Looking to purchase this video camera!

[Sebastian Sands]

No Moving Parts for HD shoots.

It uses 3 wide aspect CCDs for true 16:9 recordings. It has a wide angle Leica Dicomar 13x Zoom lens with advanced glass coatings. The most significant advance is that it uses the P2 memory cards for recording. This disk based recording medium makes the video immediately accessible to non-linear systems leaving behind a digitizing process that tape always required.


*Click pic for more specs

It shoots regular DV, DVC Pro 50, DVCPRO HD and 29.7 fps as well as 24 fps.

Does anyone shoot with this camera?

[pussyluver]

Looks like it was made for porn!

[Sebastian Sands]

Originally Posted by pussyluver

Looks like it was made for porn!

It might be a bit much for porn but all in all I think it looks like a kick ass camera with plenty of options.

No one using this camera yet?

[Toonlogos]

Be prepared for a lot of card swapping.

[leg4]

We owe and shoot with it...

Very nice camera.

[Anal Hobbit]

Why buy when you can rent it??

For free.

See sig.

[The Ghost]

Panasonic puts out QUALITY products, but if I remember right you can only get like 7-10 minutes or so on a card. I don't have any doubts it's not awesome if that fits in with your shooting style.

[inthecrack]

I almost bought the predecessor to this camera. I found image stabalization better with Sony cameras. I'm sticking with Sony for video.

[shuki]

is 7-10 mins really all you can get on a card?

[sweetgirl2006]

[Vitasoy]

That is a sweet ass cam

[NTSS]

Originally Posted by Sebastian Sands

No Moving Parts for HD shoots.

It uses 3 wide aspect CCDs for true 16:9 recordings. It has a wide angle Leica Dicomar 13x Zoom lens with advanced glass coatings. The most significant advance is that it uses the P2 memory cards for recording. This disk based recording medium makes the video immediately accessible to non-linear systems leaving behind a digitizing process that tape always required.


*Click pic for more specs

It shoots regular DV, DVC Pro 50, DVCPRO HD and 29.7 fps as well as 24 fps.

Does anyone shoot with this camera?

Translation please..........

[SgtStrider]

dude thats beyond gonzo...thats feature film shit right there

[SgtStrider]

if you have a sony vx2100 hit me up, i need another one

[KRL]

Looks awesome!

[The Ghost]

Originally Posted by shuki

is 7-10 mins really all you can get on a card?

Actually, it did say 16 minutes in the specs for the 4 gb card, but I remember reading somewhere on the highest quality it was less. Not to mention the 4 gb card is $600. It also records in Mini DV as well.

[gooddomains]

How much is this gadget ?

[Sebastian Sands]

They have 8 gig cards now too, I like the fact I can choose what I want to shoot. HD or regular mini DV. I looked at the Sony and even though it is a lot cheaper, it's HD all the way through no choice.

They also just came out with a 100 gig hard drive that is "walkman" size and clips on your belt. with that you can record about 100 minutes of HD. Imagine how much that is in regular DV.

[Sebastian Sands]

Originally Posted by Anal Hobbit

Why buy when you can rent it??

For free.

See sig.

You Sir are an idiot.

[madawgz]

Originally Posted by pussyluver

Looks like it was made for porn!

it really does

[Cash]

How much does it cost? Isn't it too expensive? A $800 digital mini-DVD camcorder can also do the job ... Is it for professional use or for amateur/family use?

[gandalfuy]

thats a nice model

[The Ghost]

Originally Posted by gooddomains

How much is this gadget ?

About $6k without all the accessories. $10k with everything.

[newbreed]

Originally Posted by Sebastian Sands

I like the fact I can choose what I want to shoot. HD or regular mini DV. I looked at the Sony and even though it is a lot cheaper, it's HD all the way through no choice.

The Sony Z1 allows you to choose between HDV or SD both recording and/or playback (the one I shoot with does anyway). You are not limited on the high-end Sony's to one format or another...

[bmchunu]

Looks good ... but must be pretty pricey

[Sebastian Sands]

Originally Posted by newbreed

The Sony Z1 allows you to choose between HDV or SD both recording and/or playback (the one I shoot with does anyway). You are not limited on the high-end Sony's to one format or another...

Thanks New Breed going to look that one up now and read some reviews on it. However I am really leaning towards this one right now, storage management will be a bit different instead of having tons of tapes I would need plenty of external HD's to store all the raw.

[DBS.US]

Sony Z1
http://www.vasst.com/HDV/hdv_z1_images.htm

[Cash]

Sony is preferable to Panasonic, and for the type you want, Sony has this awesome product:
Sony Professional HVR-Z1U 3 CCD HD Camcorder

nice piece of equipment

[Sebastian Sands]

The Z1 looks very interesting too.

[tony286]

the z1 is garbage compared to the panny and you can also shoot sd with the panny also and its real 24 p which the z1 is

[Sebastian Sands]

Originally Posted by tony404

the z1 is garbage compared to the panny and you can also shoot sd with the panny also and its real 24 p which the z1 is

I noticed that also. Do you shoot with this camera Tony?

[newbreed]

Originally Posted by tony404

the z1 is garbage compared to the panny and you can also shoot sd with the panny also and its real 24 p which the z1 is

You have got to be kidding me Tony. How much video have you shot with either of those 2 cameras? I'm curious, seriously, how much HDV (or even SD) footage have you shot, dumped, and edited, and released for viewing in the last 6 months?

To say the Z1 is "garbage" compared to that or ANY other camera currently available for less than $10k has got to be a joke.

If your argument is for web use I can almost understand where you're coming from. I know for months you have been knocking HDV cameras and the viability of the content for web use, but come on man, get with the times. Those $700.00 cameras people buy from Best Buy or ChumpUSA that tout HDV "capabilities" and "life-like 24p" shooting mode, those are nothing like the professional level Sony models out for purchase now.

The Z1 is equal to or better than the Panny shown above, and that comes from someone who has actually used both, and prefers the Sony for many, many reasons.

[hezochiah]

I got my XL2 a year ago and I was torn between that and the Z1 because they were about the same price. I ended up going with the XL2 because I felt it was still a little early for HDV and I figured I could make back the money the XL2 cost by the time I upgraded. The Z1 was very tempting though and if I'm not mistaken it also has the option for NTSC or Pal shooting as well. For about $5000 it looked like a great buy.

[MaddCaz]

looks nice!

[J. Falcon]

Cool camera

[tony286]

Originally Posted by newbreed

You have got to be kidding me Tony. How much video have you shot with either of those 2 cameras? I'm curious, seriously, how much HDV (or even SD) footage have you shot, dumped, and edited, and released for viewing in the last 6 months?

To say the Z1 is "garbage" compared to that or ANY other camera currently available for less than $10k has got to be a joke.

If your argument is for web use I can almost understand where you're coming from. I know for months you have been knocking HDV cameras and the viability of the content for web use, but come on man, get with the times. Those $700.00 cameras people buy from Best Buy or ChumpUSA that tout HDV "capabilities" and "life-like 24p" shooting mode, those are nothing like the professional level Sony models out for purchase now.

The Z1 is equal to or better than the Panny shown above, and that comes from someone who has actually used both, and prefers the Sony for many, many reasons.

your a really nice guy but you dont know what your talking about ,the panny blows the z1 away and it shoots in real hd not a crap hd like format made for comsumers which hdv is. Sony does not shoot in true 24 p to get the features of the panny you would have buy a varicam which is much more expensive. I have seen footage shot from both by professionals not gonzo porn makers and the hdv is weak.

[tony286]

Hdv is a gimmick currently used in porn to mean quality and it doesnt, there is a good chance by 3rd gen hdv will be no more like hi 8. My friend works in real tv as a fulltime free lancer and he is shooting beta cam and he is booked til dec straight.

[Mike_AWP]

nice...

[tony286]

from a article when the panny was launched


The Choices
What an embarrassment of riches. At this time last year, there was exactly one low-priced high-definition camera on the market, the much-berated JVC HD1/HD10. Last July the Canon XL2 was introduced. Now, just 9 months later, we have the Sony FX1, the Sony Z1, the JVC HD100, and now the Panasonic HVX200 to choose from. How do they stack up?

Any comparison is ultimately meaningless until we get the footage to compare. But that doesn?t mean people won?t spend months debating statistics, so we?ll throw in some info, (or, ?fuel for the fire?):

Recording format:
The Sony FX1 and Z1 use HDV at 1080i. The JVC uses ProHD at 720p. ProHD is basically HDV, except with an extension to allow 24p recording. The Panasonic uses DVCPRO-HD. HDV is a brand new format, whereas DVCPRO-HD has been around for at least four years. ProHD is even newer than HDV.

There are numerous specifications and ?number arguments? that people can get into. We prefer to ignore that, and instead focus on the actual ramifications involved with each camera. We?ll wait for a shipping camera to perform a three-camera review, side-by-side, so we can find out what ?really matters,? i.e. the footage, versus arguing statistics and specifications.

Uncompressed Output:
All three cameras offer uncompressed high-definition output on the component video outputs. The Sony offers 1080i, the JVC offers 720/60p (which can also be cross-converted to 1080/60i), and the Panasonic offers native 1080/60i and 720/60p (as well as the ability to cross-convert 720/60p over to 1080/60i). For uncompressed output the Sony is the most limited, the Panasonic the most flexible, but recording uncompressed output is no trivial task: it requires the ability to capture and record approximately 166 megabytes per second, or about 70x as much data as gets stored on an HDV tape. For the vast majority of users, uncompressed output is likely to be completely irrelevant. For live studio switching it could be quite handy.

Frame Rates:
The Sony FX1 and Z1 shoot 1080i only. That means interlaced-only video, or ?the video look?. They have some in-camera modes to simulate progressive-scan for 25p or 30p at lower resolution, and a poor in-camera 24p simulation that results in unnatural motion rendition. The Sony interlaced footage can be processed in post to simulate 24p, and some very good programs exist to do that, but all require sacrificing resolution, and the end results will not match true 24hz progressive-scan.

The JVC HD100 shoots progressive only, at 24p or 30p. No provision is made for the ?video look?, which would require 60p or 60i. It?s not clear why they didn?t provide for 60p recording, as 60p is supported by the HDV standard, but in our view it?s a huge mistake on their part not to include it. The HD100 can make filmlike footage at 24p, but won?t be able to shoot the ?reality? look for reality TV, news, event coverage, etc. Very curious limitation. This means there will likely be many types of paying jobs that the JVC will not be able to be used on.

The HVX200 supports everything the other cameras do, and much more. It supports both 1080i and 720p, and also 1080p (utilizing 2:3 or 2:3:3:2 pulldown within the 1080i recording, similar to how the DVX and XL2 implement 24p and 30p). It supports many more frame rates, including 60p, as well as variable frame rates in the 720p mode. And using DVCPRO-HD instead of HDV means it can record twice as much color information, and doesn?t suffer from any MPEG motion artifacts, unlike the other two cameras. In addition, perhaps one of the most exciting and most underrated features is that the Panasonic also offers a low-compression (3.3:1) high-color-resolution standard-definition recording format, DVCPRO50. DVCPRO50 is approximately equivalent to Digital Betacam as a recording medium, and offers 4:2:2 color sampling and very mild compression, for exceptionally clean, rich standard-definition recording. (for more info on DVCPRO50, see pages 134-143 of the SMPTE/EBU paper at http://www.smpte.org/engineering_com.../tfrpt2w6.pdf). The HVX can record 24P and 30P in all modes, and 60i in all modes except high-def 720, where it instead records 60p.

Audio:
The HDV format specifies that two tracks of audio (one stereo pair) are recorded in 16-bit 48Khz, and then compressed at a ratio of 4:1 using MPEG-1 Layer II audio compression. The Sony and the JVC both adhere to this specification, and as such, when shooting high-definition video, they can only offer compressed audio.

The Panasonic offers the ability to record four tracks of audio (or two stereo pairs) in 16-bit 48Khz quality, completely uncompressed. Considering the HVX?s predecessor (the DVX100) was consistently praised for its audio quality, it?s a fair bet to say that the HVX will match it, and providing two additional tracks puts the Panasonic squarely at the forefront. We?ll have to test the cameras to make sure they?re delivering ?the goods?, but as far as specifications on paper go, the Panasonic is far ahead of the other cameras.

Lens/form factor:
The JVC HD100?s main claim to fame is that it sports an interchangeable lens, something neither the HVX nor the Sony cameras offer. The HD100?s lens choices are currently limited to two Fujinons, although a ½? bayonet mount adapter will be made available which will let you use ½? lenses. We wonder if JVC hasn?t totally stolen Canon?s thunder ? what?s left for Canon to do with an ?XL3?, now that JVC has made a (relatively) low-cost interchangeable-lens camera in the HDV format? Perhaps Canon will respond with a 1080i or 1080/24p version? That would be curious, seeing as HDV makes no provision for 24P, and JVC had to invent their own format (ProHD) to provide it. Maybe Canon will adopt ProHD?

Meanwhile, the Sony and Panasonic cameras all share a similar handheld form factor, as opposed to the JVC camera?s shoulder-mount form factor. The Sony sports a Carl Zeiss 12x lens, the Panasonic offers a Leica 13x lens. The Panasonic offers true mechanical manual zoom, whereas the Sony offers a servo-driven zoom with a simulated manual zoom ring.

Recording Medium:
The Sony offers recording to tape, and only to tape. The JVC offers recording to tape, and also an optional onboard hard disk recorder. Both cameras can also be fitted with an external FireStore HDV-compatible hard disk recorder, but that FireStore is not the type of device you would hand over to a client at the end of a shoot, it?s more for personal use and in-house recording.

The Panasonic offers miniDV tape for recording, and P2 memory cards for high-def (and standard-def DVCPRO25 and DVCPRO50) recording. It can also transfer files from the P2 card directly to an off-the-shelf USB 2.0 external hard disk, or to a potentially-forthcoming FireStore type of device.

Which to buy?
That?s the eternal question. As for answers, it?s hard to give one until we know what the footage looks like from each camera. To even continue this discussion, we have to presume that the footage from the cameras will at least be competitive with each other. Without making that assumption, no amount of conjecture makes sense.

However, one thing seems clear to us: with only a $49 difference in price, it becomes much more difficult to understand why someone would consider the Sony Z1 over the HVX200, unless you absolutely positively have to record some type of high-definition footage on tape, or you absolutely cannot wait for the Panasonic to come on the market (sometime in the fourth quarter 2005). When compared head-to-head with the Sony, the Panasonic also offers 1080i recording (but with twice the color sampling and no MPEG artifacts or dropouts). Additionally it offers genuine 24p and 30p recording, and 720p recording in variable frame rates. In standard-definition the Sony offers regular DV, and so does the Panasonic ? but the Panasonic also offers 4:2:2 DVCPRO50 recording (which should make for superb DVDs). The HVX200 has a longer lens, true manual control of the lens instead of Sony?s ?simulated? manual zoom, records true uncompressed audio (and twice as many tracks, at that) and costs virtually the same. If you?ve absolutely got to have high-definition recorded to a miniDV tape, and it?s got to be 1080i interlaced video, and you don?t mind the lower color sampling, then the Sony still makes sense for that purpose. And the Sony FX1, at a roughly $3,200 street price, is clearly the value leader. But otherwise, the Panasonic does everything the Sonys do, and an unbelievable amount more. For 24P or 30P users, filmmakers, commercial producers, etc., there?s no question, the Panasonic has the Sony beat all around .

[newbreed]

Originally Posted by tony404

your a really nice guy but you dont know what your talking about ,the panny blows the z1 away and it shoots in real hd not a crap hd like format made for comsumers which hdv is. Sony does not shoot in true 24 p to get the features of the panny you would have buy a varicam which is much more expensive. I have seen footage shot from both by professionals not gonzo porn makers and the hdv is weak.

Read what I wrote again about the features Tony..

Then feel free to browse through google for a few hours and read up on the camera... CineFrame is a wonderful thing if 24p is really necessary (however realistically it isn't used much for what we do on the web, if at all).

"That said, there are plenty of reasons why even high-end pros might be interested in a closer look at this highly capable hardware. Among its list of new and unique features, perhaps the most interesting concept is the way Sony has tipped its hat to the many shops still using good old standard-definition DV. The HVR-Z1U (heck, let?s just call it the Z1 for brevity?s sake, with apologies to BMW and Minolta) is format agnostic, at least when DV is concerned, because it can record and play back HDV and DVCam in all its flavors including 60i, 50i, 30 frames, 25 or 24 frames. But the most impressive feat of this camcorder is its magnificent HD footage."

Then read on down below that where it references the info for 24p...

http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/a...e.jsp?id=29230

"The HVR-Z1 is unique in its ability to record HDV and DVCAM images at 60i, 50i, 30, 25 or 24 frames per second-in either SD or HD. Switchable 60/50 capability is an advantage for anyone who needs to satisfy clients in both 60i/50i and NTSC/PAL HD and SD applications."

http://www.promax.com/Products/Detail/19008

I wonder now why it took almost a month to even find one of these in the US when they were first released. All the camera stores that advertised them could not keep them in stock because studios all over the country had pre-ordered 5 and 10 at a time. Most reality TV series are shot with these cameras, a few motion pictures have also been shot with them. I would motion to say that if it was a shitty camera, and HDV was a crappy format, that a lot of people have blown a lot of money on a lot of new Z1's over the last few months...

I'm too tired tonight to go back and forth, but I will swing back by tomorrow to finish this post up.

[newbreed]

Originally Posted by tony404

Hdv is a gimmick currently used in porn to mean quality and it doesnt, there is a good chance by 3rd gen hdv will be no more like hi 8. My friend works in real tv as a fulltime free lancer and he is shooting beta cam and he is booked til dec straight.

Yeah and every article in the mainstream press about any kind of HD camera just happens to use the "HDV" term, because all those articles are aimed right at us porn producers! Same with all those sales ads aimed at camera buyers, I'm sure those are all porn shooters too...lol

Gimmick -

[tony286]

of you took the time to read one of the articles you posted:
Notice that ithahaha8217;s not actually able to shoot in 24p, but then this is not a bad thing at all.
No matter what bullshit he says after this it doesnt do it.

The z1 doesnt shoot true progessive and the reason there was a rush because there was no competition at the time.
The red chilli peppers video was shot with two hvx200.
Im not going back and forth anymore because I know what Im talking about, the z1 is a good camera but it doesnt compare to the panny.

[latinasojourn]

Originally Posted by The Ghost

Actually, it did say 16 minutes in the specs for the 4 gb card, but I remember reading somewhere on the highest quality it was less. Not to mention the 4 gb card is $600. It also records in Mini DV as well.

i don't know much about video, but if it has firewire out why can't you record directly to a big HD in a high end laptop if you want to avoid tape?

i mean, is this possible?

[tony286]

Originally Posted by newbreed

Yeah and every article in the mainstream press about any kind of HD camera just happens to use the "HDV" term, because all those articles are aimed right at us porn producers! Same with all those sales ads aimed at camera buyers, I'm sure those are all porn shooters too...lol

Gimmick -

Because there were no true hd camera's under 10 grand now there are. Porn shooters throw out the word HD like oh its special now,thats what I meant. My friend who is a professional tv videographer said many of the stations will not accept hdv tape.When it was used it becuase there was no other low cost option at the time now thats changed. He calls HDV a weak format and he shoots for cnn, espn, nbc, abc, pay per view sports events etc. This is why I will never buy the first gen of anything again I got burnt with e10 and learned my lesson.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by latinasojourn

i don't know much about video, but if it has firewire out why can't you record directly to a big HD in a high end laptop if you want to avoid tape?

i mean, is this possible?

yes a few options are coming out

[leg4]

If anyone here wants to ask Me about this cam,...shoot me an e-mail.

[pornguy]

One of the issues that I see with some of the new HD cameras is that the cards can not keep up with the storage needed. My 20D shoots in 8.5 mp, and with a 1 gig card it is gone in no time. I had to get a 6 gig card.

[tony286]

http://www.focusinfo.com/solutions/catalog.asp?id=150

[Sebastian Sands]

Tony404 hit me up on ICQ when you have a minute!