samsam

very astute and well said... they prolly need money to pay for this illegitimate war theyre stuck in

CynthiaB

Crazy. Used to work with the NETeller people almost every day when I was in the online gambling industry. Good thing I moved from that to porn huh? Unless of course, those same things start happening here.

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baddog

Garcia noted that the company acknowledged when it went public that U.S. law prohibited people from promoting certain forms of gambling, including Internet gambling and transmmitting funds that are known to have been derived from criminal activity.

Webby

These sure are Michael Garcia's "words" - not the words of Neteller

We know all companies run around admitting crimes and that their revenues are "derived from criminal activity" *cough*

Here's another loose mouth in action...

Yeah?? He must be talking about all gaming operations outside US jurisdiction Can someone tell Mershon that the vast majority of gaming operations are legal entities and operate under licensing agreements with their respective governments?

Instead of pathetic attempts at sensationalism and hype to support their case, pehaps the ambitious Mr Garcia and Mershon should address higher levels in their government and ask them to address the illegal aspects of US domestic law which contravene global trading agreements ratified by their own government where that government, in reality, are acting as "a colossal criminal enterprise masquerading as legitimate business".

This issue has been stalled and abused by the US goverment far too long. The core matter relates to restricting the movement of funds across international borders and where these funds relate to gaming operations.

It is also an imposition on US citizens who are fully entitled to spend their own funds as and where they wish. No other nation places this restriction on their citizens.

The case presented by US officials was that minors could access gaming activities - another good-sounding and high moral concern, - but in reality, more bullshit. The US is again the only nation who seems to have this purported problem.

This issue has already been judged a violation of international trading by the WTO and a restriction of free trade - a term widely advocated by the US, but rarely applied in reality unless it slanted in the favor of the US. The final penalty/sanction ruling is due from the WTO shortly - little doubts they will take account of the continued abuse of trading agreements by the US and the US will, as usual, deal on the courthouse steps in an attempt to avoid damage - at least for this year.

Mmmm... About that term, "the land of the free" - sadly it is just a cliched term and clearly has little merit at various levels - especially when a lobbyist dollar lights up an eyeball.

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Snake Doctor

That's flat out fucked up when the U.S. can arrest citizens of another country for not following U.S. laws while running a non-U.S. business.

What's next? A strip bar owner in Prague gets arrested for violating Alabama obscenity laws?

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Kimmykim

The two are not the same. While I am not advocating the arrests, the US point is not that this was a non-US business run by non-US citizens.

The point is that the business was targeting US citizens, allowing transactions from US banks -- encouraging them -- and profiting from an enterprise that the US government has long considered to be illegal -- as far back as 1961, with the implementation of the Wire Act.

Account deposit gaming is illegal, it's been illegal, and it continues to be illegal. Anyone who has participated directly in facilitating ways to 'get around' that law is hugely at risk for incarceration, imo.

At the moment, horse racing -- and then ONLY if the bets go into the pari-mutuel track pool instead of being booked as an account deposit -- is the only legal gambling on the net for US citizens.

The poker craze got kicking with the internet fueling it, and while its sad to see it decline, something else, probably horse racing, will come in and take it's place. Americans aren't going to stop gambling online, that money -- just like water -- finds the path of least resistence and a trickle turns into a river.

Webby

The point is that the US presumes to consider others a target while there has been an ongoing dispute, specifically over the issue of transferring gaming funds to other jurisdictions, and where this has already been deemed to be "illegal" or a violation of global trading treaties. For a country which cannot behave "legally" to engage in legal adventures claiming others are "illegal" is a farce.

The Wire Act is just one domestic law which is in conflict with US trading treaties and no effort has been made to adjust this legislation and comply with WTO rulings - despite more than sufficient warning/notice.

Only my - on a personal level, have no interest in gaming, but on a wider scale the arrogance assumed by the US is both dangerous and heading only one way - on a rapidly downwards spiral. It is getting extremely boring tolerating the trails of "issues" from this government who have little to offer - either to the US people or on an international level. There *could* have been an opportunity to embrace an element of the global gaming industry, - but they are obviously too stupid or bending over for the 10,000 lobbyists crawling up their asses to pay any attention to reality.

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SmokeyTheBear

one of them is my neighbour.

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Webby

Small world - One has a home about 200 yards from me

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s9ann0

looks like they will go a long way to protect las vegas :o)

Rhesus

Right on, Webby.

A conflict that is similar on some points is going on in the Netherlands currently. While the Dutch government will probably never go as far as the US does in their conflict with foreign gambling sites, they did fight Ladbrokes' conduct of business in the Netherlands in court, and they won (which has been a precedent for most larger sportsbooks). The verdict is opposed to European free-trade regulations though, and will be trialled again on a higher level.

The difference is that the dutch government lacks the arrogance to take things as far as the US does, and "regulations" are the outcome of trials, not just laws sneakily passed through congress at convenient times (midnight). "Corruption" probably plays a (limited) role here too (the state-owned casino and sportsbooks have an interest in the ban on online sports wagering).

Theo

how is epassporte any different than neteller? im afraid the answer on this is scary.

Webby

Now.. that is saying something if the Dutch government have raised an eyebrow to Ladbrookes

Not familiar with that issue, but sure - chances are there will be a reversal of judgement if there is an obstacle to free trade an appeal goes to the European Court of Justice.

It really gets boring when government lawyers assume so much and waste everyone's time and money pursuing actions where they cannot demonstrate genuine (meaning non-hypocritical) reasons for instigating whatever action or try to be smartasses and become slippery using laws where these laws were never intended to be used in whatever manner.

Can think of one law which was intended to prohibit the sending of explosive material via postal services (sound reasonable!) and ended up being converted by court precedents into another offense which translated means, "thou shalt not send porn by post". Obviously it had to be challenged

Have only been involved in one instance (who needs more?) of free trade violation which involved the adult biz and movement of product from one jurisdiction to another where importation of certain sex toys was an offense. It took a few years to get there, but the case was eventually heard by the European Court of Justice and was deemed a violation of the Treaty of Rome and the govt had little choice but change their policy. But... at least the govt legal team/counsel were at least reasonable and not smartasses on some warped political agenda.

From past track record, unfortunately the US government has a bad habit of assuming much (in addition to the arrogance) and that sometimes flies right back into their face. One time was kinda funny - it was related to the subject of this thread - the US problems with gaming. A very polite and "proper" middle-aged lady who was the minister in a certain government was so outraged by the crass conduct of her US counterpart she told him to "Go back to your bananna republic and manage your own affairs. My government is more than capable of running our affairs without your guidance as to how it should be"

Generally the EU (and most other countries) have little problems with gaming - the UK government actually have incentives for gaming operations to establish themselves - and ironically, a few US operations are taking advantage of that (tho often under another guise - presumably in case their officers get thrown in jail in the land-of-the-free). Also interesting to note that others "wanted" by the US (US citizens) for alleged gaming offenses are not being handed over by other countries and the US has stopped (least for the moment) requesting extradition since this would not be granted because it is not an offense in whatever country. Bottom line - it's a US "issue" and nobody cares. If it was a genuine matter of criminal activity - that's another story.

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Webby

Dunno how Epass is structured SR, but agree, nothing is infallible.

It is widely known Epass is owned/operated and staffed by US citizens and the corp entity is "elsewhere" (offshore). That alone is more than enough to attract the attention of US agencies - even if Chris has went to great lengths to ensure the operation stands up against attack.

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Snake Doctor

I have to disagree with you there. It's similar to the German government arresting me because my websites don't have the age verification system required in their country, and some of their citizens used a German credit card to access my site.
We can't be expected to follow the laws of every country in the world, that would be impossible since doing what's required by law in one country (giving model id's to secondary producers for instance) violates the law in another country. (EU privacy laws)
We can only follow the laws where we reside and incorporate our businesses, otherwise we'd be subject to prosecution from every jurisdiction in the world that has an internet connection.

This is way over the line IMHO.

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Webby

Totally agree Lenny

There are only one set of laws any individual or corp is obliged to observe - those of the country/jurisdiction they operate/reside in. Everything else is irrelevant.

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SkyRunner

PokerStars.com (#1 nowadays) is now officially recommending ePassporte to their US-Players: http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/real-money/usplayerfaq/ (general FAQ).

I have a bad feeling about this.

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born4porn

I agree .... this is not good!

SkyRunner

Yep, they will be either #1 by the end of the year, or they won't exist anymore.

pokernews.com already giving them some love:


Epassporte has been around for a while and is what I used four years ago to make my first online poker account deposit and withdrawal. One frequent complaint from Epassporte users is the amount of hidden fees that they attach ? for instance, their load/reload fee is $5 per $100 deposit and in order to withdraw funds, you need to purchase a $35 electron card with a $2 fee for withdrawal or do an Electronic Funds Transfer (EFT). While I have personally found Epassporte a bit inconvenient to use, I did not have any major problems depositing and withdrawing in the period that I used it.

One cause for concern was Epassporte's Better Business Bureau (BBB) rating. BBB exists as a private non-profit service to provide reports to customers and create accountability for businesses. Epassporte's BBB rating was an F, the lowest rating possible out of a 10-point scale, which corresponds to the following description:

We strongly question the company's reliability for reasons such as that they have failed to respond to complaints, their advertising is grossly misleading, they are not in compliance with the law's licensing or registration requirements, their complaints contain especially serious allegations, or the company's industry is known for its fraudulent business practices.

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Theo

yes exactly. This is the same example I had in my mind as well.

Rhesus

Another attempt to influence public opinion through the media: Lawrence was led into court with ankle chains, only to make him look more like a serious criminal, although he has never been accused of a violent crime.

directfiesta

Soon, they will say the money went to suspected terrorist organization. He then would be tried in a military court.
With hearsay testimony, he gets convicted and sentenced to death ....

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I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

NOTR

LOL you made my day...

scoreman

The attention Epassporte is getting from the poker sites now that Neteller has withdrawn from the USA market is a big red flag for the adult market.

It would seem the market is ripe for either another payment provider to get adult market share from those in adult who want redundancy in this area, or Epassporte to separate the gaming segment from the other parts of its business to help ensure business continuity should their USA gaming segment be shut down by the Feds.

What percentage of people here who use Epassporte keep monies in their account?

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breaker

PartyPoker has recently removed Epass as payment option.

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directfiesta

I want to keep you laughing ...

This is from NBC, not a lunatic blog ...

Happy to have entertained you all ....

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I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

UP IN Smoke

Just to let all you smart guys know. Epassporte does more business in gaming then adult. I would not keep to much money with them if I were any of you! It's only a matter a time before they go UP IN Smoke! LMAO

Webby

So... has the Pentagon been getting advice from Awad al-Bandar, the head of Saddam's court????

Before executing Awad al-Bandar the Iraq government obviously passed him over to the Pentagon for a consultation on how military courts should be run.

Awad al-Bandar was then executed for putting people to death based on the "evidence" suggested in the Pentagon manual, - but the Pentagon so admired his injustice system, they want it applied to military courts.

Amazing how people are alike and all brothers under the skin??

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123Roman

Once again JollyJoe (Joey Bransky) From paymonde/Funds2go decides to trash his competitors...nice work jollyjoe...

See this thread for reference:
http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...=647831&page=2

Jollyjoe (alleged owner of funds2go) has history of trashing epassporte. Do a seach for jollyjoe on this board...read some of his posts...SCUMBAGS

Madame0120

Borg Porn?

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