot, and your odds are generally no better than 50-50. I firmly believe the message boards serve an important purpose to point out cheaters and rip-off artists, because keeping this business honest is importatn. At the same time, you have to be careful with the words you choose. It is one thing to say that you had a bad experience working with someone and that you do not think they were a good employee based upon the services rendered in exchange for money paid, or you thought they stole your money because they did not provide you with the services or product you contracted for. On the other hand it is clearly something different to call someone a "Lying, Psycho, Homeless, Drugged Ass Bitch!" Those terms, because they are purportedly factual statements used in the context of a post specifically aimed to cause damage to their potential to work in an specific business might be construed by a jury of your peers as defamation, and if they resulted in her inability to get another job they might be construed as having caused her to suffer damages. There are a wide variety of factors which a court might also have to take into consideration before you even get to that point, and state and federal laws in this area are very numerous and complicated. It is quite possible that this specific type of issue has been addressed in your state, and if you were concerend about it you should consider retaining a local lawyer to research the specific issue to determine what, if any, precendent exists which would influence the potential case. So, bottom line, could she sue her former employer for his comments? Of course she could. You can sue just about anyone for almost anything. I was surprised by their initial post. If they paid her money to perform specific services, and she basically stole the money and did not performe they services they might be able to sue her to recover the salary and expenses she was paid. I would also investigate that. Sorry if this does not answer all the questions surrounding this issue. It is a huge problem, and many lawyers dedicate their lifetime just to work on these types of issues. Here are a couple articles which might help you to investigate this further on your own. A recent article on USLaw.com reviewed the current argument that exists as to whether discovery of the identity of message board posters should be allowed http://www.uslaw.com/library/article...tml?area_id=41 Small Business Definitions - helpful workplace definitions related to this issue http://businessweek.findlaw.com/empl.../HFCHP5_m.html Defamation on the Internet http://www.cyberlibel.com/defnet.html Is a bad reference defamation? http://www.references-etc.com/standa...employment.htm Defamation http://www.gottrouble.com/legal/busi...efamation.html

08-21-2002, 10:26 AM	#19
Pathfinder theking of trailer parks Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Tehachapi, California Posts: 2,277	LawPal: Thanks for the input and thanks for the links. I will be checking the links out, but at a later time. My clock is winding down so I must rest.