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-   -   Xclusive Cash to sue NATS for 5 Million (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=647959)

Theo 08-25-2006 01:33 PM
nevermind

Jace 08-25-2006 02:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShark
As part of its lawsuit pending in the United States District Court for the District of New Jersey, Naked Rhino will be taking the appropriate legal steps necessary to compel TMM to reactivate the NATS software for Naked Rhino for the purposes of determining monies due to affiliates so that they may be paid. Naked Rhino has never stated that it will do anything other than determine what is owed and get it paid. As a result of TMM's improper and unilateral action, Naked Rhino is completely unable to access its records to make an accounting that would enable Naked Rhino to pay its affiliates amounts currently due and owing to them.
TMM has already stated on more than one occasion that they will reactivate nats so that affiliates can be paid, as long as lawyers are present

why is no one hearing that?

Adult Warden 08-25-2006 02:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by damian2001
I cant read through 5 pages of this - Can someone post a link to the full complaint?

Thanks
http://avnonline.com/imagearchive/27...dComplaint.pdf

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude 08-25-2006 02:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul_Rebel
George and Lenny decide to cross North America in a hot air balloon. However, neither were particularly experienced balloonists, and Lenny's mind quickly drifted from navigation to thoughts of how clouds look like cuddly little bunny rabbits. Upon realizing that they were lost, George declared, "Lenny -- we are going to have to lose some altitude so we can figure out where we are."

George lets some hot air out of the balloon, which slowly descended below the clouds, but he still couldn't tell where they were. Far below, they could see a man on the ground. George lowered the balloon, to ask the man their location.

When they were low enough, George called down to the man, "Hey, can you tell us where we are?" The man on the ground yelledback, "You're in a balloon, about 100 feet up in the air."

George Called down to the man, "You must be a lawyer." "Gee, George," Lenny replied, "How can you tell?" George answered, "Because the advice he gave us is 100% accurate, and is completely useless".

The man called back up to the balloon, "You must be a client." George yelled back, "Why do you say that?" "Well," the man replied, "you don't know where you are, or where you are going. You got into your predicament through a lack of planning, and could have avoided it by asking for help before you acted. You expect me to provide an instant remedy. The fact is you are in the exact same position you were in before we met, but now it is somehow my fault."
I like clouds that look like cuddly little bunny rabbits...

ADG Webmaster

DirtyJ_ExtendedMarketing 08-25-2006 02:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zakarian
This is quite comical. You obviously have no idea about Mr. Apgood's extensive computer programming and software background. I assure you
he knows what he is talking about. Moreover, it is not he, but Naked Rhino, that would require the knowledge you so casually assume everyone must have.
WHAT? Thats who I was talking about.. Naked Rhino.. they can get the data if they really wanted to.. Want me to prove it? Give me access to their database ;)

Jace 08-25-2006 02:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyJ_ExtendedMarketing
WHAT? Thats who I was talking about.. Naked Rhino.. they can get the data if they really wanted to.. Want me to prove it? Give me access to their database ;)
jesus, isn't anyone hearing what has been said??

TMM already stated MORE THAN ONCE that they would gladly open up the NATS admin with lawyers present so that affiliates could be paid

why isn't Naked Rhino even trying to do this? hmmmmmm...

DirtyJ_ExtendedMarketing 08-25-2006 02:28 PM
Exactly jace! But what Im saying is.. they dont even need it.. if they wanted to be hard asses and not contact TMM.. fine.. just look up the damn data themselves.. it CAN be done.. nats isnt needed to do it.

Far-L 08-25-2006 02:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jace
TMM has already stated on more than one occasion that they will reactivate nats so that affiliates can be paid, as long as lawyers are present

why is no one hearing that?

Probably because until an attorney says it and a judge agrees with it and the motion is filed and order granted there is not much to it other than potential spin doctoring.

Roald 08-25-2006 02:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by quantum-x
Interesting read.

lucky1 08-25-2006 04:15 PM
I don't even know where to begin commenting on this.
What I do know is that it seems NR is more concerned with trying to sue for 5 Mil so THEY can get money instead of worrying about their affiliates getting paid money they have already earned. Whether they shaved or there was a problem with Nats their first priority should be to make sure they pay their Affiliates.

If NR would have made a statement like this I would have a lot more respect for them and I believe there would have been no damage to their company’s name.

"We are having a problem with Nats. It was a software glitch that we were unaware of, and it is currently being investigated. I assure you there was no shaving and if there was unreported income due to our affiliates because of this glitch it will be paid once we figure this all out. For now Nats has been shut down so we can't pay our affiliates, but we will work this out as quickly as possible. Sorry for the inconvenience."

Instead they decide to sue, which in this case seems a bit much.

Oh yea. Congrats to all the winners........

The lawyers.

frank7799 08-25-2006 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bizarredollars
I really doubt they will get anything... I don't know much about US law, but from what I have seen they don't have a leg to stand on.
It seems you donīt know much about EU competition laws as well. Such a comment done at a public board - even if the accusation was true - would cause legal problems for the poster.

Damian_Maxcash 08-25-2006 04:47 PM
The full complaint is interesting - Good luck to NR.

I assume the onus is going to be on them to prove they where not shaving? - I hope people are big enough to apoligize if it shows that they did nothing wrong.....

spacedog 08-25-2006 05:14 PM
I just read the entire complaint.. NR's legal team presents a very strong & factual case against TMM.

IMO, TMM is fucked.. good fucking riddance.

aico 08-25-2006 05:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spacedog
I just read the entire complaint.. NR's legal team presents a very strong & factual case against TMM.

IMO, TMM is fucked.. good fucking riddance.
I did too & I agree... seems like a good case against TMM to me.

Jace 08-25-2006 05:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spacedog
I just read the entire complaint.. NR's legal team presents a very strong & factual case against TMM.

IMO, TMM is fucked.. good fucking riddance.
isn't perjury illegal though?

spacedog 08-25-2006 05:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jace
isn't perjury illegal though?
perjury? that's when someone lies or makes false statements in court or on affidavit.. who commited perjury.. NR certainly didn't.. I read many such posts & incidents exactly like what they stated in the complaint & yes, nats staff is ALWAYS covering up anything to do with their software.. You can not find a single thread on any board on the net where someone claims somethings wrong with nats that won't have a nats rep doing damage control denying everything,,

spacedog 08-25-2006 05:38 PM
Remember when Panchodog, HoDough, Braincash & Wildcash, all nats users.. they all had issues the same day & there were posts on this board about nats this & that & john & his reps were vehemently denying 100% that it was anything to do with their software.. I am going to find those threads & email them to NR's legal team.

Jace 08-25-2006 05:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spacedog
perjury? that's when someone lies or makes false statements in court or on affidavit.. who commited perjury.. NR certainly didn't.. I read many such posts & incidents exactly like what they stated in the complaint & yes, nats staff is ALWAYS covering up anything to do with their software.. You can not find a single thread on any board on the net where someone claims somethings wrong with nats that won't have a nats rep doing damage control denying everything,,
so it is not illegal to lie on a complaint like this one?

Damian_Maxcash 08-25-2006 05:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jace
so it is not illegal to lie on a complaint like this one?
I think SpaceDog is asking where the lie is......?

L-Pink 08-25-2006 05:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by x582
I just read the whole complaint, was pretty entertaining - especially the part where they quote people on boards like GFY, JBM, etc...

Everyone is pointing at XC for shaving and w/e, but you know it could well have been a glitch (like it happened to many programs before) where the data was not pulled correctly in NATS thus why the discrepancy between the stats reported by NATS and CCBill.

Then NATS calls XC to tell them about the problem - XC is in his car driving from FL to North Carolina because he missed his flight due to the new security measures... He's obviously pissed and has no swift access to internet.

NATS probably goes in saying that the stats are not reporting correctly and affiliates are owed (i.e) $50k in rebills . XC goes wtf, how come your shitty software didn't work properly, wtf is going on... then NATS is all pissed off and wants to rectify the problem right away and wants to adjust the affiliates stats retroactively right now so the affiliates stats show the missing rebills right away.

So XC tells NATS... hey hold your fucking horses, I want to check what's going on - wtf the affiliates gonna think if we do that, don't do fucking shit right now let me think this thru first on how to handle this (and it's his own prerogative as it is his own program and wants to handle shit in a proper way (and most importantly HIS way since it's HIS program).

Then shit happens, NATS is all pissed and is swift to make a comment on the boards because he's offended and doesn't like the fact that XC called them out on their shitty software not reporting the stats correctly - and NATS is all proud to come here and make a statement to get some fame from the community implying they're stadning strong to defend the affiliates against shaving and what not.

It was not NATS place to do what they've done and announce it publicly on forums that quick without waiting a bit to see how things would turn out. A cockfight took place (imho) between NATS and XC when the fuckup was announced to XC by NATS on the phone.

I have a good friend that has a chain of retail tire service centers, he only looks at total sales and his bank balance. I on the other hand tended to micro-manage my business.

Maybe Naked Rhino was content with total sales and their cash on hand , ignorance is bliss.

Miguel T 08-25-2006 05:42 PM
Damn, this isnt any good...

Pleasurepays 08-25-2006 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crockett
So you're trying to say if I lease a program from some company and violate their terms of service. You are going to say that company wouldn't have the right to suspend my license and make a public announcement that they had suspended the license?

That's pretty much what happened. If XC broke the NATS license agrement by using the software in a means that it was defruading affiliates then they have every right in the world to suspend that license. Even if XC didn't do it on purpose but choose not to fix it TMM could still suspend the license.

no... i am not saying that. i didn't say anything like that at all.

what i was addressing was mostly one persons mindless defense of a decision and dwelling on whether or not webmasters are owed money - not realizing that its 100% irrelevant. i was saying that its not the place of NATS to make any public announcements of this type at all. they did so knowing full well the damage it can cause to a business. NO ATTORNEY THAT IS SOBER AND HAS AN IQ OVER 30 would recommend making a public thread basically suggesting they are thieves and announcing they are terminating their ralationship with them knowing full well that the obvious assumption/implication is that they are stealing from webmasters. It can easily be argued that the intent was to harm their business. John can't argue in court "oh, i didn't know anyone would read it or care. didn't think people would take it seriously" --- that has NOTHING to do with suspending a license. if they wanted to suspend the license and felt they had proper grounds, all they had to do was pull the plug. there is no need for a public bashing thread about it.

suspending the license and terminating a relationship in a proper way is one thing. coming to a public forum in front of all would-be business partners and basically saying "hey, these guys are stealing from you" is not the same as "terminating the license."

there is no rational and solid argument for that behavior regardless of what the Xclusive cash did... regardless of whether or not affiliates might be owed money etc. they are all totally seperate issues in the eyes of the court.

will76 08-25-2006 05:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by From The AVN Article

?That?s not how you handle your business, especially in an industry like this one. You can?t just go online, as a business, and post something disparaging about somebody else. As pretty much all the posters on GFY have noted, you can destroy reputations and businesses like that,? says attorney Al Zacarian, who along with Robert Feldman and Rob Apgood, are representing Naked Rhino on the case. .
Obviously Al Zacarian is not legal Consul for EpicTrash. :1orglaugh

spacedog 08-25-2006 05:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jace
so it is not illegal to lie on a complaint like this one?
no,, that's the attorneys summary to the judge & clerk of courts.

The judge will read that & determine, based on facts presented if the court will hear the case or not.. TMM, their attorneys have to answer to that complaint & in turn will prepare their defense statement.

Jace 08-25-2006 05:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by damian2001
I think SpaceDog is asking where the lie is......?
i think that will have to come out with time, but trust me, it will

Damian_Maxcash 08-25-2006 05:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jace
i think that will have to come out with time, but trust me, it will
Its a brave move by NR to make this complaint if they where actually cheating - I doubt they expect TMM to settle.

spacedog 08-25-2006 05:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by damian2001
Its a brave move by NR to make this complaint if they where actually cheating - I doubt they expect TMM to settle.
TMM is fucking stupid if they don't..
I've only been away from the law firm a few months now, but the system is still the same.. TMM is fucked.. trust me on that,, I know legalese & jargon very well

babymaker 08-25-2006 08:48 PM
This thread died already??? :1orglaugh


:upsidedow

Major (Tom) 08-25-2006 09:27 PM
remeber the whole pib cash thing? And the exposing of the mpa2 shave module? What's the first thing everyone was screaming for. A company that would stand behind their no shave policy and have the balls to enforce it. And guess what. A company did come along called too much media and they stood behind their no shave policy. Its funny how soon all you forget how bad you were ALL Fucked by MPA, and how everyone was screaming its time for an honest company to take the stage. Funny how when you get what you all wanted you all moan like little bitches.
Duke

PatrickKing 08-25-2006 09:41 PM
Amen Brother!!

Adult Warden 08-25-2006 09:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DukeSkywalker
remeber the whole pib cash thing? And the exposing of the mpa2 shave module? What's the first thing everyone was screaming for. A company that would stand behind their no shave policy and have the balls to enforce it. And guess what. A company did come along called too much media and they stood behind their no shave policy. Its funny how soon all you forget how bad you were ALL Fucked by MPA, and how everyone was screaming its time for an honest company to take the stage. Funny how when you get what you all wanted you all moan like little bitches.
Duke
What I find funny is no one looks at this in reverse...

If NATS would have suspended the license and not posted what he did...Xclusive Cash would have came on GFY saying NATS locked them out of the admin and made a big scene...Am I right or am I wrong?

They could have blamed everything on NATS that all the stats were wrong due to them suspending the license and blah blah blah...

Correct me where I am wrong...

Damian_Maxcash 08-25-2006 09:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DukeSkywalker
remeber the whole pib cash thing? And the exposing of the mpa2 shave module? What's the first thing everyone was screaming for. A company that would stand behind their no shave policy and have the balls to enforce it. And guess what. A company did come along called too much media and they stood behind their no shave policy. Its funny how soon all you forget how bad you were ALL Fucked by MPA, and how everyone was screaming its time for an honest company to take the stage. Funny how when you get what you all wanted you all moan like little bitches.
Duke
lol - but nobody has seen anything that shows that NR has shaved anyone!

NATS has a problem with its software - NR handled a telecon with TMM badly - they are the only 2 facts that anyone here has proven.

Some are saying that more will come out that shows NR shaved - when that happens all well and good, then we can all jump and down and say how great NATS is. All that has happened so far is they have made a claim and havnt backed it up with anything.

You dont crucify someone and then say you havnt got any proof - but I think we will later. You wait till you have proof and THEN fuck them over. :2 cents:

czarina 08-25-2006 10:06 PM
So that is what this is all about

PatrickKing 08-25-2006 10:20 PM
This place is a fuckin snake pit. A bunch of pussies swaying to and frow accoeding to the weather.

Adult Warden 08-25-2006 10:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by damian2001
lol - but nobody has seen anything that shows that NR has shaved anyone!

NATS has a problem with its software - NR handled a telecon with TMM badly - they are the only 2 facts that anyone here has proven.

Some are saying that more will come out that shows NR shaved - when that happens all well and good, then we can all jump and down and say how great NATS is. All that has happened so far is they have made a claim and havnt backed it up with anything.

You dont crucify someone and then say you havnt got any proof - but I think we will later. You wait till you have proof and THEN fuck them over. :2 cents:
Just curious...what proof could NATS legally post?

Damian_Maxcash 08-25-2006 10:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adult Warden
Just curious...what proof could NATS legally post?
Why, if they had proof would it be illegal to show it?

If you assume they cant because it is confidential and NR would be able to sue - then that ship sailed when they accused them of shaving....

Sly 08-25-2006 10:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DukeSkywalker
remeber the whole pib cash thing? And the exposing of the mpa2 shave module? What's the first thing everyone was screaming for. A company that would stand behind their no shave policy and have the balls to enforce it. And guess what. A company did come along called too much media and they stood behind their no shave policy. Its funny how soon all you forget how bad you were ALL Fucked by MPA, and how everyone was screaming its time for an honest company to take the stage. Funny how when you get what you all wanted you all moan like little bitches.
Duke
Bingo. I posted that exact sentiment a couple weeks back when this first started happening.

Conclusion: people will complain regardless of the outcome. Fucked if you do, fucked if you don't. Frankly, this whole situation could have been resolved with one phone call. ONE PHONE CALL. It really makes me wonder what kind of company chooses the legal route instead of the diplomatic route in spite of their affiliates, the ones who bring in the bacon.

Adult Warden 08-25-2006 10:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by damian2001
Why, if they had proof would it be illegal to show it?

If you assume they cant because it is confidential and NR would be able to sue - then that ship sailed when they accused them of shaving....
Posting confidential CCBill Data or Nats backend stats is much different then what John did...John simply alerted everyone of the issue...As if not it would have backfired on them...Is my take on all this...

Sly 08-25-2006 10:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adult Warden
Posting confidential CCBill Data or Nats backend stats is much different then what John did...John simply alerted everyone of the issue...As if not it would have backfired on them...Is my take on all this...
Yes. If John didn't post anything at all and XYZ Sponsor did in fact shave, this whole situation would be the complete opposite. Hilarious really. Unfortunate, but hilarious.

Damian_Maxcash 08-25-2006 11:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sly
Yes. If John didn't post anything at all and XYZ Sponsor did in fact shave, this whole situation would be the complete opposite. Hilarious really. Unfortunate, but hilarious.
We can go around in circles like this all day and night. :upsidedow

In the end it boils down to that I wont be promoting anyone using NATS because John can and will bring a program to its knees just because he feels they may be cheating.

This ONE guy has his finger on the button and can bring down a large chunk of the adult industry at will, and dosnt have to answer to anyone or even show proof (according to most of the posts here).

That dosnt leave me feeling very comfortable, and Im amazed that some of the companies using NATS are prepared to put their companies in the hands of this one guy.


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