Skunkie

Lieutenant-Colonel (ret.) Nigel Wylde, a former senior British Army Intelligence Officer, has suggested that the police and government story about the "terror plot" revealed on 10th August was part of a "pattern of lies and deceit."

British and American government officials have described the operation which resulting in the arrest of 24 mostly British Muslim suspects, as a resounding success. Thirteen of the suspects have been charged, and two released without charges.

According to security sources, the terror suspects were planning to board up to ten civilian airliners and detonate highly volatile liquid explosives on the planes in a spectacular terrorist operation. The liquid explosives -- either TATP (Triacetone Triperoxide), DADP (diacetone diperoxide) or the less sensitive HMTD (hexamethylene triperoxide diamine) -- were reportedly to be made on board the planes by mixing sports drinks with a peroxide-based household gel and then be detonated using an MP3 player or mobile phone.

But Lt. Col. Wylde, who was awarded the Queen's Gallantry Medal for his command of the Belfast Explosive Ordnance Disposal Unit in 1974, described this scenario as a "fiction." Creating liquid explosives is a "highly dangerous and sophisticated task," he states, one that requires not only significant chemical expertise but also appropriate equipment.

Terror plot scenario "untenable"

"The idea that these people could sit in the plane toilet and simply mix together these normal household fluids to create a high explosive capable of blowing up the entire aircraft is untenable," said Lt. Col. Wylde, who was trained as an ammunition technical officer responsible for terrorist bomb disposal at the Royal Army Ordnance Corps in Sandhurst.

After working as a bomb defuser in Northern Ireland, Lt. Col. Wylde became a senior officer in British Army Intelligence in 1977. During the Cold War, he collected intelligence as part of an undercover East German "liaison unit," then went on to work in the Ministry of Defense to review its communications systems.

"So who came up with the idea that a bomb could be made on board? Not Al Qaeda for sure. It would not work. Bin Laden is interested in success not deterrence by failure," Wylde stated.

"This story has been blown out of all proportion. The liquids would need to be carefully distilled at freezing temperatures to extract the required chemicals, which are very difficult to obtain in the purities needed."

Once the fluids have been extracted, the process of mixing them produces significant amounts of heat and vile fumes. "The resulting liquid then needs some hours at room temperature for the white crystals that are the explosive to develop." The whole process, which can take between 12 and 36 hours, is "very dangerous, even in a lab, and can lead to premature detonation," said Lt. Col. Wylde.

If there was a conspiracy, he added, "it did not involve manufacturing the explosives in the loo," as this simply "could not have worked." The process would be quickly and easily detected. The fumes of the chemicals in the toilet "would be smelt by anybody in the area." They would also inevitably "cause the alarms in the toilet and in the air change system in the aircraft to be triggered. The pilot has the ability to dump all the air from an aircraft as a fire-fighting measure, leaving people to use oxygen masks. All this means the planned attack would be detected long before the queues outside the loo had grown to enormous lengths."

Government silent on detonators

Even if it was possible for the explosive to have been made on the aircraft, a detonator, probably made from TATP, would be needed to set it off. "It is very dangerous and risky to the individual," Wylde said. "As the quantity involved would be small this would injure the would-be suicide bomber but not endanger the aircraft, thus defeating the object of bringing down an aircraft."

Despite the implausibility of this scenario, it has been used to justify wide-ranging new security measures that threaten to permanently curtail civil liberties and to suspend sections of the United Kingdom's Human Rights Act of 1998. "Why were the public delicately informed of an alleged conspiracy which the authorities knew, or should have known, could not have worked?" asked Lt. Col. Wylde.

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studiocritic

No idea of the credibility of this guy, but it wouldn't surprise me..

Reichstag.

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pradaboy

I figured as much, I wonder why they're pulling this shit then though.

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davidd

I have seen what sepcial forces can do with household stuff and it is scary. I think this guy is looking too deeply into what it takes to make an explosion.

Anyone with military explosives training can take comon household items and make them deadly... in minutes.

The story could be be bullshit... my point is that it is not difficult making explosives.

Tempest

Given it's easy to find info on the net about making bombs, including how you can mix the liquids later, I found it really odd that they would "all of a sudden" realize that liquid bombs could be a threat.

Lazonby

Did you find this on alJazeera or Indymedia?

GrouchyAdmin

All you need is horseshit and straw. What do you think the cushions, and most of these articles are made of?

biftek

shit you don't even need military training , all you need is net access , or chemical charts

about 10years ago or maybe more there was a plane bombing that used liquid explosives , it was trial for future bombings

sexualsatisfaction

Well no idea about that.

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Webby

Here's a movie on the same subject

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...75105275097719

Don't think it's a well-made piece, but does cover the background and throws up the already-known bad track record on lack of transparency and fact as it relates to "terrorism" - and the string of quashed convictions from previous "terrorism" offenses.

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Webby

Damn - wrong movie! It's about the London bombings on 7/7 - another incident lacking on fact.

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Lazonby

And what exactly is lacking?

Skunkie

The lack of a public enquiry for a start

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Webby

Damn right man

You notice Blair's mob have now passed a law where those "leading" any public enquiry are the same people (or govt ministry) who are under scrutiny? It's like the pedo investigating his own sex offenses.

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Lazonby

Bummer. Perhaps the Muslims didn't do it after all. Maybe it was the Jews.

fallenmuffin

Hoax? I thought they caught a guy who mixed it with Gatorade.

Klen

Now is realy hard time for privacy which can be exploited so easily.

TheDoc

The day this came out I said, no way that you can make a bomb, on a plane, strong enough to take it down. Not with liquids.

I was SRT - EOD in the Marines. Liquids explosions won't pop a tin can flying in the sky, you have to create an implosion and no liquid is doing that.

I can make some damn fun household toys, not one is pure liquid base, they aren't stable to carry around.. And to make them dangerous, they require shrapnel (bb's, nails, ect) Homemade napalm is about the most dangerous thing you can make at home, (or vapor bombs) only because it burns for about an hour, but not hot enough to do any super damage.


Since they can dump the air on a plane, flame or vapor based toys won't work.

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TheDoc

Oh, and something else..

A gatorade bottle? Ummm... No..
You can hurt a few pople with small crap like that, you would need a 5 gallon bucket or larger to do damange..


The OK bombings, those where.. 2? 500 gallon barrels of furtilzer packed with a massive amount of shrapnol.


I know they didn't have furtilzer bombs.. but it gives you an idea of what it takes to make a real strong homemade bomb.

1000 gallons... that's a lot of gatorade bottles.

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crockett

There is no way they would have had the time to mix enough of that stuff to take down a plane. If you mix it fast like they were going to supposedly do, it wouldn't have been powerful enough to take down the plane.

Besides that people on the plane would have smelled to stuff while they were mixing it. The only way they could have possibly done it if they mixed it before they got on the plane. Then they would have likely blown up the taxi on the way to the air port because the stuff is very unstable.

Even by some stroke of luck and they did manage to blow it up, it likely wouldn't have brought down any of the planes.

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Probono

Two comments
1. They might have still been plotting all this and had intent to do it without the knowledge it would not succeed.
2. It was politically very good for Bush and Blair that this magic moment happened to justify the tightening of the noose.

Go figure

pr0

He probably found it on....

Americans Are Sick of Fear Mongering Politics dot com

scardog

I thought they were going to bring on a liquid explosive already mixed in a sportdrink with a fake bottom. It take lots of expertise to fly a plane too, but they learned how to do that.

JD

They didn't have to take off....or land...it doesn't take much to just steer a plane into a building.

biftek

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philipp...nes_Flight_434

used liquid explosives, although it didn't take the plane down , did kill one person and caused massive damage to the plane

Just Mike

wouldnt surprise me. seems like we always hear about some thwarted right around ELECTION TIME

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scardog

They learned how to take off and land. They went to flight school.

scardog

Sounds like he put it together in the lavatory as well.

scardog

So it's pretty easy to navigate a huge jet? Easier than mixing up some liquid explosives? Good to know.

scardog

Probably should have waited another month, to really take advantage of the case. I had almost forgotten about it.

squishypimp

terrorists suck.

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fetishblog

Some guy on the local news made a liquid explosive in about 5 minutes and detonated it all while the local news reporter covered it live. Fuck that guy. He's obviously a dunce.

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Matt 26z

What I question most is if these people were actually going to carry the plan out.

We had something similar here in the US with the "Miami Seven" that were going to blow up the Sears Tower. Come to find out they were full blooded black Americans, who were Christian. They had no ability to carry that attack out.

Webby

Can't remember the exact details, but appears a number of the people who were allegedly going to "imminently" board an aircraft on route to the US didn't even have passports. Must just be a small oversight in the planning

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