not only that - if there's no free porn, everybody will have to pay for it - you do the math.

"The day you can make someone pay for porn is the day the internet dies..."

nonsense. video and print porn not to mention tobacco and cigarrette manufacturers have managed just fine for a very long time with out ever giving away free product.

if you look at the REAL economy - nothing is free. the internet is moving in this direction - you can no longer watch news coverageon CNN if you don't pay. it's just that the internet is young, and it takes some time to get there, but it will. and it will never die lol

forget about everyone paying for even a tiny bit of porn. instead, imagine everything the same, but only people with cc's have access to the 'free porn' area of the www. still a much better prequalification than all the kids and 3rd world surfers with no cc's (and so know way of purchasing memberships).

Credit cards are a poor way of verifying if someone is of legal age or not.

"A system that relied on SS #'s or similar information would be shot down as too invasive of your privacy. So if you can't use credit cards because it's discriminatory against poor people and you can't use SS #'s and/or other information because it invades your privacy to surf anonymously, what do you use?"

then explain to me how car rental agencies and hotels seem to get away with credit card requirements? i'm also finding your whole credit card argument to be more specious reasoning. there are many other non cc payment methods available to the avarage person looking for sexual entertainment on the Internet.

true, and this is the least beneficial scenario

your CC company knows if you are of legal age or not. it's VERY easy to construct a database of CC numbers of people that are 18+ and grant access to porn sites only to those CCs.

correction - you don't even have to construct such a database - you just need to add a couple of lines of SQL code to the regular query and bingo - only people 18+ have access to porn.

i was just about to say the same thing. sure, not all surfers have cc's... but it is possible to verify all surfers with cc's are over 18.

ok you got me, the internet will never die ;) but you must admit that free porn is the #1 application of the internet -- and you can't just expect to make it disappear. As long as I can email dirty pictures to a friend -- there's no way an AVS law is going to mean shit.

it can't be difficult - just a couple more lines of SQL code - check if value in age column in the CC database > 18 and problem is solved

It would seem inevitable. The US has restrictions on what can and cannot be published in both traditional media and on the internet. Minors aren't supposed to see x-rated movies or buy x-rated magazines. Why should an x-rated web site be any different?

What pornography 'is' has already been defined, internet pornography is no different than traditional pornography in my mind. Of course its defnition will always be changing with the social norms of the times and place but I don't see why it shouldn't apply to pornography on the internet as well as published media.

So yes, I do think that the US, UK, Canada, etc, etc, etc will all expect some manner of adult verification in order to access adult content on the internet. And frankly it sounds good to me. I don't have any children (knock knock on wood ;-) but if I did I wouldn't want them going to the store to buy adult magazines, renting porn movies or browsing porn web sites. A little tease? sure. Peeking at the cover of a saucy magazine off of the top rack? what the heck. A steamy 3 page tour? ok... adds spice to growing pains. Full hardcore midget gangbangs? er... are you over 18 yet?

I don't know if the existing AVS systems are right or wrong for the job. Probably better than nothing. I know that you don't need a credit card to get a CyberAge membership, they've got a mail-in option (send them a copy of your drivers license).

cheers

"As long as I can email dirty pictures to a friend -- there's no way an AVS law is going to mean shit."

but realistically, how many pictures and video clips and hentai and can people trade in personal email? especially when it's so much easier to view it from some one elses' server? my god man! you're dealing in a product people want and always want. surely you can advertise it without giving away the store.

exactly

and what's more - if it wasn't for 9/11 and all the terrorist bull going on, this would have happened by now. but it's not too late ;)

pretty much. however, the p-2-p type of thing is still dangerous. but again, their are ways to combat that problem too. we're actually working on it right now :)

Like you guys really give a shit if some horny 16 y/o steals his Mom's Visa card to see chicks on the bangbus...

You guys are all full of shit -- you are just greedy fucks -- and your greed will only turn on you -- the more the government gets into regulation of your rights and internet access -- the more fucked up the ass you will be down the line --

Regulation is BAD! -- it slows innovation, it slows traffic... free trade is how we make money in the world! You make an AVS law, there will be fewer creative sites, fewer ideas, LESS INNOVATION! I'm honestly ashamed for many of you to support government intervention.

If it does happen -- I can GUARANTEE that you will not make more money and you will be sorry that it ever happened. You are SHORT-SIGHTED GREEDY FUCKS! To me it's a simple FACT that the internet is based on SURFING -- and if you try to regulate SURFING, YOU HAVE LESS TRAFFIC... It's very simple.

i don't think you're addressing me - but i am not worried about making more or less money, regardless of what is to come. i started this thread because i think it is an interesting question... i'm close to be being done with porn all together.

traffic is bullshit - what is important is the bottom line, and yes, we are in this industry for profit - how about you, Fly ;)

"Regulation is BAD! -- it slows innovation, it slows traffic... free trade is how we make money in the world! You make an AVS law, there will be fewer creative sites, fewer ideas, LESS INNOVATION! I'm honestly ashaed for many of you to support government intervention. "

first of all. there's a big difference between free trade and giving things away for free. the word "trade" should be a clue. as far as innovation and creativity goes, i think you'll find adult publications have long been platforms for progressive art, literature and interviews. you find controversial coverage in adult publications all the time.

If we have an AVS law:

Who decides what AVS system is "US Government Approved"?
What government agency will regulate AVS sites?
How will the government approve new AVS technology or alternatives?

I honestly think these questions will never be asked -- the web is only a fragment of the internet -- and if you take away free porn on the web -- HTTP just becomes less important to the porn industry as a whole and there will be movement to free porn via other methods. And you better believe that I would exploit all of them ;)

What is to stop someone from opening a FREE AVS site???

I verify your age -- now you have access to my FREE TGP! HAHA...

Dude, why bother arguing. Many people are just seeing $$$ signs. They couldn't give a shit about free speech, the constitution, or you.

Do what I do when dealing with stuff like this.

Light a candle.

have you read any of my recent posts? i think that would be great. on a very large scale.

yes - the last thing you should be worrying about is profit, if you're in this biz.

lol

there are two different points being rallied around here: age verification and payment for porn. are these two different issues? do some actually feel that children under a certain age are some sort of real client base? who on god's earth are you trying to serve your porn to? why (as said before) do you think porn should be free? alcohol isn't free. videos aren't free. the cinema isn't free. porn is a form of entertainment. it's not a right.

10 years ago nobody was on the internet and we still gave away free porn on BBS's by Zmodem -- most newbies haven't even heard of Zmodem -- and 10 years from now AVS will be yet another forgotten acronym.

Save your breath -- light a candle.

If you think money is more important than freedom, then that's totally your right. However, if everyone thought like that, you wouldn't have the freedom today to sell porn and make the money you're making.

the difference being, now there are *many* people getting/wanting free porn. who cares about a small minority of geeks? they can (and will) pirate my content - i don't give a fuck.

And yes -- porn is a right.

I AM PORN!

okay pal. i am a huge free speech proponent. if you've read any of my posts, it would be pretty obvious.

wtf are you even talking about - porn is a business, like any other.

Yeah -- and that's SO TRUE. Some people don't remember the early days -- the only reason the web became popular was because everything was free. Nobody wants to pay for access to the internet only to pay for more access... Door to door dialer salesmen would make more money ;p

mr thefly. i think i understand the point your are trying to make. you are worried about the free exchange of ideas and information that is the spirit of the internet. i just think you worry too much. i believe that will still continue. the web is an entertainment medium and it will adapt to the models of print, television, radio and other forms of "free" entertainment. it will be paid for by advertising. those who wish get their content without advertising or those who wish to get things like porn or cyber casino access or more advanced online gaming systems will have to shell out the bucks. but little pages with dangerous ideas will always be out there. light a candle for that.

what a crock of shit. the early days. yes, i was there. big fucking deal. get over the 'early days'. they are gone lol.

i'm going to cry now

What about literature? Books like Lolita, The Ice Storm, Anne Rice novels, Slaughterhouse Five, Fountainhead, etc.?

Should you have to show your credit card before you can read books online too?

Remember, I'm just naming famous books above. Now, with the web, there are millions of authors publishing books every year. Should you have to show ID before you see any or all of these books?

What is porn? Anything that offends you?

This is a never ending argument.

You are either for more freedom, or less freedom. Either one has its problems. I tend to think that we need to err on the side of more, not less freedom.

Who cares if someone is offended? Tough shit. Adults have a right to access offensive material under the constitution.

Any AVS system that blocks adults from seeing legal material, if it was required by federal law, would be unconstitutional.

Again, look at the library filtering case. You can't use a system that also filters out legal content for adults. Every system available today would do just that.

but by all means, treat it as a public service - unlike many here, it doesn't bother me. infact i like that attitude :) just make's me more money at the expense of 'freedom' lol.

lol, so true - we all loved free shit - i was in school in the early days and those free papers posted by university professors all over the net were very useful, yes, but they are gone now. it may seem impossible now but free email will be gone pretty soon too. and the main point is - if you make enough money in this business, which should be the main idea - you won't give a damn about freebies because you'll be able to pay for every service you need and not even notice - think about that for a while before bitching about the good ol' days.

"Should you have to show your credit card before you can read books online too? "

yes. those authors you mentioned deserve to be paid as much as any. what is this problem you have with credit cards? are you from a country where they don't have them or something?

$$$ > FREEDOM :1orglaugh