You are correct. The pay per download program is shut down. It made no money compared to straight traffic purchases. You are incorrect about the reason. We are as strong as ever and promoting the same products we always have. Dont you think if it was a legal issue we would have stopped promoting the product itself....and not the affiliate program?

"in theory, that's true"
"many adware are also spyware"
"if it steals from me"

See, now you're just contradicting yourself. Is it ALL illegal and harmful or not?


And for you and the others wanting names... I'll tell you what, lose this "they are all scum" attitude and perhaps a name would be worth something. But since you all seem to think that even yahoo and google are stealing your ref codes, the only thing a name would do is give you someone else to hate on, and that's not the reason we do business with people.

No contradiction here. I've been having this discussion with others who understand these issues for years. I call everything spyware, easier to follow threads and understand what's going on and much less confusing.

If there are adware applications that fully disclose the download and ask for a physical click to say "ok", they don't steal sales, they don't corrupt computers, they don't come bundled with a bunch of other programs, and all they do is show an occasional ad (not dozens per day), that in my view would be adware and I wouldn't have a problem with it.

If you can name one like that, I'm all ears....

Not sure where you got your remarks about google and yahoo?

People who promote scums, advertise via scums, sell traffic to scums, defend and condone scums, ARE scums.

Missie

Will76 / Missie, did you download and install spyware from a p2p network and assume that we were distributing it?

I'm just curious if you have a personal issue here or if you're just fighting the good fight?

Right, no contradictions.

DH, allow me to paint you an ugly picture.

You send traffic to AAC, correct? Now imagine if 10% of the surfers you sent to them had this "legitimate LEGAL adware" installed on their computers and you didn't credit for the sale.

How would that make you feel DH? I realize you're in the business of selling traffic so it doesn't mean very much to you. Which is reason enough for me to stop buying traffic from you.

I officially have 0 respect for you man. That says a lot, especially since yesterday I had the utmost respect for you. I certainly hope you reconsider and stop laughing it up over there with your scumware buddies. Thankfully all of the sponsors I do business with have measures in place to prevent any loss of sales on my end.

Now imagine it didn't.

Every time I got infected with spyware was because of an illegal download. Never installed once of those things on purpose. Some have been from porn sites, others came from who knows where, can't remember. Spyware has affected my relatives' computers, my friends' computers and has made my life a miserable hell trying to get rid of it.

I haven't had spyware problems for over a year. Illegal/silent downloads are automatically blocked.

If in your eyes that's a personal issue, then I guess it's personal. I don't like anything that fucks up my computer or the computer of people close to me, especially when I'm the one who has to go fix it. And I especially don't like people or programs that help people steal from me.

Missie

just my 2 cents.. there is no such thing as a legit install.

if i was ever a target of someone trying divert traffic away from my company from a "legit install" i would definatley seek immediate legal action against ALL, and WHOMEVER was/is involved. I would spend my last dollar going after them even if it meant recouping nothing at all.
Duke

I completely agree with you.

But how is spyware the fault of P2P Ads?

Hey StuartD, I'll take some of whatever you're smoking buddy. I wouldn't mind a break from reality. If you truly think this doesn't happen, you're mind is beyond repair.

??? I'm not following this... where did I say that?

Missie

Google advertises and directs traffic to their toolbar. There really is a difference between a software install and spyware in my mind Duke.

Oh ok - sorry for the confusion - with the title of this thread and a few of the comments, I guess I just figured.

Glad we're on the same side of this Missie.

Where did I say it doesn't happen? You said to imagine that it did happen... and then went on to say that it is happening specifically with p2pads traffic.

I imagined it... I also imagined the alternative. Can you?

But this isn't the kind of install being talked about here. Trying to bring Google and other legit software in this conversation is taking everything out of context.

These arguments seem to come more from people dancing around the real issue. Not saying you or anyone in particular.

Missie

You grow a business that soon dominates the market and then one day decide to fuck over all your valued customers. What a tool. GTS buyers should file a class-action lawsuit and bankrupt his fat ass.

How so??

StuartD, do you promote install affiliate programs? Do you use "adware" to advertise?

Missie

I don't mean to cloud the issue here Missie. It's just that Duke commented that there isn't a difference between directing traffic to a program that installs and spyware. Brining a reputable product like the google toolbar into this hopefully shows that a company can direct traffic at a product that doesn't harm people.

Why? Going to immediately think I'm scum without doing any background checks? like a good business person should?

Ahhh, "Sig donated on behalf of GTS". Makes sense now.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go have a more productive chat with the wall behind me.

A question:


Lets say an installer changes affiliate codes, and credits whoever consigned the install software. This of course, is detrimental to affiliates, having a smaller impact on cash programs other than those affiliates not promoting them anymore.

Let's take it one step further:

Let's say I have my own cash program. What is preventing me from having an installer change an entire signup link to my cash program's signup page?

For instance:

If my cash program is www.agentcash.com"

What is preventing me from having the installer change
http://signups.nastydollars.com/?revcode=ffmovies

to:
http://signups.agentcash.com/?revcode=agent

... thereby robbing nastydollars of a signup?

I understand that, but those installs are not what we are referring to here, and everyone knows that. These are brought up to confuse the issue and dance around the subject.

If the product is free and there is a commission for the install, there is a reason for it - not necessarily bad mind you, but... in most cases it is.

Many have called the new google toolbar spyware. It doesn't bombarb you with popups, it doesn't steal commissions, but it knows an awful lot about you... is it spyware? A lot would argue that point and there are many on each side of the fence.

Missie

Amen brotha. :1orglaugh

Just answer the questions, you did understand them, didn't you?

Missie

Interesting comment from another adware guy

"they bitch about sponsors doing installs and cross sells, but if the sponsors stopped and then had to lower payout $5 , they would cry about that"

DH

Actually I believe it is CWS that does something like this. It doesn't change the links or alter the cookie, but when the targeted URL is typed in or clicked, the program automatically redirects the surfer to a site of his choice.

So if you clicked on nastydollars.com/yourid the program would recognize nastydollars.com as the targeted URL and would automatically redirect the surfer to agentcash.com and the surfer would never even see the nastydollars site.

As Kellie explained, these spyware programs don't change/alter/modify links or cookies. They help affiliates do that via forced clicks or redirecting surfers to another site.

Missie

Sue me on what grounds? For providing traffic to completely legal businesses? LOL!

DH

P.S. I'm husky not fat :1orglaugh

I love this because people sell porn that means automatically they have no souls, what a bullshit excuse.Most surfers dont have a clue whats happening and its taken advantage of thats sad but thats why DH is rich and Im not.I like to look at myself in the mirror lol.

So you can't imagine that something can be installed and not alter ref codes. I see. And I have reality issues? :1orglaugh

That's the thing that most people don't understand. The sponsor wouldn't lose a single sale, if anything they'd make a lot more money because their free hits/ppc ads would no longer be commissionable. Affiliates would be able to claim the sales that rightfully theirs and sponsors would see more affiliates being active with sales every month that would have previously gone to a spyware affiliate.

Nobody would lose except the spyware program. Is that so bad?

Missie

You and Mark are taking care of imaging it didn't. She's asking you to imagine it did.

There's loads of stuff out there that is legal but still shady, deceptive or just plain wrong. We can all agree to that, right? I'm not saying the installers that buy your traffic are doing such a thing. I'm just saying that such a thing does exist.

Stuart, I'm honestly curious to know how you'd feel if you found out that one of the legals installs that P2PAds helps spread was swapping out ref codes, forcibly changing home pages and performing other legal but malicious activities. And how would you feel if such activities were responsible for you losing sales?

I'm asking this not as an accusation, because no one has posted any proof that any of the installs that P2PAds distributes are malicious. I'm asking this as a fellow webmaster, one who respects your opinion and one who respects Mark, GTS and P2PAds.

DH..that sounds vaguely familiar :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

DH will own you Will. :2 cents:

I said this before - but how are you sure about the installs? do you test them in every timezone, country, etc?

I've heard of situations where installs are good when you test them out for your location - but actually they block your ip range and install bad shit where your not looking

you're a funny guy DH, what's the point of posting these lame ass comments? :1orglaugh

DH / P2PADS:

I would really like to ask you to answer this question: Do you, as far as you know, facilitate the installation of software such as Zango that operates in the manner above?

We actually do a heck of a lot of work before working with a company that we know wants to install something. It's not hard to bring up a windows server in one part of our vast network, install some software, watch it closely, test it, follow the CEPA list and determine if it's spyware.

DH...even though you know you are right this is a no win agument with the morons who populate this forum.....this has gone on many times before with disasterous results.....just ask Epiccash.....even though many people still promote webmaster direct...they became the poster child for the installs and it turned into a circus.....

Fraud? You're selling traffic to your GTS customers and then turning around and selling the affiliate codes on their galleries to someone else.

From another adware supporter

"this gfy thread is serious BS. This missie retard doesn't know the difference between adware and spyware."

DH

LOL! I think you should sue the adware companies not me Rhizhome and not all adware companies do this sort of thing.

We only supply traffic to companies that are operating legally.

DH

Everyone calls them both spyware these days and everyone pretty much knows wtf each do. Link 1, just 1 of these installs you are so confident that are legal. Or have your coven of idiots that can't even talk shit for themselves post their stuff here.

Rob says:
I just double checked....
Rob says:
We're not doing any installs of any type right now
Rob says:
Just so you know - LOL

DH

Say the company is operating legally but doing something malicious, like swapping ref codes. Would you accept them as a client knowing that the product you were pushing did this? And if you didn't know that the product did this, but later found out that it did (with hard evidence), would you continue to accept their business?

the only problem I have ever had with P2Pads was questionable keywords used to drive traffic

I just made a great analogy of this thread

"It's like a hippy tree hugger shooting a gas attendent because he fuels up a hummer!"

LOL!

DH

Did you buy a package TDF?

We have a very refined blacklist. We don't mess around with that.

Another great comment from ICQ

"what i think is nuts is this will76 guy who's bills himself as an affiliate extraordinaire is just finding out about this now? welcome to 3 years ago..."

DH