And I will add,

The minority now rules out of political correctness.

And that leads us into a whole different discussion. Had the lack of political correctness not been so over blown in the past (lynchings, etc...) we wouldn't feel like we have to give more than we should right now.

I think it is time for America to stop catering to races and start thinking about America as a whole. It is also time to stop corruption on all levels.

How can we have a billion dollar welfare system in each state and only a few hundred people to police it? WTF?

look at EVERYTHING you buy in a store and look at how much of it is "made in china"

we are selling ourselves out to save a few bucks by sending all our money to china

we are doing nothing but strengthening THEIR economy (which they in turn use our money to fortify their infrastructure & military) while ERODING the american economy !!!

:mad:

You must not understand how the economy works.

The things are made in China, by AMERICAN companies.
Sure the jobs are in China, but who's going to do those jobs here? We have a 4.5% unemployment rate, and when the baby boomers start retiring 1/3 of our workforce is going to disappear.

We're not eroding the U.S. economy, in fact it's stronger and more stable now than at any time in history.

Fun facts provided by the CIA's World Factbook.

China:
GDP (purchasing power parity): $10 trillion (2006 est.)
GDP (official exchange rate): $2.512 trillion (2006 est.)
GDP - real growth rate: 10.5% (official data) (2006 est.)
GDP - per capita (PPP): $7,600 (2006 est.)
Labor force: 798 million (2006 est.)

United States:
GDP (purchasing power parity): $12.98 trillion (2006 est.)
GDP (official exchange rate): $13.22 trillion (2006 est.)
GDP - real growth rate: 3.4% (2006 est.)
GDP - per capita (PPP): $43,500 (2006 est.)
Labor force: 151.4 million (includes unemployed) (2006 est.)

Population Projections:
China: Current (1,313,973,713) Projected by 2050 (1,530,000,000)
USA: Current (301,476,236) Projected by 2050 (393,931,000)
India: Current (1,095,351,995) Projected by 2050 (1,628,000)

Add 3 zeros to the Indian projection...

so, lets say 1/3 of that workforce disappears....who's going to to do those jobs & pick up the slack ? - not americans, those job #'s will go to china


i suggest you educate yourself an a VERY REAL threat to american livelihood:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...576831,00.html


also take a reading of "The Chinese Century" by Howard Bloom

:upsidedow

Yes the jobs will go overseas most likely, and those people will work for AMERICAN companies. Companies that are regulated by the US govt and pay taxes to the US govt.

I used to watch Lou Dobbs and get all worked up too. Being the analytical person that I am I decided to do alot of research on the outsourcing of jobs and free trade agreements and whether they were good or bad for the average American.

Bottom line is we're better off and more prosperous now than at any time in history. Things will continue to go the way they're going, the demographics demand it. Sure the manufacturing jobs are going overseas, if they didn't we wouldn't have had enough workers here to create the information economy.
Now alot of white(ish) collar jobs are going overseas also, and again this will free up the human capital we need for the next era, which I have no doubt the U.S. will be at the front of, and profit the most from.

What exactly are AMERICAN companies? Globalisation doesn't only mean labor going wherever conditions are favorable. Revenue is also retained where and how the maximum tax advantage can be gained. Ownership of companies is international too. Come to that, the US government itself is up to its eyeballs in debt to foreign countries.

Even if current unemployment figures weren't understated, they shouldn't provide much comfort. Well-paid manufacturing jobs have been replaced by jobs in retailing and service industries. Worse, many of these jobs are part-time as well as being lower-paid. And the situation cannot reverse itself, because there are thousands of businesses wholly or mainly dependent on the US market. To keep selling to people who - on average - were better off 50 years ago, companies must keep finding cheaper sources for their goods and services. For many, it isn't about making extra profit, but about survival.

Nor is the problem only at a national level. If you spend money in a national chain, most of every dollar goes out of state, a lot into tax avoidance schemes, and a decent proportion of the distributed profits leave the country altogether, paid to foreign shareholders. Spend a dollar with a local business and between the taxes which are paid locally, local employment provided, etc., etc., the effect of that snowballs into $7 benefit to the community (according to a federal-sponsored report circulated last year by my city council and who am I to argue with them?).

None of which is specifically a US problem. All first-world countries are basically in the same boat. The bottom line is that when we all put our kings, queens and the rest of the feudal system out to pasture, we were sold an illusion. The US constitution, which reflects the beliefs and aspirations commonly held throughout North America, Europe, Australasia and many other parts of the world, is totally at odds with our economic system.

But while we all live in theory in countries where individuals matter and everyone has equal opportunity, in reality we live under pyramidal systems, the same as we did hundreds of years ago. Individually we get to make choices. As individuals we all have the chance to make good. But collectively, we are living in a world in which the base of the pyramid is getting wider and the top is growing higher. There is no way up without displacing at least one other person downwards.

Some economists say that's fine. As labor costs fall in one country, it becomes more attractive to those needing cheap labor. So while countries go through cycles, globally everything is constantly business as usual. But this ignores the reality that while people in China may be becoming better off at the expense of people in the US (for example), thus creating new markets, the whole time, profits are being siphoned out of the money supply, into the hands of a relatively small number of people. The total amount being returned to the consumers on whom everyone depends, is constantly shrinking (in real terms). That is why other economists argue that capitalism is just as flawed - albeit for different reasons - as socialism and communism.

What was it, a month ago there was a thread here about the number of millionaires or billionaires in the US? Good news for the people involved, certainly, but bad news for the rest of us. Discounting the number created by inflation, the rest have made their extra pile at the expense of others. This is not a political rant: that's exactly how the system is supposed to work. The fact remains that money in the hands of people who have little, is returned straight to the economy of whatever locale they inhabit. It goes around and around, generating wages, taxes, further spending, more wages and taxes, etc.

Not only is the wealth of the wealthy far less efficient at spreading money around, but as more of the money supply filters upwards, more join the ranks of the poor. That creates financial and other issues as we are forced to decide to what extent citizens should have a safety net.

Enough... I didn't start this intending it to turn into War and Peace. My original point was that it is fast becoming irrelevant to think in terms of US companies, Japanese companies or whatever. They are simply companies. Not a problem unless it makes you wonder for how much longer the concept of nations will have any meaning at all...

I quit reading at this sentence, because this statement is absolutely false.

Don't believe the propaganda about Job Security this and Pension Benefits that. Americans are WAY WAY WAY better off than they were 50 years ago.
Our standard of living is the best in the history of the planet.

Nobody likes change, and change makes people feel insecure, but don't confuse feelings of insecurity with the fact that our standard of living and quality of life are higher than they've ever been. The numbers don't lie.

there is no "next era" dude, thats what this is about

the shift of economic power is moving away from the US and going towards China

China will soon become the worlds largest customer of oil, a title the US currently holds....

what do you think's gonna happen, years down the road, when there isn't enough oil to adequately supply both of our country's needs!??!??!

ww3 will be between the US & China, its plainly evident this is the current course




and while we're happily shopping at walmart singing the praises of $4.98 t-shirts - we're setting ourselves up for a major ass kicking in a decade or two because we sent all our money overseas to strengthen china's military & funded their growth

These statements are such a stretch on so many levels it's not even funny.

China will not fight a war with the U.S. over oil, or over anything. Why would you want to kill your biggest customer and cripple your own economy?
The biggest benefit of free trade is that it stops wars. Countries that do business together are far less likely to get into a shooting war, history proves this.

The fact that you think there is no "next era" in the economy shows how naive you really are. There's really no point in discussing anything further with you, if you can't see how advances in biotechnology, dna sequencing and the like are going to revolutionize the world economy then you're really not fit to have an intelligent discussion on economics or trade.

Best answer yet

yep, this thread is pointless.

We need to worry more about our army, if china and Korea match up they will be the new super force. luckily japan has our back now.

:1orglaugh :pimp

I seriously doubt routine government stats qualify as propaganda. Anyway who needs propaganda when you can use your own eyes: I'm old enough to remember when a working mother was unusual. Now for most families a second income is a necessity.

Have you travelled through the "Heartland" recently, thousands of square miles of corporate farms (many not even American-owned) and communities which have been in decline for a century. The mid-west is home to some of the poorest parts of the US and there isn't the slightest prospect of improvement. Try visiting towns such as the one in which I live, where more than 20% are permanently on welfare and people won't even paint their homes because that would mean an increase in taxes.

The whole concept of onwards and upwards on the tails of business profits is transparent bullsh*t. If you take a man who was earning $20 an hour in a shoe factory or whatever, and give him a job selling shoes for $10 an hour, it doesn't take an economist to figure out he is going to be spending a whole lot less money in future. Repeat that across thousands of factories in hundreds of industries and before long, with the buying power of your customers reduced, prices are forced down and margins end up no better than before the first factory closed.

That was a reality no-one had a problem with back in the 70's. Politicians of both parties were comfortable admitting where we were headed, because then they could tell people not to worry, everyone would soon be doing clean, high-tech jobs and earning more than ever before. Unfortunately for most, that brave new world never happened and now we are exporting hi-tech jobs too. The best way to hide a lack of answers, is to pretend a problem doesn't exist, so these days we pretend that such scenarios are all a figment of fevered left-wing imaginations.

I think it's due to us having less rules for workers and they pay less

By what definition has the US been an "empire"? Or do you mean that figuratively? Either way, World War II did not create an American empire. It created a bipolar world with the USA and its allies on one side and the USSR and its allies on the other. Capitalism vs Communism. Totalitarianism vs Democracy. The US, by default, was left as the only superpower in 1991.

So this kind of thing - the US as the world's lone superpower - can be said to have started only about 16 years ago.

Nothing has gone wrong. Demographics and the spread of capitalistic markets as championed by the United States itself will help the far eastern countries of India and China to the point where it is likely they will become the largest economic powers in the world.

Economic power flows in the direction of large populations especially when the economic rules are becoming more similar.

In Asia We Trust.

L M F A O

this is what happens when you bug more than 2 years at least with porn and been just a poor nothing but an affiliate under a PC 7/24 and thought the world as yourself i think in the GFY. Happy times .

I assure you http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...discipline.jpg , this not me http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k1.../funny0214.jpg

but can not find the 10 differences between 2 photos.
Can you?

when you think your are the best , the bigger and invincible this is the beginning of the end

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

You're missing the Clinton Years, be curious to see those, but I believe they were very low numbers.

Correct.

How many accounts do you have in GFY?

Barefootsies
Date of Birth:
October 10, 1972
Age:
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Biography:
webmaster since 1997
Location:
Michigan
Interests:
Foot Fetish, & golf
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sunserrae1
Date of Birth:
October 10, 1972
Age:
34
Biography:
Horny.
Location:
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Interests:
Sucking toes and playing golf.
Occupation:
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I appreciate your efforts anyways since 1972

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

China Probably will not be #1, as the only reason, their economic is building up is because of their cheap product. Once their worker demand better wage, and their product become expensive no one will buy from them.

Seriously. If we stop buying their product, their economic will be in ruin. If they stop selling to us, worst will happen is consumer have to pay a few more dollar.

We consume because we could, we are not broke like you guys. If you guys could consume that much you would.

As long as US can pay the monthly payment, it doesn't matter how much we are in debt.

Man do not take it that hard, everyone's destiny appears due the things that they can not do more than they could, not only you.
I guess it should be really hard after your 30's to enjoy what you have done since that time and having the motivations to run after what you can not.

Rather to put yourself in anywhere or the things you have done even the things you are going to do instead of trying to be a virtual shovenist.

And try to not make any topic off-topic like a kid. No more bounty from me to you. Try to post something worthy, at least struggle for it man, I believe you can do it without farting to air to take your place in any discussion.

Routine government stats?
How about this, in the last 15 years we've had the lowest combined rates of unemployment and inflation ever.
Just because things suck where you live doesn't mean they suck everywhere.

I guess what you're saying is that the combine should never have been invented, because before the combine the vast majority of Americans were employed in agriculture, most of them lived and worked on farms.
Once the combine was invented most farm workers became unemployed and had to move to the cities to find work in factories.
But yeah, that whole industrial revolution thing was really bad for the country and the economy right?

Then the manufacturing jobs started moving overseas and people had to move and get jobs in information technology. I can see your point, this whole information age has really sucked for us too right?

If some guy made $20 an hour working in a shoe factory then he was overpaid. If his education and skills mean the best job he can get is selling shoes at $10 an hour then that's his lot in life. We shouldn't overpay people who don't have any marketable skills just because it'll make you feel better.

Also, regarding your remark about both parents working being a "necessity" I guess that depends on how you define necessity.
If you think things like cell phones, cable television, high speed internet access, personal computers, ipods, gym memberships and tanning salons are necessities, then I guess you're right.

However, in the era you're referring to, none of those things existed and the average family of 4 lived in a house smaller than 1000 sq ft. If you're willing to do without all of these modern conveniences and live in a very small place, I'm sure the average family can get by with only one parent working. :2 cents:

chine is 1stright now i guess...i wouldnt live in china tough :) who feels like workng for 1 dollar/day after all? ::)

lol :1orglaugh

No, you guys are getting debt and deficit confused.

Also. You have to COMPARE the debt to something. Debt as a percentage of GDP is lower in the US today than it was in 1950. It is almost half of what it was in 1946 compared to the size of the economy. In other words, the US economy has grown mush faster than it's debt for the past 70 years.

A company with one billion in assets can usually handle having 500 million in debt. A company with one billion in assets and more than one billion in debt is usually in credit trouble. In a world where most nations use a Keynesian spending stimulus the nations with the largest economies will often have the most debt. It turns out that the US debt/GDP ratio is close to the average of the G8 countries. The debt itself only looks preposterously high because the US GDP also looks preposterously out of whack.

Industrial supplies, chemicals, transistors, aircraft, cars, computers, telecommunications equipments, software, medicines, beer, soft drinks. The list is long.

US exports have increased faster in the past 20 years than the economy itself. Its imports have increased even faster - thus its "trade deficit".

Of course it is beneficial for the US (and China) that a mammoth company like Wal Mart tries to lower its costs and pass down its savings to its customers. Thus many of its items are manufactured in China. Whether from US companies setting up shop there or purchasing directly from Chinese companies. Some goods are produced cheaper there. Some aren't. It's called "comparative advantage" and everyone benefits from it.

American companies are expanding intro China at a very fast rate. If you read a lot of 10-ks you know what i am talking about. Anheuser Bush, as an example, bought 27% of Tsingtao. Walmart has been opening stores in China. Home Depot has established a Chinese operation. America and China both benefit from an expanding Chinese economy.