120 Year Old Math Puzzle Solved! Lie group E8 - GoFuckYourself.com

DOCTOR 30 · 03-22-2007, 09:45 AM

http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science....ap/index.html

For you eggheads out here.

How did this puzzle go unsolved for 120 years????

Amazing!

It's like a fibinacci or something.

germ · 03-22-2007, 10:11 AM

wow...thats amazing.

Altheon · 03-22-2007, 10:14 AM

And to think i still use my fingers to do math.

Phoenix · 03-22-2007, 10:15 AM

more info needed...i dont know what problem they solved

JD · 03-22-2007, 10:18 AM

Quote:

The calculation does not have any obvious practical applications but could help advance theoretical physics and geometry, researchers said.

so basically it was a giant was of time

Metalsound · 03-22-2007, 10:18 AM

Damn thats some awesome math.

D · 03-22-2007, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOCTOR 30

How did this puzzle go unsolved for 120 years????

"248 dimensions"

That's the kinda stuff that even Stephen Hawking has a hard time getting his head around.

RuthB · 03-22-2007, 10:24 AM

that's intense.. what's perhaps more intense is that they spent 4 years dedicated to solving the problem and they say there are no obvious practical applications for the resulting calculation..

lol gotta love it!

TheDoc · 03-22-2007, 10:36 AM

The E8 calculation
A group of mathematicians started to develop algorithms and software to do these calculations (for any Lie group) in 2002. Fokko du Cloux took on the monumental task of writing the software, and by the fall of 2005 this software was ready. After calculations on smaller groups, they were ready to tackle E8.

Specifically the goal was to compute Kazhdan-Lusztig-Vogan polynomials for the large block of the split real form of E8. This block as 453,060 irreducible representations. For more information here are even more details.

The enormous size and complexity of E8 meant that his program needed a very large computer to run - one with more than 200 gigabytes of RAM. Starting in the summer of 2006, du Cloux, David Vogan and Marc van Leeuwen worked to make the program run on a smaller computer. After some experiments on other computers, by Birne Binegar and Dan Barbasch, the computations were run on the supercomputer Sage, provided by William Stein at the University of Washington. Sage has 64 gigabytes of memory and 16 processors.
The size of the answer
The result of the E8 calculation is a matrix, or grid, with 453,060 rows and columns. There are 205,263,363,600 entries in the matrix, each of which is a polynomial. The largest entry in the matrix is:

152 q22 + 3,472 q21 + 38,791 q20 + 293,021 q19 + 1,370,892 q18 + 4,067,059 q17 + 7,964,012 q16 + 11,159,003 q15 + 11,808,808 q14 + 9,859,915 q13 + 6,778,956 q12 + 3,964,369 q11 + 2,015,441 q10 + 906,567 q9 + 363,611 q8 + 129,820 q7 + 41,239 q6 + 11,426 q5 + 2,677 q4 + 492 q3 + 61 q2 + 3 q

If each entry was written in a one inch square, then the entire matrix would measure more than 7 miles on each side.

Even with a supercomputer it required very sophisticated mathematics and computer science to carry out the calculation. The computation was completed on January 8, 2007. Ultimately the computation took 77 hours of computer time, and 60 gigabytes to store the answer in a highly compressed form.

This is a huge amount of data. By way of comparison, a human genome can be stored in less than one gigabyte. For a more down to earth comparison, 60 gigabytes is enough to store 45 days of continuous music in MP3-format.

Some other facts about the answer
Size of the matrix: 453,060

Number of distinct polynomials: 1,181,642,979

Number of coefficients in distinct polynomials: 13,721,641,221

Maximal coefficient: 11,808,808

Polynomial with the maximal coefficient: 152q22 + 3,472q21 + 38,791q20 + 293,021q19 + 1,370,892q18 + 4,067,059q17 + 7,964,012q16 + 11,159,003q15 + 11,808,808q14 + 9,859,915q13 + 6,778,956q12 + 3,964,369q11 + 2,015,441q10 + 906,567q9 + 363,611q8 + 129,820q7 + 41,239q6 + 11,426q5 + 2,677q4 + 492q3 + 61q2 + 3q
Value of this polynomial at q=1: 60,779,787

Polynomial with the largest value at 1 which we've found so far: 1,583q22 + 18,668q21 + 127,878q20 + 604,872q19 + 2,040,844q18 + 4,880,797q17 + 8,470,080q16 + 11,143,777q15 + 11,467,297q14 + 9,503,114q13 + 6,554,446q12 + 3,862,269q11 + 1,979,443q10 + 896,537q9 + 361,489q8 + 129,510q7 + 41,211q6 + 11,425q5 + 2,677q4 + 492q3 + 61q2 + 3q
Value of this polynomial at q=1: 62,098,473

source

DirtyDanza · 03-22-2007, 11:30 AM

tahts some jew shit right there

jixxi · 03-22-2007, 11:39 AM

That's what I love about math. The most difficult subject you have to take and there are no practical applications at all.

Angelo22 · 03-22-2007, 11:40 AM

Hah, it took mathematicians a while

darling2 · 03-22-2007, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jixxi

That's what I love about math. The most difficult subject you have to take and there are no practical applications at all.

No practical application yet.

Just remember George Boole who died in poverty in 1864. He invented some silly math using just 1 and 0 and his work gathered dust for almost 100 years until it was used to make the first digital computer.

VeriSexy · 03-22-2007, 12:27 PM

That is crazy and cool

V_RocKs · 03-22-2007, 12:30 PM

I need to get out more.

NOT!

Dollarmansteve · 03-22-2007, 12:34 PM

apparently it may have some application to string theory. Also, it wasnt a puzzle in the sense of Fermats Last Theorem or something like that, it was more that the computing power /programming wasnt in place to perform the calculations needed to solve the space until recently.

ucv.karl · 03-22-2007, 12:44 PM

Here's the party animals of E8.

Apparently sock and sandals are required for the Group photo.

E8-4Life

djroof · 03-22-2007, 12:53 PM

wow this is great!!!!!!!!!!

pornguy · 03-22-2007, 12:53 PM

I was going to solve that for them, but my crayon broke.

JFK · 03-22-2007, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ucv.karl

Here's the party animals of E8.

Apparently sock and sandals are required for the Group photo.

E8-4Life

so it seems! What a brain Trust

mechanicvirus · 03-22-2007, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPeRMiNaToR

so basically it was a giant was of time

Technically this and all you have ever done is a waste of time.

dougeetx · 03-22-2007, 01:02 PM

No practical application? WTF! All of that wasted time! Could've been baking cookies!!!

Pumba · 03-22-2007, 01:26 PM

Impresive, as sad before it will find application one day. Many parts of math are discovered much before practical explanation. About sandals: maybe that is where all their ideas comes from. So friends, I am going to buy a pair. It looks that old belive that people with the glasses are smart is wrong. Sandals are the key.

woj · 03-22-2007, 02:04 PM

amazing, but what is it good for?

ArkansasDave · 03-22-2007, 02:15 PM

thats amazing, i'm still working on the rubiks cube ..!

High Plains Drifter · 03-22-2007, 02:20 PM

That computing power should have been used for a practical application, like internet porn.

Just_Dave · 03-22-2007, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woj

amazing, but what is it good for?

same thing i was going to ask

gAmE-MaStEr · 03-22-2007, 02:35 PM

amazing ...

JD · 03-22-2007, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mechanicvirus

Technically this and all you have ever done is a waste of time.

never said it wasn't ;)

starpimps · 03-22-2007, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altheon

And to think i still use my fingers to do math.

lol same hahaha
i always use my fingers to count

LittleSassy · 03-22-2007, 05:52 PM

damn that's badass...though what would they gain after solving this?

03-22-2007, 09:45 AM	#1
DOCTOR 30 So Fucking Banned Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 846	120 Year Old Math Puzzle Solved! Lie group E8 http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science....ap/index.html For you eggheads out here. How did this puzzle go unsolved for 120 years???? Amazing! It's like a fibinacci or something.

03-22-2007, 10:15 AM	#4
Phoenix BACON BACON BACON Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Poems everybody, the laddie fancies himself a poet Posts: 35,465	more info needed...i dont know what problem they solved __________________ Skype Phoenixskype1 Telegram PhoenixBrad https://quantads.io

03-22-2007, 10:18 AM	#6
Metalsound Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Right now . . . Everywhere Posts: 880	Damn thats some awesome math. __________________ There are more important things than money . . . BUT THEY COST TOO MUCH

03-22-2007, 10:24 AM	#8
RuthB Let's Get Paxumized! Industry Role: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 7,247	that's intense.. what's perhaps more intense is that they spent 4 years dedicated to solving the problem and they say there are no obvious practical applications for the resulting calculation.. lol gotta love it! __________________ Send & Receive Mass Global Payments - Mass P2P/Wire/EFT/SEPA - Adult Industry Friendly - Award Winning Payment Service - Fast, Reliable & Secure! Paxum ...... Paxum Bank Email: [email protected] ~ Telegram: PaxumRuth

03-22-2007, 10:36 AM	#9
TheDoc Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Currently Incognito Posts: 13,827	The E8 calculation A group of mathematicians started to develop algorithms and software to do these calculations (for any Lie group) in 2002. Fokko du Cloux took on the monumental task of writing the software, and by the fall of 2005 this software was ready. After calculations on smaller groups, they were ready to tackle E8. Specifically the goal was to compute Kazhdan-Lusztig-Vogan polynomials for the large block of the split real form of E8. This block as 453,060 irreducible representations. For more information here are even more details. The enormous size and complexity of E8 meant that his program needed a very large computer to run - one with more than 200 gigabytes of RAM. Starting in the summer of 2006, du Cloux, David Vogan and Marc van Leeuwen worked to make the program run on a smaller computer. After some experiments on other computers, by Birne Binegar and Dan Barbasch, the computations were run on the supercomputer Sage, provided by William Stein at the University of Washington. Sage has 64 gigabytes of memory and 16 processors. The size of the answer The result of the E8 calculation is a matrix, or grid, with 453,060 rows and columns. There are 205,263,363,600 entries in the matrix, each of which is a polynomial. The largest entry in the matrix is: 152 q22 + 3,472 q21 + 38,791 q20 + 293,021 q19 + 1,370,892 q18 + 4,067,059 q17 + 7,964,012 q16 + 11,159,003 q15 + 11,808,808 q14 + 9,859,915 q13 + 6,778,956 q12 + 3,964,369 q11 + 2,015,441 q10 + 906,567 q9 + 363,611 q8 + 129,820 q7 + 41,239 q6 + 11,426 q5 + 2,677 q4 + 492 q3 + 61 q2 + 3 q If each entry was written in a one inch square, then the entire matrix would measure more than 7 miles on each side. Even with a supercomputer it required very sophisticated mathematics and computer science to carry out the calculation. The computation was completed on January 8, 2007. Ultimately the computation took 77 hours of computer time, and 60 gigabytes to store the answer in a highly compressed form. This is a huge amount of data. By way of comparison, a human genome can be stored in less than one gigabyte. For a more down to earth comparison, 60 gigabytes is enough to store 45 days of continuous music in MP3-format. Some other facts about the answer Size of the matrix: 453,060 Number of distinct polynomials: 1,181,642,979 Number of coefficients in distinct polynomials: 13,721,641,221 Maximal coefficient: 11,808,808 Polynomial with the maximal coefficient: 152q22 + 3,472q21 + 38,791q20 + 293,021q19 + 1,370,892q18 + 4,067,059q17 + 7,964,012q16 + 11,159,003q15 + 11,808,808q14 + 9,859,915q13 + 6,778,956q12 + 3,964,369q11 + 2,015,441q10 + 906,567q9 + 363,611q8 + 129,820q7 + 41,239q6 + 11,426q5 + 2,677q4 + 492q3 + 61q2 + 3q Value of this polynomial at q=1: 60,779,787 Polynomial with the largest value at 1 which we've found so far: 1,583q22 + 18,668q21 + 127,878q20 + 604,872q19 + 2,040,844q18 + 4,880,797q17 + 8,470,080q16 + 11,143,777q15 + 11,467,297q14 + 9,503,114q13 + 6,554,446q12 + 3,862,269q11 + 1,979,443q10 + 896,537q9 + 361,489q8 + 129,510q7 + 41,211q6 + 11,425q5 + 2,677q4 + 492q3 + 61q2 + 3q Value of this polynomial at q=1: 62,098,473 source __________________ ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825 It's all disambiguation

03-22-2007, 10:11 AM	#2
germ ( o Y o ) Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,108	wow...thats amazing.

03-22-2007, 10:14 AM	#3
Altheon Confirmed User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 506	And to think i still use my fingers to do math.

03-22-2007, 11:30 AM	#10
DirtyDanza Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: BP4L.... Las Vegas, Posts: 8,370	tahts some jew shit right there __________________ AVN Nominated Camming Couple

03-22-2007, 11:39 AM	#11
jixxi Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 227	That's what I love about math. The most difficult subject you have to take and there are no practical applications at all. __________________ Email : [email protected]

03-22-2007, 11:40 AM	#12
Angelo22 Writer Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 3,123	Hah, it took mathematicians a while __________________ MAKE MORE MONEY FROM YOUR WEB TRAFFIC - 15% BONUS And contact me if you need high quality translating and writing work done - angelo22 (AT) gmail (DOT) com

03-22-2007, 12:27 PM	#14
VeriSexy Join The Royal Family Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 25,463	That is crazy and cool __________________ Looking for a KICK ASS TEEN SPONSOR? Check out ROYAL CASH - THE KING OF TEEN! Incredible webmaster tools FHGs, Morphing Blog and RSS Feeds, Embedded FLV & WMV Videos. With TOP RATIO Sites like TeenStarsOnly.com - Earn $$ with our New Site & Bonus Payouts!! ATMovs.com \| iTeenVideo.com \| TeenSexMovs.com \| TeenSexMania.com

03-22-2007, 12:30 PM	#15
V_RocKs Damn Right I Kiss Ass! Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Cowtown, USA Posts: 32,422	I need to get out more. NOT!

03-22-2007, 12:34 PM	#16
Dollarmansteve Confirmed User Join Date: May 2005 Location: T.O. Posts: 2,849	apparently it may have some application to string theory. Also, it wasnt a puzzle in the sense of Fermats Last Theorem or something like that, it was more that the computing power /programming wasnt in place to perform the calculations needed to solve the space until recently. __________________ I died.

03-22-2007, 12:44 PM	#17
ucv.karl Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Phx,Az Posts: 498	Here's the party animals of E8. Apparently sock and sandals are required for the Group photo. E8-4Life __________________ It's better when you can Switch. ICQ: 263079754

03-22-2007, 12:53 PM	#18
djroof JuicyDevils.gr Owner Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Greece Posts: 25,416	wow this is great!!!!!!!!!!

03-22-2007, 12:53 PM	#19
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03-22-2007, 01:02 PM	#22
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03-22-2007, 01:26 PM	#23
Pumba Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Cloudbase Posts: 1,094	Impresive, as sad before it will find application one day. Many parts of math are discovered much before practical explanation. About sandals: maybe that is where all their ideas comes from. So friends, I am going to buy a pair. It looks that old belive that people with the glasses are smart is wrong. Sandals are the key.

03-22-2007, 02:04 PM	#24
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03-22-2007, 02:20 PM	#26
High Plains Drifter Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: ♠ ♣ ♥ Posts: 2,341	That computing power should have been used for a practical application, like internet porn.

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gAmE-MaStEr Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 896	amazing ...

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