SmokeyTheBear

I built a cool tool if any hosts want to partner up 50/50 i supply the scripting you supply the hosting.

Basically its a multimedia hosting service, a quick place for people to upload music , videos , and pictures and have them hosted for free. The script uploads the file and watermarks it with an advertising link and adds embed code for people to place the file on their website.

The example script is barebones
http://smokeycash.com/1up/upload.php

try it out , upload something and post the bbcode link in this thread

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borked

Hye, not sure if this is normal, but you're sig is a bit weird...

there's 'Hey Paris', flashing over 'Hey New Delhi'. Huh?

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For coding work - hit me up on andy // borkedcoder // com
(consider figuring out the email as test #1)

SplitNinja

uploaded a video and nothing happened

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$tandaman

Smokey, are you going to market it?

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mattz

What would be in this for the hosting company?

mattz

also, most of the music and probably most of the videos are pirated, so good job on making something else to share stolen content!

SmokeyTheBear

dude this is the second time you have posted garbage in my threads ..

why dont you explain what the fuck you are talking about ?

"most of what videos" are pirated ?

i dont see any videos , so stop making yourself look stupid. or explain where this "pirated" material is

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hatisblack at yahoo.com

RawAlex

I think this is where he gets the idea much of the material will be without needed paperwork or copyrights... would you also provide a service to the hosting companies to weed out material that shouldn't be posted? This would be even more important with the newer 2257 rules, potentially the image host could become a secondary producer (because the original poster would be unknown, and they would own the domain).

Please, elaborate for the class.

SmokeyTheBear

Thats a silly assumption.. harddrives can contain anything so do i assume if you buy a hard drive your going to be using it to store stolen military info ?
obviously every open upload source must be monitored and abide by dmca

i wouldnt suggest anything different..

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SmokeyTheBear

heh .. thats just the geo fucking up.. it takes your city creates 4 images in various colors then makes them into an animated gif.. if several people hit the server at once it will create the animated gif before it has a chance to create all 4 images

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GrouchyAdmin

Your script looks pretty nice. Frontend to ffmpeg?

That's a really dumb race condition to have, man. use time_t+ip for your temp images, then just do an fpassthru if file exists. Cleanup should be trivial, too. Just use time_t-3600 or whatever.

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SmokeyTheBear

my other tool http://ytmnd.webspacemania.com/flvv/ uses ffmpeg

this tool doesn't it uses microsoft to stream the files in a wrapper

heh your telling me i know i know problem is im kinda battling 2 servers with lacking features so one does one thing one does the other ( hence the problems )

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RawAlex

Okay, I read you loud and clear: Allow the people to upload anything, and then remove anything that gets complained about using the official methods of DMCA. Otherwise, don't look.

Got it.

Watermarking sort of kills off the "innocent host" provisions, though.

SmokeyTheBear

no no , i think your kinda putting the cart before the horse the example script posted here is featureless. The content is not technically watermarked its just an advertisement pinned on below that can change on the fly.

How the uploaded content is reviewed is up to the person running the script and the laws for the country in which it resides. this is no different than youtube or any other upload service other than the manner in which the content is displayed..

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RawAlex

Exactly. And youtube is starting to look like a terrible investment by Google, because as soon as the pockets got deep, everyone and their cousin showed up with lawyers.

Tacking a commercial onto the bottom of a video is profiting from it, you are playing with words. The reality is that your entire business model would be "profit from other people's content for as long as possible before they get a lawyer or send in the correct DMCA paperwork".

I understand it, and I say more power to you if you can make money off of it (and limit your personal liability to being a software designer)

SmokeyTheBear

lol i think your again putting the cart before the horse. I understand where your coming from , im not trying to "dance" around the facts, but i think its rather absurd you would "presume" my entire business model when i havent even spoken 1 iota of it as it doesnt exist yet.

could it be used for violating copyrights , ? yes ? can any hard drive , or hosting service ? yes

so basically what your saying is every HOST or even FREEHOST is "profiting from other peoples content for as long as possible before they get a lawyer or send in the correct dmca peperwork " thats just silly

any host could be used to house copyright material the owner does not have rights to display .. so are you saying all hosting is bad ? or that hosting done in a responsible fashion is ok. ?

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SmokeyTheBear

perhaps you can explain the difference between me hosting files and a host hosting files , or geocities hosting files ?

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SmokeyTheBear

its ok when geocities does it but smokey cant ? i havent read that rule of ethics or rule of law

do you have a hosting company ? do they allow you to upload things that arent verified ? do they profit from you. ? explain the difference

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RawAlex

Smokey, you know the difference - ones of things like control, intent, etc.

Hosting companies that do not in any way control the content of the sites are considered "common carriers" or "innocent hosts". In the same manner that the phone company isn't legally liable for the content of a phone discussion, a hosting company (or bandwidth provider, or ISP) is not liable for the content of what comes down the wire, just that the wire works.

They aren't in the content business, they are in the service business, and thus have very little liablity when it comes to content. That being said, you can always send a DMCA notice to the host as a well as a domain that is using your copyright material without permission, and they are obliged to take action if their client does not.

If you rip a CD and put the MP3 files on your server, you are violating copyright. You host isn't.

Understand so far?

SmokeyTheBear

I understand that you think me hosting a file is somehow different from geocities hosting a file. i dont understand why you would.. seems pretty obvious to me..

as i said EXPLAIN the difference between ME offering the same service geocities does.

do they not offer users to upload videos pictures and music and advertise on the same page ?

I am offering the EXACT same service only they dont have to enter an email from some free email place..

thats the real difference , and you seem to follow the sheep mentality that its ok that the big sites do it but not when i do it smarter lol



you summed it up fairly well in your last statement

------------------
If you rip a CD and put the MP3 files on your server, you are violating copyright. You host isn't.

Understand so far?
------------------

im not ripping anything i'm the host if someone rips something and puts it on my server , your saying its not me its them.. thats what im saying

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RawAlex

Smokey, if you offered EXACTLY the same services as Geocities (webpages) and had a staff like they do to check violations and close down sites, you would likely be in the clear.

However, I looked at your program here, and essentially what you are doing is taking videos, watermarking them, attaching a clickable link, and then hoping people will post them into blogs or onto webpages, giving you tons of free links in return for the bandwidth used.

Geocities doesn't just host images, they host websites. They don't watermark images, they don't play with the content. You are intending to reformat and represent the content. Even with autoamted tools (ie, you don't manually do the work yourself) you are violating copyright because you are redistributing without a license.

Not at all. Please note the very large lawsuits against Youtube. Please note Falcon Foto's recent settlement regarding copyright violations. Just because you came up with a techie nice way to do the deed doesn't make you less guilty of violating the copyright.

I long since figured out you are very smart, but with this one, you are dancing on the head of a pin. After all, where does the content come from that you will be allowing other people to use?

RawAlex

Oh yeah, and to repeat, I understand the business model, which is basically to exploit the DMCA rules to the max, allowing anything to get posted and then just responding to copyright complaints only. It's an amusingly arrogant way to do business, but I understand it.

CyberHustler

SmokeyTheBear

ok let me know how many staff i need
exactly , we agree , geocities is much worse than i , as they host tons of shit not just videos pics and music
umm go to a geocities page.. there has always been a watermark on the pages

I dont watermark the images or videos , the advertsising is added in the same fashion as geocities , thru javascript
no reformattig takes places
i think you mean misrepresent , and im not.

license is granted to me by the uploader upon clicking the button
i note them.. when they close i will too
different scenario as im not charging a fee to access the site.. but i dont know the particulars so its kind of hard to say much other than a settlement means they werent charged ith doing anything wrong many reasons for a settlement , not the least is the cost of a legal battle.
violating the copyright would be knowingly displaying material i know the uploader does not have rights to display .. i dont know that nor would i until someone pointed it out..

( dont get me wrong im not naysaying your point im just playing devil's advocate here )

you havent even heard how i plan on curbing pirates.. its kinda early for you to be naysaying it
i have been on your side for a long time , trying to be vocal , nobody cares, no lawsuits to speak of , those that are settled for peanuts to profit..

from the users, who's to say it has to be used in a negative fashion..

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RawAlex

Smokey, your entire defence boils down to "but officer, the car in front of my was going faster".

Good luck with your project - I am justing hoping that by discussing it further, hosts can see that they may find themselves with more issues than income.

SmokeyTheBear

thats not my defense , you stated my defense above.. you said it was fine as long as i had as many employees as youtube. i agree with you.. i have twice as many as youtube started with

every host , hosts websites thats their job.. their job is not to police content they provide a service, i'm providing a similar service. i would abide by the same rules any host does..

I have never seen one single case of a host being held liable for what its users upload unless they ignore warnings to bring it down. i would act in a similar fashion..

What your argument boils down to is " as long as you have X amount of employees " its ok... well i do

p.s. you forgot to answer the questions above.. most importantly why can "insert host here" host files but i cant ?

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hatisblack at yahoo.com

RawAlex

No, you misunderstood what I said.

Geocities (and other free hosts) have large staffs to patrol sites, handle complaints, etc. They haven't been on the end of too many legal battles because they are very responsive about copyright complaints.

That being said, Geocities does not encourage people to hotlink images or videos and attach advertisements to this content, which is entirely a different game. In fact, Geocities is pretty good about hotlink protection. They certainly do not take the images or content posted on their site and logo it and offer it up to other sites.

To answer your question, "why can "insert host here" host files but i cant ?" The answer is you can host anything you want. But the idea isn't to be a host (not even like image revenue) but rather to "push" the content out in a manner similar to a YouTube video, but with advertisements attached (or commercial links)/

Have you considered for a minute why youtube has been very careful to avoid put advertisments into their coding that is used by blogs and websites? That would clearly be a point where they stop being a host and start being a content distributor, and that would pretty much knock off all their "innocent host" protection.

Don't confuse your idea with that of being a simple "host", because it just doesn't appear to be the case.

RawAlex

(oh yeah, do you want my epass account so you can pay me for having bumped your thread this often?)

SmokeyTheBear

and your somehow implying i dont and wouldnt ? infact reality is i have 100 times more employees per content than they do ..

why ?
i am not hotlinking anything , they attach ads onto EVERYTHING you put on your site, text pics music videos etc.

my site has better hotlink protection
try hotlinking an image , thats exactly what they do. try putting an image on your page thats EXACTLY what they do.. i am offering the EXACT same service except you dont have to register..



duh thats exactly what a host does
they offer a click going to their site with ads, i could do the same thing but is instead offered an easier more advnaced service..
youtube isnt a content distributer ?



you say tomato i say tomato.. i could put "free host " o n the site and fit your criteria.. doesnt make it any different.

Your just going into this with preconceived opinion on what my plans are instead of focusing on the tool itself its a "featureless" script..

how do you think youtube and geoshities started ? with a billion employees ?

they started small , i have 100 times the employees per videos than youtube does and geocities combined does. so i have the ability to be better enforced.. i have tested geocities yotube and google videos , they all ignore complaints, i wouldnt so infact your proving your argument backwards.

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RawAlex

Sorry, but again you are missing the point, heading down a dead end of logic.

It doesn't matter if you have a million employees per video. You cannot compare what you are suggesting to youtube or geocities, because your model is entirely different.

Where do you make your money? Your money is made when people take the embedding code and put the video on another site, not because they will be showing the video (unimportant small amount of bandwidth) but rather because there will be an advertisement embedded along with it.

So if you think that your "featureless script" is just a free hosting tool, well, more power to you. I am sure that you would take a skim of the traffic in return for your programming skills, right?

Enjoy. You made your mind up a long time ago, and I am sure you will have no problems with this project, because AFF and Adbrite will always be there as sponsors for this sort of thing.

SmokeyTheBear

by entirely different i guess you mean the same thing ?

what makes it different
same way youtube does
the ad would be just like youtube and point back at my site not advertise products , the products would be advertised on the site just like youtube..

i dont think anything , thats exactly what it is, i think if you showed the page to 10 people and said " what is this thing that says free hosting tool that freehosts things", they would likely say " umm are you serious ? it says what it is and is quite obvious ,stop asking stupid questions "
no we would advertise the exact same way as youtube does.. or geocities does.. on my site

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RawAlex

Smokey, never mind. You are just playing dumb. Enjoy. Keep your lawyer on speed dial.

SmokeyTheBear

i told you that many posts ago. im playing the devils advocate here trust me i agree with you for the most part. fact is though the rest of the industry seems to be ignoring our ethics and are working with different ethics.

to be honest my idea to start with this whole idea has nothing to do with any of your concerns. i want to start a "do-it-yourself" learning type website that has nothing to do with adult or any exisiting content, you make a do-it-yourself video , users get to share the preview or buy the tutorail for a nominal fee like $1 , but for arguments sake i felt i should play devils advocate and show you how your preconcieved notions of what hosting is is silly and based on nothing more than a brand name.. first you say its about policing the content then when i explain i have 100 times the manpower to enforce the copyrights you change your argument. fact is the old rules of "ethics" have moved over for the new era of "dmca" , you want shit removed its an opt-out process just like google just like youtube just like geocities.

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RawAlex

Smokey, I think that you are really missing is that there are a few areas of the business that are legally defined, at least to some extent. Common Carriers, and the exemption granted to companies in that position is pretty strong in law.

It only works if those companies aren't doing anything other than offering disk space. Once you cross the line into content manipulation, repackaging, redistribution... there are 101 ways to name it, the companies stop being hosts and start being content providers. The rules change.

Remember the theory: You can call a tail a leg, but your dog still can't walk on it. You can call anything you want "hosting", but it is the methods used that would define what the business truly is.

Most of the lawsuits that companies like youtube face will help to redefine the legal ground that they stand on. I think all copyright holders agree that the DMCA notification / content removal process is good in theory, but in reality it creates a huge hole that you can drive an entire business model through. The results of these legal actions may turn those business models into junk pretty quickly.

No, the argument doesn't change - if you were a host (in the common carrier sense) you would need a large staff to keep up with potential DMCA complaints, as this would really open a can of worms. But once you cross the line to content manipulation, adding links and offering a redistribution method for the content with commercial intent, you are no longer a host so the DMCA issue becomes secondary. The issue is no longer "oops" but one of income made on leasing out ( or providing for profit) the content that you didn't have the rights to for that purpose. That is the difference between giving a copy of a CD to your friend or opening a table at the flea market and selling copies for $2 each.

Good luck with it. Don't let the potentials of technology run you down a dark road.

SmokeyTheBear

i fully understand that , what you fail to understand is thats exactly what im doing , nothing different than YOUTUBE , the only difference is in your own slanted perception
youtube google images google videos geocities ALL do exactly what you just described to the T. the only difference is I DONT ALTER THE CONTENT IN ANY WAY

exact;y , you can call it something else if you want to but legally its a hosting service , no different than youtube , the only difference is in your perception
exactly , you would rather let big companies with clout like youtube make billions while you "watch and see".. the PIONEERS in the industry are using my method.. meanwhile peope like you and i are left in the dust with our "ethics" in our hand.
i totally agree with you there, but this is the new frontier.. follow the old rules and get left in the dust.. follow the big boys and make big $

your contradicting yourself .. and making silly statements. NOWHERE is there any egislation that saus one must have a "large staff" . i think your having trouble with math. I HAVE WAY MORE EMPLOYEES PER CONTENT THUS I CAN BE MORE EFFECTVE
fuck dude , i appreciate a good convo but your being silly , how many times do i have to explain to you THERE IS NO MANIPULATION DONE. THE FILE IS LEFT EXACTLY how its uploaded..

adding linis exactly what youtube does and every host on the planet



fuck are you dense or something seriously. I DO HAVE THE RIGHTS , THEY ARE SIGNED OVER TO ME UPON CLICKING THE UPLOAD BUTTON
nobody is selling anything , your completely out of the loop . i think its because your stuck on the concept of illegal copyright material and obviously did NOT read this thread properly..



you mean the dark road that maks you billions like all the current industry leaders ? hahah yup ill try not to do that ..

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SmokeyTheBear

basically in a nutshell , i am offering the same service as youtube but without registering .

sure you can bitch and whine and call it flying pigs , but thats what it is. love it or leave it..

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Budis

Omg, let Smokey do his job, he's the only one who will be resposible for that and not you, or do you plan to sue him?

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RawAlex

As I said before Smokey, good luck with it. I looked at your product AS YOU PRESENTED, and I saw something that wasn't hosting (particularly if you offer the embedding code to allow people to put the videos (with embedded advertising) onto other sites.

I wish you luck, but I would keep a very, very close eye on the legal issues facing youtube and others right now.

SmokeyTheBear

You just dont understand how it works, the ad is not on the video. the video is displayed in the same fashion as its uploaded , it is not altered in any way, allowing users to embed the video for wich i have been granted a license to redisplay
is my choice and does not conflicct with any known copyright laws

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Pete-KT

Smokey hit me up please