For 2257 the model MUST have 2 ids? - GoFuckYourself.com

BOSS1 · 03-21-2007, 12:49 PM

Or is the picture of her holding just one ok ?

thehand · 03-21-2007, 01:07 PM

2 government issued ID's.

BOSS1 · 03-21-2007, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehand

2 government issued ID's.

hmmm a few clips the company i bought content from claims its 2257 compliant yet the model only holds 1 ID

stickyfingerz · 03-21-2007, 01:23 PM

unless its been changed only 1 is required but 2 is ideal.

96ukssob · 03-21-2007, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOSS1

hmmm a few clips the company i bought content from claims its 2257 compliant yet the model only holds 1 ID

then a few companies have lied to you

BOSS1 · 03-21-2007, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stickyfingerz

unless its been changed only 1 is required but 2 is ideal.

cool

thanks

AaronM · 03-21-2007, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stickyfingerz

unless its been changed only 1 is required but 2 is ideal.

And then there are those of us who have been paying attention.....

1 is required, 2 is against the rules and currently under legal debate.

AaronM · 03-21-2007, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOSS1

cool

thanks

Don't listen to him. He's wrong.

stickyfingerz · 03-21-2007, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronM

And then there are those of us who have been paying attention.....

1 is required, 2 is against the rules and currently under legal debate.

See this is the problem with the law as it is. Just no one knows. Is there an article or anything about the legality of asking for 2 ids Aaron?

AaronM · 03-21-2007, 01:33 PM

On Thu Mar 08 07:41:11 PST 2007

To All Our Valued Photographers,

We have revised our forms to be used in association with all our future
shoots.

Attached is our current 2257 Compliance Form, Model Release,
Photographer Agreement and Model Bio. Please take a moment to print
these out and review them prior to any scheduled shoots in case you have
any questions.

The main difference on the 2257 form is that we are now requiring only
one form of identification. Our lawyer has advised us that only one
Government Issued Id is required and that including more than one ID in
2257 records may actually violate the provision which requires that all
other non-required records be kept separate from 2257 records §75.2(e).
In addition, asking for a second ID may result in inconsistencies
between the two IDs. Please keep in mind that a clear, good-quality
photocopy of the ID must be attached to the form and the photocopy must
be signed in ink by the Model (If the ID does not contain a recent and
recognizable picture of the Model, only a Driver's License, State ID
Card or Military ID will be acceptable for U.S. Models and only a
passport will be acceptable for foreign Models).

Also, please make a mental note to check if the Models have filled in
their Maiden name on the 2257 form if applicable as a good percentage of
these Models have been or are married.

Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns with these new
forms.

_________________________________________

On Thu Mar 08 09:08:59 PST 2007

I've been wondering when somebody was going to do their 2257 this
way. The secondary piece of I.D. has never been required and maintaining the two I.D.'s together has been frowned on since day
one. You are the first clients I have had do this. It's nice to
see somebody who is trying to pay attention to the law for once.

Aaron

________________________________________

On Thu Mar 08 09:22:06 PST 2007

We have been wondering if anyone else is using it. You are right, the
second ID was just adopted by the Adult Industry for some reason. I
never knew until our lawyer pointed it out when I questioned him on the
new forms, but apparently you did. hehe And you know more about 2257
than most so it is nice to know that we are covering each other's asses
here. Have a good one and see you in Phoenix I hope.

pornguy · 03-21-2007, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronM

And then there are those of us who have been paying attention.....

1 is required, 2 is against the rules and currently under legal debate.

amazing aint it.

AaronM · 03-21-2007, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stickyfingerz

See this is the problem with the law as it is. Just no one knows. Is there an article or anything about the legality of asking for 2 ids Aaron?

I'm sure there are several resources for that. That's why some of us have attorneys.

AaronM · 03-21-2007, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pornguy

amazing aint it.

I used to think so. These days I hardly pay any attention to 2257 threads. I got sick of beating my head against the wall trying to help these people.

Fuck em.

AaronM · 03-21-2007, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bossku69

then a few companies have lied to you

Been in the business for at least 3 years and still doesn't know what is required by 2257.

This industry is FUCKED if they ever decide to check on the small guys.

jact · 03-21-2007, 01:38 PM

Truly amazing how stupid some people are.

Hey, let's take a chance with our freedom, let's take legal advice from GFY!

Grab a clue at 7/11.

PS: Aaron, don't bother trying to educate them, "experts" like bossku69 have spoken...

AaronM · 03-21-2007, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jact

Truly amazing how stupid some people are.

Hey, let's take a chance with our freedom, let's take legal advice from GFY!

Grab a clue at 7/11.

PS: Aaron, don't bother trying to educate them, "experts" like bossku69 have spoken...

I know man.....I know.

Are you and Treasure going to make it to Phoenix?

jact · 03-21-2007, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronM

I know man.....I know.

Are you and Treasure going to make it to Phoenix?

Wish we were, unfortunately it wasn't in the cards this time around. I think the next show we'll be attending is Toronto, then the slew of Florida shows...

NaughtyRob · 03-21-2007, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronM

And then there are those of us who have been paying attention.....

1 is required, 2 is against the rules and currently under legal debate.

Bada bing bada boom.

jact · 03-21-2007, 01:44 PM

THIS JUST IN!

New law just passed!

Models need 473 pieces of gov't issued ID, all valid, all with photos.

stickyfingerz · 03-21-2007, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronM

I'm sure there are several resources for that. That's why some of us have attorneys.

I have one. We've just always got 2 when we shoot a girl, but only send one to the client. That was just to protect our own asses since everyone said to do it. I think the reason people started pushing that was the risk of fake id is less if you ask for 2.

jact · 03-21-2007, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stickyfingerz

I have one. We've just always got 2 when we shoot a girl, but only send one to the client. That was just to protect our own asses since everyone said to do it. I think the reason people started pushing that was the risk of fake id is less if you ask for 2.

You have a lawyer, but you're listening to "everyone" ?

BOSS1 · 03-21-2007, 01:49 PM

Thanks Aron, I just came here to double check since my content provider is a well known reliable one...

So when I shoot I will keep it to 1 ID in the pic of the model. (I hope I got it right)

Ihave a meeting with an industry lawyer on monday so hopefully he will clear everything up for me....

Once again.. thanks for the help

jact · 03-21-2007, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOSS1

Thanks Aron, I just came here to double check since my content provider is a well known reliable one...

So when I shoot I will keep it to 1 ID in the pic of the model. (I hope I got it right)

Ihave a meeting with an industry lawyer on monday so hopefully he will clear everything up for me....

Once again.. thanks for the help

Hire a Canadian lawyer too to make sure you aren't breaking Canadian laws. You'd be surprised how many overlap. You have to decide which is the bigger evil.

BOSS1 · 03-21-2007, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jact

Hire a Canadian lawyer too to make sure you aren't breaking Canadian laws. You'd be surprised how many overlap. You have to decide which is the bigger evil.

Well mine is canadian...but he knows the online shit... or so people say...

if u know a good one around MTL let me know... having to sleaze bags is better then one

stickyfingerz · 03-21-2007, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jact

You have a lawyer, but you're listening to "everyone" ?

We do what is required. In fact we go beyond that and do pre interviews with the girls on video, we video tape them signing the releases and ask them on video if the id they presented us with is correct etc. That video and all the forms go on a dvd that is marked with the shoot number that goes on the customer invoice. So what happens if they decide to change it to 2 ids?

jact · 03-21-2007, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOSS1

Well mine is canadian...but he knows the online shit... or so people say...

if u know a good one around MTL let me know... having to sleaze bags is better then one

Our council is in Toronto, but definitely knows a lot more then the average in the industry. gardiner-roberts.com.

Matt 26z · 03-21-2007, 02:04 PM

They only need one ID to verify the model during a 2257 records check, so that's all they require.

Any documentation beyond that is for your own standards of security.

The FBI agent had said you won't get into trouble for having too much documentation. There are of course those who say it's a conspiracy and the DoJ will prosecute for having one extra piece of paper.

stickyfingerz · 03-21-2007, 02:05 PM

Talked to my lawyer. He advised me that 2 would not be a problem.

Quentin · 03-21-2007, 02:06 PM

From the electronic Code of Federal Regulations as provided by gpoaccess.gov, with emphasis added:

+++++
§ 75.2 Maintenance of records.
(a) Any producer of any book, magazine, periodical, film, videotape, digitally- or computer-manipulated image, digital image, picture, or other matter that contains a depiction of an actual human being engaged in actual sexually explicit conduct that is produced in whole or in part with materials that have been mailed or shipped in interstate or foreign commerce, or is shipped or transported or is intended for shipment or transportation in interstate or foreign commerce and that contains one or more visual depictions of an actual human being engaged in actual sexually explicit conduct made after July 3, 1995 shall, for each performer portrayed in such visual depiction, create and maintain records containing the following:

(1) The legal name and date of birth of each performer, obtained by the producer's examination of a picture identification card. For any performer portrayed in such a depiction made after July 3, 1995, the records shall also include a legible copy of the identification document examined and, if that document does not contain a recent and recognizable picture of the performer, a legible copy of a picture identification card....
++++

This information is "current"..... but the regulations are due for a change, following the passage of the Adam Walsh Act last July.

Actually, they literally are overdue for a change - the Attorney General was supposed to have issued new regulations for review/public comment in January.

The AG is also supposed to issue regulations regarding the new section 2257A this month... I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that to happen in the next 10 days, either.

- Q.

amacontent · 03-21-2007, 02:16 PM

Law is simple..

1 Government issued picture ID
a- passport
b- drivers license
c- military ID
d- state Identification card

2- you are to INSPECT a 2nd ID

You need keep on 1 file only 1 id.

AaronM · 03-21-2007, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stickyfingerz

Talked to my lawyer. He advised me that 2 would not be a problem.

Who is your lawyer?

czarina · 03-21-2007, 02:25 PM

I read the regulations about a year ago, and it was pretty clear to me that 1 is required, 2 are not only against the rules, but pretty much illegal. Go figure!

chadknowslaw · 03-21-2007, 02:26 PM

It is amazing how many different views can come from one small topic!

2257 has not been litigated, so no judge has interpreted the law, leaving lawyers and pseudo-lawyers to guess how the law may or may not be interpreted!

Here is one section that pertains to this topic:

§ 75.2 Maintenance of records.

(a) Any producer of any book, magazine, periodical, film, videotape, digitally- or computer-manipulated image, digital image, picture, or other matter ....that contains one or more visual depictions of an actual human being engaged in actual sexually explicit conduct made after July 3, 1995 shall, for each performer portrayed in such visual depiction, create and maintain records containing the following:

(1) The legal name and date of birth of each performer, obtained by the producer's examination of a picture identification card. For any performer portrayed in such a depiction made after July 3, 1995, the records shall also include a legible copy of the identification document examined and, if that document does not contain a recent and recognizable picture of the performer, a legible copy of a picture identification card.

What hangs people up, lawyers and well-intentioned GFY'ers, are the words "A" and "THE" when referring to a photo ID. Some want to interpret this SO LITERALLY that they believe it means there must be ONE, and ONLY ONE, picture identification card.

Believing that one and only one ID may be kept in 2257 records is nonsense. The regulation section I included above even refers to a second form of ID if the first does not have a recent picture.

One government issued ID is required. Getting 2 is just covering your ass and there is nothing wrong with keeping copies of 2 ID's in your records. I am so 150% certain that I am right on this that I make this guarantee--

I will provide full legal defense, or pay the attorney of your choice, for anyone who is indicted solely for having 2 model ID's in their records instead of 1.
I am that sure it will never happen.

The easiest way to get a fake ID to drink in a bar is to get an older brother or sister's ID. Bouncers know this, so when they have someone that looks young a good bouncer will ask for another form of ID--like a credit card. The older sibling might give up the driver's license for a night but rarely would give Junior a second ID or credit card to boot. The easiest way to get a fake ID to make some money getting naked is to get an older sibling's ID. If you deal with young models, demand to see at least 2 forms of ID. You will not get in trouble for asking for 2 forms of ID. You will get in trouble for shooting an underage model. I would think producers are at least as smart as the guys holding the door at nightclubs.

Matt 26z · 03-21-2007, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by czarina

I read the regulations about a year ago, and it was pretty clear to me that 1 is required, 2 are not only against the rules, but pretty much illegal. Go figure!

Even if you wanted to go with that interpretation, nobody is saying you have to keep the second ID with your primary 2257 records. Put it somewhere else.

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude · 03-21-2007, 02:46 PM

The rule to date has always been one form of photo ID, with the recent specification that it be a government issued ID such as a Drivers License, Passport, etc.

I was told the industry has been asking for a second form of ID (Social Security card, etc), in order to double check the name on the ID.

A good practice is to have the first photo and the first frame of video be of the model/performer holding the ID next to their face (with video, zoom in on the ID so that you can see the ID number and face clearly - I usually ask the performer if that is really them in the photo, and if they are over 18 as well).

An equally important issue, perhaps more important (since its hard to imagine the government getting too upset about an extra ID), is that I have seen many photographers include the 2257 info on their model release.

As I understand it, these should be two seperate documents. The 2257 should have only the info required by 2257, and should be stored away from any other documents (model releases, AIM test results, etc).

ADG Webmaster

Jon Clark - BANNED FOR LIFE · 03-21-2007, 02:54 PM

I would trust AaronM's word over everyone else in this thread....

stickyfingerz · 03-21-2007, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

The rule to date has always been one form of photo ID, with the recent specification that it be a government issued ID such as a Drivers License, Passport, etc.

I was told the industry has been asking for a second form of ID (Social Security card, etc), in order to double check the name on the ID.

A good practice is to have the first photo and the first frame of video be of the model/performer holding the ID next to their face (with video, zoom in on the ID so that you can see the ID number and face clearly - I usually ask the performer if that is really them in the photo, and if they are over 18 as well).

An equally important issue, perhaps more important (since its hard to imagine the government getting too upset about an extra ID), is that I have seen many photographers include the 2257 info on their model release.

As I understand it, these should be two seperate documents. The 2257 should have only the info required by 2257, and should be stored away from any other documents (model releases, AIM test results, etc).

ADG Webmaster

Very similar to what we do ADG.

MaDalton · 03-21-2007, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chadknowslaw

It is amazing how many different views can come from one small topic!

2257 has not been litigated, so no judge has interpreted the law, leaving lawyers and pseudo-lawyers to guess how the law may or may not be interpreted!

Here is one section that pertains to this topic:

§ 75.2 Maintenance of records.

(a) Any producer of any book, magazine, periodical, film, videotape, digitally- or computer-manipulated image, digital image, picture, or other matter ....that contains one or more visual depictions of an actual human being engaged in actual sexually explicit conduct made after July 3, 1995 shall, for each performer portrayed in such visual depiction, create and maintain records containing the following:

(1) The legal name and date of birth of each performer, obtained by the producer's examination of a picture identification card. For any performer portrayed in such a depiction made after July 3, 1995, the records shall also include a legible copy of the identification document examined and, if that document does not contain a recent and recognizable picture of the performer, a legible copy of a picture identification card.

What hangs people up, lawyers and well-intentioned GFY'ers, are the words "A" and "THE" when referring to a photo ID. Some want to interpret this SO LITERALLY that they believe it means there must be ONE, and ONLY ONE, picture identification card.

Believing that one and only one ID may be kept in 2257 records is nonsense. The regulation section I included above even refers to a second form of ID if the first does not have a recent picture.

One government issued ID is required. Getting 2 is just covering your ass and there is nothing wrong with keeping copies of 2 ID's in your records. I am so 150% certain that I am right on this that I make this guarantee--

I will provide full legal defense, or pay the attorney of your choice, for anyone who is indicted solely for having 2 model ID's in their records instead of 1.
I am that sure it will never happen.

The easiest way to get a fake ID to drink in a bar is to get an older brother or sister's ID. Bouncers know this, so when they have someone that looks young a good bouncer will ask for another form of ID--like a credit card. The older sibling might give up the driver's license for a night but rarely would give Junior a second ID or credit card to boot. The easiest way to get a fake ID to make some money getting naked is to get an older sibling's ID. If you deal with young models, demand to see at least 2 forms of ID. You will not get in trouble for asking for 2 forms of ID. You will get in trouble for shooting an underage model. I would think producers are at least as smart as the guys holding the door at nightclubs.

that's why you are my lawyer - a voice of reason

and i hope the sightseeing trip is still on

AaronM · 03-21-2007, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

Even if you wanted to go with that interpretation, nobody is saying you have to keep the second ID with your primary 2257 records. Put it somewhere else.

BINGO!

Quentin · 03-21-2007, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chadknowslaw

It is amazing how many different views can come from one small topic!

2257 has not been litigated, so no judge has interpreted the law, leaving lawyers and pseudo-lawyers to guess how the law may or may not be interpreted!

This is a very good point - although I should hope lawyers are making an argument as to what the interpretation should be, as opposed to guessing what it might be.... right?

Otherwise, what do we pay you guys for?

I'm kidding, of course - but I do hope that it's not the case that 'my guess is as good as yours' with regards to existing statutory definitions, and how such might be applied to the same terms within the context of 2257 and the related CFRs.

- Q.

chadknowslaw · 03-21-2007, 03:44 PM

Exactly right Quentin!

I am giving my educated and informed opinion, tainted with a dose of real life experiences and 4 years as an elected prosecutor.

Anyone that tries to push forward the notion that a producer with 2 forms of ID in his 2257 records will be arrested, charged, and imprisoned should be writing scary stories for movies, because that will not happen in real life. Someone can scream at me all day long that "A" means "one" but I guaran-damn-tee that not even the most vile, spiteful, god-fearing, porn-hating, right-wing nut job prosecutor will indict a porn producer and then try convince a jury that there was some sort of a crime committed because the producer had 2 forms of ID in his records.

I just cannot imagine a prosecutor, in front of a jury of people that really do not to be on jury duty, telling them that they need to spend the next 4 days of their lives doing civic duty to determine if 2 forms of ID in records is a federal crime when the law says "A" and "the" ID, which must mean only 1. Juries are usually intelligent creatures, and if they catch a hint that the charges are bogus, they will acquit. Federal prosecutors know this, and they also know that federal judges do not like courtroom time wasted on frivolous crap.

But then some people really need an active fantasy life to make theirs more interesting, and some lawyers want to scare you so badly that you retain them 24 hours a day just to make sure you aren't arrested and thrown into jail for jaywalking across the street at IHOP.

Jim_Gunn · 03-21-2007, 03:52 PM

Aaron is right on in this thread as always and Chad too. It's always good to discuss these issues, but at least read the law for yourself for crying out loud.

Quentin · 03-21-2007, 04:05 PM

Chad - will you be at the upcoming Phoenix Forum? If so, I'd love to sit down for a chat, if you have the time for one.

BTW, forgive me if we've already met and I'm just spacing it out; experience suggests that memory for names/faces is not my strong suit.

- Q.

AaronM · 03-21-2007, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quentin

Chad - will you be at the upcoming Phoenix Forum? If so, I'd love to sit down for a chat, if you have the time for one.

BTW, forgive me if we've already met and I'm just spacing it out; experience suggests that memory for names/faces is not my strong suit.

- Q.

He's mine! I saw him first.

stickyfingerz · 03-21-2007, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

that's why you are my lawyer - a voice of reason

and i hope the sightseeing trip is still on

Well we have that in common at least lol.

MaDalton · 03-21-2007, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronM

He's mine! I saw him first.

you're wrong - i already have a date with him

mikesouth · 03-21-2007, 04:12 PM

ONE US Issued ID (federal or State)

period

Quentin · 03-21-2007, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronM

He's mine! I saw him first.

I'll take my place in line..... does Chad carry around one of those delicatessen "Take Number For Service" dispensers, by any chance?

- Q.

AaronM · 03-21-2007, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

you're wrong - i already have a date with him

I allowed that because I know I'm a better cuddler than you are. You are no threat to me...Now Quentin on the other hand...He has a mean cuddle from what I've heard over the years.

chadknowslaw · 03-21-2007, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quentin

Chad - will you be at the upcoming Phoenix Forum? If so, I'd love to sit down for a chat, if you have the time for one.

BTW, forgive me if we've already met and I'm just spacing it out; experience suggests that memory for names/faces is not my strong suit.

- Q.

I will be there; grab me in the courtyard and I would be glad to chat. For some reason I was passed over for the legal panel this year--for the first time in years. Could be that I am too outspoken and actually willing to give real advice when I am on a panel. Panelists are probably not allowed to give advice or speak contrary to pre-conceived policies, they are only supposed to promote their own programs.

03-21-2007, 12:49 PM	#1
BOSS1 Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Montreal / Sparta Posts: 4,331	For 2257 the model MUST have 2 ids? Or is the picture of her holding just one ok ?

03-21-2007, 01:07 PM	#2
thehand 235 Pound Gorilla Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Valhalla Posts: 3,467	2 government issued ID's. __________________ Tim Siner Who the Fu#k is TimSiner?

03-21-2007, 01:38 PM	#15
jact Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Oakville, Canada Posts: 9,134	Truly amazing how stupid some people are. Hey, let's take a chance with our freedom, let's take legal advice from GFY! Grab a clue at 7/11. PS: Aaron, don't bother trying to educate them, "experts" like bossku69 have spoken... __________________ Free agent

03-21-2007, 01:44 PM	#19
jact Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Oakville, Canada Posts: 9,134	THIS JUST IN! New law just passed! Models need 473 pieces of gov't issued ID, all valid, all with photos. __________________ Free agent

03-21-2007, 02:06 PM	#29
Quentin Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,280	From the electronic Code of Federal Regulations as provided by gpoaccess.gov, with emphasis added: +++++ § 75.2 Maintenance of records. (a) Any producer of any book, magazine, periodical, film, videotape, digitally- or computer-manipulated image, digital image, picture, or other matter that contains a depiction of an actual human being engaged in actual sexually explicit conduct that is produced in whole or in part with materials that have been mailed or shipped in interstate or foreign commerce, or is shipped or transported or is intended for shipment or transportation in interstate or foreign commerce and that contains one or more visual depictions of an actual human being engaged in actual sexually explicit conduct made after July 3, 1995 shall, for each performer portrayed in such visual depiction, create and maintain records containing the following: (1) The legal name and date of birth of each performer, obtained by the producer's examination of a picture identification card. For any performer portrayed in such a depiction made after July 3, 1995, the records shall also include a legible copy of the identification document examined and, if that document does not contain a recent and recognizable picture of the performer, a legible copy of a picture identification card.... ++++ This information is "current"..... but the regulations are due for a change, following the passage of the Adam Walsh Act last July. Actually, they literally are overdue for a change - the Attorney General was supposed to have issued new regulations for review/public comment in January. The AG is also supposed to issue regulations regarding the new section 2257A this month... I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that to happen in the next 10 days, either. - Q. __________________ Q. Boyer

03-21-2007, 01:23 PM	#4
stickyfingerz Doin fine Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 24,984	unless its been changed only 1 is required but 2 is ideal.

03-21-2007, 01:33 PM	#10
AaronM Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: ┌∩┐ ◣_◢ ┌∩┐ Posts: 46,909	On Thu Mar 08 07:41:11 PST 2007 To All Our Valued Photographers, We have revised our forms to be used in association with all our future shoots. Attached is our current 2257 Compliance Form, Model Release, Photographer Agreement and Model Bio. Please take a moment to print these out and review them prior to any scheduled shoots in case you have any questions. The main difference on the 2257 form is that we are now requiring only one form of identification. Our lawyer has advised us that only one Government Issued Id is required and that including more than one ID in 2257 records may actually violate the provision which requires that all other non-required records be kept separate from 2257 records §75.2(e). In addition, asking for a second ID may result in inconsistencies between the two IDs. Please keep in mind that a clear, good-quality photocopy of the ID must be attached to the form and the photocopy must be signed in ink by the Model (If the ID does not contain a recent and recognizable picture of the Model, only a Driver's License, State ID Card or Military ID will be acceptable for U.S. Models and only a passport will be acceptable for foreign Models). Also, please make a mental note to check if the Models have filled in their Maiden name on the 2257 form if applicable as a good percentage of these Models have been or are married. Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns with these new forms. _________________________________________ On Thu Mar 08 09:08:59 PST 2007 I've been wondering when somebody was going to do their 2257 this way. The secondary piece of I.D. has never been required and maintaining the two I.D.'s together has been frowned on since day one. You are the first clients I have had do this. It's nice to see somebody who is trying to pay attention to the law for once. Aaron ________________________________________ On Thu Mar 08 09:22:06 PST 2007 We have been wondering if anyone else is using it. You are right, the second ID was just adopted by the Adult Industry for some reason. I never knew until our lawyer pointed it out when I questioned him on the new forms, but apparently you did. hehe And you know more about 2257 than most so it is nice to know that we are covering each other's asses here. Have a good one and see you in Phoenix I hope.

03-21-2007, 01:49 PM	#22
BOSS1 Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Montreal / Sparta Posts: 4,331	Thanks Aron, I just came here to double check since my content provider is a well known reliable one... So when I shoot I will keep it to 1 ID in the pic of the model. (I hope I got it right) Ihave a meeting with an industry lawyer on monday so hopefully he will clear everything up for me.... Once again.. thanks for the help

03-21-2007, 02:04 PM	#27
Matt 26z So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: ¤ª"˜¨๑۩۞۩๑¨˜"ª¤ Posts: 18,481	They only need one ID to verify the model during a 2257 records check, so that's all they require. Any documentation beyond that is for your own standards of security. The FBI agent had said you won't get into trouble for having too much documentation. There are of course those who say it's a conspiracy and the DoJ will prosecute for having one extra piece of paper.

03-21-2007, 02:05 PM	#28
stickyfingerz Doin fine Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 24,984	Talked to my lawyer. He advised me that 2 would not be a problem.

03-21-2007, 02:16 PM	#30
amacontent STANLEY CUP CHAMPION ! Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 12,884	Law is simple.. 1 Government issued picture ID a- passport b- drivers license c- military ID d- state Identification card 2- you are to INSPECT a 2nd ID You need keep on 1 file only 1 id. __________________ Joe Loughlin [email protected] TEAM- joeloughlin. Telegram - AMA_JOE https://www.amaproduction.com

03-21-2007, 02:25 PM	#32
czarina Webmaster Extraordinaire Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: A beautiful beach... Posts: 10,748	I read the regulations about a year ago, and it was pretty clear to me that 1 is required, 2 are not only against the rules, but pretty much illegal. Go figure!

03-21-2007, 02:26 PM	#33
chadknowslaw Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Phoenix, Arizona Posts: 343	It is amazing how many different views can come from one small topic! 2257 has not been litigated, so no judge has interpreted the law, leaving lawyers and pseudo-lawyers to guess how the law may or may not be interpreted! Here is one section that pertains to this topic: § 75.2 Maintenance of records. (a) Any producer of any book, magazine, periodical, film, videotape, digitally- or computer-manipulated image, digital image, picture, or other matter ....that contains one or more visual depictions of an actual human being engaged in actual sexually explicit conduct made after July 3, 1995 shall, for each performer portrayed in such visual depiction, create and maintain records containing the following: (1) The legal name and date of birth of each performer, obtained by the producer's examination of a picture identification card. For any performer portrayed in such a depiction made after July 3, 1995, the records shall also include a legible copy of the identification document examined and, if that document does not contain a recent and recognizable picture of the performer, a legible copy of a picture identification card. What hangs people up, lawyers and well-intentioned GFY'ers, are the words "A" and "THE" when referring to a photo ID. Some want to interpret this SO LITERALLY that they believe it means there must be ONE, and ONLY ONE, picture identification card. Believing that one and only one ID may be kept in 2257 records is nonsense. The regulation section I included above even refers to a second form of ID if the first does not have a recent picture. One government issued ID is required. Getting 2 is just covering your ass and there is nothing wrong with keeping copies of 2 ID's in your records. I am so 150% certain that I am right on this that I make this guarantee-- I will provide full legal defense, or pay the attorney of your choice, for anyone who is indicted solely for having 2 model ID's in their records instead of 1. I am that sure it will never happen. The easiest way to get a fake ID to drink in a bar is to get an older brother or sister's ID. Bouncers know this, so when they have someone that looks young a good bouncer will ask for another form of ID--like a credit card. The older sibling might give up the driver's license for a night but rarely would give Junior a second ID or credit card to boot. The easiest way to get a fake ID to make some money getting naked is to get an older sibling's ID. If you deal with young models, demand to see at least 2 forms of ID. You will not get in trouble for asking for 2 forms of ID. You will get in trouble for shooting an underage model. I would think producers are at least as smart as the guys holding the door at nightclubs. __________________ ChadKnowsLaw

03-21-2007, 02:46 PM	#35
AsianDivaGirlsWebDude Purveyor, Fine Asian Porn Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 38,323	The rule to date has always been one form of photo ID, with the recent specification that it be a government issued ID such as a Drivers License, Passport, etc. I was told the industry has been asking for a second form of ID (Social Security card, etc), in order to double check the name on the ID. A good practice is to have the first photo and the first frame of video be of the model/performer holding the ID next to their face (with video, zoom in on the ID so that you can see the ID number and face clearly - I usually ask the performer if that is really them in the photo, and if they are over 18 as well). An equally important issue, perhaps more important (since its hard to imagine the government getting too upset about an extra ID), is that I have seen many photographers include the 2257 info on their model release. As I understand it, these should be two seperate documents. The 2257 should have only the info required by 2257, and should be stored away from any other documents (model releases, AIM test results, etc). ADG Webmaster __________________ Asian Diva Girls - Exclusive Photos and Videos Asian Diva Girls Affiliate Program (50% ccBill Revshare)

03-21-2007, 02:54 PM	#36
Jon Clark - BANNED FOR LIFE North Coast Pimp Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: 304-534-757 Posts: 9,395	I would trust AaronM's word over everyone else in this thread....

03-21-2007, 03:44 PM	#41
chadknowslaw Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Phoenix, Arizona Posts: 343	Exactly right Quentin! I am giving my educated and informed opinion, tainted with a dose of real life experiences and 4 years as an elected prosecutor. Anyone that tries to push forward the notion that a producer with 2 forms of ID in his 2257 records will be arrested, charged, and imprisoned should be writing scary stories for movies, because that will not happen in real life. Someone can scream at me all day long that "A" means "one" but I guaran-damn-tee that not even the most vile, spiteful, god-fearing, porn-hating, right-wing nut job prosecutor will indict a porn producer and then try convince a jury that there was some sort of a crime committed because the producer had 2 forms of ID in his records. I just cannot imagine a prosecutor, in front of a jury of people that really do not to be on jury duty, telling them that they need to spend the next 4 days of their lives doing civic duty to determine if 2 forms of ID in records is a federal crime when the law says "A" and "the" ID, which must mean only 1. Juries are usually intelligent creatures, and if they catch a hint that the charges are bogus, they will acquit. Federal prosecutors know this, and they also know that federal judges do not like courtroom time wasted on frivolous crap. But then some people really need an active fantasy life to make theirs more interesting, and some lawyers want to scare you so badly that you retain them 24 hours a day just to make sure you aren't arrested and thrown into jail for jaywalking across the street at IHOP. __________________ ChadKnowsLaw

03-21-2007, 03:52 PM	#42
Jim_Gunn Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Where The Teens Are Posts: 5,702	Aaron is right on in this thread as always and Chad too. It's always good to discuss these issues, but at least read the law for yourself for crying out loud.

03-21-2007, 04:05 PM	#43
Quentin Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,280	Chad - will you be at the upcoming Phoenix Forum? If so, I'd love to sit down for a chat, if you have the time for one. BTW, forgive me if we've already met and I'm just spacing it out; experience suggests that memory for names/faces is not my strong suit. - Q. __________________ Q. Boyer

03-21-2007, 04:12 PM	#47
mikesouth Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: My High Horse Posts: 6,334	ONE US Issued ID (federal or State) period __________________ Mike South It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.