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Bingo. No need to reinvent the wheel when you can just repackage itOriginally posted by maxjohanSome will buy porn and some will not... it's as simple
as that. Different triggers for different people. Are you with me?
You can offer a free membership without creditcard and still
you will see people turn your membership down. Why is that??
You can offer surfers a site like Pornotube.com and you will see
that only a small 20% bookmark the site. Why is that??
It's not all about free porn, it's about "the package".
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So true. TGP webmasters relaying the risk (of a positive ROI) to the ones that buy traffic. Working great when they can rotate through hordes of willing submitters standing in line to pay for overpriced spots.Originally posted by DukeSkywalkerComment
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You really haven't a clue have you? It's VERY easy to make money in mainstream if you do it right. Our mainstream projects now make as much as the porn stuff and have been going for half the time. Sure - porn still does well but is much, much harder than it used to be and certainly no easier than mainstream.Originally posted by Tdog
It's just a matter of having a clue and getting it right. Sit and think about it properly - 'mainstream' is a generic term for just about everything else on the Internet and that's a HUGE area. Of course you can make good money in it and often it's much easier to do than porn these days.Last edited by Big John; 06-21-2006, 03:10 PM.
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The silence from AEBN is ear deafening...
Surfmastering : a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery
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Originally posted by Anthony
The "mom and pop" sites will never disappear, but in future they will be fewer in number and they will earn an income more in line with their real worth: ie a lot less than now, which in turn is already a lot less than 5+ years ago.
In terms of how online porn will develop as it matures as an industry, I'm not aware of anything to suggest it will prove to be in any way unique. If that development follows the usual route, then over the next 5-10 years there will be a lot of consolidation among the larger operators. Those that remain will hold a fairly lowly second tier because a handful of corporate-style businesses will emerge at the top of the tree (buying out some existing sites along the way). Finally there will remain many smaller sites, most much further down the economic ladder, working in specialist areas or servicing the bigger operations in some way. The discussion about free porn is basically irrelevant, not only for the reasons I gave in an earlier post, but because it is merely a symptom of more far-reaching changes.
How could it be otherwise? When an industry like this is new and there is an overwhelming excess of demand, sure someone with minimal relevant skills can sit down at a PC and with no investment but his (or her) time, make lots of money. But we have had 10 years of that already and it is naive to imagine it can continue.
If it's any consolation, many well-known names will disappear too because they will be unwilling or unable to adapt. And definitely on the plus side, once the industry has shaken itself out, drops the infighting of the last 3-5 years and starts looking outwards for new business again, total revenues will rise dramatically.Comment
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SEE MY RESPONSES UP TOP.Originally posted by jayeffComment
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Originally posted by David - PG
yes, but im starting to see that die off a tad. i dont see that model around forever. its a flawed model.
dukeComment
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The next 5 years belongs to the folks that can afford 1gbs or better pipes. The biz is about to change. I think the rest will have to give it away free and sell ads.I've trusted my sites to them for over a decade...
Webair, bitches.Comment
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This is why AEBN will succeed... of course AEBN will try and build things into their projects (storage limits, referal codes, reporting illegal content etc.), so it will look like they are working for the content owner. However its all smoke and mirrors, which serves to save their ass. However logic would have that if they didn´t build these "pirate bays", then there wouldn´t be a problem in the first placeOriginally posted by Mutt
But when you look at the bottomline, then ANY studio could make TONS more money by not handing over their product/content to a company, which does not work on maximizing profits. Another benefit would be control over the content... would you trust someone with your content who also run sites, which is designed for people to "share" content?
They can call it "web 2.0" or "the future" as much as they please, but its all old concepts. User driven content have been around since the internet was created, and before that on BBS, and even before that on disks, tapes, paper etc.
So what made the golden years in the 90s on the internet, if the concept of free was already around on planet earth? It was because business people knew that surfers were willing to pay for "quality, quantity, and convenience" (thanks shiloh451), so why bother with giving away free content?
Those who broke away from that ideal business concept, where surfers with their backdoor sites (ex. thehun started as a backdoor site). Can´t really blame them - no one did anything legal to stop them, and so today history repeats itself with AEBN´s desire to once again make "quality, quantity, and convenience" FREE to the surfers - all in the name of "quick traffic numbers" instead of "long term bottomline".Surfmastering : a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of miseryComment
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jayeff, you are one of the most intelligent people on gfyComment
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Wow..this is a great thread...lots of cool ideas from guys who have been thinking hard
To be honest, I'm not a bit surprised at ANY of the changes that are happening.. Could have predicted all of this several years ago
But I'm coming from the small operator point of view.. I just have small sites with original content...no affiliate programs...and make a solid income since probably 98-99 ish
lately I'm making less money...but that's just because I'm lazy..not cuz the paying customers are disappearing
You MUSt understand the psychology of the paying customer to make it in this biz
The paying customer uses money for power.. He wants power over his life...He uses money to control his time spent...He will spend money just to save time
Also, the paying customer is often a collector...He will pay good money just to make a seemingly small addition to his collections
The free porno surfer is the exact opposite..The free porno surfer thinks "why do all those suckers pay 30 dollars when they can just spend all day looking for the same content for free?" This is the psychology of a loser ..ignore these people. These are the same people that will spend thousands of dollars fixing up an old car that always breaks down...and never get enough money together to just buy a new fucking car.
100,000s of thousands of images....100s of hours of video..>BIG DEAL.. THe paying surfer will fork out 30 dollars for just a few photo sets of a girl he likes....or a certain fetish he has..Thats it... One girl sells your site...or one fetish sellls your site...NO need to be Wal-Mart
I agree with the previous poster about Type in Traffic becoming more and more important
and I also think that pay per view...or pay per download type of thing will be very important.
The feeder site/ affiliate/ tgp idea is dying...I think you need one main site with a URL that surfers will remember and type in...
I always made the best money just by producing good content and constantly updating...That's really the key...just KEEP PRODUCING GOOD CONTENT AND CONSTANTLY UPDATE...PERIOD
Brand your URL...burn that URL into people's brains..make sure they remember it and type it in...and will check back every week or month or even every year...But make sure they check back.
Don't get obsessed with rebills...Lots of paying customers sign up....cancel...and then sign up again six months later. Don't obsess on rebills...Just keep producing good content and the paying customers almost ALWAYS return.
Ok I'm done rambling
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amalekite - some good points in there
Surfmastering : a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of miseryComment
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sites should always have there video content watermarked, and even if it is used for free then it becomes a good viral technique
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Choppas ICQ: 283 090 747 Want to know more? [email protected]Comment
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Good post.Originally posted by Lazonby
Try to start a program and not give out any free content, see how long it lasts.
People you sell a product of jerking off for $1 a day. How bad are you at selling or how bad is your product that you can't sell a wank for $1?
Think about it for 10 seconds and then ask yourself, why is the surfer going to a free site to look at piles and pilse of shite, when for $1 a day he could join a site?
Maybe becasue he's been conned, let down, disappointed after spending $1 that he now thinks "Fuck You" I'm keeping my money.
So long as you worship the God of traffic, you will always have this situation.
If you really want to stop "Free Porn" effecting your income. Start giving the member so much genuine value he will not bother with free porn.Comment
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I will now go back and read the rest of the thread, but what's the betting on most of the people complaining about "Free porn" are giving it away themselves.
So there free porn is alright and other peoples free porn is bad.
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I want to marry you and have your babies.Originally posted by jayeff
For 6 years now I have argued up the quality of the content we sell to members and all I get in return is told I'm arrogant and think I'm the only guy who can shoot porn. Also any fool can shoot porn if he has a camera. Now you are running scared of a site that looks like a piece of shit.
My take on this is simple.
If you think the new surfer is never signing up and going straight to this kind of site to jerk off without ever moving up to a paysite you really do not have a clue.
If you're saying that after joining a few sites the surfer would rather jerk off to content on this site then you do have a clue. Now who's fault is that?
We had the surfer as a member and then we lost him.Comment
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There are a lot of overpriced spots but people keep on buying, thinking that hopefully one day the spot will be profitable for them.Originally posted by David - PGComment
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sorry bud, we protect our content. go download it. it wont work in GUBA or anything else.Originally posted by RoloCould you please wait as I upload all the videos from euro revenue to AEBN´s Guba 2.0, and then we can talk again?
ThanksComment
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Yes i consider it stupid shit. there is a lot more free porn on the web then that one website will ever be able to index. so why cry about this specific site? seems pretty petty and pointless to me. There will always be battles to fight in business. the strong previal, the weak will vanish. I plan and hope to be in the first of those two groups for as long as possible. but your more then welcome to throw in the towel about this site. more for the rest of us.Originally posted by AnthonyYou consider this thread stupid shit?
Do you work for AEBN?
no i dont work for AEBN, not even close.Comment
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If you can see it on your screen, then it can be copiedOriginally posted by Why
Surfmastering : a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of miseryComment
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Thanks for clarifying your position, seen it before, and it's the same lack of foresight that got us into this position of even more than before.Originally posted by Why
I would enjoy revisiting this topic with you in a few years. That is if you are still around.
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Problem with this comparison is so few people on the Adult Net can sell porn. Yes they can deliver it like the truck delivers the water, but selling it is a little more complex.Originally posted by BoogieCFZComment
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I am finding new found admiration for you.Originally posted by Paul Markham
Out of the hundreds of Noobs I helped back in the day at Netpond, not many are left. I can count on one hand.
You are so right.
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There is no money in the industry.Obey the CowgodComment
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VERY well said, I fully agree on thatOriginally posted by jayeffComment
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1000% WRONG.Originally posted by biftek
And 100% why we are in this situation. We have over advertised and over marketed an inferior product to the extent that a shit free site is stealing paying surfers.
Go away and think a bit harder.Comment
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Originally posted by Paul Markham
pricisely
Everyone hate me because I make sites with very low content % and I trade a lot of my traffic...
If just everyone would back up a bit again and people once again would be annoyed by the crappy content % on tgp's and mgp's they would actually consider buying shit again.
Right now they really don't have to consider this.
This industry is drowning.ICQ# 143561781Comment
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No whining about things instead of changing them is much more fun.Originally posted by Why
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Great post and I wanted to really high light this part. Unfortunately for most here they have little clue what you're talking about.Originally posted by shiloh451
They think more money is made by paying affiliates more, giving away more free content, cutting costs on content, using more pop ups and conning the surfer.
Making more money by "quality, quantity, and convenience. " Is like talking Latin to them.Comment
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We don't agree often, the moons must be in alignment.Originally posted by Paul Markham
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This is just the tip of the problem. The biggest problem is the way people selling memberships regard the actual product and the customer.Originally posted by Mutt
Look around at the content providers and tell me which ones are REALLY GOOD and could survive in the magazine or DVD fields. Look around at the prices paid. Look around at what some people expect from a shooter and model as a days work.
There are VERY FEW content providers earning a living selling to DVD or magazines. A solo girl set in the magazines can easily make $2,000, exclusive buyers want 10 sets for that price, think about the level of work from a porn aspect. DVD scenes can easily make more than that.
So why aren't more people who produce the ONLY PRODUCT THE SURFER WILL PAY FOR, working in the other fields? Either don't want to make the extra money, not good enough or don't have the brains to find out the phone number.
So are you really surprised that a large section of the market is scared about surfers who don't want to pay for such a great product? That was English irony.
You get what you build, for years we have been building this business to where it is now. So if surfers would rather get it for free from the crap site I saw who is to blame?Comment
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As you can see I now run a paysite and as many of you know I also run a content store, and pretty good at shooting. Not the best though.
What Eva and I did when we set out the budget for the paysite was build in a portion to buy in new non exclusive content for members. It's this simple, one rebill is worth $10 if it comes from an affiliate $25 if not.
We kicked off with 200 videos and 1500 sets from our stock of 300 vids and 2400 sets. The stuff we held back was for the 1 video and 2 sets a day we were adding.
The budget for buying in would be when we cleared our back log and need to buy in to augment our shooting.
We believed treating our customers well would be the right way to go.
Did it work with conversions and retentions? We moved it up to 2 videos and 4 sets a day recently, convert on all traffic 1:250 and retain over 7 weeks on average.
We also give away free watermarked content and get lots of type in traffic.
Treat the customer like a king and he will treat you like a friend.
We will also be developing something for the surfer who does not want to spend $30 to just jerk off once.Last edited by Paul Markham; 06-22-2006, 12:34 PM.Comment
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You made some excellent points in this thread.Originally posted by AnthonyComment
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Where do you see me saying we should make it easier to get high quality long clips.Originally posted by Pornwolf
if you can't understand what I am saying then no point in reading any further. Here are the cliff notes.
- free porn is not going away, bitching about it is a waste of time.
- sell something that can not be giving away for free (live content, interraction).
- Things will ALWAYS change, so you better as well or you will be left behind.
- There is an oppertunity to make money in everything, just takes a little creativity to find it. People who spend time bitching about problem instead of thinking of solution are never going to accomplish anything.ICQ: 86364801 Email: will [at] innovativeassets [dot] com
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this was a very insightful post, thanks shiloh.Originally posted by shiloh451I am fairly new to the webmaster business. My expertise comes from being a
porn surfer since the Internet stone age. I probably have a better porn collection on my HD than most pay sites can offer. The vast majority of that porn comes from paid memberships to sites I joined. The main reason I pulled out my CC was:
1) I was shown enough samples to get a read on the quality of the content, and yes that does require some hardcore content.
2)Usually when my interest moved in a new direction. I would start with surfing bbs,tgps,and mgps, to see what type of content was available in that niche.
3)I always started my collection with the free porn. One thing the industry does do right to get my $$ is make it tedious to collect the free stuff. After a while of wading through piles of shit looking for the free stuff and running around in circles, I would get bored and, focus on the sites I had run across that seem to have the best quality and quantity.
One other thing I might note if I hit a popup, popunder, or esp if someone went around my blocker it was fuck you, bye, forever. I hear about the sales people make with this shit but what about the permanent loss of sales from the pissed off surfer?
4)Then the CC would come out.
The point I am making is that people who are willing to pay for porn are paying for quality, quantity, and convenience.
As others have stated this does not necessarily apply to micro niches.
One thing I have noticed on this board is the willingness to out a scammer or cheater and the immediate condemnation by the members.
It seems to me that we as an industry are not powerless to control the webmasters who make it too easy for the surfer to get ENOUGH of the good stuff that they don't need to pay for it.
If you, as a webmaster, think that someone was giving away too much, pull their link, refuse to take their ads, get drama started on all the boards,etc.
Even someone as big as AEBN might have 2nd thoughts.
There is a massive number of good quality sites, run by honest webmasters.
We don't have to support anyone who we feel is doing real damage to the industry.
I observed the response on this board to the Met-Art cp drama and the Big Dildo rape drama.
IMHO there is no need for whining and hand wringing when there are steps that each one of us can take individually to make a difference.
Maybe I am too much of a NOOB to understand that when a program gets big enough they can make their own rules and the rest of us can get fucked.
Maybe,all webmasters are anarchists at heart and so are doomed to fail separately.
My . If anyone wants to educate this noob I alway willing to learn.
thanks to everyone else that had something intelligent to say as well.
it kinda sucks being part of the problem.
-John
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Ant you crack me upComment
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bump for this thread, the one who hasnt read it should go back and read it all!
gfynicky @ gmail.comComment
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Originally posted by Splum 
Iya Mallorca
[email protected]
ICQ: 212-175-124
800.934.4942 or +1.408.454.7716
Offshore Staff Leasing Services
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There's more money in porn than there used to be. Your premise is wrong.Comment
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Yeah, but you have to put things in perspective. For example the average Joe in my area is lucky to make $10 an hour working 40 hours a week. And that work is more than likely hard backbreaking work. Now if someone is making the same $400 a week only working 2 hours a day running their "mom & pop" tgp then aren't they ahead of the curve? Not only are they making the same money for LESS hours work, it's easier work and they can make their own schedule. If that $400 is not enough it's not like one couldn't get a real job for the other 30 hours and even if they made only $8 and hour their total income would equal $16 an hour which is 60% more than the average Joe in my area. So I guess it's all in how you look at it.Originally posted by jayeff
I have loads of free time. I suppose I could do less fucking around and get a job somewhere and earn some extra cash, but right now I choose not to. But at least it's a choice and not a necessity.Comment
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Thats your area. Some areas with a high cost of living will be affected much more. I think the point Jayeff was making was that mom and pops were making "STUPID money" up until a few years ago. I call it stupid money because it was so easy stupid people could make a lot of money doing it. Now with increased competition and more advertisers out there (big and small) to be successful you need to be very intelligent and savy at what you do. You also need to have more resources available to you (money to invest and staff to employee). I am not saying this is the way it is in all cases but there are less and less ways to make money online that involve spending a couple hours of work and no money (like making a simple webpage and submitting it to yahoo, those days are gone.) NOW in most cases, you need the resources and intelligence to make it.Originally posted by GatorB
mom and pop's typicaly do not have those resources or intelligence to evolve and keep making a lot of money. Therefore, when their checks drop a good bit of them will quit and go back to their professions, especially those who live in a high cost of living location where a couple hundred a month isn't even enough to pay the rent.ICQ: 86364801 Email: will [at] innovativeassets [dot] com
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Yes I believe I stated that many times.Originally posted by will76
This is not new. Almost every new industy had an era of "stupid money". Then it matures and most of the competition drops out.Some areas with a high cost of living will be affected much more. I think the point Jayeff was making was that mom and pops were making "STUPID money" up until a few years ago. I call it stupid money because it was so easy stupid people could make a lot of money doing it. Now with increased competition and more advertisers out there (big and small) to be successful you need to be very intelligent and savy at what you do.
Once again happens in every industy. Improvements in farming technology means less farmers were needed. Most had to give up and go work in a factory. How many mom & pop "5 & dime" stores have gone under because Wal-Mart, Fred's, Dollar Store etc moved into town?mom and pop's typicaly do not have those resources or intelligence to evolve and keep making a lot of money. Therefore, when their checks drop a good bit of them will quit and go back to their professions, especially those who live in a high cost of living location where a couple hundred a month isn't even enough to pay the rent.
Those that can survive will, those that can't will have to move on. Just the way it is.Comment
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so you agree with me
ICQ: 86364801 Email: will [at] innovativeassets [dot] com
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Seems to me these sites are a legal nightmare and will eventually get boxed into a corner by the government
thats not before they give away everyones farm first, but the concept of letting any random yahoo upload whatever porn files they want and then playing them publicly sounds like a really bad idea to me if you don't like courtroomsComment
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AEBN's answer on another board about pornotube.com
Please notice the part where they say, if you aren't a partner of AEBN, sorry charlie.
Of course!
Beta Phase II features should be rolled out over the next week (maybe two because of the holiday) that will dispel a lot of the fear and loathing you see going on. Of course, I'm talking about the real fear and loathing - not the manufactured nonsense spouted by certain people who have agendas.
My internal motto for x/qpeeps is "everyone makes money". Pornotube is no different. Actually, not everyone makes money. If you partner with AEBN you have the opportunity. Otherwise, sorry! For example, we won't let "Big Bob's Streaming Pile of VOD" use the money making features of the site.
The goals of the site are:
* Support our cash company partners.
* Support our studio/manufacturer partners
* Support our affiliates
* Generate shitloads of traffic for all of our partners (and ourselves)
* Keep fusionx gainfully employed
BTW - that's not in any specific order
No one else has the balls or the bandwidth to do this on a large scale.
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........Originally posted by AEBN
Surfmastering : a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of miseryComment
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Originally posted by Paul Markham ...
ICQ - 278931233
Giving up is just NOT an optionComment
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