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Old 01-25-2007, 02:07 PM   #101
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100..........how can you tell a politician is Lying ?
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Old 01-25-2007, 02:07 PM   #102
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The American economy is the envy of the world. People like Webby, who hates everything about America, spread misinformation, BS, and out and out lies. It fits his and their agenda. America is not in trouble economically and has carried greater debt (realitively speaking) in past history than what it is carrying now. America is the richest, most powerful, most influential country the world has ever known and will certainly remain so for the life time of any individual that is currently alive.


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Old 01-25-2007, 02:11 PM   #103
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Good God man, what the hell are you on?
Every statement is true, thus I am "on" truth. If any country is richer, more powerful, or more influential or ever has been please name one.
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Old 01-25-2007, 02:13 PM   #104
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What does that have to do with employment and being able to spend money to buy things?
PK.. What sustains any economy??

Because there is an inordinate ability to consume till ya drop and where this is based on claims of "employment" and purchasing ability, does not exactly relate to some "good life" scenario - at least in this instance.

It's fine on the short term as long as there is an underlying core of "wealth" or the prospect of earning that wealth. Reality is, overall, that employment rate does very little for USA Inc (but certainly helpful for folks earning).

Employment is predominately in domestic service industries, not in any wealth-creating manufacturing scenarios. Only 10% of the total of all US economic activity relates to manufacturing. This, in turn, means there is little prospect of recovering from the largest debt ever by exporting product and earning "real money".

At the same time - and on an individual basis, folks are spending 160% of their wage packets in malls. Again - unsustainable and stepping into a sea awash in personal debt. On a national level it means more baggage/debt when that imported consumption has to be paid by weak dollar values.

Spending ability is eventually controlled by an ability to pay, both on a national and personal level. It starts with more loans and, least in my 2 cents, takes longer for the rot to set in than ya would expect. OIU's for these loans are already being issued at unprecendented levels by the Fed (and card companies). Along with that are the credit cards being maxed (they aleady are), both on personal/national levels - the exuberance starts to cool.

This is not some scenario involving much more than common sense - it existed since whenever. When it reaches a stage of borrowing massive amounts from "third world countries" to hopefully sustain economic activity - there sure is a problem.

Bet ya... 12 months from now we will see a deterioration, tho may still then be a minor one in relation to things yet to come. The dollar will be even weaker, the loans bigger - and, like all good cocktail parties, folks deep in card debt will be proclaiming how much equity they have in their homes
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Old 01-25-2007, 02:13 PM   #105
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Every statement is true, thus I am "on" truth. If any country is richer, more powerful, or more influential or ever has been please name one.


I think Webby already covered that, maybe you were not paying attention
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Old 01-25-2007, 02:16 PM   #106
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Every statement is true, thus I am "on" truth. If any country is richer, more powerful, or more influential or ever has been please name one.
Oh, you forgot to mention the most respected country in the world as well
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Old 01-25-2007, 02:21 PM   #107
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Maybe tell that to your republicans who have been making it easier, and giving tax breaks to big biz, to move to these countries.

Fuck man you are so simple thinking. Then again that's why you support the current simple fool in office.

I hope to god you don't and will never have any kids. Your breeding line needs to be stopped NOW!
Rofl your hate for America blinds you completely......
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Old 01-25-2007, 02:24 PM   #108
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I think Webby already covered that, maybe you were not paying attention
No, no he has not, because he cannot. BTW Webby is a broke dick that lives in a third world country, who hustles tourists for money, and whose life revolves around a BB bashing everything American with misinformation, BS and lies. One reason he hates America is because he cannot legally enter America and does not have the money to enter illegally. I have things to do so later.
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Old 01-25-2007, 02:31 PM   #109
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No, no he has not, because he cannot. BTW Webby is a broke dick that lives in a third world country, who hustles tourists for money, and whose life revolves around a BB bashing everything American with misinformation, BS and lies. One reason he hates America is because he cannot legally enter America and does not have the money to enter illegally. I have things to do so later.
Oh dear....

Is it that you just have a total inability to use they only brain cell you were blessed with?

OK.. I know you have to see a "contest" even if it has no foundation and hopefully you have a smile on your face - if not, you are insane.

There is nothing worse than total idiots warped up in their pathetic domestic/patriotic agendas to give a bad impression of any country - you are one of these people OldSexyPants. Fortunately, I know othewise about the people of the US - you do not represent them for one second.
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Old 01-25-2007, 02:38 PM   #110
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I think Webby already covered that, maybe you were not paying attention
I think I did too - several times But it can take a while to sink in and make allowance for those with reading disabilities and logic disfunctions
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Old 01-25-2007, 02:59 PM   #111
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I think I did too - several times But it can take a while to sink in and make allowance for those with reading disabilities and logic disfunctions

I'm sure he will be back with something witty to say
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Old 01-25-2007, 09:00 PM   #112
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Rofl your hate for America blinds you completely......
You have gone over the line here. I love my country, and that's why it pisses me off to see this administration fuck it up. We used to be the most respected country in the world. Until Iraq.

Having lived thru 9-11 personally, and seeing Bush use it to start the war, only neo cons wanted, sickens me to the core. He might as well have taken a shit on the ground zero site, at least that you could clean up.

Daily they shit on the constitution, and little brains like you go right along with it.

You are the one who doesn't understand that there is a world outside our borders. I have travelled the world, and can say for a fact, that this is the best country on the planet. Can you? My bet is you have probably never been on a plane our outside your state.

That's the only way to explain your very simple views. Just like our president that had only been to Mexico, before taking office. How in the world an adult with his means, never took it upon himself to maybe see other cultures, is beyond me.

The one great thing about this country, is that we get a chance to right the ship after 8 years. It started with the last election, and will continue in 2008.
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Old 01-25-2007, 09:06 PM   #113
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Rofl your hate for America blinds you completely......
PS. Don't ever question my patriotism again. I and my family were directly affected by 9-11. You have no clue what that is like, and I hope you never do. To this day, I get information every three months, letting me know of the potential health problems I can expect from my proximity to the WTC. I don't really care so much for me, but I worry about my 6 yr old son.

So take a look in the mirror, and see who is unpatriotic.
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Old 01-25-2007, 09:10 PM   #114
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PS. Don't ever question my patriotism again. I and my family were directly affected by 9-11. You have no clue what that is like, and I hope you never do. To this day, I get information every three months, letting me know of the potential health problems I can expect from my proximity to the WTC. I don't really care so much for me, but I worry about my 6 yr old son.

So take a look in the mirror, and see who is unpatriotic.
I dont have to question shit. You answer that question with every post you make. You think you were the only one affected by 911 now?
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Old 01-25-2007, 09:13 PM   #115
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You have gone over the line here. I love my country, and that's why it pisses me off to see this administration fuck it up. We used to be the most respected country in the world. Until Iraq.

Having lived thru 9-11 personally, and seeing Bush use it to start the war, only neo cons wanted, sickens me to the core. He might as well have taken a shit on the ground zero site, at least that you could clean up.

Daily they shit on the constitution, and little brains like you go right along with it.

You are the one who doesn't understand that there is a world outside our borders. I have travelled the world, and can say for a fact, that this is the best country on the planet. Can you? My bet is you have probably never been on a plane our outside your state.

That's the only way to explain your very simple views. Just like our president that had only been to Mexico, before taking office. How in the world an adult with his means, never took it upon himself to maybe see other cultures, is beyond me.

The one great thing about this country, is that we get a chance to right the ship after 8 years. It started with the last election, and will continue in 2008.
Your use of particular phrases is very telling. And your short term memory is also. Seems to me there was some sort of vote back then, and I dont recall there being any sort of majority against going into Iraq. I love how you let all your favorite liberal media sources twist how history really went weeee!
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Old 01-25-2007, 09:16 PM   #116
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I dont have to question shit. You answer that question with every post you make. You think you were the only one affected by 911 now?
Did I say I was the only one? No.
What did you watch it on CNN, or don't you get cable in the trailer park ?

I'm just responding to you calling out my love for my country.

I just feel sorry for your total lack of understanding of complicated issues. It's sad really.

You didn't respond to ever travelling outside of Hicksville.Been outside the county line?
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Old 01-25-2007, 09:18 PM   #117
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Your use of particular phrases is very telling. And your short term memory is also. Seems to me there was some sort of vote back then, and I dont recall there being any sort of majority against going into Iraq. I love how you let all your favorite liberal media sources twist how history really went weeee!
It's hard to vote when correctly when the information that the administration gives you is total lies. Maybe the information you get from Fox isn't fair and balanced....ya think?
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Old 01-25-2007, 09:19 PM   #118
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Your use of particular phrases is very telling.
Coming from Ryan, that is classic

Ever considered being more constructive and dumping the charade??

It never was a simplified contest - everything from economics to Iraq has/will have effects on many people - and cost a few their lives. Degrading this to a base level on a chatboard says a lot, much of which is not admirable.
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Old 01-25-2007, 09:20 PM   #119
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Btw Im in Japan for a good solid month out of each year. Im out of state once a month at least. I vist Canada, and Mexico often. Ill be in Costa Rica next month, and Uruguay within the next 2 months. Ill be in Amsterdam for the next show too. Po wittle me has neva been away from home...
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Old 01-25-2007, 09:22 PM   #120
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Hahahahahah I just went to your site.

"How are your prices so low?
Volume"

hahahahahah

You are like the walmart of encoding

Better get that christmas special off that front page too, it's almost Feb.
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Old 01-25-2007, 09:22 PM   #121
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It's hard to vote when correctly when the information that the administration gives you is total lies. Maybe the information you get from Fox isn't fair and balanced....ya think?
Oh so you are saying no other nations were in agreement with us then right?.....
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Old 01-25-2007, 09:23 PM   #122
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Hahahahahah I just went to your site.

"How are your prices so low?
Volume"

hahahahahah

You are like the walmart of encoding

Better get that christmas special off that front page too, it's almost Feb.
Just an fyi I mostly have contracts with larger programs and get little business due to the site. What site do you have again? Is this going to be one of those little pissing matches on who has what now? lmao
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Old 01-25-2007, 09:24 PM   #123
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Btw Im in Japan for a good solid month out of each year. Im out of state once a month at least. I vist Canada, and Mexico often. Ill be in Costa Rica next month, and Uruguay within the next 2 months. Ill be in Amsterdam for the next show too. Po wittle me has neva been away from home...
*lol* OK then....

Nice to see you consider visits to a porn conference being "out of the country" - I'd never thought of that one ;-) To put it another way, how many years have you lived outside the US in other countries to even being to assemble any clue of other cultures?
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Old 01-25-2007, 09:27 PM   #124
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Just an fyi I mostly have contracts with larger programs and get little business due to the site. What site do you have again? Is this going to be one of those little pissing matches on who has what now? lmao
I would never, and I mean never post my site here. I have more respect for my business than that.

Like I said before, I come here just to piss you off now. It's a fun way to vent at the end of the day. For some reason, you complete me.
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Old 01-25-2007, 09:28 PM   #125
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*lol* OK then....

Nice to see you consider visits to a porn conference being "out of the country" - I'd never thought of that one ;-) To put it another way, how many years have you lived outside the US in other countries to even being to assemble any clue of other cultures?
Exactly. Disneyworld and Epcot don't count.
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Old 01-25-2007, 09:29 PM   #126
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*lol* OK then....

Nice to see you consider visits to a porn conference being "out of the country" - I'd never thought of that one ;-) To put it another way, how many years have you lived outside the US in other countries to even being to assemble any clue of other cultures?
Umm Japan isnt for a porn conference. I live there 1 month out of each year. Uruguay also isnt for a porn conference. Neither was Mexico. Canada is for the Toronto show but I visit friends up in Winnipeg once a year or so. Ill be in Japan in July this year. I got Married in Japan for that matter.
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Old 01-25-2007, 09:30 PM   #127
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Exactly. Disneyworld and Epcot don't count.

Haha you are a joke. Havent been to Disney world since I was 12. So 22 years ago or so. Post your site skippy. You dont have one is my guess.
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Old 01-25-2007, 09:31 PM   #128
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Hey Sticky. How do you have time for your huge biz, when you have almost 10,000 posts in a little over a year.
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Old 01-25-2007, 09:33 PM   #129
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Haha you are a joke. Havent been to Disney world since I was 12. So 22 years ago or so. Post your site skippy. You dont have one is my guess.
Never gonna happen. My clients wouldn't be real happy having my site coming up in search engines from GFY.

But you keep it up at $35 an hour. I wouldn't roll out of bed and fart for that.
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Old 01-25-2007, 09:35 PM   #130
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Hey Sticky. How do you have time for your huge biz, when you have almost 10,000 posts in a little over a year.
Lets see I work with video... do you know what rendering is??
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Old 01-25-2007, 09:35 PM   #131
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Umm Japan isnt for a porn conference. I live there 1 month out of each year. Uruguay also isnt for a porn conference. Neither was Mexico. Canada is for the Toronto show but I visit friends up in Winnipeg once a year or so. Ill be in Japan in July this year. I got Married in Japan for that matter.
I hear ya man!

So they are not all porn conferences...

It's very quiet in here .... so, appears you have never actually "lived" elsewhere.... but, far be it for me to assume ;-)
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Old 01-25-2007, 09:37 PM   #132
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I hear ya man!

So they are not all porn conferences...

It's very quiet in here .... so, appears you have never actually "lived" elsewhere.... but, far be it for me to assume ;-)
Right Im not a single guy. I have a family. So why would I up and move them out of the country? lol My kids all have dual citizenship till they are 25. 1 month is long enough for me outside the U.S. I am getting an apartment in Uruguay though, but Ill only be there part of the year on and off. Will that count for you? lol
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Old 01-25-2007, 09:39 PM   #133
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Time to go back to the real world and the family. Thanks for the hoot of a good time sticky, always love to chat with ya. I mean that too.
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Old 01-25-2007, 09:49 PM   #134
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Time to go back to the real world and the family. Thanks for the hoot of a good time sticky, always love to chat with ya. I mean that too.
Btw if you need more asian content for your site let me know I can hook you up with that.......

www.AsianXXXcontent.com
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Old 01-25-2007, 09:59 PM   #135
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Right Im not a single guy. I have a family. So why would I up and move them out of the country? lol My kids all have dual citizenship till they are 25. 1 month is long enough for me outside the U.S. I am getting an apartment in Uruguay though, but Ill only be there part of the year on and off. Will that count for you? lol
Oh.. I've got a family as well and they have lived in several countries and enjoy every moment. Uruguay sounds interesting - surprised you could bring yourself to actually get an apartment in one of those Spanish civil law third world countries *lol* Just messing with ya ;-)

Sounds good
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Old 01-25-2007, 10:12 PM   #136
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Oh.. I've got a family as well and they have lived in several countries and enjoy every moment. Uruguay sounds interesting - surprised you could bring yourself to actually get an apartment in one of those Spanish civil law third world countries *lol* Just messing with ya ;-)

Sounds good

Nah I researched the country well..
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Old 01-25-2007, 10:27 PM   #137
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/start whoring....

http://www.georgewpuppet.com

/End whoring

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Old 01-25-2007, 10:38 PM   #138
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Nah I researched the country well..
Seriously Sticky - good move

Other places are Panama, Costa Rica and Venezuela, but not the latter until the calm settles there, but after that, it will be a realtors dream and serious earner.
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Old 01-25-2007, 10:43 PM   #139
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Seriously Sticky - good move

Other places are Panama, Costa Rica and Venezuela, but not the latter until the calm settles there, but after that, it will be a realtors dream and serious earner.
Nah its just a place to stay while Im setting up a business with my partner down there. Nothing permanent.
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Old 01-25-2007, 11:26 PM   #140
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Old 01-25-2007, 11:44 PM   #141
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100..........how can you tell a politician is Lying ?



Seriously tho, great exchange guys! Webby, Sticky, Spanky, great dialogue
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Old 01-26-2007, 12:02 AM   #142
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Seriously tho, great exchange guys! Webby, Sticky, Spanky, great dialogue
It's just a nervous twitch Jenni - the boy is under some stress
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Old 01-26-2007, 03:54 PM   #143
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Lets see I work with video... do you know what rendering is??

For Christ sake ...

- It was the shopping carts ( Taboo or something )
- Then it was paysites
- Then it was hosting with splitinfinity ( Do I need to post that video of your gizmo that answers the phone )
- Now it is encoding
- And yesterday it was content ....

You really are a jack of all trades ( and I skipped the S^peaker installation, the paint shop job, and everything else ...)
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Old 01-26-2007, 04:09 PM   #144
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For Christ sake ...

- It was the shopping carts ( Taboo or something )
- Then it was paysites
- Then it was hosting with splitinfinity ( Do I need to post that video of your gizmo that answers the phone )
- Now it is encoding
- And yesterday it was content ....

You really are a jack of all trades ( and I skipped the S^peaker installation, the paint shop job, and everything else ...)
Ill remember that as I drop off my fedex shipments in the morning. Thanks for your concern lol. But lets see I still sell for Split on straight commish, I still do encoding, and I now do content also. Taboo.com went out of business and there is litigation underway between the partners that owned it, and there are a good number of us that worked for them waiting to go after them once the dust has cleared on that. When was it paysites exactly? That was like 3 years ago I had my own site I was working on launching. Girls flaked before we got enough content but they were percentage so I only lost time on the deal. Unless you are talking about when I was doing web design, and I still do that, but its not really me much I have designers that I pay to do the work, and I finish up the details, but money to time ratio and headaches is annoying. Ive been working since I was 14 and Ill be 34 this year. Im guessing im not allowed to have a few jobs in 20 years? Im sorry I dont have a crappy hosting site that has had latin filler text on it for 2 years or so like you. Then.... and only then will I live upto your high standards.

Ill be in content for the long haul, its been the best time to money ratio yet. Oh is it ok if I do affiliate marketing too? Do I have your permission to do that ?

I someone find money from my many jobs to be at nearly every show imagine that..... Let me guess I work a day job or something and manage to post as much as I do and do work for as many people as I do in order to goto the shows right? Foolish directcumfiesta.

Last edited by stickyfingerz; 01-26-2007 at 04:11 PM..
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Old 01-26-2007, 04:15 PM   #145
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When was it paysites exactly? That was like 3 years ago I had my own site I was working on launching. Girls flaked before we got enough content but they were percentage so I only lost time on the deal.

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Umm ok I work currently full time for SplitInfinity.com I also do video encoding, editing and trailiers. I also have a small design company. I also am partnered with a content company. I also have 5 paysites currently under development. I also do alot of affiliate promoting sites.

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showpo...5&postcount=24
didn't you write that .....

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 2:24 pm - Post subject: Stickyfingerz.net

Ok well this site has had a slight change to it. It was once a site for guys to discuss computers cars, and hot chicks. It now showcases the erotic adventures of two local Nashville girls. We havent picked their online names yet so for now we will call them B & W.

We just did our first photo shoot Sunday night. It was impromtu and was mostly just for test shots. Ok here are a few samples. If you put your email in you'll receive a reminder for when the site goes live, and you'll receive a link to two full res pics.

www.stickyfingerz.net Site will go live hopefully September 1st as long as I can get enough time to get a bunch of content. We'll be shooting some vids on friday also. Enjoy!







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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 3:52 pm - Post subject:

Sweetness Wink


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:30 pm - Post subject:

looking good so far


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 4:56 pm - Post subject: lets see

First off, you didn't ask my wife? (she'd say no anyway)
Secondly, what does Mrs. Short Guy say about this new venture? I'm just curious.

MWA


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:08 pm - Post subject: Re: lets see

MyWifesAss wrote:
First off, you didn't ask my wife? (she'd say no anyway)
Secondly, what does Mrs. Short Guy say about this new venture? I'm just curious.

MWA


Mrs. Chinpo has met the girls and seen all the footage pics etc. Wink

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 5:34 pm - Post subject:

Mr. Green
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 9:51 pm - Post subject:

Some pics from saturday night. Wink





Did a virtual lapdance video, got about 70 minutes of footage, should have it edited and a sample out in a few days. Was soo ffin hot. Guess who got to sit in the chair and get dry humped muhahaha lol.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:18 pm - Post subject:

i retire from all video games... i'm moving in ryan

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 9:20 pm - Post subject:

Hint the video sample is on the preview page of the site. Wink

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 10:00 pm - Post subject:

i like the one where they're licking your crotch... the shower one they seemed a little too giggly for my liking lol

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 10:54 pm - Post subject:

Ya shower was the first video. They are getting better as we go along. Site will just get better and better. Wink

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:50 pm - Post subject:

Your site is laced with spyware, and malicious browser hijackers. Just thought Id let you know!!!!


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:59 pm - Post subject:

Also


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Old 01-26-2007, 04:34 PM   #146
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http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/...ipt/index.html

Haha I hope they run him as a VP, the Republicans have a LOCK on 2008 as it is that will just cement it.
How the hell do repubs have a LOCK on 2008 as it is?
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Old 01-26-2007, 04:55 PM   #147
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didn't you write that .....

[SIZE="6"]snip
Yes why do you think we are shooting content lol. We sell some we keep some for ourselves. Basically we are getting paid to produce the content for our own sites. Yup thats really dumb huh? Under development. Did I give a timetable there? Try to keep up. I have a shit load of content we made, content I bartered services for, and content that I got from being partners with certain people. I would wager I have more content right now than most paysites start with. The other one was my site I had almost 2 years ago. Any other information you would like to verify for me? You keep playing with your little crap site hosting thing and Ill worry about me.
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Old 01-26-2007, 05:10 PM   #148
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Haha I hope they run him as a VP, the Republicans have a LOCK on 2008 as it is that will just cement it.
I don't know how you think they have a lock on 2008. I haven't decided who I'd vote for in 2008, but I don't think any Republicans have a lock. In fact, I think this race is so up for grabs that it will be one giant clusterfuck till election day.

Republicans - The best chance for them is either McCain or Guiliani. Two guys who are more moderate on issues and can win in a general election. Their problem is that they may not get out of their primary because the party has shifted very far right with the Christian base running it these days. While Brownback is too crazy to win, I think there will be a guy coming forward who will reach out to that far right base and pick up a lot of votes. McCain and Guiliani will split the sane Republican vote and it could be a giant mess.

Democrats - The one with the most money and power is the one who has the biggest negative reaction amongst voters. While she'll win over a huge part of the population, she is also hated by a huge portion that will never vote for her regardless of who she runs against. Obama has the most charisma out of anyone running, and may be the most intelligent, but he won't have the experience of being in a big time tight race. Everyone else running is a long shot, although Richardson could be interesting if he gets some momentum.

Either way, I don't see how any side has an advantage. If I had to pick now, I'd say the Dems do because Clinton has a huge stash of money behind her and the most experience. Not to mention that the country is going through a bit of an anti-Republican wave which was evident in the last election. They also have the majority in Governors which helps come election time, especially in some key states.

I haven't decided who I'd vote for, and will wait to see which candidate moves to the middle the most. But I can't fathom how you'd think the Republicans have an advantage after the absolute whipping they took in November.
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Old 01-26-2007, 05:20 PM   #149
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this 2006 rendition is fun
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Old 01-26-2007, 05:22 PM   #150
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I don't know how you think they have a lock on 2008. I haven't decided who I'd vote for in 2008, but I don't think any Republicans have a lock. In fact, I think this race is so up for grabs that it will be one giant clusterfuck till election day.

Republicans - The best chance for them is either McCain or Guiliani. Two guys who are more moderate on issues and can win in a general election. Their problem is that they may not get out of their primary because the party has shifted very far right with the Christian base running it these days. While Brownback is too crazy to win, I think there will be a guy coming forward who will reach out to that far right base and pick up a lot of votes. McCain and Guiliani will split the sane Republican vote and it could be a giant mess.

Democrats - The one with the most money and power is the one who has the biggest negative reaction amongst voters. While she'll win over a huge part of the population, she is also hated by a huge portion that will never vote for her regardless of who she runs against. Obama has the most charisma out of anyone running, and may be the most intelligent, but he won't have the experience of being in a big time tight race. Everyone else running is a long shot, although Richardson could be interesting if he gets some momentum.

Either way, I don't see how any side has an advantage. If I had to pick now, I'd say the Dems do because Clinton has a huge stash of money behind her and the most experience. Not to mention that the country is going through a bit of an anti-Republican wave which was evident in the last election. They also have the majority in Governors which helps come election time, especially in some key states.

I haven't decided who I'd vote for, and will wait to see which candidate moves to the middle the most. But I can't fathom how you'd think the Republicans have an advantage after the absolute whipping they took in November.
I personally dont think it was a mistake that the dems won the last election. 2 years were given up to get 8 again.
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