Popups / Exit Consoles / Re-Directs - Should ANYONE who uses them be Blacklisted?

[SleazyDream]

POPUPS - EXIT CONSOLES - REDIRECTS
Should anyone who uses them be blacklisted?


2 years ago no one would even think about saying something like this. The industry is changing. Trend I see is when someone gets into this business they think that they have to make money ANY way they can. Now more and more people are starting to look at the long term and think popups of any sort deters people from clicking banners and buying in general.

Many many HUGE sites nowadays don't use them and make ENROMOUS amounts of cash. Many old programs still use them and continue to make money.

What's you thoughts?

Personally, although I've never used them I've taken a progressive harder stance against them. I used to use sponsers that used them and found they produced LESS than sponsers that don't. I also found many (not all) sponsers that use them don't credit a sale made from them to the referror. From day one it always felt like it was the scammers and scum of this industry that gravitated towards using them. I've always felt that a solid product with a good sales pitch will outsell tricking a surfer and is much more of a long term sustainable sales marketing plan.

[DarkJedi]

adult.com programs use exit consoles

[TDF]

I want to make ENROMOUS amounts of cash...thats ENRON amounts of cash right?...I say to each his own.Whats good for the goose isnt good to the gander. Someone might miss out of a really good site if it wasnt for an exit console. I personally dont like entrance consoles and dont mind the ones on the exit.No more than 2 please.

[FATPad]

A well done exit console can make some money out of traffic that was going to do nothing.

As with all good things, people can't control themselves. If 1 exit console increases revenues by 3%, then 30 of them in a row MUST increase them by 90% right?

blah.

[ldinternet]

Im Speshal.
i looked at what everyone else was voting, then voted differently



popups are bad. just like the sponsors that claim to pay $100 per $1 week trial, yet could crash nasa computers with their enter popups.

[RMG]

Guess it really depends on what you're in for.

If you run any kind of traffic pump site (tgp, linklist, etc)
Then you should strike down at popups whenever you can becuase your sites will only grow with bookmarks. Take a look at the hun for example, there is a reason he is the biggest dog on the porch and his traffic (while mostly bookmarks) buys tons of shit off his site day after day after day.

If you just want some quick cash and plan to go back to flippin' burgers after a while...then praise the popup god.

now for smilies:

[NetRodent]

There is nothing inherently wrong with popups or exit consoles. Like guns, they can be used for good or for evil, it all depends on how they are employed. Endless popups and inescapable circlejerks are evil and don't seem particularly effective.

[redshift]

I found this interesting
After reading this thread I leave and goto news.com and see this

http://news.com.com/2100-1017-909440.html?tag=fd_top

now even ebay's gonna start throwing exit popup's

I feel that "one" exit popup ,console, blur ... thats well done is not "tricking" or "scamming" the surfer , but when you send someone to popup hell they just get pissed off and leave

[Theo]

Originally posted by SleazyDream
I also found many (not all) sponsers that use them don't credit a sale made from them to the referror.

good point, many sponsors fuck your surfers and you don't get credit from it.... bad bad

[Steve]

This poll was written in a very biased manner. I agree with SD about consoles on TGP/traffic pump sites (ones that actually trade, not your Voltar traffic pumps). That will hurt your traffic growth.

However, on my AVS sites, I will pop a single exit console. And it generates extra sales, just by presenting surfers more options. Surfers love to click, so give them choices. But, I don't go CJ crazy on them (since they came from my sites - I want to keep that trust factor going).

But if you bought SE/PPC traffic - go for it. Console chains are the way to go. You have to squeeze your money out of those hits by hook or by crook.

[Terenzo]

Originally posted by Steve
This poll was written in a very biased manner. I agree with SD about consoles on TGP/traffic pump sites (ones that actually trade, not your Voltar traffic pumps). That will hurt your traffic growth.

However, on my AVS sites, I will pop a single exit console. And it generates extra sales, just by presenting surfers more options. Surfers love to click, so give them choices. But, I don't go CJ crazy on them (since they came from my sites - I want to keep that trust factor going).

But if you bought SE/PPC traffic - go for it. Console chains are the way to go. You have to squeeze your money out of those hits by hook or by crook.

Exactly.

[Lane]

some surfers really deserve to be fucked, some dont.. it all depends on your traffic

[Fletch XXX]

Off Topic, ...

DarkJedi: bro using a pic of Palpatine in ya sig with "Jedi" is almost blasphemy, The Emperor was more than a simple Jedi, he was in fact a clone of the real Emperor who would strike any man down who called him a "Jedi"



As for pop ups, I dont use pop ups, or exits.

[Snake Doctor]

This is ridiculous.
Every time I check sports scores or read the news I get consoles popped on me.
I click on a story link @ MSNBC and I have to go through an FPA before I get to the story.

Our sole purpose for building what we build is to advertise something that's going to make us some money, and consoles are just another form of advertising.

Ruining the industry? I doubt it. Click thru ratios aren't down (at least mine aren't) its conversions and retention that are down.

IMHO conversions are down because of the mass influx of non english speaking traffic, especially the oriental traffic, and those people CLICK EVERYTHING, especially those animated gif and flash banners. But of course they can't buy anything so they drag your ratio down.

Retention is down, doesn't have anything to do with consoles, I think it has everything to do with the consumer having more choices than ever before and those choices increase daily. Back in the "good old days" there were only a handful of paysites, and they all had basically the same content. Now the surfer has a literal smorgasboard of porn to choose from, so they jump from one membership to another. (Don't think for a minute that just because they joined your site they're not going back to The Hun anymore to check out new stuff)

The only time consoles are a bad thing is if you're trying to create bookmark traffic (IE a TGP or links list) or if you're charging the members a fee to see your page (members area of a paysite or a premium avs)

And btw, I happen to have several of those "Voltar" traffic pumps, and the consoles on those generate more clicks than the banners and links on all of the other pages combined.
Consoles make money, period.

[Steve]

Originally posted by Lenny2
And btw, I happen to have several of those "Voltar" traffic pumps, and the consoles on those generate more clicks than the banners and links on all of the other pages combined.

Lenny2
You misunderstood why I pointed out a difference betwen a "Voltar" traffic pump and a site like a TGP/Link List/CJ

I am not slamming a "Voltar" type traffic pump. They are great. Excellent idea. You get the most from your traffic. But, they are not the same as a traditional traffic pump, like a TGP.

A TGP has to coddle surfers, and maintain basic standards accepted by the TGP community. So, you really can't have a console campaign, either passive or aggressive, like I would recommend using on the "Voltar" pump style site.

[hyper]

i use 1 exit on my sites, unless its really shitty foreign traffic
never had any complaints

[Snake Doctor]

Steve, I wasn't disagreeing with anything you said.
Quite the contrary, I was simply saying that with the exception of TGP/Link list type sites that consoles are a great way to generate clicks.

[Kimmykim]

Waa waa waa Sleazy, stop your whining.

If popups didn't work then companies like ARS, Maxcash, CEN and CE wouldn't be using them. Or Python, Babenet, etc.

And if you want to bring up that tired old topic of who's got the big league money?

Well I think I just listed 'em for you. Unless you are so foolish as to think of comparing your income with theirs lol.

[Mr.Fiction]

Originally posted by SleazyDream
POPUPS - EXIT CONSOLES - REDIRECTS
Should anyone who uses them be blacklisted?


2 years ago no one would even think about saying something like this.

3 years ago some people were saying it, but nobody cared. It's the same today.

You need to get Anthony from Netpond over here to fuck shit up. He was a major webmaster board defender of circle jerk sites at one time. I don't know if he still is.

[CDSmith]

Again, there is at least one option that was left out of this poll ---

- <i>popups are okay if done in moderation.
- popups are great! if other webmasters are using them, then surfers will really LOVE my nice popup free site and buy from me!</i>

I would have chose either of these options.

I use popups too. HOWEVER --- if the surfer clicks through my site and clicks to go to a sponsor, then my surfer will get NO popups at all. If they choose to leave my site without buying anything, then they get ONE (1) exit pop, which is simply another one of my sites. Out of the 4,000-odd pages I have on the net right now, I think only about 8 or 10 of them have an "onload" blurred windowpop.

Moderation people.

But I also think that other sites that go nuts with chained pops are great, because Like I said, surfers arrive at MY sites (or a site like sleazy's) where there is little or no popups and they love it. The ones that are looking to buy something can now browse in comfort, and they do buy.

It's the freeloaders that never buy shit that my pops are mostly aimed at. May as well milk a few extra clicks out of their useless hides, right?
<font face="Verdana"><b>___________</b>
CD
* <a href="http://www.cdsmodels.com/" TARGET="_blank"><font color="#C08C00">CD's Models on the Web</font></a> International ~ Models ~ database <a href="http://www.cdsmodels.com/webmasters.html" TARGET="_blank"><font color="#C08C00">new trades</font></a> welcome.
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[wiseoldone]

Originally posted by redshift
I found this interesting
After reading this thread I leave and goto news.com and see this

http://news.com.com/2100-1017-909440.html?tag=fd_top

now even ebay's gonna start throwing exit popup's

Wow, Ebay! Does anyone know of any other mainstream companies that are using exit consoles?

[SleazyDream]

Originally posted by Kimmykim
Waa waa waa Sleazy, stop your whining.

If popups didn't work then companies like ARS, Maxcash, CEN and CE wouldn't be using them. Or Python, Babenet, etc.

And if you want to bring up that tired old topic of who's got the big league money?

Well I think I just listed 'em for you. Unless you are so foolish as to think of comparing your income with theirs lol.

I understand that popups work well on the kiddy porn sites you promote.

Babenet makes sooo much money they weren't even able to pay me for the ads they bought - ..... odd how the people who defend popups have a tendency to be scam artists.

[FlyingIguana]

tons of sites use exit popups and shit

espn uses those flash ads and i've seen a few others that have been usin them for a while now.

[SleazyDream]

Originally posted by FlyingIguana
tons of sites use exit popups and shit

espn uses those flash ads and i've seen a few others that have been usin them for a while now.

Tons of people used to think DDT was safe.

Tons of people used to think drunk driving was cool.

times change. Attitudes change. We move on.


Mainline sites are YEARS behind porn in their advertising techniques.

[CDSmith]

Originally posted by SleazyDream
Mainline sites are YEARS behind porn in their advertising techniques.

I disagree with that. <i>Mainstream</i> sites are just as frought with popups, consoles, back-button manipulation and shitty forced downloads as the rest of the net.

Ever try surfing the "free javascript" sites? Or the "free graphics" or "free clipart" sites?? Hell, even Yahell has new devious little popups in use now, and lots of active x manipulation too. Just about every page in yahell alerts my browser that some sort of active x crap is being attempted. What about that stupid "comet cursor" thing that autoloads and takes up residence on your desktop without your permish?

There are fucktards running all sorts of mainstream sites now, using all types of devious forms of screwing the surfer. Do some surfing man, you'll soon see.

But you're right, popups do suck shit. Like I said in my other post,... moderation is key. Most surfers don't mind one lone popup on a site, but they hate those chained pops that are impossible to close faster than new ones open. I think only brain-dead assholes put up sites like that, but that's just my unswayable opinion
<font face="Verdana"><b>___________</b>
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[ElvisManson]

Originally posted by SleazyDream



I understand that popups work well on the kiddy porn sites you promote.

Babenet makes sooo much money they weren't even able to pay me for the ads they bought - ..... odd how the people who defend popups have a tendency to be scam artists.

When someone who runs a TGP can tell me what it takes to make money running paysites I'll tell them how much free pink they can show in the galleries they list. Deal?

CDSmith.....

Why do you think that brain-dead assholes like me do this?

[Biggy2]

like anything else - pop-ups are definitely useful

except when used excessively - just like everything else

its basic knowledge..

use almost anything in proportion, and its good,
it turns bad when it gets excessive

with excessive, i mean pop-up hell

it is perfectly alright to have 1 or 2 popups

[dipshit moron retard]

popups may snag a minority of surfers, eventually though, they'll fucking hate them like everyone you know who uses the net regularly. even 1 or 2 popups is annoying. what about when you surf 20 sites in one day with 1 or 2 popups? boy, thats REALLY annoying. use popups and youre a dickhead who only cares about getting money any way you can, its not really up for debate. is that a bad thing? up to your discretion. it works both for and against people who try to be surfer friendly, too hard to say which way it leans farther though.

[CRAB]

Originally posted by ElvisManson


When someone who runs a TGP can tell me what it takes to make money running paysites I'll tell them how much free pink they can show in the galleries they list. Deal?

CDSmith.....

Why do you think that brain-dead assholes like me do this?

right on !

[a1ka1ine]

divided opinons..

[Bake]

Hmmm a good topic on GFY for a change being around for a few years and seeing both sides helps I now run a few popups and blind links into fpa's and I make much more from these than I do from the tgp's I run. I used to run a big clean as TGP over 80k of bookmarkers and no trades at all and it was tought to make good money from it , I just do small traffic tgp's now and I make much more than 1 big tgp site with a 10th of the efford.
Sleazy maybe you should try a few of these and feed them from your biger sites ? Im amazed at how little efford this takes for the return. if you like to talk in private hit me on ICQ.

[SR]

One or two popups on exit should be okay.
As long as you can close them without a problem.
Some sites bomb you with 5 or more popups and some idiots think it is cool if you can only close that popup with alt-f4.

[CDSmith]

Originally posted by ElvisManson
CDSmith.....Why do you think that brain-dead assholes like me do this?

I would be rather surprised if you told me that you run sites with endless chained popups, the kind that every last surfer on the planet hates with a passion. Very surprised. Or maybe I'm missing your meaning......?

Having 20 to 40 new windows open within 8 to 10 seconds with more opening after that ain't gonna convince no one to whip out their CC. They might buy later on, but not from a popup-hell site. They'll likely buy from a cleaner more professional site. I know I would. Mr popup hell doesn't deserve my business, or anyone elses.
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[Theo]

Originally posted by SR
One or two popups on exit should be okay.
As long as you can close them without a problem.
Some sites bomb you with 5 or more popups and some idiots think it is cool if you can only close that popup with alt-f4.

yes,these popups like the ones maximumcash uses are the most annoying and stupid ones.

[SleazyDream]

Originally posted by CDSmith
I disagree with that. <i>Mainstream</i> sites are just as frought with popups, consoles, back-button manipulation and shitty forced downloads as the rest of the net.

Ever try surfing the "free javascript" sites? Or the "free graphics" or "free clipart" sites?? Hell, even Yahell has new devious little popups in use now, and lots of active x manipulation too. Just about every page in yahell alerts my browser that some sort of active x crap is being attempted. What about that stupid "comet cursor" thing that autoloads and takes up residence on your desktop without your permish?

There are fucktards running all sorts of mainstream sites now, using all types of devious forms of screwing the surfer. Do some surfing man, you'll soon see.

But you're right, popups do suck shit. Like I said in my other post,... moderation is key. Most surfers don't mind one lone popup on a site, but they hate those chained pops that are impossible to close faster than new ones open. I think only brain-dead assholes put up sites like that, but that's just my unswayable opinion
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* <a href="http://www.cdsmodels.com/" TARGET="_blank"><font color="#C08C00">CD's Models on the Web</font></a> International ~ Models ~ database <a href="http://www.cdsmodels.com/webmasters.html" TARGET="_blank"><font color="#C08C00">new trades</font></a> welcome.
* <font color="#FFCCFF">Looking to buy traffic?</font> 2k+/day for 2 weeks for 200 bucks? ICQ-31024634, <a href="mailto:[email protected]?subject=Paid Traffic Deal">email</a>
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yeah - just like all porn was 2-3 years ago dumbass - my point exactly

[Snake Doctor]

Originally posted by SleazyDream



yeah - just like all porn was 2-3 years ago dumbass - my point exactly

Ummmmm, isn't everyone who was around 2-3 years ago complaining about how its a lot harder to make money now than it was then???

Hmmmmm......

[cherrylula]

Originally posted by Kimmykim

If popups didn't work then companies like ARS, Maxcash, CEN and CE wouldn't be using them. Or Python, Babenet, etc.

And if you want to bring up that tired old topic of who's got the big league money?

Well I think I just listed 'em for you. Unless you are so foolish as to think of comparing your income with theirs lol.

I've worked for a couple of those "big league" companies and I will say they sure as hell did not get that way just from pop-ups.

Porn is an ugly, ugly business. I'm only in this for the money.

[Kimmykim]

Oh really? Any business, any industry, can and does get ugly. And anyone that wasn't in it for the money would be foolish at best, broke at worst.

Correctly placed and used pops, be they on load, on exit, blur, etc. can add double digit increases to the bottom line of any site.

That is a fact.

[TDF]

Originally posted by Kimmykim
Oh really? Any business, any industry, can and does get ugly. And anyone that wasn't in it for the money would be foolish at best, broke at worst.

Correctly placed and used pops, be they on load, on exit, blur, etc. can add double digit increases to the bottom line of any site.

That is a fact.

agreed.Diferent buisness strategies for different types of surfers.

[ursella3]

Originally posted by Kimmykim
Oh really? Any business, any industry, can and does get ugly. And anyone that wasn't in it for the money would be foolish at best, broke at worst.

Correctly placed and used pops, be they on load, on exit, blur, etc. can add double digit increases to the bottom line of any site.

That is a fact.

Oh yes... I am making clean site and dirty site and I use them all... If it is okay for msn and yahooo... well...

[lawpal]

I don't give a shit either way, because they are such a widely accepted practice they are never going away.

However, I thought this article was good.

Don't let the design "snobs" stop you from using an exit console.

enjoy

[SleazyDream]

greed in regards to popups tends to lead to utter stupidity.

Yesterday i hit a gallery that had popups - so many it crashed my computer. Idiots seem to think if one popup works, then 80 must be 80 times as good. I was IMPOSSIBLE to sign up for ANY of the popup screens they kept hitting me soo fast - thus the mentality of the typical person who uses popups.

in the end the popup user just paid 80 times the bandwidth and got no extra sales. Sad.


oh and when I re-booted there was 2 dialer icons on my desktop. I'm sure that everyone he did that to LOVED that..........

[Rich J.]

I voted, "Popups are a useful way to make money... yada yada." but I don't agree wirth the whole "Fuck the surfer" part. Pop-ups are a very usefull way to make money and if used correctly they can be effective without fucking over your surfers. We have lots of very loyal readers and 1 popup on The Daily Dirt. Once the surfer closes it then its gone. Nothing more after that. We haven't gotten one surfer complaint about it since it went up. It does however make thousands of dollars for us every month that we would be giving up otherwise.

[poolie]

pop ups do suck... i hate them... and i won't put them on my site...

[Theo]

i agree with SD!

[LoveAsianChicks]

Popups are fucking annoying!!!

Good news for the people who dislike them. Browsers will have the ability to disable popups pretty soon.
Opera already does, and I heard netscape plans to do the same.
IE will include the option to disable popups as well.

My guess is 1-3 years from now & popups will be disabled by default on: Opera/Netscape/IE

[Theo]

wtf, this topic has an exit console!

Ban Sleazydream please!!

[quiet]

real fucking funny - lock the thread.

[RockDaddy]

Consoles are just like going to McDonalds and the window person asking if you would like an apple pie with your order.
If they didn't sell more apple pies by asking, they wouldn't keep asking.

Any salesperson worth a shit is never going to take your first no for an answer, they will try to determine your needs/wants and offer you something that you will want to buy.

Everyone is used to that and I guarantee you that salesperson makes more sales than the person that just accepts your first "no thanks". However, if the salesperson locked the door and wouldn't let you out, that would suck (like consoles you can't close, etc..)

People who are only looking for free porn will put up with whatever they have to to get it. Just like gallery builders keep putting up with the tougher and tougher rules for building their galleries. They put up with it to get the traffic. The same thing goes for surfers. They will put up with whatever they have to or they will pay for a membership.

And if they decide, "hey, I'm not going to surf for porn anymore because of all the consoles and I don't want to buy a membership" then I won't miss that surfer.


RD

[12clicks]

TGPs who ban people for popups and exits just want to ensure that *THEY* make money *NOT* the submitters. It's that simple.