she is in the wrong biz ....:1orglaugh

You can huff and puff and beat your chest all day long but the REAL WORLD outcome is hardly ever pretty.

I discussed this scenario with my lead attorney this afternoon. I basically asked, what would you do if a girl came to you and wanted to get out of her site, even if YOU prepared all the documentation (he is fucking awesome)? Could you get her out of it?

Here was his response. Let's assume that the girl has a rich daddy, or is paying her legal fees on her back.

He said he had no idea what the outcome would be, it could go either way, but here is what he would do:

1. He would file suit against the site owner.
2. He would also name every single affiliate in the suit.
3. Interrogatories would begin. Many trees will die, we have a lot of questions to ask.
4. Depositions would begin. Your argument is going to certainly include financial hardship and financial hardship to your affiliates. Beautiful, contact your accountants boys and girls (affiliates too) and bring your books to the deposition cuz we are gonna go through your accounts penny by penny. Hope you dotted your i's and crossed your t's, would certainly hate for the IRS to have to get involved.
4. Interrogatories over? Nah, just begining. The first batch of interrogatories and depositions raised new questions.

etc, etc, etc, etc. It would COST you a fortune. You could certainly try to counter sue, come up with some good causes of action. Maybe you win, maybe you don't. Even if you do, you don't. Try and collect on a judgement. If the girl doesnt have any money, you aren't getting dick. If she does, bankruptcy and Florida is an easy solution to that one. Remember, you can only go after HER money, not daddy's.

My point is, there are LOTS of factors to consider. As I have said many times, the final answer may very well be, I'm sorry but NO. But an intelligent business person will come up with that answer at the end of the discussion, when they have all the facts, not at the beginning.

This coming from Smokey? Now I have seen it all!

Dont remind me about flakey models today. Had a girl CONTACT ME! asking for a test shoot. I tell her this weekend, she says she cant do it this weekend, has to be before thursday. So I set it up for this morning. Have to pay my babysitter, get all proper releases ready, equipment ready, load everything in the Jeep. Drive 21 miles to her house. She then doesnt answer her door. I leave for a bit and the blinds were partially open and there was a dog in the house. When I get back to see if she just had to leave for a bit, the dog is outback fenced in, and the blinds are shut.

I hit her up on my way back to my house on msn on my sidekick, and she says she is sorry. All she had to do was give me a call this morning, or hit me on msn, and tell me she had changed her mind. Instead she lets me drive over 40 miles, get cash out to pay her with, drive to her house, wait around for 20 mins etc etc. Fuckin flakey models. All this for a test shoot bah. :disgust

Good job Nina

first - i agree that magazines are different than websites - and girls know that - if we only were recruiting for magazines it would be a field day. the difference between a DVD and a website - not much these days, girls who go shoot for an LA porn shooter are going to everywhere on the Net - potentially alot more exposure than a solo girl site model.

You're right that the hypotheticals are endlesss BUT they are important because each girl and situation is different and since you have taken a different stance than ninavain and most others in the niche I know would take i'd like to know in what situations you would do otherwise than a straight 'no i'm sorry'. let's forget about girls just shot for content - there isn't a huge dilemma here - there are no affiliates involved, there is no website - just content sets you are licensing - to remove them costs you a modest loss of income - 1000 dollars at most. Not hard to be the good guy in this situation.

let's take a more difficult example based on what this thread is about - solo girl sites. you shoot a 19 year old model for a solo site - the girl is not stupid, she is informed that she is being shot for the purpose of a solo girl site(yes there are shooters who hide that from girls and that is not fair), you pay her well and shoot enough content for a solo girl site. You launch the site, affiliates are promoting the site, and the site is doing very well - making you and the affiliates lots of money. 6 months later or in the case you present 2 years later you get a frantic email/phonecall from the model that she has is going through to become an EMT or police officer or something like that and she will lose her job if her website is discovered. The website is making you and affiliates over 6 figures a year - could even be 7 figures - what do you do then? Easy to remove 5 or 10 sets from a content store or from a members area of a multimodel site - of course I'd do that for a girl if her story was legit. But this case is much different - you talk about compromises - what compromises can you make in this situation? She's told you there really are no compromises - her site either comes down immediately so that nobody from the EMT department can see it or she is at risk of getting kicked out. Affiliates are going to be pissed off - the fallout is going to hurt your program's reputation - and the financial loss major. The compromises I can think of in this situation - GeoIP protecting the site from her hometown(we are doing this) is far from perfect. Another compromise could be 'In order to shut down your site without doing damage to my business I need to keep the site up for six more months' - this also doesn't help her much - they can find the site within those six months. There really is no compromise in this case - you either take a HUGE hit for this girl or you don't.

Are you shutting down her site so she can become an EMT?

And a good question to ask yourself is from what you know of the girl's character would she do the same for you if the tables were turned?

So another girl: found god, had a kid, trying to get a real job, fellow employees found it, new boyfriend/husband or the one I like best is when someone makes copies and hands them out in da hood

creepy too, if i had a daughter who supposedly posed nude on the internet, i would NEVER want to see the site.

THATS WHAT IM SAYING

I think it is perfectly morally correct to keep the site up there.

add legal correct and you all ok.

I said it before and I will say it again, the end of the conversation might very well be, I'm sorry but the answer is going to have to be NO. However, using the figures above, you just narrowed the conversation down to just a handful of sites, one of which is mine.

Your average solo-girl site is not making anywhere near that kind of income, and as I said, I would look to see what options are available before I would simply say NO. Maybe we agree to remove the tour and redirect the incoming tour hits to another girl and/or site but keep the members area open till the rebills are gone. Maybe we agree to shut down the site as long as the model agrees to compensate the affiliates for lost revenue for a period of say, 4 months. If she has a rich daddy or boyfriend, that is certainly doable. I was watching MTV's sweet sixteen and rich daddys are spending $250,000 for their daughters sweet 16 party and MOST solo girl sites arent making anywhere near that. Maybe we shut down the site and give members access to other solo girl sites in the same program, thus keeping rebills alive while redirecting incoming hits to other sites with a kick in the payout to the affiliates (paid for by the model). There is a lot more to protecting your affiliates then simply telling the girl to fuck off when telling the girl to fuck off might actually put you, and your affiliates in harms way.

In other words, there very well might be options that satisfy all parties. But again, the final answer, after looking at the available options, MIGHT still be NO.

And, as for your question..would they do the same for me? It doesn't matter, its not their eyes I'm looking into when I look in the mirror and it's not their eyes that my kids see when they look into mine.

Then there would be VERY little porn on the net ... :1orglaugh

Are you tuned in to the right show here? We are in the "attractive" business so it has EVERYTHING to do with it.

always good to see someone with some class.

and in case some of you kids don't know, JMM is one of the (very few) guys to stand up and fight acacia.

some of us remember that.

What happens if dad and brother find the site, beat the shit out of the girl and then knock on your door with a gun in their hand. Would 7 figures a year be worth it?

It sounds like a movie yeah, but truth, as they say, is always stranger than fiction...

What action CAN she take, if you have ID's, and model releases, and she's been paid? They can try to do what they want to, but, if you have done everything properly, as I know Nina Vain and pretty much any pther major player on this board would have done...that can't win anything in a court case. If a model is of legal age, and not coerced into shooting...it's all over.

Nina - I almost guessed it was that particular site when I saw this thread earlier. What's crazy is, she's all over the place from "before"...
Fitz

never heard of that happening - but all content shooters should have a gun cuz it is possible. i know Wanton has been met at the door at least once by a dirtbag thug with a gun and my other guy Marco has had a couple times where he thought he'd need his gun maybe.

and if you're saying that you should be intimidated and shut down a site because of threats of violence by a father or brother or bf - fuck that - they are trashier than their daughter or sister - that's why you have a gun - blow their asses to kingdom come the second you need to defend yourself.

Yep, we have guns too..and if anyone's getting past our gate, they better have a bullet proof vest on thier heads.

but the model just e-mailed back and said..ok, and sorry for asking...so sometimes a firm "No' will suffice

After waking up this morning and going through my ICQ messages, all I can say is that the hypocrisy of this thread is AMAZING.

Strike that, it is ABSOLUTELY AMAZING.

great thread, lots of interesting perspectives


this was good:

And, as for your question..would they do the same for me? It doesn't matter, its not their eyes I'm looking into when I look in the mirror and it's not their eyes that my kids see when they look into mine.

101 clueless models :1orglaugh

This was a problem up until about 3-4 years ago, I think one girl did come up to the studio to ask if we would take all her stuff down, can't remember for sure.

The real situation is these girls KNOW their images and videos are going onto the Internet. Unless they live in the middle of nowhere.

The free sites have been up 6-7 years, some before, and their boyfriends, boyfriends brothers, friends brothers, their brothers, and the rest of their school class have been talking about the free porn on the Internet for the last 6-7 years.

Today I'm finding less drop dead gorgeous ones want to fuck in front of the camera, but all the girls who turn up know it will be seen.

Where are you finding these models?

Rofl as an update. That model hits me back up and asks if we can try again. I told her sure, but you will have to do atm, and its now half the money we first discussed for the blow job handjob scene. :1orglaugh

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Rather than models trying to "fit in" to the bullshit Christian morality that tells us that you can't be sexually active/adventurous and still be trusted to hold down a job, how about we force a change... that EMT who wasn't going to get hired because of images of her fucking on film -- that's a massive case of sexual discrimination/harassment for the ACLU.

When are we, as an industry, going to stop being afraid of the bullshit Christian morality that runs this continent??? Adults are allowed to fuck, adults are allowed to have sexy naked pictures of them taken, and adults are allowed to watch sexual activity on the internet, through magazines, and on DVD's (etc).

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with people working in the adult entertainment business and it is complete bullshit for people to be discriminated against for making their money that way.

And for these models to come and ask our industry to remove their perfectly legal images simply because some close-minded people in power over them want to lourd this aspect of their life over them -- they are asking the WRONG people to change their minds!!! They need to stand up to the people who are prejudiced against them and CONVINCE them that there is nothing wrong with adults engaging in sexual activity on film and that it is highly discriminatory (which is illegal) for people to financially penalize people for engaging in this type of work.

So this model should have a talk with her daddy and brother and get them used to the idea that she did what she did with a level head. And the other model who might not get hired because of her past should have a serious talk with the Human Resources department and file a complaint.

I'm so sick of our industry being the whipping post for the Christian morality that DOES NOT ACTUALLY GOVERN our continent in any official capacity. It's time to put those people in their place and FORCE them to accept that there are other ways of living one's life in this country and that they can no longer discriminate against people with different value systems than them.

Good perspective

I second that:thumbsup

That is the opinion I was waiting to see here. Nicely said.

Didn't read the whole thread.

Once published, the content is out there, has been stolen and is spread all overt the world. there is no way to take it ALL down. You can sell her the rights if your want and then she can pursue the matter = a lot of work.

Best for her to live through it, take her lumps and move on.

Make sure your ass is covered with a solid contract = that's obvious.

and where is the pic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, that is all well and good in a perfect world. We don't live in a perfect world.

Most police departments, fire departments, etc, have morality clauses, they can fire you for actions that they deem immoral, whether they are or not.

Sure, she can call the ACLU and fight it, but perhaps she doesn't want to be this years porn poster girl in the community where her parents live and work, where her kids, or maybe brothers and sisters go to school.

Lot of factors that go into this.

Funny thing is, I have read a lot of these replies and I know most of you are full of shit. Most of you have much bigger hearts than you are leading people to believe.

When it comes right down to it, this business is about more than just dollars and cents, it is about people too.

Anyway, before you guys aim your dildos at my ass again, I will once again state that after all avenues are considered my answer might very well be, I am sorry, but NO.

Perhaps she should have thought of that before getting down and dirty for money?

Just a thought.

If I had more time to waste, I would look for a pic of a dead horse to post.

Obviously, that is a given. You and I both know, they don't think.

its a doosey situation thats for sure!

:1orglaugh Smokey


Amen Nina.

That's the only way to do it.

That's how we do it.

wtf??? why did you bump this?

We're in the buisness of selling souls.
What was she thinking?

AND...
She probably told a friend or someone about the site and is now scared they are going to tell someone else. What are the odds of finding pics of a nobody model when you don't know the name of the site or the name she used? I would think she used a fake (stage) name. I don't see what she is worried about anyway unless she told someone or someone she knows reads GFY constantly...

Well, what's all this drama about? Just explain kindly that you are sorry, but you can't. Maybe she simply doesn't know about the implications it would have when you took down the site, like dead links, affiliates getting pissed of, etc.
No need for big drama :2 cents:

or so we like to think, but most of these girls are almost always referred to as sluts and whores by those that shoot and distribute them, and the industry itself has very little repsect for them..they just use them for their financial gain.

geez.... her brother and father wants some of her pics too???