Porn Morality....

[SykkBoy]

It's long been argued that this industry has no morals. It's also been said that we don't need them.

Aren't morals merely a set of rules that we give ourselves to sleep better at night? Where do you stand? Is it possible to have morals and be in porn?

Do some people confuse morals with ethics?

[D]

Porn is like any other business.

Once you get over that whole "sex is bad" stigma.

[jact]

I'd like to think that I have both morals and ethics, but sadly I'm an exception instead of a rule. It seems a lot of the industry would pimp out their own mother's for a dime.

[Karupted Charles]

I have stood on this soap box to many times with so few that listen. There should and needs to be morals in porn. There is no reason that just because its adult that it should cater to the lowest common denominator. Adult content is what we make it and its time we make it a clean place for users and real business men and women.

Read my article in Xbiz a few months back if you want to know more.

[zandre]

Originally Posted by SykkBoy2

Aren't morals merely a set of rules that we give ourselves to sleep better at night?
Is it possible to have morals and be in porn?

I am quite not sure how to answer the first question but... NO.
as for the second one... I believe NO is my answer

[Phoenix]

i sleep on my king sized bed i just bought

it is really comfy

[SykkBoy]

Originally Posted by Put My Willy Wonka In Your Chocolate Factory

I have stood on this soap box to many times with so few that listen. There should and needs to be morals in porn. There is no reason that just because its adult that it should cater to the lowest common denominator. Adult content is what we make it and its time we make it a clean place for users and real business men and women.

Read my article in Xbiz a few months back if you want to know more.

So, where is your line in the sand on morality?

Remember, as a whole, our industry is thought of by those outside of it as extremely immoral.

I've found as my daughters get older, I slide my line the sand around and get a little more conservative.

Is it possible to have sliding morals? How about morals that change after certain experiences or life events?

[Karupted Charles]

Originally Posted by SykkBoy2

So, where is your line in the sand on morality?

Remember, as a whole, our industry is thought of by those outside of it as extremely immoral.

I've found as my daughters get older, I slide my line the sand around and get a little more conservative.

Is it possible to have sliding morals? How about morals that change after certain experiences or life events?

Its nice to be posed with intelligent questions instead of fuck your in porn realize it and for that I thank you.

Yes as a whole our industry is thought of as immoral and there is 2 reasons for this. For one many are! Second is because of others opinions and their personal morals.

Your comments on your daughter are very understandable. Just like our founding fathers allowed for changes in the constitution based on not knowing were time would lead society so our morals change as time, technology and life experiences affect it.

Not only is it possible to have sliding morals I think it is almost required. Anytime you set something in stone and make it an absolute you are limiting your ability to move with time.

The key is to remember a few key things.

Don't publish things you don't feel right publishing or that you could not show to your family (kids excluded).

Don't do things to customers you would not want done to yourself.

I don't think this is a huge weight to bear but just these small things could make a huge difference in the health and prosperity of our industry.

[kristin]

Originally Posted by Put My Willy Wonka In Your Chocolate Factory

I have stood on this soap box to many times with so few that listen. There should and needs to be morals in porn. There is no reason that just because its adult that it should cater to the lowest common denominator. Adult content is what we make it and its time we make it a clean place for users and real business men and women.

Read my article in Xbiz a few months back if you want to know more.

I have always preached about morals and ethics in the is business, more business ethics though.

I agree with you Charlie, there needs to be some moral standards. There are many in the business who take this just as porn and not as a real business, it's sad to see because as an industry we have some of the more advanced technologies, ideas, and services.

[SykkBoy]

Originally Posted by Put My Willy Wonka In Your Chocolate Factory

Its nice to be posed with intelligent questions instead of fuck your in porn realize it and for that I thank you.

Yes as a whole our industry is thought of as immoral and there is 2 reasons for this. For one many are! Second is because of others opinions and their personal morals.

Your comments on your daughter are very understandable. Just like our founding fathers allowed for changes in the constitution based on not knowing were time would lead society so our morals change as time, technology and life experiences affect it.

Not only is it possible to have sliding morals I think it is almost required. Anytime you set something in stone and make it an absolute you are limiting your ability to move with time.

The key is to remember a few key things.

Don't publish things you don't feel right publishing or that you could not show to your family (kids excluded).

Don't do things to customers you would not want done to yourself.

I don't think this is a huge weight to bear but just these small things could make a huge difference in the health and prosperity of our industry.

Well, I think we can still act professional in a vice industry.

While I agree with your point on publishing (to a point), the problem with that again, is we all have this different line in the moral sand. I'm more of a mindset of what would I be comfortable defending in a court of law if I had to (especially since half of my family is made of up of very religious Mormons).

Do you think that our industry exists because we offer a vice or a taboo? There will always be envelope pushers and there will always be those that play it safe. How much personal morality is based upon who much we have to spend on a legal defense fund.

The biggest problems with establishing some type of industry moral boundary is we can often get ourselves boxed into a corner or society's morals change or something else effects the industry.

I'm alwasy fascinated by the discussion of moral, ethics and boundaries in this industry. After having been in it nearly 10 years, I find that not as much has changed as people think.

[Peaches]

I laugh when someone who is doing something I personally find unethical (and keep my mouth shut about it because it's my PERSONAL opinion) acts all high and mighty about something someone else has done that they consider unethical, but don't have the sense to keep their mouth shut about it ;)

(and no, no one with that description has posted in this thread - yet, hehehe)

[LiveDose]

Let's compare morals. No one on here is killing or blowing shit up...


*edit (not directed at troops on either side but at the people at the top)

[mikeyddddd]

Originally Posted by SykkBoy2

It's long been argued that this industry has no morals. It's also been said that we don't need them.

Aren't morals merely a set of rules that we give ourselves to sleep better at night? Where do you stand? Is it possible to have morals and be in porn?

Do some people confuse morals with ethics?

Morality is what an individual considers to be right or wrong. All of us in this industry have decided that we have no problem with the morality of porn.

There are some people who have no problem with the morality of the liquor industry but would consider porn to be immoral. Some people want nothing to do with neither the porn nor the liquor industry.

There are differences in individual business practices about what is fair and what is not in every industry. Some have lines that they will not cross while others don't see any lines at all.

If someone lies, cheats or steals in order to obtain higher profits they will do that no matter what industry they are in.

I believe in the Golden Rule, not the one which states that who has the gold sets the rules, but the one that says treat others as you want to be treated. I also believe that whatever you do, it will eventually catch up to you. That may merely be wishful thinking, but it seems to come to pass quite often.

The main problem with those who see no lines is that they are more motivated by instant gratification rather than achieving long term benefits which causes instability in their industry.

[Karupted Charles]

Originally Posted by SykkBoy2

Well, I think we can still act professional in a vice industry.

I'm more of a mindset of what would I be comfortable defending in a court of law if I had to (especially since half of my family is made of up of very religious Mormons).

Do you think that our industry exists because we offer a vice or a taboo?

The biggest problems with establishing some type of industry moral boundary is we can often get ourselves boxed into a corner or society's morals change or something else effects the industry.

I'm glad you think we can act professional my concern comes from all the ones that think because its adult we don't need morals rules or the need to handle things in a professional business environment. Just look at the rush of BS pissing contest threads as of late filled with drama and finger pointing.

I don't think we offer either a taboo or a vice. Since when is 2 consenting adults having sex a bad thing? By no means am i advocating a missionary position for sex only religious view point on sex but you don't see guys on street corners or school zones peddling dirty pictures like its crack.

We as a company offer tasteful product for consenting adults. We cater to lonely people, people looking to re-charge there sex life, and couples. This is a service no different then cell phones companies, real estate agents or travel agents. Its about time we take some of those mainstream ethnics people get so angry at and apply them to business. If we do you will see less posts about overwritten cookies, shaving and this guy pissed me off so I'm going to beet him up at a show.

Kristin you and i see eye to eye on allot thats why I am willing to talk buisness with you vs so many others that approach us. We make decision based on ethics and we have grown just fine. I encourage others to do the same you will see it does not hurt your bottom line as much as you may think.

[SykkBoy]

Some great points in this thread.

A lot of this seems to be more about ethics than morals. So, are the two the same thing in the industry's eyes?

What about types of content that is shot? Is there some that is more moral than others? Is the rough stuff any less moral than the soft, tender stuff if the model doesn't want to be there? What if the one doing the rough stuff wnts to be there and enjoys that type of performing? What if the one doing the soft, tender scenes is there but doesn't really want to be or has other circumstances that put her there? Is one more moral than the other?

[LiveDose]

My opinion is that adults can decide for themselves where their boundries lie. And of course we all have to follow the law. Girls who enter this industry are deciding to go after the money. Plain and simple. Everyone has good and bad circumstances. And everyone makes the choice in how to deal with what cards they are dealt.

I personally won't shoot girls under 21, so that is my boundry. But it is just a personal decision.

[SykkBoy]

Originally Posted by LiveDose

My opinion is that adults can decide for themselves where their boundries lie. And of course we all have to follow the law. Girls who enter this industry are deciding to go after the money. Plain and simple. Everyone has good and bad circumstances. And everyone makes the choice in how to deal with what cards they are dealt.

I personally won't shoot girls under 21, so that is my boundry. But it is just a personal decision.

Yeah, we all have our lines and our reasons.

I was once told "I have the morals I can afford" and it's true...we all have the morals we can afford.

For me, a lot is about what's legal and what's not. What will get me put in jail and what will let me still walk around a free man.

[nikooo]

ummmmm interesting thread..........

[BVF]

I have no real morals...only ethics.

[BVF]

Originally Posted by LiveDose

I personally won't shoot girls under 21, so that is my boundry. But it is just a personal decision.

I used to call someone who said that a dumbass...But after all these years, I can see where you're coming from.

[martinsc]

what is that? this moral thing?

[Huggles]

Originally Posted by SykkBoy2

So, where is your line in the sand on morality?


I've found as my daughters get older, I slide my line the sand around and get a little more conservative.

I think you answered your own question here.

[Karupted Charles]

Originally Posted by martinsc

what is that? this moral thing?

No offense meant but comments like this scare me. To many think its cool or cute to be anti-moral. It happens in an industry that is lead by the kids from "the back of the class" (myself included).

If your not moral how can you be ethical. Is not belief in ethics part of a persons morality? Meaning if you don't care about your models or have a respect for the law then what respect could you have for your business partners or affiliates?

Its for this reason that people like myself and DJ Arik have called for a need to establish some form of white list for good ethically responsible individuals or organization to determine were to send your traffic or business to or not to send to depending on you feel.

[SykkBoy]

Originally Posted by Huggles

I think you answered your own question here.

Yeah, I know where I stand, just curious as to where others stand and I'm always fascinated by the answers.

[Yngwie]

Originally Posted by jact

I'd like to think that I have both morals and ethics, but sadly I'm an exception instead of a rule. It seems a lot of the industry would pimp out their own mother's for a dime.

I'm broke so that should say a lot about my morals.. Sure, there's a lot I can do to make fast and easy $, but it's not worth fucking whatever reputation I may have. Although, it seems to me that a higher %'s of people in this industry will fuck anyone over for $1.

[SykkBoy]

Originally Posted by Yngwie

I'm broke so that should say a lot about my morals.. Sure, there's a lot I can do to make fast and easy $, but it's not worth fucking whatever reputation I may have. Although, it seems to me that a higher %'s of people in this industry will fuck anyone over for $1.

I don't think that having morals means someone has to be poor any more than lacking morals makes you more money.

Again, are we dividing ethics and morals? Referring to them as one in the same or are they different entities?

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by SykkBoy2

Is it possible to have sliding morals?

I've always called them SITUATIONAL ETHICS. And to me that's not really having ethics at all.

[Yngwie]

Originally Posted by SykkBoy2

I don't think that having morals means someone has to be poor any more than lacking morals makes you more money.

Again, are we dividing ethics and morals? Referring to them as one in the same or are they different entities?

I'm just saying that I would not fuck people over for any reason. I won't do anything that would be deemed immoral to myself anyway. Being poor means nothing, you're right about that part. I guess it's a mixture of morals and ethics.
.

[CaptainHowdy]

The porn biz seems to have it's own morals...

[AmeliaG]

A lot of times being a decent person turns out better in the long run, not the mention the huge plus of being able to meet your own eyes in the mirror.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by SykkBoy2

Yeah, we all have our lines and our reasons.

I was once told "I have the morals I can afford" and it's true...we all have the morals we can afford.

For me, a lot is about what's legal and what's not. What will get me put in jail and what will let me still walk around a free man.

cough

[jayeff]

I don't get very energized about the morality or otherwise of porn. For me it falls into one of those areas about which I feel that if people do something willingly and without harming anyone else in the process, it is their own business. I don't like thinking about our customers, because a key difference between porn and erotica, is that porn is about degrading women. But that is really another topic.

I don't think about ethics as such either. Business is just a part of life and involves all the same people as any other aspect of life. For that reason if no other, in the long run industries are drawn to the same standards as society at large. I constantly see people compromising those common standards for short-term gain, but without exception they have been small-minded people of limited vision, soon left behind and forgotten. Good ethics are simply good business.

[Webby]

Originally Posted by jact

I'd like to think that I have both morals and ethics, but sadly I'm an exception instead of a rule. It seems a lot of the industry would pimp out their own mother's for a dime.

Agree jact. The morals/ethics of the online adult industry came from a swamp.

Can't say it is the same for the industry as a whole - more an online thing and prob stemming from the fact that any asshole with a computer who thinks they can get rich quick can play a role. Stuff the same people into a real bricks and mortar scenario and they would not last 10 minutes.

[SykkBoy]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

cough

Speak of the devil
(and the devil appears) ;-)

The age old question and have you noticed...the answers haven't really changed much?

[Peaches]

Originally Posted by SykkBoy2

Speak of the devil
(and the devil appears) ;-)

The age old question and have you noticed...the answers haven't really changed much?

When you mention Nick's name, an angel loses its wings

[Catalyst]

Originally Posted by SykkBoy2

It's long been argued that this industry has no morals. It's also been said that we don't need them.

Aren't morals merely a set of rules that we give ourselves to sleep better at night? Where do you stand? Is it possible to have morals and be in porn?

Do some people confuse morals with ethics?

You know i read this thread yesterday.. and didn't think much of it.

Well I was driving around Vegas and thought. Well if I saw and accident I would call the police right.

Well this happened to me a couple of years ago. I went over to a persons house to work on there computer and they had like 20 pics of CP on it. I was not sure what to do.. If I should call the police.. if I should just walk away and not say anything to anyone..

what would you do? What if that person was a friend?

[Peaches]

Originally Posted by Catalyst

Well this happened to me a couple of years ago. I went over to a persons house to work on there computer and they had like 20 pics of CP on it. I was not sure what to do.. If I should call the police.. if I should just walk away and not say anything to anyone..

what would you do? What if that person was a friend?

You seriously have to ask yourself that question?!!

[Barefootsies]

[cherrylula]

I don't have a daughter so I may think different some day about say, the teen niche. But what I do know is take a look at world morality. Having your own morals and ethics is important, sticking to them for your own self good keeps you sane. However in this world, teen porn for example really isn't the worst thing going on out there. For example, I recently changed to a vegan diet after learning they usually skin cows alive, boil pigs alive. The exploitation of animals by humans is just terrible. I know I sound like some peta freak now, but its just really terrible. Why don't we eat other humans? Why don't we use diseased corpses of our own species for canned pet food? I try not to be a speciesist these days, which is really hard.

But in terms of porn and morality, I've worked enough in the real world industry of it to know its not that bad. And yes, ugliness does go on, but you can't get away from it indefinitely. Keep working on mainstream as a backup which is a good idea as well.

Raise your daughter the way you see fit, and she will love you. And with education and the infusion if intelligence she should know better than to sell her pussy when she comes of age. You can't change the world, but you can breed and contribute something good with patience and understanding.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by SykkBoy2

Speak of the devil
(and the devil appears) ;-)

The age old question and have you noticed...the answers haven't really changed much?

And you haven't touched on the people that use morals as a convenient excuse for failure (yet) ;-)

I love those ones...

"I could have done as well as so and so but I was not willing to do such and such"

They are my favourites.

This business isn't about morality. To the great majority especially in the US we all rank somewhere just above crack dealers outside an elementary school in the moral league.

This business is about legality.

Will I break the law? If no , then fucking do it.


The " moral" people in this business told me years ago :
don't use pop ups
don't use blindlinks
be kind to the surfer
yadda yadda

They aren't here anymore ( though a new bunch seem to have filled their shoes)

Ah well back to making money.This is what I have done in this business for the last , fuck, 11 years.And I choose to make money by any legal means.

Welcome home peaches. Or should I say "Wotcha , darling"

[Wizzo]

I'm sorry this thread has way to much intelligent view points and debate, what do you guys think its 1999 again?? lol Great read!!

[Karupted Charles]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

And you haven't touched on the people that use morals as a convenient excuse for failure (yet) ;-)

I love those ones...

"I could have done as well as so and so but I was not willing to do such and such"

They are my favourites.

This business isn't about morality. To the great majority especially in the US we all rank somewhere just above crack dealers outside an elementary school in the moral league.

This business is about legality.

Will I break the law? If no , then fucking do it.


The " moral" people in this business told me years ago :
don't use pop ups
don't use blindlinks
be kind to the surfer
yadda yadda

They aren't here anymore ( though a new bunch seem to have filled their shoes)

Ah well back to making money.This is what I have done in this business for the last , fuck, 11 years.And I choose to make money by any legal means.

Welcome home peaches. Or should I say "Wotcha , darling"

ATK, Twisty's, ALS Scan, Karups I don't see any of them hurting or going anywhere. You absolutely can make money without using any of those things.

[SykkBoy]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

And you haven't touched on the people that use morals as a convenient excuse for failure (yet) ;-)

I figured quoting you twice in the same thread might cause too much damage ;-)

[SykkBoy]

Originally Posted by Wizzo

I'm sorry this thread has way to much intelligent view points and debate, what do you guys think its 1999 again?? lol Great read!!

I'm sorry....I was kind of hoping for a couple more "fuck yous" and "your mommas" but it is a nice change of pace when people can actually debate a topic like this without falling into the well of piss....so far ;-)

[ADL Colin]

Don't fuck the models? huh? What?

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by ADL Colin

Don't fuck the models? huh? What?

Absolutely right!

Unless they were gagging for it.

[SykkBoy]

Originally Posted by ADL Colin

Don't fuck the models? huh? What?

Immoral pornographer: Let's fuck this model
Unethical pornographer: Out of what?

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by SykkBoy2

Immoral pornographer: Let's fuck this model
Unethical pornographer: Out of what?

Very very good

[ADL Colin]

Originally Posted by SykkBoy2

Immoral pornographer: Let's fuck this model
Unethical pornographer: Out of what?

Fuckin' classic

I think I am just immoral.

[ADL Colin]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

Very very good

Nick,

Are you allegedly immoral or allegedly unethical? I can't remember.