*** Stats Drama *** - a day of reckoning is coming for all sponsors... - GoFuckYourself.com

xxxjay · 03-01-2007, 01:03 AM

I have added a bunch of server-side tracking to my outgoing links so I will be able to discover the true ratios of what is being sent to sponsors.

Fuck this busting out a calculator to find out my real ratios -- now I?ll know! No matter how I program tries to wash them in 2nd, 3rd, ?qualified? or whatever the fuck they call them?

I?ll know.

I stopped publishing my stats for a while because I believed some sponsors were showing better ratios than they deserved, while other decent sponsors might be getting thrown under the bus.

This is all about to change. I will be collecting the data for the next 30 days and will publish no-holds-barred results at the beginning of next month.

Watch out people.

Jace · 03-01-2007, 01:06 AM

good for you man, I did this a long ass time ago and was shocked at some of the results...I had to drop a few sponsors after I sent 500-1000 clicks and only "8 qualified" showed up in the admin...LOL

XPays · 03-01-2007, 01:06 AM

try it with xpays and we will be the most accurate of all your tests.

Michael O · 03-01-2007, 01:07 AM

Its the only way to do stats.
Some sponsors count 1st page, others "qualified hits" that varies from 2nd page to join page hits.

Counting join page hits is useless but it make the program looks good.

SkeetSkeet · 03-01-2007, 01:07 AM

damn that's fucked up jace

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude · 03-01-2007, 01:07 AM

Will be interesting to see your results...

ADG Webmaster

pocketkangaroo · 03-01-2007, 01:11 AM

Good to hear. I've been doing that for some time now too. It never ceases to amaze me how companies fuck with what constitutes as a click these days.

xxxjay · 03-01-2007, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jace

good for you man, I did this a long ass time ago and was shocked at some of the results...I had to drop a few sponsors after I sent 500-1000 clicks and only "8 qualified" showed up in the admin...LOL

Yep, yep. It's a fucking joke.

I plan to get to the bottom of it.

BT · 03-01-2007, 01:54 AM

Get em Jay!!! I am sorry to read your Cuba trip took a turn for the worst but

it would have been a success with the right guidence. Its run down and that

is an understatement but you rent a house in the coatal places and it can be

worth the trip back in time. Trust me I know I been to jail there and its a

not a place for white boys who don't speak spanish. hehe Anyway, your a

good man and your blog is kick ass!!! BT

Tempest · 03-01-2007, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxxjay

No matter how I program tries to wash them in 2nd, 3rd, “qualified” or whatever the fuck they call them…

the old brain don't work like it used to.. I finally realized that some sponsors are only counting/displaying uniques, but it's uniques sent to ALL their sites... So you could have sent a person to 20 of their sites and it counts as 1 fucking unique.

I've got allmost all my links going thru a script now and I'll be able to count clicks like that as well.. Going to be damn interesting.

xxxjay · 03-01-2007, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tempest

the old brain don't work like it used to.. I finally realized that some sponsors are only counting/displaying uniques, but it's uniques sent to ALL their sites... So you could have sent a person to 20 of their sites and it counts as 1 fucking unique.

I've got allmost all my links going thru a script now and I'll be able to count clicks like that as well.. Going to be damn interesting.

Yep, I have had my programmer work out a lot of the variables like this...even niche tracking. Which is something we found out last month...not all niches are created equal, but that may just be MY traffic.

A click is a click is a click though.

vvq · 03-01-2007, 02:16 AM

it's impossible to know true ratios. plenty of programs "reverse shave". especially with whales. i guess you'll know your exact clickthrus, but that's about it.

PHP-CODER-FOR-HIRE · 03-01-2007, 02:17 AM

It's too bad it has to get to that point. Maybe I should set up a hosted click tracking service for you guys to use. Would anyone use it?

Bozena X · 03-01-2007, 02:19 AM

bookmarked ;)

xxxjay · 03-01-2007, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHP-CODER-FOR-HIRE

It's too bad it has to get to that point. Maybe I should set up a hosted click tracking service for you guys to use. Would anyone use it?

Unless you use your own shit, the service will always be open to corruption. Believe me, the extra click tracking I am doing is not only a pain in the ass, it is also using up a lot of resources on my server.

I wish a standard could be found and stuck to because all of this stats manipulation is "new school shaving" to me.

The Ghost · 03-01-2007, 02:54 AM

Good for you man. There are lots of affiliates that don't understand this. They assume traffic is counted the same by every sponsor program.

VIPimp · 03-01-2007, 02:59 AM

Good... many programs dont show 1st page hits, and some that do dont base their ratios on it. I count and show only 1st page hits.

Juilan · 03-01-2007, 03:54 AM

bookmarked. bring it on

xxxjay · 03-01-2007, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ghost

Good for you man. There are lots of affiliates that don't understand this. They assume traffic is counted the same by every sponsor program.

I've been doing this for a long time. I call the whole stats confusion "new shaving" even though there is nothing new about it. It just seems that programs have gotten worse with time doing it.

xxxjay · 03-01-2007, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VIPimp

Good... many programs dont show 1st page hits, and some that do dont base their ratios on it. I count and show only 1st page hits.

As you should. My ratios are still pretty good with you guys even showing the 1st page raw.

1hoho · 03-01-2007, 04:28 AM

The only way to get an even playing field is for everyone to count first page raw... but then their ratios would be like 1/3k and not 1/200 or whatever... but I totally agree with you, its BS, and many do not even disclose how they count... and yes, there are far too many affiliates who do not realize they are comparing apples to oranges

justsexxx · 03-01-2007, 04:32 AM

I also count my own outgoing traffic with a stats system...Mine is very basic, and probably not working for your amount of traffic

While you(or your pogrammer) is on it...I would advice an GEO IP module...Some sponsors redirect 'foreign' traffic. Better send it to a place where you get actually credit for this 'foreign' traffic...

F U S I O N · 03-01-2007, 05:52 AM

Can't wait to see the results!

Jace · 03-01-2007, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1hoho

The only way to get an even playing field is for everyone to count first page raw... but then their ratios would be like 1/3k and not 1/200 or whatever... but I totally agree with you, its BS, and many do not even disclose how they count... and yes, there are far too many affiliates who do not realize they are comparing apples to oranges

I would much rather see my first page raw clicks than any of that other bullshit sponsor use

when you don't show me first page raw and on, it doesn't allow me to properly track my campaigns and adjust them to sell better, therefor making me AND the sponsor less money

bu((aneer · 03-01-2007, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxxjay

I have added a bunch of server-side tracking to my outgoing links so I will be able to discover the true ratios of what is being sent to sponsors.

What server-side tracking did you use?

Link please..

Nicky · 03-01-2007, 06:55 AM

Will be interesting to see your results for sure, I dont like all this "qualified hit" shit either

Jace · 03-01-2007, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicky

Will be interesting to see your results for sure, I dont like all this "qualified hit" shit either

he mentioned a few times that it is something he had made up on his own

DamageX · 03-01-2007, 07:08 AM

About fucking time someone did this.

r-c-e · 03-01-2007, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ghost

Good for you man. There are lots of affiliates that don't understand this. They assume traffic is counted the same by every sponsor program.

Those people should be flipping burgers.

JFK · 03-01-2007, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxxjay

Yep, yep. It's a fucking joke.

I plan to get to the bottom of it.

looking forward to the results

mpahlca · 03-01-2007, 07:27 AM

I think you will be stunned by the variable nature of it, including the change in what even your own paysites report as your traffic vs what you sent. To me if traffic trading had as bad tracking as paysites no one would have ever traded with scripts.

junkiefred · 03-01-2007, 07:27 AM

I would be interested in seeing how you code for this.
I gave up on looking at stats a long time ago.

In the end it's about how much I'm making, so if program A makes me more than program B, I really don't care what their stats say. The checks at the end of the month are my stats program ;)

Still having accurate stats would help make the decision to change sponsors a lot easiser.

Peaches · 03-01-2007, 07:32 AM

There have been affiliates that have been doing this for at least 8+ years. Like the RSS feeds - some of these same guys have been doing those for 2+ years - they kept quiet about both because they didn't want others to have the same advantages they have ;)

Jay, you know I love you like an old lady loves a studmaster, but don't give the man too many fish. Webmasters need to learn to fish.

Alain DeLarge · 03-01-2007, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peaches

Jay, you know I love you like an old lady loves a studmaster, but don't give the man too many fish. Webmasters need to learn to fish.

Ain't nothing wrong with teaching a man how to successfully fish, is there?

r-c-e · 03-01-2007, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alain DeLarge

Ain't nothing wrong with teaching a man how to successfully fish, is there?

There's only so many fish.

Linkster · 03-01-2007, 07:49 AM

Jay - I know of someone that did this on the tgp side - he showed me the numbers from his program and you will be amazed at your results

- remember that the first response you are going to get from sponsors when you confront them about the difference is that they dont count partial page loads

Shoplifter · 03-01-2007, 08:33 AM

I can't wait to see how the Politburo here will discredit your data.

I did the same thing a long time ago and this is why I run my own paysites now. I got tired of getting my ass shaved.

Bonne Chance.

Ray@TastyDollars · 03-01-2007, 08:38 AM

This thread reminds me of a convo I had about 4 years ago with a program I was pushing.

Me: Hey man, what's up with sales? I'm seeing that my ratios have tripled this month

Program: Yeah, sorry about that. Don't worry, we are working on something that will make your ratios look really good next month.

LOL

Ray

GTS Mark · 03-01-2007, 08:38 AM

Jay don't you send a majority of your traffic to your own program?

DH

DutchTeenCash · 03-01-2007, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael O

Its the only way to do stats.
Some sponsors count 1st page, others "qualified hits" that varies from 2nd page to join page hits.

Counting join page hits is useless but it make the program looks good.

oh yeah - if ppl start publishing join page ratios every program does 1:10 suddenly, 2nd page unique or raw 1st page is all that matters

plus you could send 5k to the 1st page and end up with 2 clicks on the joinpage - so: bookmarked

Dollarmansteve · 03-01-2007, 08:52 AM

Every single webmaster should already be doing this. It is the ONLY way to know what YOUR traffic is worth. The only measure of traffic value that has any validity to an individual webmaster is $ / outbound raw click.

Pete-KT · 03-01-2007, 08:56 AM

SatanCash and MobBucks both track first page click, so what you send is what you see in our stats, None of that bullshit Join Page qualified and make a ratio from that, Our stats are Pure from what you send us.

Peaches · 03-01-2007, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dollarmansteve

Every single webmaster should already be doing this. It is the ONLY way to know what YOUR traffic is worth. The only measure of traffic value that has any validity to an individual webmaster is $ / outbound raw click.

That was my point - just said in a motherly way

jscott · 03-01-2007, 09:22 AM

xxxJay, I love the idea man, if i had time and knew how to do this i would do it always

cant wait to see who is honest........and mostly who is NOT

Trax · 03-01-2007, 09:31 AM

only way to go
looking forward for your internal findings

David - PG · 03-01-2007, 09:49 AM

I remember this thread from a year or two ago where you and I discussed exactly this issue http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...=521956&page=2

I remember back then you weren't too excited about server-side tracking of outgoing links

But it's good to see you changed your mind. Can't wait to see some real results.

xxxjay · 03-01-2007, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bu((aneer

What server-side tracking did you use?

Link please..

I'm not going to say, but it is log based.

xxxjay · 03-01-2007, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrinkingHARDEST

Jay don't you send a majority of your traffic to your own program?

DH

No...I send a good bit though.

MrChips · 03-01-2007, 12:30 PM

Jay - I look forward to seeing your results.
Would you follow any findings through with legal action?

Kevsh · 03-01-2007, 12:37 PM

Looks like a good project but i personally care very little about 1st page/raw/unique etc. etc. etc. and more so, conversion rates - they can be so misleading. The bottom line IMO is money earned vs. money spent, and if you have a firm grasp on that then the rest is just numbers.

I know a lot will disagree but I have no time for micro-analysis - how profitable is site X? That's the knowledge that's gold

03-01-2007, 01:03 AM	#1
xxxjay Tube groupie. Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: LoScandalous, CA Posts: 13,482	* Stats Drama * - a day of reckoning is coming for all sponsors... I have added a bunch of server-side tracking to my outgoing links so I will be able to discover the true ratios of what is being sent to sponsors. Fuck this busting out a calculator to find out my real ratios -- now I?ll know! No matter how I program tries to wash them in 2nd, 3rd, ?qualified? or whatever the fuck they call them? I?ll know. I stopped publishing my stats for a while because I believed some sponsors were showing better ratios than they deserved, while other decent sponsors might be getting thrown under the bus. This is all about to change. I will be collecting the data for the next 30 days and will publish no-holds-barred results at the beginning of next month. Watch out people. __________________ http://donttellmehowtoruinmylife.com/ - http://www.jmdigitalmarketing.com/my...s-and-reviews/ - http://www.wouldyouhitit.org - http://shinyobjectreviews.com/

03-01-2007, 01:06 AM	#3
XPays Team Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: Inside the most accurately counting and reporting affiliate system in the world at XPays.com Posts: 13,002	try it with xpays and we will be the most accurate of all your tests. __________________ InterNext Expo Domain Auction Live Now thru Feb 5 HuntingMoon GFY Domains Marketplace is LIVE XPays always pays! Top Site: * RealJasmine.com * + HotelHeiress® with The Paris Hilton Sex Video Insert the HotelHeiress® HD FEED into your members areas XPin.com Opening for Pin Partners Soonish Mainstream Offers For Emailers and DomainersNONADULT.COM Like Us!

03-01-2007, 01:07 AM	#4
Michael O More Cowbell Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Nakhom Nowhere Posts: 10,607	Its the only way to do stats. Some sponsors count 1st page, others "qualified hits" that varies from 2nd page to join page hits. Counting join page hits is useless but it make the program looks good. __________________ Truth Teller

03-01-2007, 01:07 AM	#5
SkeetSkeet Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: StarlightBucks ! Posts: 5,404	damn that's fucked up jace __________________ ICQ 283633188

03-01-2007, 01:07 AM	#6
AsianDivaGirlsWebDude Purveyor, Fine Asian Porn Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 38,323	Will be interesting to see your results... ADG Webmaster __________________ Asian Diva Girls - Exclusive Photos and Videos Asian Diva Girls Affiliate Program (50% ccBill Revshare)

03-01-2007, 01:06 AM	#2
Jace FBOP Class Of 2013 Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: bumfuck, ky Posts: 35,562	good for you man, I did this a long ass time ago and was shocked at some of the results...I had to drop a few sponsors after I sent 500-1000 clicks and only "8 qualified" showed up in the admin...LOL

03-01-2007, 01:11 AM	#7
pocketkangaroo Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 8,452	Good to hear. I've been doing that for some time now too. It never ceases to amaze me how companies fuck with what constitutes as a click these days.

03-01-2007, 01:54 AM	#9
BT Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Ft liquordale FL Posts: 6,481	Get em Jay!!! I am sorry to read your Cuba trip took a turn for the worst but it would have been a success with the right guidence. Its run down and that is an understatement but you rent a house in the coatal places and it can be worth the trip back in time. Trust me I know I been to jail there and its a not a place for white boys who don't speak spanish. hehe Anyway, your a good man and your blog is kick ass!!! BT __________________ IS Prime Hosting Bald Head Shine "BT" The American Dream, baby! " THE HOST WITH THE MOST!" My ICQ 122994792

03-01-2007, 02:16 AM	#12
vvq Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: TrafficGigolos.com Posts: 2,732	it's impossible to know true ratios. plenty of programs "reverse shave". especially with whales. i guess you'll know your exact clickthrus, but that's about it. __________________ SQUIRTING - LESBIAN SPANKING - TITTY FUCKING - WET PANTIES - MORE We offer free hosting, your own designer (works for free), and unsaturated content for gallery and free site submitters. Just contact me! E-mail: [email protected]

03-01-2007, 02:17 AM	#13
PHP-CODER-FOR-HIRE Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,090	It's too bad it has to get to that point. Maybe I should set up a hosted click tracking service for you guys to use. Would anyone use it? __________________ Hire a PHP Coder

03-01-2007, 02:19 AM	#14
Bozena X Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: West Cost Posts: 1,139	bookmarked ;)

03-01-2007, 02:54 AM	#16
The Ghost IslandDollars.com Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Icq: 176176 Posts: 12,188	Good for you man. There are lots of affiliates that don't understand this. They assume traffic is counted the same by every sponsor program. __________________ ISLAND DOLLARS 1000's of Exclusive TS scenes / Constant Updates Best TS Network your surfers will ever join

03-01-2007, 02:59 AM	#17
VIPimp Marina WILL have my babies! Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 9,234	Good... many programs dont show 1st page hits, and some that do dont base their ratios on it. I count and show only 1st page hits.

03-01-2007, 03:54 AM	#18
Juilan Sultan of Swing Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: XXXodus Posts: 15,141	bookmarked. bring it on __________________ My Best Converting VOD Sponsor \|

03-01-2007, 04:28 AM	#21
1hoho Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 225	The only way to get an even playing field is for everyone to count first page raw... but then their ratios would be like 1/3k and not 1/200 or whatever... but I totally agree with you, its BS, and many do not even disclose how they count... and yes, there are far too many affiliates who do not realize they are comparing apples to oranges __________________ exclusive niched sites - VertigoVixens StockingHo AllExtremeAnal VulvaPalooza VertigoCash ICQ 197376798

03-01-2007, 04:32 AM	#22
justsexxx Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 13,723	I also count my own outgoing traffic with a stats system...Mine is very basic, and probably not working for your amount of traffic While you(or your pogrammer) is on it...I would advice an GEO IP module...Some sponsors redirect 'foreign' traffic. Better send it to a place where you get actually credit for this 'foreign' traffic... __________________ Questions? ICQ: 125184542

03-01-2007, 05:52 AM	#23
F U S I O N Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,898	Can't wait to see the results!

03-01-2007, 06:55 AM	#26
Nicky Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sweden Posts: 30,069	Will be interesting to see your results for sure, I dont like all this "qualified hit" shit either __________________ gfynicky @ gmail.com

03-01-2007, 07:08 AM	#28
DamageX Marketing & Strategy Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Former nomad Posts: 14,293	About fucking time someone did this. __________________ Whitehat is for chumps If you don't do it, somebody else will - true story!

03-01-2007, 07:27 AM	#31
mpahlca Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Vancouver Posts: 1,821	I think you will be stunned by the variable nature of it, including the change in what even your own paysites report as your traffic vs what you sent. To me if traffic trading had as bad tracking as paysites no one would have ever traded with scripts. __________________ I could give two shits wether you read this sig or not.

03-01-2007, 07:27 AM	#32
junkiefred Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 36	I would be interested in seeing how you code for this. I gave up on looking at stats a long time ago. In the end it's about how much I'm making, so if program A makes me more than program B, I really don't care what their stats say. The checks at the end of the month are my stats program ;) Still having accurate stats would help make the decision to change sponsors a lot easiser.

03-01-2007, 07:32 AM	#33
Peaches Old broad Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Away Posts: 13,933	There have been affiliates that have been doing this for at least 8+ years. Like the RSS feeds - some of these same guys have been doing those for 2+ years - they kept quiet about both because they didn't want others to have the same advantages they have ;) Jay, you know I love you like an old lady loves a studmaster, but don't give the man too many fish. Webmasters need to learn to fish.

03-01-2007, 07:49 AM	#36
Linkster Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: DeltaHell Posts: 3,216	Jay - I know of someone that did this on the tgp side - he showed me the numbers from his program and you will be amazed at your results - remember that the first response you are going to get from sponsors when you confront them about the difference is that they dont count partial page loads __________________ Porn Links Crak for your bank account - Get Addicted FREE LIVE CAM SHOWS

03-01-2007, 08:33 AM	#37
Shoplifter Richest man in Babylon Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Posts: 10,002 Posts: 5,724	I can't wait to see how the Politburo here will discredit your data. I did the same thing a long time ago and this is why I run my own paysites now. I got tired of getting my ass shaved. Bonne Chance.

03-01-2007, 08:38 AM	#38
Ray@TastyDollars www.TastyDollars.com Join Date: May 2002 Location: Montreal Posts: 6,797	This thread reminds me of a convo I had about 4 years ago with a program I was pushing. Me: Hey man, what's up with sales? I'm seeing that my ratios have tripled this month Program: Yeah, sorry about that. Don't worry, we are working on something that will make your ratios look really good next month. LOL Ray __________________ The nets best interracial and cuckold site The nets hottest teen site ICQ me: 161 375 873

03-01-2007, 08:38 AM	#39
GTS Mark Vrume Mark Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 20,912	Jay don't you send a majority of your traffic to your own program? DH

03-01-2007, 08:52 AM	#41
Dollarmansteve Confirmed User Join Date: May 2005 Location: T.O. Posts: 2,849	Every single webmaster should already be doing this. It is the ONLY way to know what YOUR traffic is worth. The only measure of traffic value that has any validity to an individual webmaster is $ / outbound raw click. __________________ I died.

03-01-2007, 08:56 AM	#42
Pete-KT Workin With The Devil Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: West Bloomfield, MI Posts: 51,532	SatanCash and MobBucks both track first page click, so what you send is what you see in our stats, None of that bullshit Join Page qualified and make a ratio from that, Our stats are Pure from what you send us.

03-01-2007, 09:22 AM	#44
jscott So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Taipei Posts: 25,198	xxxJay, I love the idea man, if i had time and knew how to do this i would do it always cant wait to see who is honest........and mostly who is NOT

03-01-2007, 09:31 AM	#45
Trax [----------------------] Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 14,486	only way to go looking forward for your internal findings

03-01-2007, 09:49 AM	#46
David - PG Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 767	I remember this thread from a year or two ago where you and I discussed exactly this issue http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...=521956&page=2 I remember back then you weren't too excited about server-side tracking of outgoing links But it's good to see you changed your mind. Can't wait to see some real results. __________________ perfectgonzo.com

03-01-2007, 12:30 PM	#49
MrChips Confirmed User Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1,504	Jay - I look forward to seeing your results. Would you follow any findings through with legal action?

03-01-2007, 12:37 PM	#50
Kevsh Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: TO Posts: 8,619	Looks like a good project but i personally care very little about 1st page/raw/unique etc. etc. etc. and more so, conversion rates - they can be so misleading. The bottom line IMO is money earned vs. money spent, and if you have a firm grasp on that then the rest is just numbers. I know a lot will disagree but I have no time for micro-analysis - how profitable is site X? That's the knowledge that's gold