yup, not investigated by the FBI, not investigated by the CIA, not investigated by the intelligence agencies of germany, UK, etc., not investigated by the 9/11 commission, not no investigations at all. You're right.:1orglaugh

the government lies
the media lies
its all lies
I'm the only one who knows the truth
http://dailyramblings.com/images/tinfoilhat.jpg

12clicks, here is an interesting article.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...080101300.html

9/11 Panel Suspected Deception by Pentagon
Allegations Brought to Inspectors General

By Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, August 2, 2006; A03

Some staff members and commissioners of the Sept. 11 panel concluded that the Pentagon's initial story of how it reacted to the 2001 terrorist attacks may have been part of a deliberate effort to mislead the commission and the public rather than a reflection of the fog of events on that day, according to sources involved in the debate.

Suspicion of wrongdoing ran so deep that the 10-member commission, in a secret meeting at the end of its tenure in summer 2004, debated referring the matter to the Justice Department for criminal investigation, according to several commission sources. Staff members and some commissioners thought that e-mails and other evidence provided enough probable cause to believe that military and aviation officials violated the law by making false statements to Congress and to the commission, hoping to hide the bungled response to the hijackings, these sources said.

In the end, the panel agreed to a compromise, turning over the allegations to the inspectors general for the Defense and Transportation departments, who can make criminal referrals if they believe they are warranted, officials said.

"We to this day don't know why NORAD [the North American Aerospace Command] told us what they told us," said Thomas H. Kean, the former New Jersey Republican governor who led the commission. "It was just so far from the truth. . . . It's one of those loose ends that never got tied."

Although the commission's landmark report made it clear that the Defense Department's early versions of events on the day of the attacks were inaccurate, the revelation that it considered criminal referrals reveals how skeptically those reports were viewed by the panel and provides a glimpse of the tension between it and the Bush administration.

A Pentagon spokesman said yesterday that the inspector general's office will soon release a report addressing whether testimony delivered to the commission was "knowingly false." A separate report, delivered secretly to Congress in May 2005, blamed inaccuracies in part on problems with the way the Defense Department kept its records, according to a summary released yesterday.

A spokesman for the Transportation Department's inspector general's office said its investigation is complete and that a final report is being drafted. Laura Brown, a spokeswoman for the Federal Aviation Administration, said she could not comment on the inspector general's inquiry.

In an article scheduled to be on newsstands today, Vanity Fair magazine reports aspects of the commission debate -- though it does not mention the possible criminal referrals -- and publishes lengthy excerpts from military audiotapes recorded on Sept. 11. ABC News aired excerpts last night.

For more than two years after the attacks, officials with NORAD and the FAA provided inaccurate information about the response to the hijackings in testimony and media appearances. Authorities suggested that U.S. air defenses had reacted quickly, that jets had been scrambled in response to the last two hijackings and that fighters were prepared to shoot down United Airlines Flight 93 if it threatened Washington.

In fact, the commission reported a year later, audiotapes from NORAD's Northeast headquarters and other evidence showed clearly that the military never had any of the hijacked airliners in its sights and at one point chased a phantom aircraft -- American Airlines Flight 11 -- long after it had crashed into the World Trade Center.

Maj. Gen. Larry Arnold and Col. Alan Scott told the commission that NORAD had begun tracking United 93 at 9:16 a.m., but the commission determined that the airliner was not hijacked until 12 minutes later. The military was not aware of the flight until after it had crashed in Pennsylvania.

These and other discrepancies did not become clear until the commission, forced to use subpoenas, obtained audiotapes from the FAA and NORAD, officials said. The agencies' reluctance to release the tapes -- along with e-mails, erroneous public statements and other evidence -- led some of the panel's staff members and commissioners to believe that authorities sought to mislead the commission and the public about what happened on Sept. 11.

"I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described," John Farmer, a former New Jersey attorney general who led the staff inquiry into events on Sept. 11, said in a recent interview. "The tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years. . . . This is not spin. This is not true."

Arnold, who could not be reached for comment yesterday, told the commission in 2004 that he did not have all the information unearthed by the panel when he testified earlier. Other military officials also denied any intent to mislead the panel.

John F. Lehman, a Republican commission member and former Navy secretary, said in a recent interview that he believed the panel may have been lied to but that he did not believe the evidence was sufficient to support a criminal referral.

"My view of that was that whether it was willful or just the fog of stupid bureaucracy, I don't know," Lehman said. "But in the order of magnitude of things, going after bureaucrats because they misled the commission didn't seem to make sense to me."

By independants (citizens) or by the appointed professionals (cops)

??

Everyone knows Bush has Wolf Blitzer on the speed dial.

"You can mention this. No, you can't say anything about that. You mention that and a black helicopter'll be landing on your mother's lawn"

If you're watching CNN then you are GUILTY... guilty of allowing yourself to be brainwashed! Everyone who's anyone knows the only HONEST news sources are in EUROPE, and the BBC, and that one in Russia, what's it called? I forgetski.

:D

Good point. The 9/11 commission was a group of independants (citizens)

We need to appoint professionals (cops, investigators) to do a real investigation.

Tdog,
its somewhat interesting. it clearly states that "probable cause to believe that military and aviation officials violated the law by making false statements to Congress and to the commission, hoping to hide the bungled response to the hijackings"

the article clearly blows away the tinfoil hat theory that the 9/11 commission was not independant enough or somehow involved in some sort of cover up.
And there's no surprise that people would try to cover their ass when the defense system did not work as quickly as promised.

This article kinda makes my point.

huh?
lee h hamilton:
Lee Hamilton, vice chair, is president and director of the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars. Prior to becoming director of the Woodrow Wilson Center in 1999, Hamilton served for 34 years in Congress representing Indiana's Ninth District. During his tenure, he served as chairman and ranking member of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs (now the Committee on International Relations), chaired the Subcommittee on Europe and the Middle East from the early 1970s until 1993, the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, and the Select Committee to Investigate Covert Arms Transactions with Iran. Hamilton also served as chair of the Joint Economic Committee, working to promote long-term economic growth and development. As chairman of the Joint Committee on the Organization of Congress and a member of the House Standards of Official Conduct Committee, he was a primary draftsman of several House ethics reforms. Since leaving the House, Mr. Hamilton has served as a commissioner on the influential United States Commission on National Security in the 21st Century (the Hart-Rudman Commission), and was co-chair with former Senator Howard Baker of the Baker-Hamilton Commission to Investigate Certain Security Issues at Los Alamos. He is currently a member of the President's Homeland Security Advisory Council. Mr. Hamilton is a graduate of DePauw University and Indiana University law school, as well as the recipient of numerous honorary degrees and national awards for public service. Before his election to Congress, he practiced law in Chicago and Columbus, Indiana.

Richard Ben-Veniste:
Richard Ben-Veniste is a partner in the Washington law firm of Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw. He served as assistant U.S. attorney, Southern District New York, from 1968 to 1973, which included service as chief of the Special Prosecution Section from 1971 to 1973. Mr. Ben-Veniste was chief of the Watergate Task Force of the Watergate Special Prosecutor's Office from 1973 to 1975 and Special Outside Counsel Senate Committee on Government Operations from 1976 to 1977. From May 1995 to June 1996, Mr. Ben-Veniste was chief counsel (minority) of the Senate Whitewater Committee. Mr. Ben-Veniste received an A.B. from Muhlenberg College in 1964, an LL.B. from Columbia University Law School in 1967, where he was a Harlan Fiske Stone Scholar, and an LL.M. from Northwestern University School of Law in 1968 under a Ford Foundation fellowship grant. He is a member of the bars of New York and the District of Columbia.

Fred Fielding:
Fred Fielding is senior partner and head of Wiley, Rein, & Fielding's Government Affairs, Business & Finance, Litigation and Crisis Management/White Collar Crime Practices. From 1981-1986, he served as Counsel to the President of the United States, as deputy counsel from 1972-1974 and as Associate Counsel from 1970-1972. He also served as clearance counsel during the Bush-Cheney Presidential Transition. In addition to his public service as White House counsel, Fielding has served as the U.S.-designated arbitrator at the Tribunal on the U.S.-U.K. Air Treaty Dispute (1989-1994), as a member of the president's Commission on Federal Ethics Law Reform (1989) and as a member of the secretary of transportation's Task Force on Aviation Disasters, (1997-1998), as well as numerous other commissions. He is a member of the District of Columbia and Pennsylvania Bars, the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania, the U.S. District Court, Eastern District of Pennsylvania; the District of Columbia Court of Appeals; U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia; U.S. Courts of Appeals for the D.C., Federal, First, Third, Fourth, and Ninth Circuits; the U.S. Court of Military Appeals; and the U.S. Supreme Court. He holds an A.B., with honors, from Gettysburg College and a J.D. from the University of Virginia School of Law, where he served on the Editorial Board of the Virginia Law Review.
---------------------------------------------------
I could go on, but I think you get the point.

Looks like they are all lawyers on that panel.

Yup Lawyer are qualified to conduct investigations into the largest criminal act in the history of the planet.

No, I believe the 9/11 commission members were all qualified to do the job they were appointed, thus they would be considered professionals.

Nice try though.

Actually, that's exactly what lawyers do.... they not only stand up and talk in front of rooms full of people, there is a lot of investigation done in order to back up what they are saying.

Am I saying I always believe what these kinds of lawyers tell me? No, not at all. What I'm saying is show me some irrefutable evidence that there is some kind of coverup or conspiracy, don't come at me with your "feelings" or your suspicions or innuendo, because when people do that then 12clicks is right on the money with the tin foil hat analogy.

And I know how some of you hate when 12clicks is right :winkwink:

This is my opinion, and its only an opinion why I think there is a cover up
and the commission is not qualified.

The number one reason is the crime areas (WTC, pentagon) were removed very fast.

Do you remember TWA flight 800? They reconstructed the entire plane with the parts in a hanger to find the problem.

Now im not saying they should have reconstructed the WTC but they should have taken all the metal out to a hanger and done a proper investigation on it. All of the remains were shipped off to china for scrap.

Looking how fast they cleaned up WTC7 and the towers tells me there is a cover up. Someone didnt want anyone to do a proper investigation.

The only one that has done any real tests on the metal is Professor Steven E. Jones. Someone at the WTC took samples and sent them to Professor jones and he found thermite all over it. Thermite is used to cut thru steel.
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html

ok, so planes really didn't slam into the towers, a couple of guys with blow torches cut through the steel.
How long should we have left the pile of rubble with human remains in the center of the city to convince you there was no coverup?

What part in there did I say that planes did not hit the towers?

And did you read, I asked why they didn't move all the metal off to a neutral site to let investigators work on the remains? All investigations rebuild to find out what they can.
Maybe rebuild part of the plane to see what they can find out. Non of that was done.

All the material was shipped off and sold as scrap. No one got a chance to even investigate. Why would the government allow this?

because if you watched it live, you would *know* how the towers came down.
There was no controlled demolition. the towers lost their structural integrity from a plane hitting it and then causing a massive fire. unless the charges went off exactly where the plane flew into the building, your theory is pointless. as is an investigation into controlled demolition.
The buildings didn't collapse from the bottom, they pancaked down from the point the plane crashed into them.
The end.

and I support my government's not wasting money appeasing the tinfoil hat crowd by investigating why the sky is blue.:thumbsup

Oh so the government just watched Fox news and said "Yup thats it, thats how it happened"

I also saw Bill Clinton on Fox news say "I didnt have sex with that woman"

That sure didnt stop ken star from spending $60million to investigate that.

12clicks does it again. Thank you for this thread.

Did that stop people from saying that TWA 800 was shot down by a shoulder launched missile? Another conspiracy theory at work. Are you starting to see a pattern that every major attack, every accident, anything that can possibly be made into a conspiracy theory gets made into one.

I'm not sure if its a case of vaulting hubris that makes Americans believe that the U.S. can't be attacked without our government having something to do with it.

Pearl Harbour - had the conspiracy theory that FDR knew it was going to happen and let it happen so we could enter the war, lol.

TWA 800 - Shoulder launched missile

First WTC Bombing - The FBI knew in advance

9/11 - well you get the idea.

Now you say the selling of the scrap metal...okay...so that means Gov. Pataki was involved as well? Are you starting to see that to make this conspiracy plausible you'd basically have to have half the government involved, all the media would have to play along, civilian agencies that confirmed what happened, and no one would leak the information??? Sorry, but that's a jump off in reality that's just not feasible.

Human nature dictates a large group of people needed to pull off a conspiracy like that couldn't keep a secret. Now if Bush could honestly spin something so huge like that, wouldn't he continue spin the media? He's pretty much gotten nothing but negative press the second he stepped into office.

Basically anyone that believes in the 9/11 conspiracy theory believes that Bush is the greatest evil mastermind in history. Now say this aloud a few times, "Bush is a evil genius", around the third time saying it reality should start setting in again....take an aspirin, it'll be alright...you'll recover from your case of Illuminatitis

no, they actually talked to the engineers and architects who knew everything about the building.
but please, keep pretending it happened another way.

hmmmm, so what you're saying is that one president couldn't keep getting a blow job in the oval office quiet but another president was able to keep quiet a conspiracy that would involve at least 100s if not thousands of people and change the entire world.

can I have some of that dope?

why do I never know how to take this?:winkwink:

You know what

Your trying to move the issue away to other stuff. Like did bush do this, or how could people keep quite. I never said that 9/11 didnt happen the way it was presented to us on the TV.

Im trying to figure out why all the evidence from the WTC and the pentagon was taken out so fast. Controlled domolition Inc. hauled all the metal off in trucks with GPS sensors into barges to be shippped off to china. Why so fast?

All airplane crashes are taken over by the NTSB. What happened to them?

No, thats not what I ment.

People didnt believe President Clinton what he said on Fox News so they spent $60million to investigate it.

People didnt believe the official story from the Government about 9/11, so they spent $3million to investigate it.

Spending $3million to investigate 9/11. Seems the American people didnt get there moneys worth.

again, the government investigated 9/11 thoroughly. the only people who don't think so are the tinfoil hat crowd. look how this thread has attracted you.

fast? it looks like it took a year to clean up. for tinfoil?
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/major.asp
click link, hit CTL+F type 9/11
stop speaking about no NTSB investigation.

Thats not what 70 million americans think.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...ticl eId=2502

Zogby Poll: Over 70 Million American Adults Support New 9/11 Investigation




Utica, NY (PRWEB) May 22, 2006 -- 911Truth.org urges 2006 reform candidates to recognize a powerful new constituency.

Although the Bush administration continues to exploit September 11 to justify domestic spying, unprecedented spending and a permanent state of war, a new Zogby poll reveals that less than half of the American public trusts the official 9/11 story or believes the attacks were adequately investigated.

The poll is the first scientific survey of Americans' belief in a 9/11 cover up or the need to investigate possible U.S. government complicity, and was commissioned to inform deliberations at the June 2~4 "9/11: Revealing the Truth, Reclaiming our Future" conference in Chicago. Poll results indicate 42% believe there has indeed been a cover up (with 10% unsure) and 45% think "Congress or an International Tribunal should re-investigate the attacks, including whether any US government officials consciously allowed or helped facilitate their success" (with 8% unsure). The poll of American residents was conducted from Friday, May 12 through Tuesday, May 16, 2006. Overall results have a margin of sampling error of +/- 2.9. All inquiries about questions, responses and demographics should be directed to Zogby International.

According to Janice Matthews, executive director of 911truth.org, "To those of us who have followed the mounting evidence for US government involvement in 9/11, these results are both heartening and frankly quite amazing, given the mainstream media's ongoing refusal to cover the most critical questions of that day. Our August 2004 Zogby poll of New Yorkers showed nearly half believe certain U.S. officials 'consciously' allowed the attacks to happen and 66% want a fresh investigation, but these were people closest to the tragedy and most familiar with facts refuting the official account. This revelation that so many millions nationwide now also recognize a 9/11 cover up and the need for a new inquiry should be a wake up call for all 2006 political candidates hoping to turn this country around. We think it also indicates Americans are awakening to the larger pattern of deceit that led us into Constitutional twilight and endless war, and that our independent media may have finally come of age."

Poll co-author W. David Kubiak concurs, saying "Despite years of relentless media promotion, whitewash and 9/11 Commission propaganda, the official 9/11 story still can't even muster 50% popular support. Since this myth has been the administration's primary source of political and war-making power, this level of distrust has revolutionary implications for everyone working for peace, justice and civil liberties. If we ever hope to reclaim this country, end aggression and restore international respect, we all must finally scrutinize that day when things started to go so terribly wrong. The media and movement leaders ignore this call at their peril, because tens of millions are clearly telling us here they are ready for 9/11 truth."

SCOPE: The poll covered five related areas: 1) Iraq - do Americans think the Bush administration exploited 9/11 to attack Iraq? (44% do, 44% don't); 2) Cover up - did the government and its 9/11 Commission conceal or refuse to investigate evidence that contradicts their official story? (only 48% said no); 3) The collapse of WTC 7, which was not even mentioned by the 9/11 Commission and has seldom been reported in the media -were respondents aware of this collapse and, if so, did they think it should be investigated (only 52% knew about it, but over 70% of this group believe it should have been investigated); 4) new investigation of official complicity - do respondents think we need one? (only 48% said no); and 5) mass media - how do people rate its performance, including its coverage of alternative 9/11 theories, unanswered questions and inquiry issues? (43% rate it positively, 55% negatively).

(Poll sponsors see knowledge of the collapse of World Trade Center Building 7 as a bellwether issue, because if people do not know this elementary fact, they have probably not been exposed to any independent 9/11 research at all. Since only 52% of respondents had ever heard of this collapse and 45% support a reinvestigation, it may be reasonably inferred that a public fully informed of all the unreported 9/11 facts might support a new investigation by a margin of 80% or more.)

uh, zogby did not poll 70million americans.
nice try though.
:1orglaugh

Now, I have a question.

How do I know that figure of "70 million Americans" wasn't pulled out of someone's ass to add weight to the conspiracy side's argument?

And, if there was a poll or petition etc, how do I know that wasn't padded and tampered with too?

Come to that, how do I know "Tdog" isn't one of thousands of people working for the conspiracy9/11 side, sent to spread dissent among the masses?

How do I know you're not hitting me with some horrid hypno-ray from this very thread as I type?



Damn you're right, this conspiracy thing is fun. :D

Flight 800 was investigated by the NTSB and all other airplane crashes with a final NTSB report number. Why are the 4 planes on 9/11 not investigated by the NTSB?? Is my tinfoil hat on? Am I seeing this wrong?

9/11
"Brief narrative statement of facts, conditions and circumstances pertinent to the accident/incident:
The terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 are under the jurisdiction of the Federal Bureau of
Investigation. The Safety Board provided requested technical assistance to the FBI, and any
material generated by the NTSB is under the control of the FBI. The Safety Board does not plan to
issue a report or open a public docket."
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?...01MA063&rpt=fa


TWA flight 800
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?...96MA070&rpt=fi
Brief narrative statement of facts, conditions and circumstances pertinent to the accident/incident:
On July 17, 1996, about 2031 eastern daylight time, Trans World Airlines, Inc. (TWA) flight 800, a Boeing 747-131, N93119, crashed in the
Atlantic Ocean near East Moriches, New York. TWA flight 800 was operating under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 121
as a scheduled international passenger flight from John F. Kennedy International Airport (JFK), New York, New York, to Charles DeGaulle
International Airport, Paris, France.

On August 23, 2000, the National Transportation Safety Board adopted a final report on this
accident. The report is identified as NTSB report number AAR-00/03.

Long story short, 20 well placed camel jockeys can bring a country to it's knees and create a lot of stupid speculation. Think they succeeded?
Also saw the piece Lou Dobbs did last night on how easy it is to get into the US at border crossings. Unfortunately I suspect that round two is not too far off in the distance.

12clicks is...
 

http://www.secondtruth.com/gemini/magnet.jpg

Attracting tinfoil hats across the land.

Damn I avoided this thread earlier as did not want another mind numbing session of conspiracy freaks and their inane dribble! But nice to see 12 clicks has introduced a nice combo of piss taking and realism into the subject - even if the usual suspects have not taken the hint and bored us all to death with their tedious theories!

Thanks Tom.
You can take a troll to the truth but you sure can't make them learn.:winkwink:

More tedious theories please.

If I'm going to drown in a sea of conspiracy it needs to be deeper than this.


:D

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

in a country of less than 300,000,000 ... they somehow figured out that everyone from newborn to old and dying in a hospital bed thinks?

jesus... can you even fucking count?

Dont see intelligent thinking like this every day on here.

I rarely see any intelligent thinking on here on any fucking day. If I wanted intelligent thinking GFY is so not high on my list of places to find it.

Holy fuck, you gotta hear the NORAD tapes. What a totally disorganized and unprepared air defense network we have.

Hit the PLAY excerpts throughout the page.

http://www.vanityfair.com/features/general/060801fege01

I always thought the military had their shit together. After listening to those you realize they don't.

:Oh crap :Oh crap :Oh crap

oh no 12 dick is back to himself

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh