So what is the UN? The UN is basically the United States no one else supports it like us. China and Russia don't count for shit... UN might as well be a referee between to fighters who respect the ref but if they don't ref is just a "figure" who watches shit go down. And when the world crys help and United States says GFY you bitch when we try and help, and bitch when we don't... Whats one to do? go beg china, russia, india and etc...

Its fucked no matter how you look at it..

As far as the world dealing with it.... World Wouldn't have done shit... plain and simple.

The UN, least as far as the US is concerned, is a punching bag. An organization which in any way represents the international community will, by it's nature, become an obstacle course of any countries with a different agenda to that of the international community. By the way, it's worth noting the US has been the country which, by far, has placed objections on the table at the UN. Prob one of the most recent "obstacle courses" was the bickering and delay on a ceasefire in Israel/Palestine which extended that even by more weeks than necessary. Why? The US was not ready to stop the Israeli invasion and agree to the resolution on the table. Speaks volumes.

China and Russia count for shit do they? Interesting to learn new stuff - I never knew that. Both are substantial nations and both are members of the UN Security Council.

Sure the UN is a referee, they serve a purpose in many areas and at many levels. They are also as effective as their members countries. When the UN calls for troops in whatever parts of the world, this has always been a struggle in assembling those troops - it's not exactly thru a lack of effort on the part of the UN. As opposed to the UN sitting back and watching "shit go down", it may be more relevant to address the member country failure in supporting the UN. It is the membership who are watching "shit go down" - the UN is their "club" - they are all members of the international community.

Looking back in history, I can't recall the world crying for US help. What date was that? Also can't recall much begging for help from the US, China, Russia or India. Must have also missed that day.

Bottom line - what has the UN or any other nation got to do with the problems and adventures of the US?? The US admin chose to follow a certain path and made a bed to lie in. It is not to the benefit of other countries that it selected that path. Despite that, little doubts support would be forthcoming from other nations if these was justifiable action required leading to the resolution of a crisis or whatever. The unfortunate scenario here is that the US has lost so much credibility - it's a damage limitation exercise and the sooner that starts the better, both for US folks and the rest of the world.

BTW.. Re your comment on Powell - inclined to agree. Least he has a clue of what war means and prob would command more respect all round than the current occupant of the White House.

Sorry you are so disappointed in the world :winkwink:

Perhaps it may be an idea to clean your own backyard up before trying to address the world as a whole - thanks.

that kind of terrorist shit realy upsets me

That reminds me, I've got some raking to do. I love Autumn.

Webby,

Have a read of Rebuilding America's Defences: Strategy, Forces and Resources
For a New Century

It dates to just before 9/11, but it outlines well what the Bush administration already had planned. 9/11 was simply a red carpet.

Damn... keep forgetting it's autumn in some parts of the world Dagwolf :winkwink:

Every day seems much that same here (Costa Rica) - the temp is around 72 constantly - it's easy to forget seasons. But... techically it's winter and more rain at the moment, but never cold.

Enjoy the raking - it's a kinda therapy :thumbsup

As an American I have an enormous sense of pride in my country and I just try and ignore all the U.S. hating bullshit. When people in other countries talk shit about the U.S. it doesn't really bother me, but what does bother me is when other Americans piss on our President and Piss on our country while we are at war. There is nothing wrong with disagreement or debate, but to make outrageous statements that deliberately fuel the enemies propaganda machine is shameful. I also, think its equally shameful for those in the British press to say what they say about there country and Tony Blair. The way I see it if your an American and you think that America is an evil country and George Bush is a horrible person then feel free to move to France. Even as I write this there is someone coming into this country illegally who would be glad to take your place. :321GFY

lol, thas quiet a high opinion of the US you have there teaseum. a big part of why different people from different parts of the world see things differently is because of thieir nationality, stupidity etc, but its also the news they watch and read. and the news generally gives people the information in which they base their views.

for example the same story in 3 different news reports would go something like this....

-------
Al Jazeera: US soldiers massacred over 50 civilians today after attacking, killing and arresting even more civilians in their own homes as part of their "war on terror".
-----
BBC News: US Soldiers have been accused of massacring iraqi civilians after a dawn raid on houses thought to be used by insurgents. The US arrested 20 suspected insurgents before getting into a fire fight after the raids. it is thought civilians were caught up in the crossfire but accusations have been made that US soldiers did not distinguish between insurgents and civilians. it has been reported that over 50 people died in the resulting firefight, many of them civilians.
-----
FOX News: US soldiers successfully arrested 20 insurgents today in dawn raids on houses used by insurgents. US soldiers were attacked after the raids in which they returned fire and killed a reportedly 50 further insurgents. there has been an unsubstantiated report that some civilians may have been caught up in the firefight, but a whitehouse spokesman has said the people killed were insurgents disguised as civilians.
--------

obviously if 3 people got together after waching 1 report each they would all have different views on what happened. try watching different countries news reports the next time something like this happens and see for yourself :winkwink:

100.......,.. :arcadefre

I say let Canada take care of the Middle East, eh?

I know daddy, its a real problem.

The problem is because all of the people who hate America, and Americans dont hate us because of how stupid or naive we are, or even because Truman dropped 2 atomic bombs to end a war that could have been ended with the same stipulations without the bomb, and they dont hate us also because of Trumans attempt at atomic diplomacy, they dont hate us for exploiting the natural resources of 3rd world countries, or having an unofficial overseas empire. They dont even hate us for winning wars by bombing civilian areas.


They hate America because they hate freedom. They hate freedom because they dont want freedom for themselves, or for anyone else. They are pissed at America because jesus loves America and all of her legal citizens more then anyplace and anyone else in the whole world.

They hate America because America is beautiful and clean, and we all know that cleanliness is next to godliness.

:2 cents: :2 cents:

I love america !!!!

Have you lost your mind or are you being sarcastic Kimo ;) ? :D hehe...

Intersting stuff borked! And much in line with other papers such as the Pax Americana concept and contributed to by individuals who are now part of the current admin staff (eg Rumsfeld, Rice, Wolfowitz et al).

One comment that stood out - (before Young George was dumped in as a tenant in the White House) - and made by Rice, - "US troops are trained to kill and that's what they should be doing". (Yea - had to check this a few times cos just did not believe she said that - and it stands up and it's in context).

OK, Condi is only one person and her views may not represent the overall - but suspect that was the general aura and intention. Basically we need to get into war games and conflict - and where we can show a magical resolution and take the lead. That paper in your link appears to be going along the same path.

Little doubts Iraq was on the table prior to election time - along with a few more countries. You may remember at the start of the first term of office, George was going nowhere, rapidly sinking in polls, - then 9/11. There was masses of support and sympathy for the US at that time. George did stand up, but uttered a pile of cowboy rhetoric with no substance which pretty much started his bad PR and questioned his brain capacity. At the same time, there were rare excellent PR "happenings" - one was the footage of him with a Fire Chief at ground zero - that, among a few more helped pull US public support for him. But, he then pressed off on another avenue and pursued an invasion with Iraq - which was mostly likely, the intention from the start where he could play the role of Commander-in-Chief and defend the US against evil. (He's obviously useless in most other roles - eg economics or "nation constructing").

Only me, but have little doubts this admin know exactly what their aims and agenda is - and that has little to do with enhancing the US as a country. Whether by design or error of judgement, they now have multiple hot spots to address - tho none of them appear to have the simplistic "remedy" scenarios descibed in the link paper. They have all become a problem and causing ripples. Iraq is now a mess and this has eventually been admitted (it's not just a "group of local thugs" as Rumsfeld once tried to claim at the start). Here's a current "status report" of news pieces with talk of a "fresh look" at that situation..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6073504.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6074182.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6075424.stm

Prediction... we will see "insurgent groups" sitting at the table with the US and both parties trying to find a remedy with the aim of cutting down attacks - and the US finding an exit route from Iraq. The sooner the better :)

I'm sure Kimo is just oozing with sarcasm - to the point it's flooding the floor where he sits :winkwink: