Thanks for that as never actually seen it. Frankly though it is such poor quality you could not tell whether it was Bin Laden or not and what the fuck does it matter anyway? Last time I looked planes hi-jacked by gentlemen of Middle East persuasion crashed into the WTC so what is the authenticity (or lack of it) of this video meant to say on the subject as a whole?

I love that site :1orglaugh :thumbsup

I will post it over and over until Mr. Soul admits his ignorance of the fact that there are Christian Jews.

http://www.orlyowl.com/lolowl.jpg

Some would argue that we went to war because of this poor quality tape. Killing alot of US soldiers over this tape is not a very good decision, im my opinion.

I guess you didnt read, he has you on the ignore list so he cant see your posts.

The pillar of my argument is that it is not Bin Laden's face. The man on the tape clearly has a wider nose. Not only in one frame. I don't see you thoroughly debunking that anywhere.

The gold ring and the left handed thing never crossed my mind. That is circumstantial. A different face is not.

What difference does it make who committed Sept 11th? Wow, never heard it put that way. Can't really wrap my mind around what would make something not understand the importance of who was behind the act that has defined our foriegn policy for the past 5 years.

Messianic Judaism is a monotheistic religion centered on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, that claims at least 50,000 to 100,000 followers and 300 to 500 congregations worldwide as of 2006

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Jews

Messianic Jews recognize that their existence is entirely due to God's intervention on behalf of His Jewish people. Messianic Judaism is part of the fulfillment of God's many Scriptural promises of eternal love and faithfulness to Israel.

The "Messianic Jewish identity" is wholly dependent on the person of Yeshua: God Himself come to earth to reconcile the Jewish people and all nations to Himself. (See our Statement of Faith to find out more.)

"All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all." - Isaiah 53:6
The foundation of Messianic Judaism, therefore, is each individual's personal relationship with the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob through Messiah Yeshua. In the Hebrew Law God clearly demands a blood sacrifice for the remittance of sins. Each Messianic Jew recognizes his or her own sinfulness and has accepted that Yeshua Himself provided this sacrifice.

Another important aspect of the Messianic Jewish movement is Jewish congregational worship. If Yeshua really is the Jewish Messiah of whom all the Jewish Law and Prophets spoke, then it is the most Jewish thing in the world to follow Him!

Should Jews really attempt to assimilate into churches and forego their Jewish identity when they choose to put their faith in the Jewish Messiah? Messianic Judaism answers, "No!"

As Yeshua Himself embraced His Jewishness, Messianic Jews seek to embrace theirs, by meeting in congregational communities with other Jewish believers and by maintaining a Biblically Jewish expression of their faith. Every congregation is different, but this expression often means worshiping in Hebrew, following Mosaic Law, dancing as King David did before the Lord, and keeping Biblical holidays such as Pesach, Sukkot, or Shavuot.

Also important is Messianic Judaism's ministry to both the Jewish community and the Christian body of believers. Messianic Jews are part of the larger Body of Messiah throughout the world, and Messianic Jews hope to help all believers in Yeshua to better understand the Jewish roots of their faith. Finally, Yeshua declared that no-one can comes to the Father - the God of Israel! - except through Him (John 14:6). Messianic Jews seek to share this way, this truth, and this life with their Jewish brothers and sisters.

http://www.mjaa.org/index.cfm

Messianic Judaism is a monotheistic religion centered on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, that claims at least 50,000 to 100,000 followers and 300 to 500 congregations worldwide as of 2006

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Jews

Messianic Jews recognize that their existence is entirely due to God's intervention on behalf of His Jewish people. Messianic Judaism is part of the fulfillment of God's many Scriptural promises of eternal love and faithfulness to Israel.

The "Messianic Jewish identity" is wholly dependent on the person of Yeshua: God Himself come to earth to reconcile the Jewish people and all nations to Himself. (See our Statement of Faith to find out more.)

"All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all." - Isaiah 53:6
The foundation of Messianic Judaism, therefore, is each individual's personal relationship with the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob through Messiah Yeshua. In the Hebrew Law God clearly demands a blood sacrifice for the remittance of sins. Each Messianic Jew recognizes his or her own sinfulness and has accepted that Yeshua Himself provided this sacrifice.

Another important aspect of the Messianic Jewish movement is Jewish congregational worship. If Yeshua really is the Jewish Messiah of whom all the Jewish Law and Prophets spoke, then it is the most Jewish thing in the world to follow Him!

Should Jews really attempt to assimilate into churches and forego their Jewish identity when they choose to put their faith in the Jewish Messiah? Messianic Judaism answers, "No!"

As Yeshua Himself embraced His Jewishness, Messianic Jews seek to embrace theirs, by meeting in congregational communities with other Jewish believers and by maintaining a Biblically Jewish expression of their faith. Every congregation is different, but this expression often means worshiping in Hebrew, following Mosaic Law, dancing as King David did before the Lord, and keeping Biblical holidays such as Pesach, Sukkot, or Shavuot.

Also important is Messianic Judaism's ministry to both the Jewish community and the Christian body of believers. Messianic Jews are part of the larger Body of Messiah throughout the world, and Messianic Jews hope to help all believers in Yeshua to better understand the Jewish roots of their faith. Finally, Yeshua declared that no-one can comes to the Father - the God of Israel! - except through Him (John 14:6). Messianic Jews seek to share this way, this truth, and this life with their Jewish brothers and sisters.

http://www.mjaa.org/index.cfm

He can see them when someone copys and pastes the info. Is that someone you?

Yeh, I don't know, he doesn't look all that different to me. Also, keeping in mind, apparently he has diabetes and goes through dialysis, I don't know what effect that may have on the face. The best way would be a clear shot of the eye region.

I will say though that whenever I show somebody a couple pictures of me the first thing they say is "you look different in every picture."

Yappo.

Ya Im sure that the first time you posted someone would want to help you out. But after 20 times of the same post, no thanks.

OK I quit. He can remain ignorant.

You are correct. People do look different in different pictures/film depending upon lighting, angle etc. There are scientific ways to determine if it is the same person in each picture of a known person.

Casinos originally pioneered software that could "track" people by their eye region. Basically imagine you're wearing the black Zorro mask. The area covered by that mask is considered to be key identifying facial features. Casinos would mark cheats in their software, when the cheat would walk into another casino or even the same casino, the networked software would flag them for security. Airparts and other high security buildings are now adding this software.

Right now I'm reading an article from the magazine Popular Mechanics about debunking the various theories. Now call me stupid all you want, but I'm having a much easier time believing a very reputable magazine that has access to acclaimed engineers and experts over a "documentary" by a guy who originally wanted to write a fictional story.

Yappo.

Popular mechanics is not a credible magazine, it has long been in bed with the US government. It has about a 100 year history of printing propaganda. Look into that magazine before you believe everything it prints. :2 cents:

Don't believe the documentary, either.

Where did I say I believe everything it prints?

Yappo.

Perhaps I choose the wrong words. You said that you have an easier time believing it because it is a credible magazine. I would suggest being just as critical when examining information from that source as you would information from the documentary people are talking about. Popular Machanics has an agenda just the same.

Okay, this has gotten way off track ... still arguing the details I see!

For those who believe it's a conspiracy, pretend for a sec you're a District Attorney and you've been ordered to "bring down" those responsible for this horrific act.

1) Who do you charge with it and why?
1a) What evidence do you have they were involved?

2) Okay, if you've gotten past that and we'll assume for this point a judge decides you have enough evidence .. you're in court now with a jury. Convince them (in this, case me and GFY) that this person, or people, were involved ... remember, beyond a reasonable doubt.

I doubt if you were honest you didn't get past point #1. Because you don't have a clue who did it, or at least nothing even remotely close to evidence *specific* people were involved in a conspiracy.

So now, go be a Woodward-Bernstein and actually investigate.
Find out who *exactly* planted the bombs in the building (that does not mean "the military" - you're in court now, we need names).
Find out who *exactly* stole the gold.
Find out who *exactly* created/falsified the Bin Laden confession tapes.
Find out who *exactly* set up/remotely piloted/programmed the drones to hit the WTC.
And on and on...

You can't. Not one name. Not one identified person in a conspiracy of at least hundreds.

Call up the Loose Change boys and tell them to watch All The President's Men. I.E. Investigate, not throw together a bunch of mostly unrelated anecdotal and circumstantial evidence and collectively label them a "conspiracy".

Tell them to think like a prosecutor - you don't prove beyond a reasonable doubt by poking holes, you do it by presenting HARD facts and THEN you create your documentary or write a column for the Washington Post.

See Steve's post a few pages back on conspiracies in general and you'll see that the simplest - and therefore, most logical - explanation is that what everyone saw on TV and in real life is what happened. The alternative, the conspiracy about explosives, missiles, drones and missing gold, is but you'd have us believe THAT is the only explanation .. the one far more complicated to the point of nearly impossible.

I'm done on this topic until someone confesses or charges are laid.
:)

That post hit it on the money. :thumbsup

I believe the consensus is that the District Attorney can't "bring down" anybody because the conspiracy is so intwined with the government that anybody who speaks gets shut down right away.

And then we have guys like Corp. Donn de Grand-Pre claiming the National Guard shot down the flight in Pennsylvania, sorry I don't remember the number. Why isn't the government shutting him up? Those are some pretty hefty claims and really are causing a stir. Seriously, can somebody answer this for me? The guy claims to have regular access to the Joint Chiefs of Staff. I'm wondering why the Joint Chiefs would continue talking to this Corp. after the information he's leaked.

We have Marines that can't keep quiet about killing Iraqi civilians. I am amazed that we have hundreds of people that can keep their mouth shut and live with the fact that they killed thousands of their own countrymen. But, anything is possible.

Yappo.

Kevsh you're quite right about what you just posted. Nothing has been proven, nothing has even been investigated. All the conspiracy theories are just that, theories, and I don't give credibility to the vast majority of the claims.

It would be nice if we had an investigation, where DA's with the resources to investigate and the ability to subpoena had the chance, but unfortunately our government has not allowed that to happen. The New York City district attorney was not allowed to investigate the worst crime ever committed on our soil. For some reason the federal government blocked every attempt at an investigation.

This is not some crazy conspiracy theory, it's an undeniable fact. This is what I'm mad about. This should outrage the entire country, but TV doesn't talk about it, so neither do 90% of the people. We've let a very shady and secretive government decide that this horrible act is not worth investigating, and we've let them tell us who did it five minutes after it happened, while offering absolutly no evidence.

I'm not a loney toon who believes those crazy consipiracy websites. I'm a New Yorker, and almost every educated New Yorker I've ever talked to about it feels the same way. Something like 85% of New Yorkers want a real investigation. Something like 65% believe the government is hiding something.

Anyway, gotta jet, good Yanks game on TV right now, can't focus on it and post at the same time. I have great seats for tomorrow, we're going to sweep those fucking canucks right out of the wild card race!

Any gas held under pressure will explode when put under high amounts of heat and contained in a confined space. So even water left in a tank will eventually expload when heat is applied in a sufficient amount that the gas contained becomes so pressurized the container can no longer with stand the forces being placed on it...

Fire extinguishers will explode when left in extreme heat. Elevators have numberous gas canisters in their braking systems. Copy machines have gas canisters in them. A lot of the businesses in the WTC towers probably had many different canisters ranging from CO2 to Oxygen to various other gasses.

So hearing explosions during a fire is normal. Very normal.

Mr. Soul,

$3 million was spent on the investigation of 9/11

$60 million was spent on investigating Clinton.

That is one of the bigger issues.

he is a chemist and few other things, very l33t. Smokey I know you are well versed in many things. But he has umpteen PHD's, Majors, yada yada on all this stuff. So I tend to beleive someone with as much knowledge and know how as him.

As for the rest, he doesnt deny at all that the gov was totally involved. For whatever reason....

And yes, a building that big will fall straight down, even not being imploded.

BTW, Smokey. I want to watch that movie that debunks "loose change" but I really dont like to bit torrent. Is there another way to get it?

Yep, you said it. Only building brought down by boom booms is #7.

No. No. He is right. ALL buildings that fall fall straight down into a nice little pile like that.

Which one is it mr. soul? Is ur name truely mr. Soul?!?!?!
Confess!!!!!! What are u hiding!!!
Are u or are u not an engineer?

I want that on a T-Shirt. :D