https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications.../2186rank.html

Where are you getting your numbers from?

True, and nothing last forever, everyone eventually dies, etc... I think we all understand that.

What he said was everyday there is someone saying the US will collapse (not one day in the future, but soon). The different shit you hear everyday that the US will collapse because of this or that or this country will pass us up, is rhetoric.One day all things come to an end, is fact. Some people seem to think that "day" is tomorrow.

Data is pulled from the IMF and World Bank

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_GDP_(nominal)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._external_debt

The data you have there is only "public" debt, not external debt which includes public debt.

Perhaps it's that those that call it rhetoric choose to think their talking "tomorrow" because they don't want to admit that their country, business or whatever is going to fail sooner or later..

that is retarded. Find me one idiot that thinks the US, or any country will remain in power or even exist millions of years from now or even hundreds of years from now.

At the same time I highly doubt the people who are saying we are going to fail, be passed up, etc... whatever are talking about some point before the end of time. If they don't state the time, it is implied in all cases that it will be rather sooner than later. Look at the article that this thread was started about, China will pass up the US in 20 years. I think everyone but the thread starter knows that is bullshit. But, one day, 100 years from now or a thousand etc... sure it is possible China may rule the world for all we know.


you are nit picking here and way off base.

Why would anyone ASSume that unless they were trying to make the person not stating the time look like an idiot.. If we all know it's going to happen, then why assume they mean sooner rather than later.

But yeah.. I'm nitpicking because it's fun watching guys like you get all worked up about something that no one can predict one way or the other.

Do anyone want to become a Chinese? or even a Japanese?
Think that only when you are able to see the examples around you.
US is only not at the good hands at all, as the good hands rather The US.

idiot :2 cents:

i just wanted to point a few things out, the USA may have the worlds highest GDP, but it doesnt have the worlds largest per capita GDP. also the USA owes aprox 60% of its GDP as debt, whereas other countries such as the UK only owe aprox 40%.
also to the person who talked about the states cutting of trade with china, you obviously have no idea about politics or economics, politically and economically speaking the states wouldnt stop trade with china unless they had a very good reason to do so. for starters the rest of the world wouldnt be too pleased about this and im sure both the UN, and the E.U would have something to say about this.

Know dont get me wrong the United States is a very rich very powerful country but i would also like to point out the fact that most of their wealth and power came from exploiting poorere countries.

Anyways why do you allways have to say that your country is the best, who cares, im british, britain isnt the richest or most powerful country, but im fine with that i live a good life, my friends family and the british people as a whole live a good life so as far as im concerned its all good.

and anyways even if amerca was the richest most powerful country it still doesnt make you the best, take italy for examply they dont have the power or the money that the americans have, but you know what else they dont have, they dont have the greed, the political backstabbing, the high crime rates, the general ignorance, and the levels of discrimination and segregation that is seen in america. I just dont see why you allways wanna say that you country is the best, i mean personally id rather see my country become poorer and a little worse off, if it meant all the poorer countries became a little better off.

Surely the Euro zone is "an economy" with one currency....

What does America produce? There is an 800 Billion trade deficit.

Any idiot can consume thats all Americans do is consume.

No society can last that does not produce real capital.

in china, the people are slaves, they live to work, that's all what their life is about. What do you think how they pull up a new york sized city in 20 years..SLAVERY!!! 1 dollar / day machines

True, that's why it's not special anymore.

so no one can predict one way or the other ???? I predict the US will not collapse tomorrow and that China will not pass us up by the end of the week. you are funny, keep trying. :1orglaugh

Does anyone else think that a lot of this stuff will be moot in a couple decades anyway? With technology enhancing daily, we aren't separated like we were in the past. We can conference call with India for pennies, hire entire customer service divisions in Pakistan, and build products in Brazil without a hitch. It's no longer a huge gap between countries.

But the biggest problem we run into is IF the US economy collapses, so will the global economy. China and Japan will be devastated, and the rest of the world will feel the impact. In fact, countries like Japan would suffer huge depressions like we did in the 20's (virtually the same thing happened in reverse with the US and Europe). But the problem is that this scenario has never been tested before in the history of the world, so no one really knows for certain what will happen.

But I guess I'm not seeing why people are so happy about this. Do most of you realize that the majority of your income comes from US customers? I'm not trying to be patriotic or wave a flag because I don't really care about nationalism bullshit. But if the US tanks, so do most of your incomes.

:1orglaugh

triple Turkey and double Russia due to their disrecordeds, I believe more countries but they are the one playing to the top also... if you want to add black market, then more double and add more countries to the list even like Hungary...

IMO China may already reach the US state but who wants to become a Chinese? this is still a big fact and heck of the US

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...estimates_(PPP)

Btw. GFY server seems so fast, altough it warns about 3 minutes to edit the post, ends like within a minute.

We will see a new empire soon, a world government.

Thanks for proving my point.

The fact that a few countries share a common currency it's only a small part of what EU means. It's an economic union on its way to a political one. The member countries share common policies on many fields.
But above all it's a model on how such different countries, with different languages and cultural backgrounds gather and generously share their values peacefully for the prosperity and freedom of its citizens.
Economically, sure you can compare it with US, as EU it's an economic union.
And sure there is a EU government with a leader and a EU parliament. Military speaking, most of the countries being NATO members, there is no need for a common military force, although is a subject that is on debate.
I'm not an EU expert, but in the world today it is a model on how things should be solved peacefully, without involving the military power.

Some of you people really need a course in remedial economics.

China is growing at 10% a year and India is growing at 8% a year.
The thing you fail to understand is that these countries aren't really the ones growing. It's U.S. capital and U.S. companies that are growing, using Chinese and Indian labor. If we pull out they collapse, simple as that. We own the factories and the technology that allow their economic output. We "are" the consumers who purchase the goods and services created there, without us there is no economic growth in those countries.

As for the national debt of the U.S., there's an old saying that's very relevant to this situation "If you owe the bank $50,000, the bank owns you. If you owe the bank $50,000,000 then you own the bank"

War !!!!!

<3 eu, freedom without borders!

When most of the people accept anyone as they are and respect them unless they directly harm others to be as they are.

i really respect fat, anti-social turds who are also experts on macro economics.

:1orglaugh

me too you for your misthoughts and would like to meet you, where are you living at?

in the Principality of Monaco... near the Burger King on Crenshaw

fine living in Sisli, Mecidiyekoy, metro center of Istanbul also my family city is Antalya remind with Monaco a lot, hope to meet with you, probably will travel the world this summer because i am really bored and really like to having friends all over the world.
Btw. due to Istanbul Uni, Business administration faculty i got a bit used to with economy but you know what, you are right, bugging with the money and the girls more than usual is making you a bit heavy guy to hold that weight forever more than anyone usual. Do not worry, i understand you... it happens.

And I will add,

The minority now rules out of political correctness.

And that leads us into a whole different discussion. Had the lack of political correctness not been so over blown in the past (lynchings, etc...) we wouldn't feel like we have to give more than we should right now.

I think it is time for America to stop catering to races and start thinking about America as a whole. It is also time to stop corruption on all levels.

How can we have a billion dollar welfare system in each state and only a few hundred people to police it? WTF?

look at EVERYTHING you buy in a store and look at how much of it is "made in china"

we are selling ourselves out to save a few bucks by sending all our money to china

we are doing nothing but strengthening THEIR economy (which they in turn use our money to fortify their infrastructure & military) while ERODING the american economy !!!

:mad:

You must not understand how the economy works.

The things are made in China, by AMERICAN companies.
Sure the jobs are in China, but who's going to do those jobs here? We have a 4.5% unemployment rate, and when the baby boomers start retiring 1/3 of our workforce is going to disappear.

We're not eroding the U.S. economy, in fact it's stronger and more stable now than at any time in history.

Fun facts provided by the CIA's World Factbook.

China:
GDP (purchasing power parity): $10 trillion (2006 est.)
GDP (official exchange rate): $2.512 trillion (2006 est.)
GDP - real growth rate: 10.5% (official data) (2006 est.)
GDP - per capita (PPP): $7,600 (2006 est.)
Labor force: 798 million (2006 est.)

United States:
GDP (purchasing power parity): $12.98 trillion (2006 est.)
GDP (official exchange rate): $13.22 trillion (2006 est.)
GDP - real growth rate: 3.4% (2006 est.)
GDP - per capita (PPP): $43,500 (2006 est.)
Labor force: 151.4 million (includes unemployed) (2006 est.)

Population Projections:
China: Current (1,313,973,713) Projected by 2050 (1,530,000,000)
USA: Current (301,476,236) Projected by 2050 (393,931,000)
India: Current (1,095,351,995) Projected by 2050 (1,628,000)

Add 3 zeros to the Indian projection...

so, lets say 1/3 of that workforce disappears....who's going to to do those jobs & pick up the slack ? - not americans, those job #'s will go to china


i suggest you educate yourself an a VERY REAL threat to american livelihood:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...576831,00.html


also take a reading of "The Chinese Century" by Howard Bloom

:upsidedow

Yes the jobs will go overseas most likely, and those people will work for AMERICAN companies. Companies that are regulated by the US govt and pay taxes to the US govt.

I used to watch Lou Dobbs and get all worked up too. Being the analytical person that I am I decided to do alot of research on the outsourcing of jobs and free trade agreements and whether they were good or bad for the average American.

Bottom line is we're better off and more prosperous now than at any time in history. Things will continue to go the way they're going, the demographics demand it. Sure the manufacturing jobs are going overseas, if they didn't we wouldn't have had enough workers here to create the information economy.
Now alot of white(ish) collar jobs are going overseas also, and again this will free up the human capital we need for the next era, which I have no doubt the U.S. will be at the front of, and profit the most from.

What exactly are AMERICAN companies? Globalisation doesn't only mean labor going wherever conditions are favorable. Revenue is also retained where and how the maximum tax advantage can be gained. Ownership of companies is international too. Come to that, the US government itself is up to its eyeballs in debt to foreign countries.

Even if current unemployment figures weren't understated, they shouldn't provide much comfort. Well-paid manufacturing jobs have been replaced by jobs in retailing and service industries. Worse, many of these jobs are part-time as well as being lower-paid. And the situation cannot reverse itself, because there are thousands of businesses wholly or mainly dependent on the US market. To keep selling to people who - on average - were better off 50 years ago, companies must keep finding cheaper sources for their goods and services. For many, it isn't about making extra profit, but about survival.

Nor is the problem only at a national level. If you spend money in a national chain, most of every dollar goes out of state, a lot into tax avoidance schemes, and a decent proportion of the distributed profits leave the country altogether, paid to foreign shareholders. Spend a dollar with a local business and between the taxes which are paid locally, local employment provided, etc., etc., the effect of that snowballs into $7 benefit to the community (according to a federal-sponsored report circulated last year by my city council and who am I to argue with them?).

None of which is specifically a US problem. All first-world countries are basically in the same boat. The bottom line is that when we all put our kings, queens and the rest of the feudal system out to pasture, we were sold an illusion. The US constitution, which reflects the beliefs and aspirations commonly held throughout North America, Europe, Australasia and many other parts of the world, is totally at odds with our economic system.

But while we all live in theory in countries where individuals matter and everyone has equal opportunity, in reality we live under pyramidal systems, the same as we did hundreds of years ago. Individually we get to make choices. As individuals we all have the chance to make good. But collectively, we are living in a world in which the base of the pyramid is getting wider and the top is growing higher. There is no way up without displacing at least one other person downwards.

Some economists say that's fine. As labor costs fall in one country, it becomes more attractive to those needing cheap labor. So while countries go through cycles, globally everything is constantly business as usual. But this ignores the reality that while people in China may be becoming better off at the expense of people in the US (for example), thus creating new markets, the whole time, profits are being siphoned out of the money supply, into the hands of a relatively small number of people. The total amount being returned to the consumers on whom everyone depends, is constantly shrinking (in real terms). That is why other economists argue that capitalism is just as flawed - albeit for different reasons - as socialism and communism.

What was it, a month ago there was a thread here about the number of millionaires or billionaires in the US? Good news for the people involved, certainly, but bad news for the rest of us. Discounting the number created by inflation, the rest have made their extra pile at the expense of others. This is not a political rant: that's exactly how the system is supposed to work. The fact remains that money in the hands of people who have little, is returned straight to the economy of whatever locale they inhabit. It goes around and around, generating wages, taxes, further spending, more wages and taxes, etc.

Not only is the wealth of the wealthy far less efficient at spreading money around, but as more of the money supply filters upwards, more join the ranks of the poor. That creates financial and other issues as we are forced to decide to what extent citizens should have a safety net.

Enough... I didn't start this intending it to turn into War and Peace. My original point was that it is fast becoming irrelevant to think in terms of US companies, Japanese companies or whatever. They are simply companies. Not a problem unless it makes you wonder for how much longer the concept of nations will have any meaning at all...

I quit reading at this sentence, because this statement is absolutely false.

Don't believe the propaganda about Job Security this and Pension Benefits that. Americans are WAY WAY WAY better off than they were 50 years ago.
Our standard of living is the best in the history of the planet.

Nobody likes change, and change makes people feel insecure, but don't confuse feelings of insecurity with the fact that our standard of living and quality of life are higher than they've ever been. The numbers don't lie.

there is no "next era" dude, thats what this is about

the shift of economic power is moving away from the US and going towards China

China will soon become the worlds largest customer of oil, a title the US currently holds....

what do you think's gonna happen, years down the road, when there isn't enough oil to adequately supply both of our country's needs!??!??!

ww3 will be between the US & China, its plainly evident this is the current course




and while we're happily shopping at walmart singing the praises of $4.98 t-shirts - we're setting ourselves up for a major ass kicking in a decade or two because we sent all our money overseas to strengthen china's military & funded their growth