Why per-sign sponsors don't allow 3rd party tracking/stats access? - GoFuckYourself.com

RMG · 08-21-2002, 04:56 PM

Without stating the obvious, why do these types of programs not allow 3rd party stats/tracking? With nothing to hide, whats the problem?

Fletch XXX · 08-21-2002, 04:57 PM

Oooooh.

sexygoat · 08-21-2002, 04:58 PM

they shave.

[Labret] · 08-21-2002, 04:59 PM

Do you really think a program can afford to pay you 30 to 40 dollars per signup... even with trials?

I am going to start a program that will pay 175 dollars per trial signup.

The difference? Newbs will actually believe they get 35 per signup.

RMG · 08-21-2002, 05:00 PM

Going to go grab a beer and maybe a bite to eat...be back later.

FlyingIguana · 08-21-2002, 05:00 PM

it would most likely slow down accusations of shaving. but even showing 3rd party stats people would still bitch about shaving.

i would like to see 3rd party stats for per sign up programs, would put me a lil more at ease. duno, maybe i'm just a paranoid fuck.

RMG · 08-21-2002, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by [Labret]
Do you really think a program can afford to pay you 30 to 40 dollars per signup... even with trials?

I am going to start a program that will pay 175 dollars per trial signup.

The difference? Newbs will actually believe they get 35 per signup.

Well realistically, the business model for the trial/persign deal seems a bit far fetched. Granted that these affiliate programs generate a good bit of extra revenue from their popups, most persign sponsors have some of the worst members area in the business.

RogerV · 08-21-2002, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by [Labret]
Do you really think a program can afford to pay you 30 to 40 dollars per signup... even with trials?

I am going to start a program that will pay 175 dollars per trial signup.

The difference? Newbs will actually believe they get 35 per signup.

Why does everyone worry about shaving send traffic to all programs and watch your bottom line and see who makes you the most.

we pay $25 on a $1 trial no shaving or deductions
yes we lose money on the program we make our money in other area's with the traffic and joins.
Every program has its own formula to profit. find the one that makes you the most money.

Krome · 08-21-2002, 05:20 PM

Flynt Digital uses thrid party stats, it is pulled directly from the Jetbill system.

Kimmykim · 08-21-2002, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RMG
Without stating the obvious, why do these types of programs not allow 3rd party stats/tracking? With nothing to hide, whats the problem?

Lots of answers, some include Labrets I'm sure, lol.

First one to consider is multiple processors. Pay per join sponsors use them, and cut their own checks. What a fucking nightmare it would be if customer service had to reconcile three different processors different and separate pay periods into one statement for every webmaster that asked, and there would be many I can promise you. We pay weekly, some processors pay us monthly, some every other week, some weekly, and they all pay on different periods when the checks come in. Then there are check sales, which are yet another processor, so let's add that to the mix.

The bottom line is sooooo simple, I just do not understand why it's so hard to figure out.

If you send the same amount of traffic to different programs, who pays you the most money on time?

What else matters? I'm all ears.

RMG · 08-22-2002, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim

Lots of answers, some include Labrets I'm sure, lol.

First one to consider is multiple processors. Pay per join sponsors use them, and cut their own checks. What a fucking nightmare it would be if customer service had to reconcile three different processors different and separate pay periods into one statement for every webmaster that asked, and there would be many I can promise you. We pay weekly, some processors pay us monthly, some every other week, some weekly, and they all pay on different periods when the checks come in. Then there are check sales, which are yet another processor, so let's add that to the mix.

The bottom line is sooooo simple, I just do not understand why it's so hard to figure out.

If you send the same amount of traffic to different programs, who pays you the most money on time?

What else matters? I'm all ears.

Honestly, I was simply curious....I have little experience on the affiliate side of the business and was looking for the answer that you just gave.

nocostporn · 08-22-2002, 04:17 AM

I'm sure something could be done to allow people to view their 3rd party stats as well as the sponsors
I've been looking at some stat tracking packages that some of the big boys use <no names mentioned> and believe me,there is built in shaving...not saying they use it though

RMG · 08-22-2002, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nocostporn
I'm sure something could be done to allow people to view their 3rd party stats as well as the sponsors
I've been looking at some stat tracking packages that some of the big boys use <no names mentioned> and believe me,there is built in shaving...not saying they use it though

Hmm..having that kind of power and not using/abusing it....hard to believe.

Martin · 08-22-2002, 04:31 AM

nocostporn · 08-22-2002, 04:32 AM

well when you pay $35-$50k for stat tracking I think its ok to cheat your webmasters out of a few signups to pay for it

when you break it down though(if its a large sponsor with a big webmaster database) shaving 3% isnt really hurting anybody lol

ControlThy · 08-22-2002, 04:41 AM

NEVER trust a sponsor that says that they are NOT shaving.
Unless they use third party statistics which they can't shave. (although money buys ALOT).

NOTHING is shave proof.

gothweb · 08-22-2002, 04:49 AM

AAARGH.

nocostporn · 08-22-2002, 04:50 AM

the thing is,3rd party processors are more "watched" by the higher ups I believe...So the chances of them shaving are very slim..There is no commitee watching each and every sponsorship program on the other hand... I can honestly say that I've signed up with a program under my referral code and the signup didnt show up on a few occasions...
but I'm going to shutup now because people will say I'm shaving in 5 months I'm sure

hyper · 08-22-2002, 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim

If you send the same amount of traffic to different programs, who pays you the most money on time?

What else matters? I'm all ears.

Nothing else matters..
you wont believe how sick i am of chasing people down for my money.

just chased another one down yesterday..
they said "oh we had a delay"..
thanks for letting me fucking know about it..

TheDoc · 08-22-2002, 06:16 AM

Reason we don't give access to all the stats is it would be crazy. We would have to ad in some of the most crazy tracking ever known to man. I-bill, epoch, ccbill ect all want shit tracked (for internal use) differently. When a programer writes a script to pull stats like most per signup programs we have to code each one differently to pull the stats down. This would be damn near impossible to do.

Now about shaving. How do we make money?

Ok., First off e-mails not all but most programs take the e-mails in the join form and on the site boxes without a 2nd opt in option. They hit submit and it's over with.

Exits (2 and 3+) produce a fucking stupid volume of signups.
We get paid $35 for an exit sale and we paid you $35 for a sale you sent us. Simple trade off. This kills a % of signups that we don't have to worry about.

E-mails sending back to us and others do a huge volume of trade off. Think people can really cancel from those lists? Well I guess they can but they go in the wash list.

Sales in the sites. Sex Shops and Casinos, All I can say is fucking people buy the shit out of it.

Video tapes for that niche, for us this is a major sale. Big dick members buy big dick videos by the fucking truck load. Even other videos.

Penis pill blah stuff, Same deal.

Member goes to cancel we resign them back up at 9.95
They cancel that they get a month free and rebill again at 4.95
They quit again and we give them all sites for a buck or two.
Cancel e-mail has promos to other sites.
Signup e-mail even has fucking promos.
Cross sales on most processors now really help.

A money program banks on the little webmaster. The 10,000 guys sending 30 hits a day from their piss ass site getting pure SE traffic. Gold for us on those exits.

Our own production of traffic which I think most programs do. Our own tgp, se, spam for some people, opt in lists, whatever. Keeping ahead of our webmasters in sales. If webmasters produce 100 sales and I produce 200 sales, I win hands down.

I don't have an exact % but something like 2% of all members forget they have the membership for very long periods of time.

All in all some programs shave, yes. Some don't. Some have to while others don't need to. Bottom line is what are you making.

If you think a money program might be shaving you try a test signup or two. Some programs will ban ya for that so read the terms

I talk with most the major guys in the business and I do think some shave while I think many many other's do not shave. I do know just because one or two sites convert real fucking bad it does not mean they shave. Most the time when we do exit trades with other programs we have to find the niches that do good for us. I can use 10 of X money programs site and their teen site sucks. Put another sites teen site in it's place and it does great. Does not mean they shave just the way traffic works.

2 things I would think. Processor based programs stand the least chance of being able to shave. And programs that have been around for ages which probably don't need to shave now if they ever did as they have a solid system in place and know all the tricks. Even new programs it's real simple math once you kinda have a clue what you are doing.

In my eyes shaving is not the real issue. I'm more worries that them fucks are going to send me my check

Bottom line it's the money that matters.

SykkBoy · 08-22-2002, 09:06 AM

TD, well put....

also, who says you can't shave 3rd party stats? Just set the percenatge to zero or the recur payments to zero...

bottomline is, do you trust who you are sending your traffic to? If not, then don't send it....fuck, if you go into a restaurant and get food poisoning, do you keep going back to the restaurant?

I'm sure part of the fun we'll have when we go pay per signup will be the fun board postings of "DarkDollars shaved me" and "DarkDollars kicked me from their program for no reason"

my favorite posts are the guys sending 30 hits a day claiming they are being shaved....hahahahaha

Freeway · 08-22-2002, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nocostporn
I think its ok to cheat your webmasters out of a few signups

Your fucking out of your mind dude.

DarkJedi · 08-22-2002, 09:26 AM

great post Doc

nocostporn · 08-22-2002, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Freeway

Your fucking out of your mind dude.

lol it was a joke,obviously...being that I'm a webmaster ya fucker

nocostporn · 08-22-2002, 09:37 AM

good post TD,I think some people might have just learned a thing or two

Eric · 08-22-2002, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RMG
Without stating the obvious, why do these types of programs not allow 3rd party stats/tracking? With nothing to hide, whats the problem?

RMG,

Fix your sig man. SHEESH!

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/gfy_faqs.html

Eric

pr0 · 08-22-2002, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SykkBoy2
if you go into a restaurant and get food poisoning, do you keep going back to the restaurant?

08-21-2002, 04:56 PM	#1
RMG Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 542	Why per-sign sponsors don't allow 3rd party tracking/stats access? Without stating the obvious, why do these types of programs not allow 3rd party stats/tracking? With nothing to hide, whats the problem?

08-21-2002, 04:57 PM	#2
Fletch XXX GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!! Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: that 504 Posts: 60,840	Oooooh. __________________ Want an Android App for your tube, membership, or free site? Need banners or promo material? Hit us up (ICQ Fletch: 148841377) or email me fletchxxx at gmail.com - recent work - About me

08-22-2002, 04:17 AM	#12
nocostporn Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Maryland Posts: 5,228	I'm sure something could be done to allow people to view their 3rd party stats as well as the sponsors I've been looking at some stat tracking packages that some of the big boys use <no names mentioned> and believe me,there is built in shaving...not saying they use it though __________________ CashTheChecks.com -coming soon- "Exclusive sites for Exclusive Webmasters" ICQ-119966868,add me first don't message

08-22-2002, 04:32 AM	#15
nocostporn Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Maryland Posts: 5,228	well when you pay $35-$50k for stat tracking I think its ok to cheat your webmasters out of a few signups to pay for it when you break it down though(if its a large sponsor with a big webmaster database) shaving 3% isnt really hurting anybody lol __________________ CashTheChecks.com -coming soon- "Exclusive sites for Exclusive Webmasters" ICQ-119966868,add me first don't message

08-22-2002, 04:49 AM	#17
gothweb Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Back in the USSA Posts: 8,849	AAARGH. __________________ Photos by Ian X.: Distinctive photos of goth babes. Blood Money:Your traffic, my sites, our money. MojoHost: Still the best.

08-21-2002, 04:58 PM	#3
sexygoat So Fucking Banned Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 357	they shave.

08-21-2002, 04:59 PM	#4
[Labret] Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: Са́нкт-Петербу́рг Posts: 10,945	Do you really think a program can afford to pay you 30 to 40 dollars per signup... even with trials? I am going to start a program that will pay 175 dollars per trial signup. The difference? Newbs will actually believe they get 35 per signup.

08-21-2002, 05:00 PM	#5
RMG Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 542	Going to go grab a beer and maybe a bite to eat...be back later.

08-21-2002, 05:00 PM	#6
FlyingIguana aspiring banker Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: toronto Posts: 10,870	it would most likely slow down accusations of shaving. but even showing 3rd party stats people would still bitch about shaving. i would like to see 3rd party stats for per sign up programs, would put me a lil more at ease. duno, maybe i'm just a paranoid fuck.

08-21-2002, 05:20 PM	#9
Krome Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: London - UK Posts: 2,851	Flynt Digital uses thrid party stats, it is pulled directly from the Jetbill system.

08-22-2002, 04:31 AM	#14
Martin "Assassins" Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: At home Posts: 17,277

08-22-2002, 04:41 AM	#16
ControlThy Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1,909	NEVER trust a sponsor that says that they are NOT shaving. Unless they use third party statistics which they can't shave. (although money buys ALOT). NOTHING is shave proof.

08-22-2002, 04:50 AM	#18
nocostporn Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Maryland Posts: 5,228	the thing is,3rd party processors are more "watched" by the higher ups I believe...So the chances of them shaving are very slim..There is no commitee watching each and every sponsorship program on the other hand... I can honestly say that I've signed up with a program under my referral code and the signup didnt show up on a few occasions... but I'm going to shutup now because people will say I'm shaving in 5 months I'm sure __________________ CashTheChecks.com -coming soon- "Exclusive sites for Exclusive Webmasters" ICQ-119966868,add me first don't message

08-22-2002, 06:16 AM	#20
TheDoc Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Currently Incognito Posts: 13,827	Reason we don't give access to all the stats is it would be crazy. We would have to ad in some of the most crazy tracking ever known to man. I-bill, epoch, ccbill ect all want shit tracked (for internal use) differently. When a programer writes a script to pull stats like most per signup programs we have to code each one differently to pull the stats down. This would be damn near impossible to do. Now about shaving. How do we make money? Ok., First off e-mails not all but most programs take the e-mails in the join form and on the site boxes without a 2nd opt in option. They hit submit and it's over with. Exits (2 and 3+) produce a fucking stupid volume of signups. We get paid $35 for an exit sale and we paid you $35 for a sale you sent us. Simple trade off. This kills a % of signups that we don't have to worry about. E-mails sending back to us and others do a huge volume of trade off. Think people can really cancel from those lists? Well I guess they can but they go in the wash list. Sales in the sites. Sex Shops and Casinos, All I can say is fucking people buy the shit out of it. Video tapes for that niche, for us this is a major sale. Big dick members buy big dick videos by the fucking truck load. Even other videos. Penis pill blah stuff, Same deal. Member goes to cancel we resign them back up at 9.95 They cancel that they get a month free and rebill again at 4.95 They quit again and we give them all sites for a buck or two. Cancel e-mail has promos to other sites. Signup e-mail even has fucking promos. Cross sales on most processors now really help. A money program banks on the little webmaster. The 10,000 guys sending 30 hits a day from their piss ass site getting pure SE traffic. Gold for us on those exits. Our own production of traffic which I think most programs do. Our own tgp, se, spam for some people, opt in lists, whatever. Keeping ahead of our webmasters in sales. If webmasters produce 100 sales and I produce 200 sales, I win hands down. I don't have an exact % but something like 2% of all members forget they have the membership for very long periods of time. All in all some programs shave, yes. Some don't. Some have to while others don't need to. Bottom line is what are you making. If you think a money program might be shaving you try a test signup or two. Some programs will ban ya for that so read the terms I talk with most the major guys in the business and I do think some shave while I think many many other's do not shave. I do know just because one or two sites convert real fucking bad it does not mean they shave. Most the time when we do exit trades with other programs we have to find the niches that do good for us. I can use 10 of X money programs site and their teen site sucks. Put another sites teen site in it's place and it does great. Does not mean they shave just the way traffic works. 2 things I would think. Processor based programs stand the least chance of being able to shave. And programs that have been around for ages which probably don't need to shave now if they ever did as they have a solid system in place and know all the tricks. Even new programs it's real simple math once you kinda have a clue what you are doing. In my eyes shaving is not the real issue. I'm more worries that them fucks are going to send me my check Bottom line it's the money that matters. __________________ ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825 It's all disambiguation

08-22-2002, 09:06 AM	#21
SykkBoy Jesus loves bacon Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Sin City, Motherfucker Posts: 19,969	TD, well put.... also, who says you can't shave 3rd party stats? Just set the percenatge to zero or the recur payments to zero... bottomline is, do you trust who you are sending your traffic to? If not, then don't send it....fuck, if you go into a restaurant and get food poisoning, do you keep going back to the restaurant? I'm sure part of the fun we'll have when we go pay per signup will be the fun board postings of "DarkDollars shaved me" and "DarkDollars kicked me from their program for no reason" my favorite posts are the guys sending 30 hits a day claiming they are being shaved....hahahahaha __________________ Support my new movie “The Second Coming”

08-22-2002, 09:26 AM	#23
DarkJedi No Refunds Issued. Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: GFY Posts: 28,300	great post Doc

08-22-2002, 09:37 AM	#25
nocostporn Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Maryland Posts: 5,228	good post TD,I think some people might have just learned a thing or two __________________ CashTheChecks.com -coming soon- "Exclusive sites for Exclusive Webmasters" ICQ-119966868,add me first don't message