DarkJedi

If they don't reproduce, how could a gay gene sustain itself?

Holly

Tons of gay people have biological children.


Besides, lots of genetic and chromosomal changes are spontaneous. When was the last time you saw someone with Down Syndrome have a child?

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studiocritic

Suggesting that homosexuality is a chromosomal anomaly like Down's is hilarious at best.

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DarkJedi

IF it is a biological rather than psychological cause, I think it is hormonal rather than genetic. Older moms are probably pumping higher levels of female hormones into their kids.

who

I completely agree. It is IMPOSSIBLE for homosexuality to be genetic.

Holly

I was wondering who'd be the first to start bitching about that. I actually deleted it once before I posted because I knew there'd be at least one.


Where did I write that homosexuality was a chromosomal abnormality? I never did.

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alexg

i don't think it's genetic in most cases...

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Lazonby

Maybe it's not genetic. Maybe the foetus is exposed to too much of or the wrong type of hormone and it alters the morphology of the pituitary gland.

who

rererererer

DarkJedi

Thats what i think too.
It's a choice. The gays want to live that lifestyle without guilt so they blame it on genetics.




It's not my fault. I was born this way.
\

Holly

I think the fact that so many gay people - NOT ALL (<--- I added this for you studiocritic) - have secondary sex characteristics that are of the opposite sex, shows that something genetic or biological is happening.


Besides, if it's not genetic, then that means that one day you may wake up and just decide to start sucking cock on a regular basis. Do you think that's a possibility?

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E$_manager

Being a gay is in the head,in mind.

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mikeyddddd

Homophilia is not like Hemophilia. It's not genetic. It's a behavior which could be the result of many contributing factors that may be beyond the homosexual's control.

Some guys like riding fat chicks. Some guys don't. Some guys like blondes. Some don't. Some guys like guys. They're ghey.

Some girls like bald guys. Some girls don't. Some girls like black guys. Some girls don't. Some girls like girls. mikey likes to watch the hot ones.

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ForteCash

this thread is homosexual

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Pleasurepays

liking red more than blue is hardly the same as preferring a same sex relationship (which i support fully by the way... as long as both chicks are hot)

BoyAlley

(Not going to do this all in yellow as the post's kinda long)

Well no one knows for sure why gays are gay. As a gay man, I can tell you it's NOT a choice, anymore than you being heterosexual was a "choice" for you.

In fact, far being from a choice, most gay men struggle with their homosexuality for a period of time, and try to deny it to even themselves, before "coming out of the closet".

Let me tell you why the right wing groups would like you to BELIEVE that it's a choice: If they're able to convince the public as a whole that homosexuality is just a "lifestyle decision", they have a strong arguement against providing protections and civil rights benefits to them. No marrage, no civil unions, no nondiscrimination clauses.

If, on the other hand, the public learns the truth, that homosexuality ISN'T simply a life style choice, but a true uncontrollable, unchangeable part of someone's very being, their arguments against providing equal protections become very clear for what they really are: bigotry and hate.

If you're serious about learning more about the topic, the Boston Globe did a rather extensive piece a while back, I dug it up for you:

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/mag...es_people_gay/

pocketkangaroo

Ummmmmmmmm. Tastes such as what kind of girl someone finds attractive is part of our genetic makeup. Although behaivor plays a role, our urges to have sex with a certain type of female is nothing more than hormones telling us to instinctively mate.

There have been a lot of studies on this and most scientists (everyone except the ones paid by religous organizations) believe it is simply part of the genetic makeup. It's why there is a much higher chance that identical twins will both be gay but not fraternal.

pocketkangaroo

How do you figure? Although red vs blue is primarily arbitrary, it's still a choice made by the hormones inside our body that tell us that one color is more satisfying than another. These hormones tell us whether we like Pizza vs Chicken, Beer vs Soda, and football vs ballet.

Why is sexual orientation any different than any other thing that we choose?

Pleasurepays

you have made some VERY broad statements defining EVERYONE like you. i think that at a minimum, it CAN be a choice for some. i have known more than a few girls who were diddled by their daddies or uncles that just couldn't have a relationship with a guy anymore. they weren't born that way.

Pleasurepays

The sad thing BA is that you have to start calling everyone "republicans" and "bigots" and so on, as you commonly do.... which suggests to me that you have no real solid arguments for why you are what you are. i dont have anything against you or gays. i personally don't care.. its just an interesting conversation because so few are willing to discuss the truth in an honest way.

jayeff

To suggest that being homosexual or lesbian is a choice - for the majority - is taking political correctness to a ridiculous level. Genetics are responsible for almost every aspect of our being, so is it really likely that "nature" would allow us to be attracted to our own sex, according to personal whim?

CaptainHowdy

Great read, BA...

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Pleasurepays

that makes little sense. if the various peptide hormones involved in brain function where out of balance and causing you crave dog shit for breakfast and telling you its the best thing ever... is that a choice? what if they are telling you that all other food tastes like dog shit and dog shit tastest like ice cream... is that a choice?

your comment assumes no genetic of physiological differences in the brain or genes of a homosexual person and straight person.

ultimately however, acting consciously on what you feel, is a choice... assuming its a behavior which you can consciously control.

pocketkangaroo

I'm not assuming anything is "out of balance" in a homosexual. I'm simply stating that their genetic makeup has them prefer the same sex as opposed to the opposite sex. Just as how I prefer girls with long legs as opposed to enormous breasts.

You are correct in saying that it is a choice to act. We are discussing whether it is a choice in what sex your body tells you is most sexually arousing. I can't choose to be sexually aroused by men, no matter how I act.

pocketkangaroo

Although I think it's wrong to classify everyone who believes different about homosexuality as republican or bigots, the fact is that Republicans have not been very kind to the homosexual community.

As for "no real arguments", the majority of the scientific community believes that homosexuality is genetic. Now I don't know too much about science, but I know I'd rather trust the opinion of the scientific community over Rush Limbaugh.

Pleasurepays

elements of the republican party do not constitute the republican party as a whole. the christian right does not consitiute the republican party. i think that people in general overstate the degree to which people care about this issue or the degree to which people might be opposed to it.


"the majority of the scientific community believes homosexuality is genetic"?

sorry... i seriously doubt that the majority of the scientific community has an opinion on it. the majority of the scientific community is not studying homosexuality or issues relating to homosexuality. the simple fact is that there are almost no peer reviewed studies published that draw any concret conclusions one way or the other.

mardigras

I never "chose" to be gay. If there were any way I could be happy "choosing" to fall into society's expectations I certainly would have done that 20 years ago rather than choose 2 decades of social stigmatism. Non-homosexuals who declare it's a "choice" totally baffle me. If it's a "choice" then you obviously had gay urges before "choosing" to be straight. Well, did you?

Bisexuals are the only ones who really have any "choice"

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Pleasurepays

people choose a lifetime of social stigmatism all the time.

jayeff

...while somehow often managing to weld themselves even more tightly to a particular group of people. And heaven forfend that sometimes we might suspect $$$ as motivating their "individualism".

After Shock Media

I am sticking with womb issues and the mothers immune system as a primary cause.

I shall not give sources, etc. Just the studies I have read and seen show that is the most probable cause.

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munki

About 2 years ago... Old neighbors of mine we're both afflicted with Downs, but had a healthy baby boy together. The woman's mother lived in, and helped to take care of everyone. Very sweet and kind people.

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pocketkangaroo

I know that there are Republicans that don't have issues with homosexuality. But the Republican party stance on the issue is slanted. Also, people like Guiliani who support gay marriage have already been shunned by the party and stand no chance at winning the party nomination. So although there are people who don't have the same beliefs, the party talking points is still anti-homosexuality.

Most of the scientific studies point to homosexuality being a trait passed on. You'll be hard pressed to find many scientists who are in the genetics field who will say that homosexuality is "a bad choice".

scottybuzz

So are you saying that you are either 100% gay or straight?

everyone in the world is bisexual to an extent so from a scale of 1 - 10, boyalley is at 10, where say a super straight man is 1, yet both at times in their life will have thought about the other sex briefly for a few moments sexually. tell me it aint so boy alley.

that is scientific fact.


so what your telling me is that a gay man does not ever have sex with a woman?.

even though through times in his life he has had straight tendencies?

as you go through life, your life moves through stages. Some people go very rarley into the other stages, where others chop and change between gay and straight.


i learnt that in school.

thats your answer. enjoy

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wedouglas

Homosexuality exists and has existed forever in every culture, everywhere. Cultures that have no contact with one another and never had.

Is there a gay gene somewhere? No idea, but it definately is something that someone is born with. They are just that way.

After Shock Media

I still say it is an alteration within the womb. So yes when your actually born it is preset. Though I really think genetics have less to do with it, aside from the mothers own system altering crap after the fact.

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Rochard

One of my non industry friends is gay. He was never attracted to women at any stage of his life. He hid in the closet; He claims he didn't know he was gay until much later in life.

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wedouglas

Far from a choice. You telling me that men and women just decide to have sex with one another? That they do it because they choose to? To say being gay is a choice also means that being straight is a choice. This is not true. How do you think species survived? You think luckily humans usually make the right choice? There would be a hell of a lot less humans if being gay was a choice.

It also has nothing to do with cultural norms because homosexuality has existed in every culture everywhere since the beginning of humanity. What cultures have effected is how people feel about homosexuality.

BoyAlley

Pleasurepays

almost every woman fantasizes about sex with another woman. many act on it. that does not mean they were born gay.

wedouglas

What does this have to do with what I said?

BoyAlley

aico

Gay men are created at birth, when the doctors finger accidently slips up your ass as he/she's pulling you out. It's true, look it up.

Pleasurepays

i never voted for any republican in my life. ever.

the simple truth is that one side wants to legitimize a behavior and demonize those who oppose it. the other side wants to demonize a behavior and legitimize those who oppose it.

what interests me in these discussion is that this question forces you into a corner. "why people are gay" is the question you can never ask honestly... because the simple truth is that you require one and one answer only "i was born this way". no other answer is acceptable. you have an agenda. thats not "science". science is about discovery and accepting the answers, no matter what they are. science is not about seeking answers you hope to find, while summarily ruling out any and all evidence to the contrary.

you claim to hate the religious right.. but your behavior is no different. you have your beliefs, you are extremely intollerant of any other view point. you are incapable of rationally discussing the idea that you might be wrong. you are incabable of changing your views. you are no different than those you hate.

thats the great irony of your anger and of who you are angry with.

notice that your message is NEVER "i am human too, please accept me for who i am"
your message is always "fuck you motherfuckers, you are nothing but a bunch of bigoted assholes"

... then you get annoyed when no one is listening.

Pleasurepays

i agree that it is. just as i agree that the line between comitting murder or punching someone in the face at random or swerving into a crowd of people while driving or acting on any other impulse is much thinner than anyone dare admit to themselves.

ironically... shades of gray, also means that sexual preferrence CAN be a choice.

BoyAlley

who

There's no such thing as homosexuality. There's only sexuality. Just fuck what you wanna fuck and shut the fuck up. It goes for everyone.

sacX

Well, there's almost no doubt that if homosexuality is genetic, it is more complicated than a single gene locus.

There was a landmark study released last week that said humans are much more genetically different from one another than previously thought.
The study demonstrated, that apart from having gene by gene differences there is actually much more variation in the number of copies of each gene called CNVRs (copy number variations). Estimates that instead of 1% variability between individuals there's 12%!

What this means, is that looking for a specific gene might be a mistake, they should be looking at specific genes AND how many copies there are of it. It is highly likely that many diseases, and behavioural characteristics will at some stage be explained by this.

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Pleasurepays

yes, i probably do. but i am honest about it... unlike almost anyone else that needs therapy.

as opposed to the angry person insisting that homosexuality can ONLY be 100% genetic and caused before birth... then later says sexuality is "shades of gray"

Tempest

I don't understand any argument against it being "genetic", especially since the entire "evolution" thing is based on the mutation of genetics etc. over time. I do understand why religions wouldn't want to say it was genetic though.

I believe that being "truly" gay is a genetic thing. I have 2 things about myself that are supposed to be from the genes in my family tree. One was supposed to skip a generation or 2.. it didn't.. and the other one, I have 1 uncle out of many that has the exact same thing. So it's easy for me to believe it's in the genes or a "mutation" of some particlar gene. IMO it's the only thing that makes sense.

Matt 26z

A study was recently done that showed the more older brothers a male has, the greater his chances of being gay are.

The latest theory is that a woman's body attacks the foreign male hormones inside her while she is pregnant with a boy. Then this attack increases with each male pregnancy.