Obscenity Arrests and Employees question - GoFuckYourself.com

freeme · 09-08-2006, 08:59 AM

I saw the thread about the brazilian guy that got arrested in Fl. on obscenity charges

Do you think the US Govt would only focus arrests on the principle owners of the company? Or could they turn their focus on employees of the company working in or traveling to the US if they are promoting this content to US webmasters?

Forest · 09-08-2006, 09:37 AM

This is a good question

I would like to hear the answer as im sure there are plently of acct reps who work for US companies with extreme content

GlydeGirl · 09-08-2006, 09:40 AM

I agree... that IS a good question.

I don't have a legal background, but I imagine that employees are not directly responsible for the legalities of their jobs; they are paid to do tasks as directed rather than decide the course of the business. A contractor, on the other hand, I imagine COULD be held legally liable.

SGS · 09-08-2006, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaskTVMaura

I agree... that IS a good question.

I don't have a legal background, but I imagine that employees are not directly responsible for the legalities of their jobs; they are paid to do tasks as directed rather than decide the course of the business. A contractor, on the other hand, I imagine COULD be held legally liable.

So if you are a getaway driver you should be ok?

Forest · 09-08-2006, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SGS

So if you are a getaway driver you should be ok?

right

or for that matter a runner for a drug dealer

This issue should be a concern to alot of us

ztik · 09-08-2006, 09:46 AM

I would say if your working for the company IE doing paper work, html or w/e you would be ok. But if you are participating the illegal activitey I would think you would be just as liable.

GlydeGirl · 09-08-2006, 09:47 AM

Getaway drivers and drug dealers ARE contractors! LOL

Forest · 09-08-2006, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaskTVMaura

Getaway drivers and drug dealers ARE contractors! LOL

LOL

thats a good one Maura

Forest · 09-08-2006, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ztik

I would say if your working for the company IE doing paper work, html or w/e you would be ok. But if you are participating the illegal activitey I would think you would be just as liable.

Define participating

shooting content?
marketing paysites that are considered Obscene
Designing paysites with said content
ect ect ect

where will they draw the line

Klen · 09-08-2006, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaskTVMaura

Getaway drivers and drug dealers ARE contractors! LOL

Funny but true

Pleasurepays · 09-08-2006, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaskTVMaura

I agree... that IS a good question.

I don't have a legal background, but I imagine that employees are not directly responsible for the legalities of their jobs; they are paid to do tasks as directed rather than decide the course of the business. A contractor, on the other hand, I imagine COULD be held legally liable.

the "i was just following orders" defense didn't work well for the Nazis at Neuremburg.

Forest · 09-08-2006, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaskTVMaura

I agree... that IS a good question.

I don't have a legal background, but I imagine that employees are not directly responsible for the legalities of their jobs; they are paid to do tasks as directed rather than decide the course of the business. A contractor, on the other hand, I imagine COULD be held legally liable.

Ok so an employer tells an employee to do somehting that is illegal

The employee does it.

Is he obsolved from legal risk because his employer told him to do it?

Forest · 09-08-2006, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

the "i was just following orders" defense didn't work well for the Nazis at Neuremburg.

Thanks JR

My point exactly

How many US and Intl sponsors have extreme content with employees that work and or travel to the US

There must be hundreds of programs

DateDoc · 09-08-2006, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forest

Ok so an employer tells an employee to do somehting that is illegal

The employee does it.

Is he obsolved from legal risk because his employer told him to do it?

Nope.....

Forest · 09-08-2006, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BusterPorn

Nope.....

so then a rep working for a company promoting obscene materials to their wm could be held liable for the actions of the company

directfiesta · 09-08-2006, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaskTVMaura

I agree... that IS a good question.

I don't have a legal background, but I imagine that employees are not directly responsible for the legalities of their jobs; they are paid to do tasks as directed rather than decide the course of the business. A contractor, on the other hand, I imagine COULD be held legally liable.

Well, you are wrong, at least here in Canada ....

When I got busted on showing an edited ( no cumshots, no shots of genital ) VHS in a topless bar ( Les Amazones ) , I got charged by the Queen for 159a or something similar ( distributing/circulating obscene material ) .

They also charged the doorman of the bar ( because they claim he was the one allowing the showing ) , my driver ( because he transported from point A to B ) and my secretary because she had actually prepared the shipping/invoice documents.

The cops told me that if I pleaded guilty, they would dismiss the charges against the staff ... I told them to

After losing in first instance, I brought it to appeal and got acquitted ... in 1982, 25-30,000 layer fees later...

So I would say that yes.

Phoenix · 09-08-2006, 10:49 AM

no one said this was a squeeky clean industry

but i do thnik the people who made the lionshare of the money should be held liable..lol

After Shock Media · 09-08-2006, 11:01 AM

Typically you bust lower down the chain, then offer deals to the pions to have a better case against the larger target.

HighSociety · 09-08-2006, 11:03 AM

if you know what was going on then that is a crime, they have taken down large groups for just that,

stag44 · 09-08-2006, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forest

so then a rep working for a company promoting obscene materials to their wm could be held liable for the actions of the company

Its a question of degree............ If the police are looking to close down an operation and the rep is the only one based in the US then he will be done... as he has initiated actions.....
If they get the owner, content provider, wm and rep in 1 fell swoop i expect they could be charged with the same offence, but the sentences would reflect the levels of ownership, responsibility etc.....

Forest · 09-08-2006, 11:16 AM

What about companies processing for these sites

can they be held accountable?

After Shock Media · 09-08-2006, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forest

What about companies processing for these sites

can they be held accountable?

One thing I have learned about the US courts is that anything is possible when it comes to prosecutions, specially if they work in that damn conspiracy charge.

Quentin · 09-08-2006, 11:46 AM

Attorney Larry Walters addresses this in an FAQ-style article that has been published on YNOT, and which he has done as a power point presentation at several adult shows.

You can read the full article here and here's an excerpt relevant to the employee question:

++++++++++++

11. Only the owners or day-to-day managers of a website operation can be charged with obscenity.

False.

First, any individual or company up the chain, from production, through distribution, to retail sale, can be charged with obscenity violations. Only the end user, in the privacy of his or her own home, is safe from obscenity threats, due to the right of privacy. In addition, the government often seeks to indict as many individual participants in any particular case, as they can legitimately get away with. This usually includes webmasters, designers, assistants, spouses, bookkeepers, managers, owners, operators, consultants, and any other individual with virtually any degree of decision making authority. The idea is to compel underlings to provide favorable testimony against more important figures to the operation. Often this becomes a race to the prosecutor?s office, with many co-defendants seeking to be the first to obtain an immunity deal and turn ?State?s evidence.? Sometimes, criminal charges are only threatened, and never pursued, in exchange for an agreement to provide favorable testimony. What will the people in your organization do?

++++++++++++

Everyone interested in the 'obscenity' issue should take the time to read Larry's piece. It's not that long, and addresses the major points very clearly and concisely.

- Q.

Pleasurepays · 09-08-2006, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stag44

Its a question of degree............ If the police are looking to close down an operation and the rep is the only one based in the US then he will be done... as he has initiated actions.....
If they get the owner, content provider, wm and rep in 1 fell swoop i expect they could be charged with the same offence, but the sentences would reflect the levels of ownership, responsibility etc.....

look at past obscenity prosecutions.... i don't think you will find many employees arrested for a simple obscenity prosecution. (with the exception of the ray guhn clowns saying "uhmm.. yeah, its all 100% bullshit... and all the guns and drugs were totally legal") - which isn't only an obscenity case.

its definately an interesting question, but i just can't imagine a situation where an employee of a foreign company would get arrested in the US for that companies activities unless it was a very extreme situation and that employee was proven to be 100% complicit in the commission of illegal acts on behalf of the company and it was very clear that employee knew they were breaking the law. i dont mean gray "obscenity" type stuff... i mean it would have to be something much more black and white and defensible by the government to prosecute such a case. furthermore, i doubt they would ever attempt to test questionable laws by prosecuting a non US citizen. the government likes high profile, slam dunk cases. obscenity is generally a loser for them unless they can attach other prosecutable, felony counts.

just my opinion. i'm not a lawyer... i'm just an asshole

After Shock Media · 09-08-2006, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

look at past obscenity prosecutions.... i don't think you will find many employees arrested for a simple obscenity prosecution. (with the exception of the ray guhn clowns saying "uhmm.. yeah, its all 100% bullshit... and all the guns and drugs were totally legal") - which isn't only an obscenity case.

You may wish to look a bit further back in adult history, pre adult internet times.

Forest · 09-08-2006, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quentin

Attorney Larry Walters addresses this in an FAQ-style article that has been published on YNOT, and which he has done as a power point presentation at several adult shows.

You can read the full article here and here's an excerpt relevant to the employee question:

++++++++++++

11. Only the owners or day-to-day managers of a website operation can be charged with obscenity.

False.

First, any individual or company up the chain, from production, through distribution, to retail sale, can be charged with obscenity violations. Only the end user, in the privacy of his or her own home, is safe from obscenity threats, due to the right of privacy. In addition, the government often seeks to indict as many individual participants in any particular case, as they can legitimately get away with. This usually includes webmasters, designers, assistants, spouses, bookkeepers, managers, owners, operators, consultants, and any other individual with virtually any degree of decision making authority. The idea is to compel underlings to provide favorable testimony against more important figures to the operation. Often this becomes a race to the prosecutor?s office, with many co-defendants seeking to be the first to obtain an immunity deal and turn ?State?s evidence.? Sometimes, criminal charges are only threatened, and never pursued, in exchange for an agreement to provide favorable testimony. What will the people in your organization do?

++++++++++++

Everyone interested in the 'obscenity' issue should take the time to read Larry's piece. It's not that long, and addresses the major points very clearly and concisely.

- Q.

Good article Q

Thanx

09-08-2006, 01:23 PM

What if that "employee" isn't legally employed? What if that rep is just 1099'd like every other affiliate?

Kimmykim · 09-08-2006, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

look at past obscenity prosecutions.... i don't think you will find many employees arrested for a simple obscenity prosecution. (with the exception of the ray guhn clowns saying "uhmm.. yeah, its all 100% bullshit... and all the guns and drugs were totally legal") - which isn't only an obscenity case.

Not true, unfortunately. If you go back to the days of Meese, when there were plenty of attempted obscenity cases, you'll find that Russ Hampshire -- VCA -- did 18 months in prison to keep the gov't from going after his employees on his plea bargain agreement.

Forest · 09-08-2006, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shermsshack

What if that "employee" isn't legally employed? What if that rep is just 1099'd like every other affiliate?

According to the article Q posted it seems that ANYONE connected to the obscene content in anyway can be held accountable

Just because your an Independant contractor with 1099 status doest obsolve you from the legal issues

directfiesta · 09-08-2006, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimmykim

you'll find that Russ Hampshire -- VCA -- did 18 months in prison to keep the gov't from going after his employees on his plea bargain agreement.

I remember that. I had diner with him at the VSDA in Chicago, a few weeks before he " reported " for his prison term .... ( I had just bought the theatrical rights of Skin Tight from him ).
And they were the biggest in Adult .. as well as mainstream duplication ...

But kids of today have no idea how it was ... they think double-anal gang bang was the norm ....

Your post are always to the point

09-08-2006, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forest

According to the article Q posted it seems that ANYONE connected to the obscene content in anyway can be held accountable

Just because your an Independant contractor with 1099 status doest obsolve you from the legal issues

So there you go... That would put affiliates in the line of fire just as much as a rep that is 1099'd and not legally employed.

Lord Aga · 09-08-2006, 04:03 PM

You would probably get off if you squealed like a pig! lol

09-08-2006, 08:59 AM	#1
freeme Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 924	Obscenity Arrests and Employees question I saw the thread about the brazilian guy that got arrested in Fl. on obscenity charges Do you think the US Govt would only focus arrests on the principle owners of the company? Or could they turn their focus on employees of the company working in or traveling to the US if they are promoting this content to US webmasters?

09-08-2006, 09:46 AM	#6
ztik Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Nomad Posts: 5,196	I would say if your working for the company IE doing paper work, html or w/e you would be ok. But if you are participating the illegal activitey I would think you would be just as liable. __________________ .

09-08-2006, 10:49 AM	#17
Phoenix BACON BACON BACON Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Poems everybody, the laddie fancies himself a poet Posts: 35,462	no one said this was a squeeky clean industry but i do thnik the people who made the lionshare of the money should be held liable..lol __________________ Skype Phoenixskype1 Telegram PhoenixBrad https://quantads.io

09-08-2006, 11:01 AM	#18
After Shock Media It's coming look busy Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn". Posts: 35,299	Typically you bust lower down the chain, then offer deals to the pions to have a better case against the larger target. __________________ [email protected] ICQ:135982156 AIM: Aftershockmed1a MSN: [email protected]

09-08-2006, 11:03 AM	#19
HighSociety Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,786	if you know what was going on then that is a crime, they have taken down large groups for just that, __________________ http://www.highsociety.com http://www.playgirl.com http://www.cheri.com Jonathan "JC" Maldini ICQ: 223 643

09-08-2006, 09:37 AM	#2
Forest Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hollywood Fl. Posts: 8,988	This is a good question I would like to hear the answer as im sure there are plently of acct reps who work for US companies with extreme content

09-08-2006, 09:40 AM	#3
GlydeGirl Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,516	I agree... that IS a good question. I don't have a legal background, but I imagine that employees are not directly responsible for the legalities of their jobs; they are paid to do tasks as directed rather than decide the course of the business. A contractor, on the other hand, I imagine COULD be held legally liable.

09-08-2006, 09:47 AM	#7
GlydeGirl Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,516	Getaway drivers and drug dealers ARE contractors! LOL

09-08-2006, 11:16 AM	#21
Forest Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hollywood Fl. Posts: 8,988	What about companies processing for these sites can they be held accountable?

09-08-2006, 11:46 AM	#23
Quentin Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,280	Attorney Larry Walters addresses this in an FAQ-style article that has been published on YNOT, and which he has done as a power point presentation at several adult shows. You can read the full article here and here's an excerpt relevant to the employee question: ++++++++++++ 11. Only the owners or day-to-day managers of a website operation can be charged with obscenity. False. First, any individual or company up the chain, from production, through distribution, to retail sale, can be charged with obscenity violations. Only the end user, in the privacy of his or her own home, is safe from obscenity threats, due to the right of privacy. In addition, the government often seeks to indict as many individual participants in any particular case, as they can legitimately get away with. This usually includes webmasters, designers, assistants, spouses, bookkeepers, managers, owners, operators, consultants, and any other individual with virtually any degree of decision making authority. The idea is to compel underlings to provide favorable testimony against more important figures to the operation. Often this becomes a race to the prosecutor?s office, with many co-defendants seeking to be the first to obtain an immunity deal and turn ?State?s evidence.? Sometimes, criminal charges are only threatened, and never pursued, in exchange for an agreement to provide favorable testimony. What will the people in your organization do? ++++++++++++ Everyone interested in the 'obscenity' issue should take the time to read Larry's piece. It's not that long, and addresses the major points very clearly and concisely. - Q. __________________ Q. Boyer

09-08-2006, 01:23 PM	#27
shermo Guest Posts: n/a	What if that "employee" isn't legally employed? What if that rep is just 1099'd like every other affiliate?

09-08-2006, 04:03 PM	#32
Lord Aga Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 479	You would probably get off if you squealed like a pig! lol