baddog

avolongold

besides asking the hosting company, is there a way you can check for yourself?

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baddog

LaserSpec

This only really applies to shared hosting, and it really isn't that big of a deal. While you may be promoting your own company baddog, it really isn't helping the conception of needing dedicated IP's.

If you are really concerned about security you wouldn't be hosting on a virtual plan to begin with.

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baddog

It has little to do with security, and you would be surprised at how many dedicated servers are using shared IP's.

And if you are into SEO, it is a very big deal.

Contra

Baddog - I don't see an icq number for you so I'll post here. If you have a minute could you use your domaintools account to do a reverse ip lookup for. You've made me curious to see who I'm sharing an ip with. I don’t want to pay for a membership for one check up.

Of course you don’t know me, but thanks if you can do it. My icq- 408335371

Thanks

baddog

authorization requested

dissipate

Its actually not that huge of a deal with SEO.

baddog

Oh really? I guess you know more than Bruce Clay.

dissipate

It's a moot point, even if I'm given a dedicated IP, theres nothing to say that the last client that it was assigned too didn't tarnish it. I have had equal success with both shared and dedicated IP's.

dissipate

You don't need a domaintools account.

http://www.seologs.com/ip-domains.html

LiveDose

Yes, we have many different ip's.

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baddog

guess the question is, which is more accurtate

dissipate

The one I posted is fairly accurate, doesn't update very day though.

crockett

Yes I have a crap load of dedicated ips across 5 or 6 class c's on 3 servers

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tenderobject

im paing for my domain block.. but i dont think my host would full me for a bit of cheap ips.. i love my host!! theyre the best imho

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Contra

Thanks for the link

JD

virtual hosting is lame

Corona

It's hard to beat getting 64 IPs at MojoHost.com

Superterrorizer

I _would_ be surprised if you said any number other than zero since it's im-fucking-possible to have a dedicated server on a "shared IP".

Your entire initial post is complete bullshit because it's simply not possible for a 3rd party tool to accurately know what domains are hosted on an IP. They can collect a list of domains that they have SEEN on that IP, but it would be not be practical to keep updating that list. To my knowledge here is no crystal ball that will ACCURATELY and RELIABLY tell you what domains are on an IP. If I am wrong may some pedantic network engineer strike me down.


Let this be another fucking hosting lesson for this board, half the hosting reps have no fucking clue what they are talking about, how TCP/IP works, how HTTP works, how a server works, etc. Here is a tip. You want to know how many domains are on "your" ip? ASK YOUR FUCKING HOST. They are the only ones who can give you an accurate number. If your host says "The IP is yours and yours alone" and you go to some so called reverse ip lookup page and it says there are 2000 domains on the ip, the IP was probably used before. Think your host is lying? Start doing dns lookups on all those domains in that list and see where they really go. You all have the tools, Windows comes with a ping command, tracert command, a pathping command, an nslookup command, all of which will show you the ip of a domain.



And you run/represent a hosting company, right? WTF dude.

Pete-KT

My host has a seperate ip for each and every domain i have hosted with them.

HEAT

yes my host provider gaves me 15 ips(class b) per server.
and I host 3 servers with them. so total 45 dedicated IPs.

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254-282-542

LaserSpec

15 IP's is not a class b, LOL!!!

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HEAT

69.93.X.X

isn't this class b network address?

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254-282-542

Superterrorizer

Well since the internet has been classless for 10 - 15 years I don't know why all these SEO guys keep talking about Class Cs. I think what he meant was that each of his ips is from a different class B, but I don't know any hosts here who have ips on 45 different /16's, err, I mean, class b's so maybe that's not what he meant.

Superterrorizer

Yes, but that would mean you would need
69.93
69.94
69.95
69.96
etc
etc

To have ips on different "class b's". What you are referring to are "class c's" or different /24s. I'm sure baddog can explain it all better than I can, I'll even help him a little.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classle...Domain_Routing

HEAT

thanks for the info

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254-282-542

ServerGenius

what he said

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SplitNinja

I think he said something about not having a clue about RFC 1878, and being not happy with his life using ms ping, tracert and not having sex for months.

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ServerGenius

oh really well let me put it this way then......you can't have dedicated servers
on shared ips. Furthermore having multiple domains pointed to the same ip
(even if they're not yours) doesn't matter at all.

Or do you guys perhaps sell dedicated servers on shared ips.....if so please
explain I'd love to learn about this technology.

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ServerGenius

And don't comeback with DHCP as that's not what was meant here

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directfiesta

.. it is at the testing stage, I think ....

__________________
I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

LaserSpec

you can always tell who is a reseller, or who survives by getting clients because theyre "cool"

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webair

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Quickdraw

Had a song stuck in my head for some reason, so I changed the words a little ;)

This is a story about a man named Jed.
Bought separate IP's to try and keep his family fed.
Then one day he was checking on his plan,
only to find his domains had received a ban.

Next thing you know all the SE traffic was gone,
because the rest of the IP's on that block acted very wrong,
they belonged to one guy that treated Google like his bitch.
Google got mad and banned the block without a flinch.

A server move had no effect.
It's been years and the domains are still wrecked.

The moral of the story is not just about
having separate IP's to gain some clout.
If you have lotsa bad eggs in your neighborhood,
you can bet, it will do you no good.

end..

Of course this was an extreme situation as I shared this IP block with one other guy on a virtual host that is long gone. I believe his sites were like the redirecting/virus .edu domains that dominate Google for porn searches today.

Hopefully hosts take a few more precautions to keep stuff like this from happening, like a limit per user, per block if it's a shared block or something. I don't think it happens that often, but it certainly does happen.

ServerGenius

These are NOT shared ips b.t.w.

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GrouchyAdmin

That's a goddamned lie! All of my webair boxes have shared IPs.. they're broadcast on the internet!!!

Well, except for my 10/8 and 192.168 subs...

Oh, and I'll have a Class B to go with my apple CIDR pls.

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ServerGenius

Below a brief explanation about things you should know
about ip address space on the internet. There's too much
to go into detailled into every point I mention below
but if something is not clear ask and I'll try to explain.

A few things you all should know about ip addres spaces.

IP addresses are being issued by registries kinda similar as
domains are. Each continent has it's own ip registry so it's
a few registries that control all the ip space NOT a single
one.

The more famous registries are ARIN (US falls under this one.),
SARIN (Asia), RIPE (Europe).

Poviders have to be a member of the registry and meet a bunch
or requirements in order to become a member and to get ips
directly assigned to them.

Providers have to provide info on the usage of the ip-space that's
assigned to them. This info is publicly available in the registry's
their whois database.

Officially providers are obligated to keep the whois db accurate which
means that every change to their ip space that was assigned to them should
be kept up2date with changes. In reality often this is not the case. Especially
not with providers who have lots of small clients which rotate quite frequintly.
They keep their own administration to keep track of the ips they've assigned
and if asked by the registry they'll use that to provide accounting info on
their ip space.

Lot's of providers are too small to be themselfes a registry member so this
means they don't have their OWN ip space but instead use the ip space of
the company/provider/carrier they have their servers with. Obviously these
companies cannot update the registry database as they don't have direct
access to it.

Each registry has their own requirements for their members. I don't know
too much about arin, sarin or others as I'm in europe so I mostly deal
with RIPE (http://www.ripe.net/). If I'm correct the minimum ip address
space that the RIPE assigns is a /19 which is 32 c-classes of ip addresses.
1 C-class contains 255 usable ip addresses 1.1.1.x is a class C netblock.
so a /19 would be 1.1.1.x till 1.1.32.x ip addresses. To get a /19 assigned
you have to meet requirements on usuage and have a certain growth rate to
fill the assigned ip space. If you do not qualify you have to request the
ip space from the party you do business with which in most cases is another
provider, carrier or non carrier neutral datacenter.

Ok Since ip addresses are being rotated all the time changes are that the
ip addresses you get assigned have been used before. If a previous user has
abused those ips for example by using them to spam they may have been reported
to organisations like spamhaus, spamcop, etc, etc. This may result in all kinds
of problems for the new user as his ip range might be blocked for many users.
This could vary from not being able to email certain people, or users totally
not being able to access your sites.

These blacklists aren't checked regularly and being cleaned. Usually once you're
added you won't get removed or considered for removal till you contact them and
request it together with providing them some info to proof that the blocked ips
aren't being used for what they were blacklisted for.

It's practically impossible for providers to keep up with this as usually they
won't get notified if ip-space from their netblock is being added. The fact
that a provider has ip-space that is on these blacklists doesn't mean a provider
is bad or malicious itself. The older a provider is the more likely his ip space
will show up on blacklists. So to judge a provider because some of his ip-space
is on some blacklist is useless so there's no point doing so.

If a provider is willingly out to do bad and condones malicious activity take
my word for it, he will get his ip-space taken from him by the registry. You
can get away with a lame excuse 1 or 2 times but you won't if it happens too often.
This is why know spam providers have servers/ip-space in asia where there's less
strict regulations towards abuse. Registries hold the power to revoke ip addresses
and to stop them being routed over the internet.

If you want to make sure you are clean there's a few things you can and should
do yourself.

1: Don't expect others as your provider to check/unlist the ip space that was
assigned to you.

2: Google for the organisations that keep blacklists. Visit those sites and query
their db with your ip-space. If you find your ip-space is blacklisted. contact
the abuse department of the organisation inform them you recently got those ips
assigned to you and request removal of the blacklist.

They'll probably ask you for some additional info to proof you are indeed someone
else and are not the same person who used the ip-space that caused the netblock
to be blacklisted. Y

You can ask your provider to assist you in case necesary. Providers have no reason
why they shouldn't help you, it's also in their interest to get their ip-space
cleared from blacklists.

3: Make sure that your dns is setup CORRECTLY WITHOUT ERRORS for your sites. ip-space
also gets blacklisted for inproper configuration of DNS zones or mailserver config.
They're NOT only added because of abuse.

So before you start your crusade to get your ips cleared make sure everything is
setup properly and accurate before you contact them. This will make things a lot
easier if they see you that the ips you request to be removed have been properly
setup. You can check your dns config on various sites online that will report
any errors it finds by just submitting a domainname or ip address. A very common
mistake is that ips are not reversed mapped back to the domain. Your domain/ip
has to be lookupable in both directions not just one.

4: Be polite and stay polite when contacting organisations that keep blacklists.
Remember they're sceptical by default and get requested 10000's of times to get
ips removed by people who want to do bad....and can't provide the info they request
in order to get the ips removed. They make you jump through many hoops and often it
feels like you're running in a circle but if you don't give up and stay polite you
WILL get them eventually off and your efforts will certainly be worth it.

5: Read up on the rules of the registry that issued your ip-space. It's good to know
the rules and why those rules are there for in the first place.

6: IP addresses are free or charge...meaning a provider doesn't pay a fee per ip.
They pay for being a registry member. So any provider that will SELL you ips you
should be wary off. You might get charged an administration fee but you shouldn't
pay per ip address. Also know that you can't just buy unlimited ips without being
able to account for them and provide information on how they're being used. Check
the rules for this as you can't just say I have 255 sites and each has their own
ip as that's not allowed to do with almost none of the existing registries.

Anyone who makes you believe different isn't aware of the facts and you should not
be suprised if at some point your ips will be revoked.

I hope this helps to clear some of the myths around ip addresses.

Oh yeah one last thing.....though ips are being issued by registries
that doesn't mean that if a netblock is issued to a US company in the US
that ip space physically is being used in the US. IP addresses are portable
and can be deployed in another region where they were issued. To determine
where the IP space is being deployed you best do a traceroute and look at
the output to see where it goes.

If you believe any of the above is incorrect let me know. I've written
all this based on my experience I haven't verified everything I said before
I wrote it down in this thread.

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GrouchyAdmin

Hans, you're wasting a hell of a lot of time on a guy who resells two CPanel boxes with a bajillion tunneled IPs that he doesn't know how to admin.

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ServerGenius

oh and since ipv4 ip addresses are slowly but surely running out be sure
that registries won't be getting easier with their policies but rather stricter
ipv6 may be implemented and working in most OS'es the registries haven't
decided on implementation of ipv6 yet and aren't ready to do so either.
It probably won't take too much longer before they do I wouldn't bet on it
that it will be this year or the next. it won't be implemented till EVERYTHING
is compatible with it coz if they don't parts of the internet will just stop
working as this system is where entire internet is based and working on.

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ServerGenius

That's what a nice guy I am Threads about ip addresses pop up
quite regularly and based on all the inaccuracies that get posted in them I
thought let's reply to it once so I won't have to bother with correcting people
again. Instead I can refer to this thread now......

Every now and then I feel like contributing something usefull to GFY next to
all the bullshit I normally contribute.

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jimb

If your getting dedicated servers with shared IP's, then someone is lying to you and giving you a virtual account for dedicated server prices.

Jim

psili

Can someone give me 256 dedicated IPs, never been used, with 4.3 terabytes storage, a 99.999% OC1 uptime and 123.2 virtual hosts pointed to the same domain for $100 / month?

k.
thnx.

ICQ = i don't know shit about hosting.

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GrouchyAdmin

Yeah. Still, baddog saying something stupid is like the sun and the moon. There's always something up in the sky. He's not a bad guy, but he should at least learn what the fuck he's talking about or not try to pretend that he does.

I also retract my innacurate statement: it's DirectAdmin, which is owned by the CPanel guys.

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AlexShark

mmm.... mmm.... mmm.... me think better to get tons of little virtual plans

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psili

On a side note -- and this is a serious question:

How does one sort through the "used car salesman" from the "legit" business reps on this board?

For me, I have a buddy giving me free hosting on one of his dev servers at his hosting company. Then again, I have no traffic, so my uptime, drive space and bandwidth are a moot point.

However, if I did / want to build a network of sites with huge bandwidth needs, plus all that SEO shit involved, what would a proper "salesman" have to sell me on for such needs?


Edit:

Also, what if I wanted a unix environment with support for mod_proxy, php, java / tomcat, ruby / rails and what ever else I wanted to play with -- how does that factor in for a host and pricing and whatnot?

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ServerGenius

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for someone to hit you up on ICQ

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Steve Awesome

Dedicated IP is the way to go.

As far as sorting through the people on here, that's not an easy thing to do. The only badge system we seem to have is the total number of posts.

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GrouchyAdmin

With what you're asking for, you're not going to find without your own dedicated server, for the reason alone that it takes more care and feeding (and is not included with CPanel). Many of the hosts are those fly-by-nights with a couple machines, and a license for CPanel. Hell, there's more 15-20 year olds out there with a dedicated server for WarCraft who think they can sell space on it to pay for it - then there are legitimate hosts.

Depending on your needs, they might set it up for you, but if they need to admin your machines, you'd probably be looking at least at $85-100/mo more per system. mod_proxy is pretty standard, as is PHP. Tomcat, less so. RoR? Not going to happen with a stock CPanel/DirectAdmin box.

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ServerGenius

I'd say a legit rep or salesman will get you in touch with a senior tech BEFORE
he comes with an offer to you. Most salesmen aren't techs that doesn't mean
they're by default bad people or scammers.

Most important rule is you get what you pay for.

I never take much credit in people praising their provider coz what may
be a good provider for them doesn't have to be a good provider for you.

I'd never go with a new kid on the block kinda provider.....if a provider has
been around for a few years doesn't guarantee you won't have problems but
at least the fact they've been around counts for some reliability even if it's
just the fact they'll probably still be around for another while.

You could check the ip-registry database to see how many ips they have
assigned and if they're a registry member or just using someone else his ip-space. This doesn't tell you anything about the tech knowledge or quality
it does tell you something about the size of a provider.

Check how easy you can reach them for support outside office hours.

ask some network info from your provider, are they multihomed, do they own
control their own routers/network. How's they're peering, if they use BGP
routing ask their AS numbers and check those with the registry to see they're
BGP routing policies.

Do some test transfers at different times and from different locations.

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