i dont believe either way

i do however look at everything with an open mind.

hard to pull of..yes..so why could a bunch of people who can barely read english get it done....also some of them are still alive...so...maybe they got the names wrong..no biggie.

all im saying is that...things dont add up...and i like to bring this up in threads as hot damn....this will be a 4 pager most likely..lol
i post..theni work and come back and franck baddog warchild and splum will go on calling me names for a few hours.

do i care...not really.

do i believe either way...not really

It's funny how no one can explain where the Pentagon airplane "really went." lol... idiots...

I'm not into conspiracy theories AT ALL, but with 9/11 there is one thing after another that doesnt add up.

For an industry that falls under the 'free speech' catagory yet constantly has to battle the government over censorship, It shocks me that so many of you suddenly believe the governments 'official story' on this topic. What the fuck is wrong with you people?

I love GFY

The only decent discussions I've ever seen on this topic are over at

**oops don't know if that counts as linking to another forum**

go over to randi.org and find their forums, there is a gigantic one all based on discussion of these theories.

Some of us can read though...

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm

this will be a long thread....

Why would anyone waste their time reading that long ass report? I'm just curious to read these idiots' responses about where the airplane really went if it didn't crash into the Pentagon. I am convinced that an airplane DID crash into the Pentagon, so I don't need to read a bunch of bullshit about it...

watch this https://youtube.com/watch?v=xnqWs8pAsRk and then see if you still think that the jews were behind 9/11.

ahh ok reread your post, I thought you were batting for the other team. lol

Alot of the conspiracy nuts want to know where the wings went, and why there wasnt a full plane just laying around after a 400 mph crash. :winkwink:

I like a good conspiracy, but there is nothing much to the 9/11 conspiracy at all...

Another good take on it by Popular Mechanics - "Debunking The 9/11 Myths" :

http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech...42.html?page=6

not another 9/11 thread ..lol

I think many people on both "sides " of this argument fail to understand that there isnt 1 theory , theres thousands of little ones..

As soon as anyone doubts the official story they are grouped together with the " tinfoil hat theories.

On one hand there are OBVIOUS questions left unanswered , on the other hand, there often is unanswered questions in dramatic situations.. so this isnt in itself conclusive of anything BUT this isnt your regular dramatic situation.

Some of the most burning questions myself are..

#1 the pentagon crash

Why havent they released the footage from several cameras with a CLEAR view of the entire crash. Why after several years did they finallly release footage but it was the exact same footage everyone had seen with like 1 extra frame added. I find it awfully suspicious the local gas station has crystal clear footage but the only released footage is from a crappy camera at the pentagon ? so gas station have better security camera's than the pentagon ? wtf

#2 molton steel at wtc 1&2, i havent seen anything to explain molton steel . the current "pancake" theory is that the steel weakened from the fire and collapsed floor to floor, but doesnt explain how the steel was melted with fires that couldnt possibly have melted them.

#3 wtc7 why dont they just say " it was beyond saving so we pulled our guys out NOT we pulled the building down " why the conflicting stories

#4 the guys ( who are still around ) that had their skin burned off on the lower level of wtc, the elevator shafts arent even connected all the way down so i dont see how they got burned

I think another point people often miss ,is that an "inside job" doesnt require the complicity of everyone. All it takes is a few people. lets assume the cia had good information something was going down but didnt know the when and where. if one head guy said " ignore it , it will prove to be a political goldmine" not realising how big it ended up being , then it was an inside job, doesnt mean EVERYONE fucked up , or even that bush fucked up..

some of the big things that to me say this "wasnt" planned or intentionally setup by anyone within the american gov.

#1 the pantagon crash, if it wasnt a plane , where did the people go.. ? If the plane was filled with cia plants , jane does, and john smith's i might be able to believe some sort of switcheroo , but there were quite a few well known people , too many people to keep it secret..

#2 the wtc , the planes undoubtedly cause the building to collapse , despite the obvious glaring discrepency's, it seems again like it would take way too many people to "intentionally" bring them down. as soon as your "theory requires 100's of complacent murderers" to be involved it stops being rational.

#3 too many top ranking officials near or around crash site unless this was so well planned , people felt safe sitting at the opposite side of the pentagon as a missile they knew about was to crash into the other side.. not likely..

Thank you Smokey. Well said.

you look for proof of your theory in a gas station camera instead of the hundreds of eyewitnesses who saw a plane hit? wtf indeed.

http://www.debunking911.com/thermite.htm

http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc7_pulled.html

LOL.. that hit piece was written by the cousin of Michael Chertoff, former Assistant Attorney General and Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security... no conflict of interest there.. :2 cents:

too many facts with proof. how can you believe that? :sarcasm: :1orglaugh

According to the FAA's flight schedules for 9/11, that plane never left the ground..

I suppose you will thus also dismiss the conclusions of the 70 recognized experts consulted for that "hit piece"? How convenient to just reject everything in it as tainted because of some blood relationship of the author. That is how tin foil hat people work their way to their wild theories I guess.

One being a reporter that was there that said it looked like a cruise missile with wings... But.. oh well... lots of witness saw lots of things..

link? proof?

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/...+Attack--2001))

LOL. I'm pretty sure they released a full list of the passengers who died on board right? So if they didn't really die in a plane crash then it should be fairly easy to locate them and talk to them right? Gimme a fucking break...

Was there a list from the Pentagon flight? Don't hear too much about that one, I really don't know.

It really is sad that people still think a 747 crashed ANYWHERE on 9/11.

Considering everything...
The wingspan of a 757 is ~124 feet and a tail height of 44 feet fits nicely.
But that is neither here nor there...

6 years later I'm still talking to someone who can't be bothered with details like -- ho hum -- the actual model of aircraft that hit the building.

Well that is a good question. I'm sure the list is probably kinda hard to find now. Props to anyone who can dig it up...

CREW

Charles Burlingame of Herndon, Virginia, was the plane's captain. He is survived by a wife, a daughter and a grandson. He had more than 20 years of experience flying with American Airlines and was a former U.S. Navy pilot.

David Charlebois, who lived in Washington's Dupont Circle neighborhood, was the first officer on the flight. "He was handsome and happy and very centered," his neighbor Travis White, told The Washington Post. "His life was the kind of life I wanted to have some day."

Michele Heidenberger of Chevy Chase, Maryland, was a flight attendant for 30 years. She left behind a husband, a pilot, and a daughter and son.

Flight attendant Jennifer Lewis, 38, of Culpeper, Virginia, was the wife of flight attendant Kenneth Lewis.

Flight attendant Kenneth Lewis, 49, of Culpeper, Virginia, was the husband of flight attendant Jennifer Lewis.

Renee May, 39, of Baltimore, Maryland, was a flight attendant.





PASSENGERS

Paul Ambrose, 32, of Washington, was a physician who worked with the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the surgeon general to address racial and ethnic disparities in health. A 1995 graduate of Marshall University School of Medicine, Ambrose last year was named the Luther Terry Fellow of the Association of Teachers of Preventative Medicine.

Yeneneh Betru, 35, was from Burbank, California.

M.J. Booth

Bernard Brown, 11, was a student at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. He was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Suzanne Calley, 42, of San Martin, California, was an employee of Cisco Systems Inc.

William Caswell

Sarah Clark, 65, of Columbia, Maryland, was a sixth-grade teacher at Backus Middle School in Washington. She was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Asia Cottom, 11, was a student at Backus Middle School in Washington. Asia was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

James Debeuneure, 58, of Upper Marlboro, Maryland, was a fifth-grade teacher at Ketcham Elementary School in Washington. He was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Rodney Dickens, 11, was a student at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. He was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Eddie Dillard

Charles Droz

Barbara Edwards, 58, of Las Vegas, Nevada, was a teacher at Palo Verde High School in Las Vegas.

Charles S. Falkenberg, 45, of University Park, Maryland, was the director of research at ECOlogic Corp., a software engineering firm. He worked on data systems for NASA and also developed data systems for the study of global and regional environmental issues. Falkenburg was traveling with his wife, Leslie Whittingham, and their two daughters, Zoe, 8, and Dana, 3.

Zoe Falkenberg, 8, of University Park, Maryland, was the daughter of Charles Falkenberg and Leslie Whittingham.

Dana Falkenberg, 3, of University Park, Maryland, was the daughter of Charles Falkenberg and Leslie Whittingham.

Joe Ferguson was the director of the National Geographic Society's geography education outreach program in Washington. He was accompanying a group of students and teachers on an educational trip to the Channel Islands in California. A Mississippi native, he joined the society in 1987. "Joe Feguson's final hours at the Geographic reveal the depth of his commitment to one of the things he really loved," said John Fahey Jr., the society's president. "Joe was here at the office until late Monday evening preparing for this trip. It was his goal to make this trip perfect in every way."

Wilson "Bud" Flagg of Millwood, Virginia, was a retired Navy admiral and retired American Airlines pilot.

Dee Flagg

Richard Gabriel

Ian Gray, 55, of Washington was the president of a health-care consulting firm.

Stanley Hall, 68, was from Rancho Palos Verdes, California.

Bryan Jack, 48, of Alexandria, Virginia, was a senior executive at the Defense Department.

Steven D. "Jake" Jacoby, 43, of Alexandria, Virginia, was the chief operating officer of Metrocall Inc., a wireless data and messaging company.

Ann Judge, 49, of Virginia was the travel office manager for the National Geographic Society. She was accompanying a group of students and teachers on an educational trip to the Channel Islands in California. Society President John Fahey Jr. said one of his fondest memories of Judge is a voice mail she and a colleague once left him while they were rafting the Monkey River in Belize. "This was quintessential Ann -- living life to the fullest and wanting to share it with others," he said.

Chandler Keller, 29, was a Boeing propulsion engineer from El Segundo, California.

Yvonne Kennedy

Norma Khan, 45, from Reston, Virginia was a nonprofit organization manager.

Karen A. Kincaid, 40, was a lawyer with the Washington firm of Wiley Rein & Fielding. She joined the firm in 1993 and was part of the its telecommunications practice. She was married to Peter Batacan.

Norma Langsteuerle

Dong Lee

Dora Menchaca, 45, of Santa Monica, California, was the associate director of clinical research for a biotech firm.

Christopher Newton, 38, of Anaheim, California, was president and chief executive officer of Work-Life Benefits, a consultation and referral service. He was married and had two children. Newton was on his way back to Orange County to retrieve his family's yellow Labrador, who had been left behind until they could settle into their new home in Arlington, Virginia.

Barbara Olson, 45, was a conservative commentator who often appeared on CNN and was married to U.S. Solicitor General Theodore Olson. She twice called her husband as the plane was being hijacked and described some details, including that the attackers were armed with knives. She had planned to take a different flight, but she changed it at the last minute so that she could be with her husband on his birthday. She worked as an investigator for the House Government Reform Committee in the mid-1990s and later worked on the staff of Senate Minority Whip Don Nickles.

Ruben Ornedo, 39, of Los Angeles, California, was a Boeing propulsion engineer.

Robert Penniger, 63, of Poway, California, was an electrical engineer with BAE Systems.

Lisa Raines, 42, was senior vice president for government relations at the Washington office of Genzyme, a biotechnology firm. She was from Great Falls, Virginia, and was married to Stephen Push. She worked with the U.S. Food and Drug Administration on developing a new policy governing cellular therapies, announced in 1997. She also worked on other major health-care legislation.

Todd Reuben, 40, of Potomac, Maryland, was a tax and business lawyer.

John Sammartino

Diane Simmons

George Simmons

Mari-Rae Sopper of Santa Barbara, California, was a women's gymnastics coach at the University of California at Santa Barbara. She had just gotten the post August 31 and was making the trip to California to start work.

Bob Speisman, 47, was from Irvington, New York.

Hilda Taylor was a sixth-grade teacher at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. She was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Leonard Taylor was from Reston, Virginia.

Leslie A. Whittington, 45, was from University Park, Maryland. The professor of public policy at Georgetown University in Washington was traveling with her husband, Charles Falkenberg, 45, and their two daughters, Zoe, 8, and Dana, 3. They were traveling to Los Angeles to catch a connection to Australia. Whittington had been named a visiting fellow at Australian National University in Canberra.

John Yamnicky, 71, was from Waldorf, Maryland.

Vicki Yancey

Shuyin Yang

Yuguag Zheng

Wait a minute. I didn't even know that there was a video of a plane flying into the pentagon. I just watched the video and it is obviously a plane crashing into the pentagon. What the fuck is wrong with people? Close this goddamn thread...

It was doctored. Your untrained eye can't tell a fake from a real.

Hehe.

Post a link.

It really is sad ideologues from either side can't be bothered with factual details.

Ah well.

From the Bureau of Transportation

checkbox "Actual Departure Time"
Origin Airport "Washington, DC - Washington Dulles International"
Airline - American Airlines - AA

Then check the month, day and year..

It's not my schedule.. it's the Government's info...

I have no idea.. and I've said in earlier threads... I'm not saying the gov't was behind it, involved in it, knew about it... yada yada..

I'm just saying that lots of things don't add up..

Leads to an error...

But if it had anything to do with eye witnesses... There were some that said airliner, some said small plane, some said missile, some said military looking jet and on and on...

I guess you can pull out the ones that fit your needs and say 100's of eyewitnesses saw it... makes no matter to me..

For every one that saw on thing, you'll have someone that saw something else..

exactly...there were many who claimed it was not a plane at all...where are those witnesses now...unheard.

anyway...i dont claim one way or another....however i do think everyone deserves a proper investigation.

That'll probably never happen... You have, "experts" on both sides of the fence giving opposing arguements which just lead back to, "Hmmm what actually happened?"

facts mean nothing to the

http://www.rishistar.org/guyana/jonestown.jpg

First off congrats to the loose change guys, thats a home run for them. I dont think personally think it was a inside job, too many people would of had to be involved and this admin isnt that precise lol

It is the "true believers" of one sort or the other who flock to this conspiracy stuff like moths to a flame. The difference is they think the rest of us are drinking the government fed kool-aid.

Just give me one lucid theory on "what actually happened" to all the people who were booked on those flights.